Discussion -- S5E13 -- Blood Ties

[drlloyd11]

posted 02-07-2001 07:02 EST (US)
Another great one cut from the script!
Too bad this didn't make it, I would I have simply begun worshiping Joss openly.

"EXT. WOODS - NIGHT

Willow and Tara are searching the woods at the edge of town. Willow scans the night.

WILLOW
Maybe - maybe that way.

TARA
(gently)
We looked that way. And this way, and
the other way. She's not out here.

Willow sags, knowing she's right.

WILLOW
Where would you go? If you felt lost
and alone? Where would you go?

TARA
(a beat)
To you.

Willow takes Tara in her arms and hugs her tight.

"

[This message has been edited by drlloyd11 (edited February 07, 2001).]

[xita]

posted 02-07-2001 07:17 EST (US)
Ok, I wake up and find out this was a shippers dream episode and then it gets cut. I can't dwell on it. But if all this film is somewhere, someday someone will break in and steal it to share with all the internet peeps. Don't know who though!

Thanks Rayne you rock!

[drlloyd11]

posted 02-07-2001 07:23 EST (US)
Lets get Rayne something nice, a fruit basket or a new car. Something special like that.

[Hugin]

posted 02-07-2001 07:23 EST (US)
So the candle in that scene was merely a proxy for Tara finger? Sigh. Doggone script edits.

-len

[Warduke]

posted 02-07-2001 07:49 EST (US)
Why is it that some of the best W/T stuff is on the cutting room floor...WHY???

Those two scenes would have been awesome, Willow licking Tara's finger...give me a moment while I compose myself and the hugging scene, why did they have to cut those out

[TyRex316]

posted 02-07-2001 07:54 EST (US)
I don't have to much more to add what already has been said....but there is a cameraman out there and he/she loves Amber Benson. I'd like to thank him/her for giving us Amberholics(you know who you are) our monthly dose of eye candy. For that shot is now irreplaceably burned into my memory. And I feel safe knowing that if Amber ever has to bend over, or lean down in a low cut shirt(i.e. The Real Me), you'll be there. This has been a public service announcement brought to you by AA. We now return you to your regular posting....

I thought this was a really great ep. Michelle was T was great last night, that scene with the knife was jaw dropping. Willow/Tara great as usual. And I think Willow forgot in the heat of the moment that she wasn't supposed to be that close to whatever she teleported.

[Dead Dog]

posted 02-07-2001 08:13 EST (US)
SFA said it's OK to do: >> gratuitous body part caps<<

Alright then. I admit that by request a few months ago I cobbled together a handful of Willow behind shots. They're not very good. But they're mysteriously still hidden on my site (no link from main page).

xita said: >> NOtice Willow's apparent position he he<<

I went frame by frame looking for an open hand that would make the suggestion more than obvious, but alas it was not to be.

-- Nick

[Warduke]

posted 02-07-2001 08:21 EST (US)
Nick, the #1 source for Aly Ass Shots

Thanks Nick, very nice pics...very nice

[Dead Dog]

posted 02-07-2001 08:44 EST (US)
BTW, Dawn's shirt says "little miss drama." Really hard to tell even at stop-frame due to focus and contrast.

And um, upon further review, the Tara bendover scene individual frames are far more interesting than I first thought, but I won't post them unless someone wants them. It's about 8 frames. Unfortunately I can't make mpegs -- they never work, I'm still learning.

-- Nick

[darvangi]

posted 02-07-2001 08:59 EST (US)
Yeeesh - I'm glad that scene in Act 3 with W/T in the woods got cut. Too damn syrupy sweet, and we've had about enough of that with those two. Time to set up some dramatic turmoil in their relationship so that they'll be forced to struggle to keep their love afloat. And then of course there'll be the make-up sex.

Thank you Nick for the pics and for telling what Dawn's shirt says - I was going nuts trying to figure that out. Now I need to find out where I can get one.

[judy]

posted 02-07-2001 09:28 EST (US)
Hmmm, can't tell if Darin is being sarcastic or not. Because while I would have LOVED the finger licking scene, I honestly did roll my eyes when I read that other interaction and thanked Joss that it didn't make it onscreen...

*teleports herself far away, out of reach of the irate fists and feet of the kitties*

[Zahir]

posted 02-07-2001 09:45 EST (US)
A few comments...

--Spike was smoking. That alone would have warmed his lungs, and he'd have to breathe to speak.
--Willow was the one who actually activated the spell, so felt the backlash (methinks maybe if she and Tara had spoken together they'd both've felt a lesser reaction).
--Anybody else wanna see Ben "wake up" wearing a slinky red number and pumps?
--I'm assuming Ben and Glory really are the same entity (a side effect of dwelling in this reality). Sooooo...what about the other two Hellgods?
--My hasn't Buffy grown? This is such a difference from all the whining she did for the first three and a half seasons!
--Anya does try, doesn't she? BTW, Buffy was right about everybody acting weird around Dawn once they Knew. Glory didn't notice but Dawn herself did.
--Spike bonding (kinda) with Dawn. Snerk.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Kalita]

posted 02-07-2001 09:47 EST (US)
Okay, quick thoughts...

Actually saw it Tuesday for once... I took a chance on my VCR 'cuz I didn't want to wait till Saturday and be out of the loop. Very glad I did.

On the Willow-collapsing-after-casting: I think it was that she gave the final word that did it. Though Tara was right with it through the chanting and sprinkly-tossing, Willow gave that 'activating' word. They might have done it together, but I think Tara may have been distracted/thrown off by Glory's nasty comments and that, for the first time in the fight, she'd realized that thes two chanting girls were doing something. Wills just had the foresight to remember, 'hey, I'd better teleport her while I can'. My take on it, anyway.

I gotta say, the Ben-into-Glory bit just knocked me flat. I was expecting acknowledgement of a familial relationship (and got it... "I have a sister too..."), but the direct swap was just a Keanu Reeves-style 'whoa' moment.

Oh, and anyone think Glory looks just so cute in Ben's scrubs? Okay, just me...

------------------
Kalita
Maquis operative and fanfic sponge

"Like Tara. She and Willow are both witches. They do spells and stuff which is so much cooler than slaying. I told Mom one time I wish they'd teach me some of the things they do together, and she got really quiet and made me go upstairs. I guess her generation isn't cool with witchcraft."
-Dawn, "Real Me"

[tommo]

posted 02-07-2001 09:57 EST (US)
Ok then, so when I meet Amber at Nocturnal this year, I'll say to her "And can you just bend over so I can take a picture and post it on the kitty board? Gee thanks Miss Benson..."

------------------
You don't have to mad to be Drusilla....but it helps...

[darvangi]

posted 02-07-2001 10:00 EST (US)
Arrrgh! What is it about my writing style that makes me seem sarcastic when I'm not? Sorry, it's just that I have this trouble all the time. I need to take a writing course for posting board language.

Judy: I was being very serious. I would have gone into a sugar coma if they would have left that syrupy scene in. And I am also very serious about needing to see some good drama in the W/T relationship; maybe some jealousy or some kind of force that separates them so they have to struggle to stay together. It would serve to keep the 'ship exciting and also to let them display how much love they have for each other without the corny sentimentality.

[tvsurfer]

posted 02-07-2001 10:02 EST (US)
very disappointed that they keep cutting W&T scenes. I mean we had to suffer tru another Xanman jonesen on the "dawn has a crush on me' thing and more buffy spike bonding (sorry but that is just yuckie)but they cut the W&T hug stuff! why? and why the candle rather than tara frosting tasting? why ?
and why couldn't willow have taking tara's hand when saying "speaking to the converted here" oh and why couldn't tara have given willow a bit of a hug/affection after her gf got knocked down and bloody. so they can't kiss but jeez this is like sanitizing to the max and its cutting the girls air time too

[newmoon07]

posted 02-07-2001 10:07 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by tvsurfer:
I was kind of disappointed tara just touched willows arm/shoulder as opposed to helping her to a seated position and wrapping an arm around her and supporting Willow. a warmer demonstration of concern and affection would have been nice

---

I would have to agree with this to an extent. I feel that a more "realistic" reaction would have been to Willow. I mean, I would be embracing someone that was just a friend. On the other hand--you can see clearly see Tara's love through her immediate expression. The girl wears her emotions on her sleeve. Just in her voice, her eyes...you just KNOW that Willow IS her everything.

[Roxton]

posted 02-07-2001 10:14 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zahir:
Anybody else wanna see Ben "wake up" wearing a slinky red number and pumps?

---

I think I prefer Glory in that outfit compared to Ben, plus I can't see him being thrilled if he woke up in Glory's clothes.

[spuckie]

posted 02-07-2001 10:52 EST (US)
loved this episode! the dawn/adopted subtext was good. The teenager suicidal angst was great. W/T bits that didn't get snipped were fun too.

and did anyone else find it "curious" that Ben did already have a slinky red dress and heels in his hospital locker gotta wonder about that guy. hehe

But my take on the final spell, as other's have said - Willow provided the final energy to cast the spell and teleport glory. So she got the backlash. The way i see it coming down is the W/T angsty bits will be willow's witchy powers going too far. maybe she lands in a coma again? and tara has to worry about losing her forever? Brings back the Restless comments about tara not being able to help willow at some point. Do you think willow is tapping secretly into darker powers for her more powerful spell, but others aren't realizing this? hmm. hard to believe tara or giles wouldn't know. or even anya when she's paying attention...

[This message has been edited by spuckie (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Dr.G]

posted 02-07-2001 11:16 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by tommo:

Ok then, so when I meet Amber at Nocturnal this year, I'll say to her "And can you just bend over so I can take a picture and post it on the kitty board? Gee thanks Miss Benson..."

---

ROFLMAO!!! Ruth, I swear you are trying to kill me aren't you??? Well forget it! I *am* coming to bloody England in june, and not just with the idle hope of seeing Amber. I want to meet Drusilla as well now...

------------------

"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 07, 2001).]

[judy]

posted 02-07-2001 11:51 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by darvangi:

Judy: I was being very serious. I would have gone into a sugar coma if they would have left that syrupy scene in. And I am also very serious about needing to see some good drama in the W/T relationship; maybe some jealousy or some kind of force that separates them so they have to struggle to stay together. It would serve to keep the 'ship exciting and also to let them display how much love they have for each other without the corny sentimentality.

---

Darin, I think I'm in love with you. And I'm not being sarcastic. I completely agree with you. I think some of the corny sentimentality arises from the restrictions they are dealing with. But it just doesn't do anything for me except make me queasy.

While FAMILY did have good conflict and drama, I want something more internal (not an outside force). I know I probably sound unappealingly cynical for this board, but while I do believe in the ecstasy and wonder of love (although I do NOT believe in The One) it's more interesting to also see the flaws, the ugliness, the contradictions. Yes, it's TV. Yes, it's fantasy. But BUFFY has always dove right into the dark and illogical messiness of being human. We've seen it with most of the romantic relationships. As much as I love, respect, and support the writers for taking care not to stigmatize the W/T relationship or rehearse tired old stereotypes about lesbians, sometimes I think the protectiveness stifles creativity and growth. I am going to have a really hard time believing in the relationship if it continues to consist of idealized girl-girl tenderness.

EDITED TO SAY:

I realize that I may have given the impression that I want no sweet tender moments between W/T. I have liked most of them, but I have now reached a plateau.

And Darin, I thought you were being sarcastic because I know my view on this is the distinct minority around these parts. That's fine, but it makes me a bit twitchy. So don't go to any remedial posting board writing workshops, please. I've always liked your posts.

[This message has been edited by judy (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Dead Dog]

posted 02-07-2001 12:03 EST (US)
Well, as I was vidcapping this episode I was going through the bending over thing and thought -- "my better judgment won't allow me to post this on my site."

After seeing the bendover thing (gleefully) pointed out here at least three times, so much for better judgment.

42kb

Rest of vidcaps at http://www.deaddogparty.com/alybt.html
(don't give out URL to spoiler-free folks)

-- Nick

[This message has been edited by Dead Dog (edited February 07, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dead Dog (edited February 07, 2001).]

[wiccie]

posted 02-07-2001 12:06 EST (US)
Loved this ep! I even stayed up extra late to watch the tape as I was in a class until 10pm.

RE: W/T cut scenes - very annoying! There's no justification for the candle/finger-licking good substitution, but I can see why they'd cut the Woodsy scene for time and leave in the X/G banter.

The X/G scene added some humor to what was in essence a very heavy ep (teen angst, cutting, etc.).

While I would have loved the extra syrup of W/T in the woods, I can see that it had no direct bearing on the plot.

RE: Spike breath - one of those occasional, unavoidable production thingies; cold ext. shoot = breath misties. Kinda like the accidental Spike reflection in the glass doors in WTWTA.

RE: Glory and Ben - Nice back Clare...Very nice back;~) Purrrrrr....What was the question?*G*

RE: Tara bending over - keep them screencaps a-coming, Nick! I also saw potential naughtiness in Willow's hand position:~)

RE: Teleportation spell - Putting myself on the stand as an expert witness; if two or more people are casting a spell, they share the energies as the "cone of power" builds. If all/both say speak or perform the catalyst for the spell, the focus of directing the energy is shared. If, in Willow's case, one person activates the magicks they get the brunt of it as the only channel for said energies.

No, I can't teleport gods;~)

Anyone else have the picture of Tara catching Wiilow trying the teleportation spell on Miss Kitty Fantastico?

Would that cause enough dyke drama to constitute a round of make-up sex?*G*

[Utena]

posted 02-07-2001 12:09 EST (US)
well, just finished replaying the ep for my roomies who missed it so now that its sunk in a little more i can somewhat coherently write my thoughts.

it was...ok. not great, not bad. the ep seemed a little off to me, i cant put my finger on why however. also in the first few scenes xander seemed a little off to me, maybe nic was having a bad day. or maybe its me and my imagination. *shrug*

im glad the knights were dealt with again this episode, i was sincerely fearing that the story would gloss over them for a few eps and suddenly bring them back. i enjoyed the minion's ant analogy, the thought of strong, willful men being perceived akin to ants makes me smile =P

best of the ep for me was dawn! i am very, very attatched to her now and throughout the whole episode i sort of forgot about everyone else (i even missed the tara bending over during my first viewing!) and just worried over my little dawnie ;.;

a few satisfying surprises, some tear pulling scenes...all in all a lovely ep which i will dream of tonight ^^ must ponder the ben/glory relationship. and dawn/ben. hrmmm.

[xita]

posted 02-07-2001 12:25 EST (US)
Darin, I have no idea who you could be possibly thinking of. I have no clue. Anyone?? It's not like I would ever fixate on posteriors. Hmm me??? no. Me? no.

Judy, even spoiled this ep rocked the house. It's been a long time since the season long arc actually had some excitement. Joss promised a lot of things and it looks like he's finally coming through. He promised the scoobs would interact more with the big baddies. Delivering now. Also, the theme of family. Judy I agree. Between, Tara/Willow and Buffy/Dawn/Joyce Ben/Glory and the scoobies, the theme is finally being expanded. Also, I agree, the pain of teenagedom often bring this feeling of not belonging, and a questioning of reality. This is another metaphor that is def. working. I have loved Michelle T's work this season, but she was amazing today.

Little comments:

I like your explanation Warduke. Some of my best memories.

Hey I liked Xander's hair. It looked longer for sure. And I like Willow's hair (ducks from the flying objects).

When Willow hugged Buffy goodbye after the party, she looked so much taller. LIke a giant.

What was with all the t-shirts. Dawn's, Little miss what??? Willow's, cowboy cutie? Is she wrapped up in the Madonna fad?

And lastly, I bet you didn't notice, Tara held Willow's finger in their last scene together. Very cute! I loved all the little rubbing there at the end. More would have been better but it's better than when they cut it out of triangle.

Deaddog you did it man! I knew someone would! (adrienne!). It's not your fault, obviously it was set up that way. NOtice Willow's apparent position he he. Yay Nick!

Edited to add, yes that dress they gave her was oogie. Was the the Eiffel Tower on it?

[This message has been edited by xita (edited February 07, 2001).]

[Dead Dog]

posted 02-07-2001 12:27 EST (US)
>>keep them screencaps a-coming<<

Those 8 vidcaps I mentioned are at: http://www.deaddogparty.com/amberbt.html
Thumbnailed page.

-- Nick

[Sabrina Luv]

posted 02-07-2001 12:38 EST (US)
personally i loved the ep. Michelle is great and i totally felt for Dawn. After the spell, whent tara had gone to willow, (though i didnt noticed the fingr holding) tara was rubbing willows back. um..what else did i noice about this ep....oh yeah, the dress that willow and tara gave buffy. did that not look familiar to anyone? i thought it was the dress from restless. now it could have just been the wardrobe dept. giving it as a prop, or does anyone think it might be foreshadowing of a resolution to buffys dream?

------------------
Sabrina Luv

Willow - It's been pointed out to me that that's, you
know, insane. Tara - I said "quirky".

[Dr.G]

posted 02-07-2001 12:45 EST (US)
Yay Dead Dog!!! February ass sweeps coming at ya in 3D yeah!!! Excusez moi, I am losing it a bit, but I can feel myself becoming a netherworld anchor, it is affecting my normally subdued personality a bit...

Just let me be, I will be fine in a post or two...

------------------

"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

[Zelda]

posted 02-07-2001 12:46 EST (US)
I, too, went spoiler free though none of my friends would believe me. They all thought I would have downloaded the episode on Sunday. They only know me as a spoiler ho and would not even give me my well earned 1 episode chip.

When I saw the "previously on" segment, I thought, oh my god, how many storylines are they going to try to tie together here? Fun. And during the whole Ben/Glory thing, we all yelled out -- awww, Fight Club. Kinda cool, kinda fun.

I'm not so big on the Knight dudes but like all the rest of it. Joss has finally giving us the rewards of an intrically thought out little story arc. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. I have my theories...

Other notes, Willow's hair isn't bugging me. Star t-shirt, ick. Xander's hair bugs me more every time I see it. Long and greasy. I'm sorry, I know the Xander fans will hate me but I just don't like it. And I like Xander and love long hair on boys, just not that icky looking long hair.

Oh, and Buffy and Dawn both got in some major cry moments tonight.

Did anyone else think Spike kind of looked older tonight, like he hadn't been sleeping much?

Catch y'all on the flipside.

[Dr.G]

posted 02-07-2001 12:50 EST (US)
Well now, this sucks, did this thread just die...