Discussion – S6E17 – "Normal Again"

[Thanatopsis]

I liked this episode. Spike was jerk, but then again, we knew that. Yay to nervous/jealous Willow and Majick Tara. And of course the pants. It seems Joss is going David Lynch a bit this season. This episode, Dead Things. Interesting. Good choice on the ending. What do you say after your friend/sister tries to kill you? I wonder how it'll be addressed. Poisoned or not, she still tried to kill them with foretought.

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Originally posted by Corporeal Dennis:
Man, have y'all completely forgotten last season already? Like the penultimate episode, "The Weight of the World", where Willow has to go for a walk in Buffy's psyche because Buffy's shit is totally freaked out? That's the breakthrough they're talking about. Not the time she spent in her heaven.

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I don't know. I thought of "The Weight of the World" while I was watching this episode, but it was Buffy suffocating Dawn with a pillow that occured to me. Glad she couldn't go through with it though.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by j_nk:
My theory on the height issue:
I think that it all goes back to the purpose of the Slayer. She was designed to draw the evil things to her, and given the abilities to kill them. Buffy is short and gorgeous, as is Faith, Kendra, and (as far as I can remember) so were the other Slayers we've seen.

If you were a vampire (and you didn't know who they were), who would you choose to attack first - Buffy or Xena?

On other notes, it makes sense that the slayer is short, true, but how do the TPTB know that she won't grow some more. Forgetting the whole gene thing of Dawn being younger and taller. What would have happened if the slayer had a grown spurt when she was 17 or 18. That happens sometimes.

edited to add: I completely agree with you April. That pissed me off. I expected better of the writers.

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Riley: We like the ceiling fan.
Willow: Yes! It's very...you know, kind of old south.
Buffy: But without the unpleasant slavery associations.
-The Replacement

[This message has been edited by Thanatopsis (edited March 13, 2002).]quote:

[anon]

I think the whole question about beig shorter than Dawn was another part of her mind trying to process her role of as the slayer. Of course selecting as a vampire slayer a tiny little girl (who grows up to be a tiny woman) does not make logical sense. But height does not matter in the world of the slayer. When Buffy mentions her height to Dawn, she is caught between those two worlds. She is trying to figure out where she really belongs. That is all I think the comment was trying to suggest.

[Willowhand]

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Originally posted by Epicurus:

Willow with her hair up... yummy.
Tara's pants... yummy.

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Both were very, very yummy.

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[CaptMurdock]

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I actually look forward to these kinds of stories, my friends and I literally rub our hands and go "Oh man, how is this show/episode writer/group of actors going to handle the "body switch" episode or what have you.

How these story framworks are used is the important thing to me, I don't think anyone tries to pretend the setups themselves are original.

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I like how the Who put it: "It's the singer, not the song, that makes the music move along."

Overall score for this episode: 7 out of 10. Taking two points away for the "stuck me in an institution for two weeks and forgot about it" nonsense, and one point for not enough Tara (though she did drop in just at the right time -- yay! A quick scene where she tries to call Willow to explain about the kiss would not have been too much to ask, right?)

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"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"quote:

[xita]

Oh I believe it. I don't think her parents forgot about her being in an institution. I think they forgot about Buffy and the vampires. It's called denial. My mother had to be told I was gay 3 times before it sunk in. Each time it was as if she'd never thought of it. Denial.

And Buffy not talking about it. Again, I totally understand. When you aren't comfortable about something you don't talk about it. Obviously Buffy is frightened of Asylums and losing her mind. I understand.

[Eyes Without A Face]

I'm gonna have to check the episode again. I did not even notice that Tara was wearing pants. Maybe it's because I find skirts so much more attractive on a woman than pants, more feminine + gotta see some leg , or maybe it's because I simply don't notice what people are wearing in general.

If the show was set in the sixties, the female scoobies and vamps would all be wearing minis and micros! However, the slayer would need an Emma Peel suit to fight comfortably. Mmmmmm... Diana Rigg...

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Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

[This message has been edited by Eyes Without A Face (edited March 13, 2002).]

[Epicurus]

If pants are considered masculine, then call me a lover of all things butch.
My those pants were low cut in the back weren't they?

[xita]

I don't judge a woman by what she wears or her appearance, I wouldn't limit my love of women by such superficial things.

[tommo]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
I don't judge a woman by what she wears or her appearance, I wouldn't limit my love of women by such superficial things.

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Me either xita, but you know, Tara's posterior is just another reason why I adore her so much.

Interesting theories spinning around here. I think what is starting to become most clear is Buffy's desire to return to what she considers "safe". This isn't the first time she's wanted to go back to her family and be looked after by her mother and father. I think that whole scenario started in Weight of the World. And it worries me that Buffy's psyche is clearly so powerful that it constantly throws up her mother as the only person who can really get through to her.

The speech that Joyce delivered to Buffy was heartbreaking, because Joyce was the only person who ever spoke to Buffy that way. And I think possibly only now we're starting to see Buffy's mental breakdown in response to the loss of her mother and the responsibilities heaped on her since then.

Grief is a powerful thing. And it looks like Buffy's suffering has been a long time coming.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...quote:

[Grimaldi]

This was an interesting episode. A little confused if the mental institution is where they are saying that Buffy went after jumping through the portal or if it is like I think it is and the demons poison was what was creating the alt reality. I would have liked to hear if any of the Scoobies existed in the institution universe and that's why Buffy created them in the Sunnydale reality.

I wish I hadn't missed the opening part with Willow practicing her lines to say to Tara (should never have checked the score of the Laker game). Now I have to suffer for who knows how long just to see it (thanks for posting the link to the pics, at least that makes the pain go away a little). After seeing the pants that Tara was wearing and that skirt that Willow was wearing I have just got to say "nice ass".

[Dr.G]

To personally prefer a woman in a skirt is one thing, to say it is more feminine is *cough*crap*cough*. But that is another discussion entirely.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 13, 2002).]

[tommo]

The only advantage about a woman wearing a skirt is easy access. Nuff said.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[xita]

Grimaldi, Liz posted some links for clips to download over at the spoiler thread

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Here are clips. Enjoy! http://www.buffyverse.de/article.php?sid=560
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More clips are here. http://www.slayerweb.com/Guide/b617_review.php4

Drag and drop the links

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You can download nervous Willow!

And about aesthetics, it isn't just that, it is pure ignorance to call pants less feminine.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 13, 2002).]quote:

[Dr.G]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
The only advantage about a woman wearing a skirt is easy access. Nuff said.

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Oh yeah baby, and it helps that Tara prefers sitting in that yoga position , though the pants would work better for the grinding, especially these pants. Yum.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 13, 2002).]quote:

[Incarnadine]

It all depends on both the person and the pants. Some look good in pants others don't. Aly in those RMA awards pics is a great example of looking good in pants, especially those rear shots that show them cut low enough to clearly see her kanji tattoo (still wondering if maybe there's yet another one perhaps a bit lower down).

[EvilAnya]

Hey! What was Diego smokin' when he penned this one? Whoo-ey, I may need a Special Dr.G Recipe Dutch Brownie to understand it...
haha, trust me, doesn't help, just makes it about ten times more confusing, not that i... bah. who am i kidding?

What i loved in this ep- Tara's pants, first thing i noticed, hello hot. On the subject of fashion, loved Willow's hat in the graveyard scene, this indeed is a new era where Willow wears hats that actually flatter her. Loved Xander's first scene, hell he's pathetic, but he was so honest "I really miss her". I felt for him, he knew he screwed up and it hurt like hell.

I loved how to be sane in one world Buffy had to be insane in the other. Verrrrry interesting. Also caught the line about her being lucid "last summer" I really wonder where they're going with this, i think instead of just wracking my brain about what's going to happen I'm just going to go with the flow. More Dutch brownies please

On a personal note, i found the mental hospital scenes upsetting, especially the meds scenes, just yeahhh, went through a rough time a few years ago and checked in for awhile (errr, the parents did that) but yeah, not a pleasant experience, they pump you full of tranqs and expect you to act like you're ok? Very frustrating. I felt like i knew exactly was feeling and it made the episode more powerful because of it.

[tommo]

Can I just say that you won't find a more feminine woman than Tara, with her curves and her beauty? She's so classical. Yeah, even wearing so called masculine pants. Bah. Silly.

Clothes do not maketh the man. Or woman.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[AutumnT]

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Originally posted by tommo:
Clothes do not maketh the man. Or woman.

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What about a lack of clothes?

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

[Dr.G]

Oh heh heh Autumn, come with me to the US Gov attempts to define gender thread and we can argue why lack of clothes does not make the man or woman either.

[tommo]

Autumn, a lack of clothes on either Willow or Tara, or, god help me, both usually ends in that thread of mine over on pens. Heh.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[christa monsta]

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Originally posted by invisigoth:
Oh, yeah back to the point. Did anyone else think of Andrea Yates while watching this episode?

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actually, yeah. of course, i live in houston - death city (argh). but i thought it was interesting to think, "hey - this is maybe what it actually FEELS like to be schizophrenic!" the inability to differentiate realities, morals, etc. i'm not saying anything about the yates case, as i wasn't in the jury (duh), but in a small way it helped me understand. too bad there's no magical antidote for schizophrenia.

this episode was so so awesome. i shall always have faith in joss. i think it responds well to that scathing review of Hell's Bells in EW last week. the writers have now past up the audience...

i miss anya.

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"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."quote:

[Ange]

Oh yeah, i liked the pants too. And i was very aggree with Buffy, on one thing:

Once you're fallen for Willow, you stay fallen!!

Ange.

[Hugin]

As long as Amber is as yummy as she is, and they hugged her curves the way those pants did last night, she could wear large cement mixers on her lower body and still be sexy and feminine. IMO.

Besides, there's a whole world of sexiness not particularly centered on femininity (in terms of clothing, hair, makeup, socialization, etc) anyway. Corky. Ridiculously sexy, yes. Skirts? Ever? Highly doubt it.

-len

[This message has been edited by Hugin (edited March 13, 2002).]

[tommo]

Mmm, Tara shaped cement mixers...*swoon*

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[AutumnT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr.G:
Oh heh heh Autumn, come with me to the US Gov attempts to define gender thread and we can argue why lack of clothes does not make the man or woman either.

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Oh no, no arguments from me. I didn't mean to put my foot in anything let alone my mouth. Just wanted to talk about lack of clothes.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

[Dr.G]

Oh I know Autumn, hence the grinning smilie and not the pissed off smilie.
I'm sorry dear, continue with the clothlessness. After the great boob and ass work we've been getting that should be next. Marti said she wants to push the boundaries, well push it I say, as long as she does not push em over a cliff.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 13, 2002).]

[wiccie]

Yes, it was obviously "Pants Day" for W&T; how cute that they've been apart but are still "in sync" with each other?

Also, we got the best of both hair-worlds tonight, up, down...All around. The only thing that could top tonight's hairstyles would be "bed head" from...Well, y'know. *G*

Great Googly Moogly! This is my 666th post! Wow, that "Evil for Dummies" book really paid off!

OK, I am now officially claiming status as THE BIG BAD for the rest of this season.

Carry on, foolish mortals...BWaaahaaahaaaaa!

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 13, 2002).]

[Glory-p3-mrs]

i return bearing more thoughts:

on which one was a reality:
my friends and i disscussed this and came up with two conclusions. ok, yea, one makes no sense but the second could actually work. both are reasons why sunnydale must be the actual reality

1) if buffy imagined the whole thing then Angel would not have his own spin-off

i thought it was funny...

2) Take 'Tabula Rasa'
how could she have imagined losing her freakin' mind? literally, not in the sense of being crazy, but she imagined (if the MI is real) that she had her mind earased and was somebody else
and also, what about all those scenes where buffy is absent?
could she imagine stuff like 'flamey candle scenes'?
no.

On Tara (oohh...)
aside from the pants-
when Tara was in the basement, i liked that shirt it was so cute
(reads what she just said)
...uh-oh...

Definite issue with the continuity w/ Joyce not suspecting
thats just not right. Can you honestly deny something that much?

and plus-
Shouldn’t the Watcher's Council have known about the institutionaliazing anyway? They are awfully resourcefull and such. shes their slayer - do they have anything else to do other than worry about slayers and their being all stable?

on the rift in the nerds:
Jonathan- I so knew it
after seeing the epp about buffy hearing thoughts i just knew Jonathan couldn't stay bad - hes too good and cute!
i think he'll end up helping the scoobs

Darvangi: 12 monkeys is a creepy ass movie and I still don’t get it
(pink bunny slippers!)

I don't get the part about Willow doing Dawn's chores, either
could somebody clear that up?

it would suck for hank/joyce to her all the stuff that happened in sunnydale
ie divorce, leaving- Hank, death- Joyce

last-
where was the institution?

it looked like the college or the actual sunnydale hospital or *some place* familar

i jump on the 'give us actual kisses and gay love' bandwagon

[Lanfear]

I think it's about Dawns rather declining curve when it comes to beeing responsible and all that. Stealing, not doing here chores (wich willow covers by doing them for her) and so on.

[Puff]

Hey thanks for the screencaps, I'm pretty sure you can see Aly's tatoo in 124

I really liked last nights episode, I thought Willow was brilliant even though I missed the Gay love part in Willow's practice talk.

Tara in pants *sigh*

Willow in short denim skirt *sigh*

SMG was wonderful in this episode, really amazing. I laughed when she said that she should be taller than Dawn though. And the end with her and Joyce was touching.

How many weeks do we have to wait for the new episode?

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