General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 8

[ShagBrolly]

De-lurking amidst all the angst.
Okay, thinking of the conflicting spoilers, what if Tara and Anya BOTH die? But Anya is the one who dies "saving a loved one" (Xander of course), and in saving him makes a wish herself which kills her, and saves the others?
Clutching at straws maybe, but I can hope.

[xita]

Petrie's words from season 4:

"Willow and Tara are going to have a good, happy, satisfying relationship," Petrie says. "That's something that we're more acutely aware of and we definitely don't want to touch on 'being a lesbian is bad.' We've all seen shows where if you have any kind of gay tendencies, you must be killed or made to suffer for no other reason other than you're gay. We're hyper aware of that, so we're more predisposed to have things work out for Willow and Tara.

I think it shows their awareness of the issues.

Though I do agree that letters etc. are premature. We have to let this play itself out. We don't know the whole story.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 09, 2002).]

[tommo]

ROFLMAO.

Oh yes. They're aware alright. Like that guy with the dark glasses and the dog and the white stick. They're seeing the issues.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[jessan15]

Would anyone like to explain to me why all the spoilers and interviews seem to be going back and forth?

Emma makes references to Amber's situation.

Amber laughs and says not Xander. (The other half of Xander is Anya in my world.)

Wanda's spoiler's...go back and forth.

I'm so clueless...but isn't it obvious someone's spouting out the wrong stuff? The question is...who? That's means there's hope...right?

Another question...has episode 20 completed filming yet?

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Love will find a way.

[Perfume V]

What I object to is the fact that it's so meaningless. I wish Tara had died at the hands of Glory now. At least that would have been an honourable death, protecting her friends, rather than this meaningless killing.

Jenny also led a blameless life, but at least I could understand why she died. I don't know what ME is playing at here.

[Warduke]

About what xita posted...

If this does happen, they knew exactly what they were doing and that is unforgivable.

[IcicleDyke]

I use the term homo to apply to myself all the time, no disrespect was meant. Tara has never been evil, I was reffering to Willow as the BB, that her capacity for darkness has nothing to do with her sexuality.

Yes, Larry was killed, but so were Joyce and Jenny and other characters who weren't gay. When was Joyce ever evil? never, she didn't deserve to die, Jenny hid important info from the Scooby gang but she didn't deserve to die either. I didn't get the impression that Jenny's death was "punishment for her being decietful" and I don't see Tara dying as being a consequence of being a lesbian.

I don't mean the term homophobia is sacred, i mean that just because something bad happens to a gay person it isn't always a result of homophobia and calling it such when it isn;t is misleading.

I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with the dead lesbian cliche, all i know of that is what happened with kerri and her gf on ER and i thought that was bullshit on the writers part, not wanting to actually deal with two women in a relationship, maybe i'll just need to see what happens on Buffy to see what impression i get.

Can you tell me about other instances of this cliche? I'm not trying to be an asshole, i just don't know.

[Willowlicious]

quote:

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Originally posted by Destiny:
I like the Buffy/Spike pairing, and I've been hearing rumblings about Spike getting staked, but if that happens, I'm not going to stop watching, cause there are way to many other things I like about the show.

I hope that once the emotional response to the spoiler calms down, that you will agree.
{HUGS}

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Nope. See, for me it's not a mere case of a favorite character dying. It's that the storyline being presented is wantonly CRUEL. It murders a COMPLETE innocent on a show that has not traditionally killed innocents and also destroys the very soul of another beloved character. This is not just about death. BtVS did death last year with Joyce and Buffy. That was sad, but it was not heartless. This is heartless and I cannot stand behind a show that cares so little for its characters and the fans who love those characters. If BtVS had not already immersed the characters in death and pain for an entire year and then decided to kill Tara in a believable way that would leave some hope for Willow even through her pain, I would still watch. But they don't need to kill anyone else. They've done it. This is mean and it leaves Willow without hope. I love Willow because they made me love her. They are crazy if they think I'm going to watch BtVS and watch her suffer.

Which, again, leads me to believe they won't leave it this way.

And, BTW, killing Tara IS homophobic.

Amyquote:

[aladdin]

I just can't believe that. No, this can't be possible! I read Lisa's thread and then I got here and now I feel like I want to hit something, preferably Joss, or just cry. I never, never thought they would do that to both the characters and the audience. That's my and our worst nightmare coming true...I can't believe it. As it was said before..they're going to destroy the only positive lesbian relationship on television and drag it in the dirt with that. Why? Willow going evil..we've seen her on HB and after that, how can any stupid writer make her "The Big Bad"?

If these spoilers are true, I'm gonna throw away my tapes and just forget about this TV show and give up my hope that there will ever be a normal lesbian relationship portrayed on television where no one dies, leaves or turns evil.

I'm through.

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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux.

[Epicurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Destiny:
It isn't surprising to me that she's getting killed off, since no relationship in the Buffyverse ever ends well or lasts, whether gay or otherwise. Not one.
Giles lost Jenny. Buffy lost Angel (multiple times), Riley and has given up Spike, Xander lost Cordy and now Anya, Spike lost Dru, and now Buffy, Cordy lost Xander, Doyle, and Groo. Willow lost Xander, Oz and now Tara.

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Ah well those are good excuses! or not.
Angel, Spike, Anya, Dru, Buffy, Cordy, Xander, Doyle and Oz are all ALIVE. Tara will not be. With that attitude why the hell should we ever care about a relationship again.

The only thing that is pissing me off more today then the Tara news is unregistered posters jumping on a W/T fan board and telling us how to feel and react. quote:

[Katharyn]

quote:

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Originally posted by wiccie:
Keep the hope, and try taking slow, calming breaths until the end of the season. I know in the flurry people probably haven't read my posts, but here's trying...Again...To help people chill out.

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You got my vote Wiccie... And now I slope off to bed and know that I will not sleep turning theory after theory over in my mind, but above all I am convinced that we do not know everything.

Tara might die. I pray she doesn't but this spoiler just doesn't work alone and in isolation. It might well be totally accurate as far as it goes, but as Michele said she has no idea about 21 & 22. There is more going on... those 2 more eps for a start - indeed possibily the greater part of ep 20, depending at what point in the ep this is supposed to happen. No way, no how is Joss going to go with that plot line as it appears to us now for all the reasons that everyone has pointed out. I accept that he might ruthlessly kill characters, including Tara - but not that he does it hypocritically for the reasons apparent in the spoilers. He might be isolated from the show this year... but sorry there is no way that is the whole story.

If it is then he hasn't got half the savvy that I always credited him with.

Off to bed and sleepless night... Guess what I am doing first thing in the morning... see you then kittens.

Katharyn

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You hear that baby?quote:

[IcicleDyke]

I'm sorry if anyone feels like I'm trying to tell them how to feel. I just felt like as a member of the queer community I could voice my opinion that I don't feel like this is an instance of homophobia. I don't go to messageboards much because i have a hard time expressing myself. I just wanted to let people know that not the entire queer community thinks this is homophobic.

[tommo]

Okay, but you must at least understand that this queer community (and I include everyone in that description) thinks it's homophobic.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[This message has been edited by tommo (edited March 09, 2002).]

[Kittie17]

I never post here.. but i always read the spoilers. I'm just... i don't understand what's happening. If those spoilers are true then... no no there's no way i can understand this. I'm crying right now. I'm so sad... it's like nothing make sense. Willow and Tara are also my light at the end of the tunnel.. and now this? My poor Tara I'm so sad.. so hurt. It's so stupid kill her, maybe it's the fate of all characters: being unhappy. I don't know. I think all that matters is that they love each other.
I love you all!
Lets just hope everything gets better, that this is isn't true...
*big hugs*

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Todo lo que necesitamos es sentido comun y eso no puede ser enseñado

[Nessie]

I would just like to say a few things. If this does happen, it wil take away my faith in the writers on the show. I always loved the way buffy was written, because the writing was always creative and fresh and often very orginial. While the tara death rumors were floating around this season I always though to myself, nah, that will never happen, Joss and co., are too good to fall for that age-old lesbian death cliche. I really hope this isnt true and the dont fall into that trap. Its such a boring, lame cliche. Even if they dont intend it to be that way, if the feel they are treating them like any other character on the fact remains, we've seen this all before. Lesbians are happy, lesbian dies. Or lesbian gets sick and dies. Or lesbian dies tragically in freak accident. So Lame!!! I cant believe buffy would fall for such a lame storyline.

And its lame either way you look at it. Willow walking in to find her lover dead after they got back together even if they werent lesbians it would be a cliche. And its been done. done to death. On buffy, as well, I might add...remember ms. calendar anyone? Its really corny too. Really really cheesy...I would like to point that out. And why? Because killing Tara doesnt even resolve any of the storylines they've been pushing all season. IF she does die, the only excuse for it is bad writing. I'm sorry to say that because I love the show, but that's just bad writing. Ineffective, contrived, bad writing. Think about it, ever character has something that would make their death make sense.
Buffy: the slayer.
Willow: the magic.
Spike: being a vampire, they've toyed with the idea of staking him before.
Anya: teh demon thing.
Xander: Anya's demon thing.
Dawn: the negligence on the part of buff and everyone, its hurt her before.

Tara has nothing. Her death is senseless. Its not somethign they've been building up to. In fact, the only thing that would make soem sense, is if willow went beserk with magic again and either killed her or accidentally killed her, put her in harms way. But this? This is BS. Tts killing someone off merely for the sake of killing them off, but not as a major climax to the show's main story arc. And while people do die senselessly in reality, in fiction in order for a death to be good and effecting it shouldn't just come out of left field. Like last year's season end, for example, buffy's death was sad, but beautiful in way and very well done. Why? because it was well-written. not rushed. not contrived. I would think any character on the show deserves a more satisfying death than this IF in fact it does happen. I'm still hoping that the good writing i've seen from the show in the past will continue and this spoiler was sent out by the PTB to throw us all off. Anyway, thanks to angelx for posting. If it does happen, I can deal with it more if I know it in advance.

[Destiny]

Well guess I should apologize then. I didn't realize that people who are not just W/T fans couldn't come on and offer a bit of sympathy. I may not be a devoted W/T shipper, but I do like the characters and enjoy talking about them, their story arcs, etc.....And I don't like the idea that one is going to die, and the other go evil, but in being honest, it's along the lines I expected. Just because of the track run of relationships on BtVS.
I wasn't trying to tell you how to behave, or what to post, but I did say that I didn't think writer bashing is a productive way to handle your unhappiness. Better to just support each other and keep the faith that perhaps this spoiler is a misdirection put out there by the writers intentionally.

I may not be a frequent poster on this board, but I do come here and read the interesting things you all have to say, and I have indeed posted a few times...I just can't remember my freakin' password so I show up unregistered.

Didn't mean to bust your chops with my post, just tried to offer another option. Wait and see what happens.

[jessan15]

Epicurus I am so with you.

Unregistered users trying to justify Tara being killed off in a ridiculous fashion...

SO NOT HELPING!!

As for the homophobia debate/comments whatever...need I remind...life has a tendency to immitate art. And vice versa. Either angle you look at it from, it represents homophobia.

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Love will find a way.

[xita]

Destiny, we appreciate your sentiments, but trust me we can take care of ourselves. People may need to vent and as long as it isn't out of line, it's healthy. The mods are moderating this thread and bashing has never been allowed, and ultimately you won't see the leadership of the board advocating that, which you might know if you frequented the board.

[The Partyman]

BBOvenGuy A quick objective question for you...

A few mentions of you posted at the Cross and Stake regarding Spike spoilage, here is one, from OneTwoMany:

quote:

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...But the lack of Spike spoilage from Angel_X (never a good sign) and th

IP: Logged

Karzia
Floating Rose


Posts: 32
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 10, 2002 22:36               

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Sorry bout the duplicat post folks, this thread is so active that I am timing out on my responses, and my server is automaticly resending them, I will just lurk a while till the trafic slows.

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Ad astea per asta

New thread here

[Note: This message has been edited by xita]

IP: Logged

quote:IP: LoggedKarziaFloating Rose


Posts: 32
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 10, 2002 22:36               

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Sorry bout the duplicat post folks, this thread is so active that I am timing out on my responses, and my server is automaticly resending them, I will just lurk a while till the trafic slows.

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Ad astea per asta

New thread here

[Note: This message has been edited by xita]

IP: Logged

posted March 10, 2002 22:36                Sorry bout the duplicat post folks, this thread is so active that I am timing out on my responses, and my server is automaticly resending them, I will just lurk a while till the trafic slows.

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Ad astea per asta

New thread here

[Note: This message has been edited by xita]

[Hush]

It's all a big non sense, I can't understand why they would kill Tara and turn Willow evil. It goes against all the things Joss said. I usually freak about this kind of spoilers but the more I think about this one the more I can't believe it. AngelX thanks for the information and your support but I really hope you are wrong.

And I want a seat on the DenialBus too!!

[BBOvenGuy]

I prefer to think of it as the Skepticism Bus myself.

[The Partyman]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
I was quoting Willowfan, yes.

That's not to say it couldn't have come from me, though. There's Spike stuff I've heard that I haven't seen mentioned in a spoiler thread yet. I imagine it'll come around sooner or later.

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Thanks.
Hey, Good Luck with your location snooping!

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xxx

The Partyman

[This message has been edited by The Partyman (edited March 09, 2002).]quote:

[jessan15]

I don't care what the bus is called...

JUST SAVE ME A SEAT!!

With many pit stops to feed my worried-induced nicotine fits.

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Love will find a way.

[Tolley]

I'm with Bob on this one, the Skepticism Bus. I refuse to truly believe these spoilers until the wildfeed. It's just too damn hard to accept. But thank you Michelle for breaking the news to us, we always appreciate what you have to bring the table.

[FrenchRose]

Bob's right, maybe we should call it the ScullyBus or something...

[sam7777]

Though the article is from last year, it shows how marti and Joss are willing to spread false rumors to track poiler leaks.

From: http://www.darkslay.co.uk/cgi-bin/slayn ... 8844,89132,

quote:

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Joss Whedon and Marti Noxon have admitted they have been spreading false Buffy and Angel spoilers for a while now. "That's the fun part," Buffy executive producer Martin Noxon said in an interview. "Because we got sort of savvy, ... and also we're trying to track down where the genuine leaks were, so there's stuff out there that's pure hokum."

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quote:

[SeanGaffney]

I agree with you there, BBOven. My reaction so far has been:

1) I don't believe it - misinformation time.
2) OK, then there's something else in the ep or the eps that follow it that we're missing.
3) If both those are wrong, then pigs are flapping around through the sky.

Join the skepticism bus today! It has pie!

--SG
--who has no idea why he's so hyped on pie today...

[Kendahl897]

And to think that I was going to quit smoking today. Yeah, right...I have four things that give me a little hope..1-I've heard nothing about Amber wanting to leave the show, and yes , she bought a house 2-it doesn't fit with what Joss and the writers have said about Willow/Tara and old cliches 3-Emma Caufield said in an interview that she thought people would like where this season ended and finally- like BBQGuy, I believe that if this does happen in ep20, it can still be undone in either 21 or 22.
Oh, I guess I have a 5th one too. Wanda said that whoever died would die sacrificing herself for the one she loved, not accidently shot in their bedroom. I just think this fits better with Anya's character.
But if it does happen, just like with ER, I'll never watch the show again.........

[jessan15]

Hokum...one vote for hokum!

*Jumps up and down waving hand in the air*

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Love will find a way.

[elusio]

I don't wish to sound insensitive, because believe me I am a Tara fan, but I find many opinions being voiced here to be somewhat exaggerated.

Yes, ME is ending a relationship. Yes, it was a homosexual relationship. It was also the happiest and one of the most long enduring relationships ever on the show. Xander and Anya is now over... Buffy and Angel, over in pain. Buffy and Riley, pain. Xander/Cordelia, ended in pain. Willow/Oz. Wesley/Virgina. Cordelia/Doyle. Xander/Willow. I could go on?

BtVS has always been a show that, despite the comedy, thrives on anguish, angst, pain...

If the spoilers are to be believed, the end of Willow and Tara's relationship will be brought upon them by outside forces, once they have reconciled. Reconciliation has never happened in the buffyverse (at least not as far back as I can remember).

Tara is being killed off, yes. But there must be reasons for it. Dramatic ending to the season, sure... maybe Amber wanted to do other things. I am sorry to see it happen. I'm not going to say I'm not. I will cry I'm sure.

But please do not see this as a condemnation by ME of all gay relationships. Willow and Tara have seemed, to me, to have the sweetest, happiest and long lasting relationship of the lot...

I don't want to see Tara killed. Nor do I want to see the character I most empathise with turning evil... But Buffy is like that. Jenny died, for what? Yes, she did betray Buffy, but she didn't deserve to die. Couples break up, characters die, the plot goes all haywire (I myself have been very disappointed with this season. Not because it hasn't gone where I want it to go, but more because it hasn't grabbed me by the throat, hasn't taken me on the journey it used to. But this isn't a thread to discuss that). Shit happens. Jenny, Joyce, Larry... innocents. I wouldn't say Joyce dying was anti-mom. It's part of the story. It's the story Joss is telling.

This is only my opinion though.
I can understand your anger, I can understand how upset you are. I can also see why a lot of you would see this as a betrayal to the community...

But I don't personally don't see it as a condemnation of the Willow/Tara relationship... just a very, very sad twist to a very twisted series.

oh, and Joss is evil.
But we all knew that.

elusio
participant in the Joss Toaster Project

P.S. if you have issues with my post, tell me. I really don't want to offend anybody.

P.P.S. It's very late where I live. I'm heading to bed, but will reply to all posts to me when I get up. Am glad to see that the answers I'm getting are just as well thought out and reasonable as I'd come to expect from this place... being a fulltime lurker 'n all

[This message has been edited by elusio (edited March 09, 2002).]