The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

by **tommo** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 1:45 am

quote:
Originally posted by shellybean:
and why did Will and Tara get the extra ugly sleeves? is it because they were Xander's 'best men'? I thought that was kind of cute.

I think it's because Willow was Best Man and Tara was Maid of Honor. They matched. That's supposed to happen. Then they step in if the wedding doesn't go ahead and...oh, the drama!

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.quote:

by **Miss Kitty** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:19 am

Sniff... I had a box of kleenex next to me before the episode even started! The line that killed me the most was when Anya said, "I get to see my best friend everyday for the rest of my life!" My heart was breaking when I saw how upset Anya was. Like so many others have said, Emma did a wonderful job tonight!

It was so nice to see Willow and Tara sharing sweet looks and flirting with each other.

I know this isn't a B/S board, but I have to say that I really want them to get back together. I know a lot of people didn't like them together and hated the sex scenes, but I thought they were hot together!

by **SeanGaffney** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:39 am

Still trying to recover from the emotional gut-wrenching that was this episode...

First off, the Willow/Tara interaction was just too cute. I think all the wedding-ey vibes were getting to the two of them, as they both realized, "Hey! My ex-lover is still GORGEOUS! Wheee!" Long, long looks, rescue, and yes, the nipple brushing. From a W/T standpoint, this was a big fun deal.

The Buffy and Spike interaction was excellent, and quite mature for them both. I'm hoping that the two of them can work through this and end up as not-a-couple friends. (Not getting into the whole 'still evil' debate tonight...)

Dawn was cute, especially talking with the demon about nasty families. And yes, I know demons should be evil, but dangit, I still want more Clem. The bit about commedia dell'arte had me on the floor!

Poor Buffy... having tried and failed to provide some sort of happiness for herself, she can't even find it secondhand through her friends now. I hope she doesn't end up[ thinking 'everyone near me suffers', or somesuch...

Xander's family. Well, we knew about them, of course, through what Xander said and didn't say, but ye gods, they were just as awful as I imagined. They weren't brutal abusers or anything... just people who can't be happy, and take out their unhappiness on others. I'm glad we hadn't really seen them till now, as their presence helped underscore why Xander did what he did (not that I agree with what he did).

Poor Xander... and at the same time, you big stupidhead! He certainly got to see his worst nightmare come true... trapped in a loveless marriage, just like his parents, he goes one step further, turning into Bernice Summerfield from Left-Handed Hummingbird. (Speaking of which, interesting juxtaposing of Xander killing Anya with the frying pan, and Xander later killing the demon with that pillar).

And lastly, Anya, with Emma Caulfield's acting triumph. Seeing her so happy, then having it crumble around her in utter desolation... this hurt. There are so many Anya moments in this I can't even begin. The vows getting progressively less blunt and more sweet... the bit about marrying her best friend... Anya not even being able to remember this guy she cursed... her tears as she realized how little it took to get Xander to run off...

And the final scene. I wonder if D'Hoffryn can only give the vengeance demon job to scorned women? Which is why Anya had no luck with his in Season 4... she wasn't this far down. I really wonder what she'll do. If she manages to refuse, without external or extenuating circumstances, it'll be the biggest step towards being human she's taken. Living with love is easy... living with pain and heartbreak, simply because you don't want to lose the feelings of love you had... that's much harder.

God, I've written a lot. I loved this episode, painful as it seemed. Go Emma! Go Nicholas!

Oh and, um, boob. There. ^_-

--SG

[This message has been edited by SeanGaffney (edited March 06, 2002).]

by **buffelina** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 6:58 am

Omigod! The eye contact was so sweet ... and subtly erotic ... their feelings for each each other were conveyed beautifully without a spoken word ... Ah! The beauty of the eyes! Sometimes eyes and body language speak volumes ...

by **Scout** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:25 am

quote:
Originally posted by Ari:
During the cute scene where they were dressing Anya, the look on Tara's face when she was talking about being able to trust him with her heart just about broke my heart, though. There was still a lot of hurt and uncertainty in that look.

For some reason that look just floored me and after I saw it I had a hard time concentrating on the rest of the show because my mind kept coming back to it. I know it shouldn't surprise me that Tara is still hurt by what Will did because that will be with her for a long while, but seeing that pain in her eyes just reminded me of all that has happened between them.

I can't explain why, but I really need to hear Willow tell Tara she's sorry for violating her mind. If they get back together without Willow saying that she realizes she was wrong and that she's sorry for what she did, I will be disappointed because I really think it's a conversation that needs to be shown before the end of the season. Seeing Tara's look tonight just made me want to see that scene even more.

But enough of that topic. Now onto happier news - BOOBAGE! I am proud to say that I noticed it the first time around and I'm very thankful that screencaps were made to capture the wonderful moment.

And I also found it rather meaningful that Will was on her knees by Tara during the vows. I decided then that the reason Willow wasn't in a tux last night was because Joss is saving that outfit for the girls' commitment ceremony. Hey, a girl can dream!

quote:

by **Willowlicious** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:07 am

quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
For some reason that look just floored me...seeing that pain in her eyes just reminded me of all that has happened between them.
I can't explain why, but I really need to hear Willow tell Tara she's sorry for violating her mind. If they get back together without Willow saying that she realizes she was wrong and that she's sorry for what she did, I will be disappointed because I really think it's a conversation that needs to be shown before the end of the season.

That look was excellent, subtle work on Amber's part. I don't think you have to worry about Tara getting a heartfelt, sincere apology. The writers created a very specific reason for W/T's break up. I think they will create a very specific apology, too. Remember, Willow and Tara haven't had a discussion about their future (or their past) yet. Everything to this point has been about Willow changing her ways (and Tara witnessing it) and both W/T realizing that there is still wild love and attraction between them. Those two things create the foundation for THE conversation. You know, the one where you discuss and apologize for past mistakes and, based on how that goes, discuss your future together. It's a juicy scene to write and act and I don't think anyone has the intention of skipping over it just to get the make-up sex (tempting as that may be). I am positive Willow will apologize tearfully and convincingly. Tara deserves it and needs to hear it and the writers know it.

EDITED TO ADD: Plus, I think Willow is well aware of what she did wrong and is truly sorry. I think she's dying for the chance to grovel. Up to this point, she's been getting her act together and sussing out whether Tara will speak to her, will see her, etc. She's been treading carefully. Believe me, you don't want to end up sobbing outside someone's door, begging for them to let you in so you can sob some more. That makes it all about you. I think Willow wants to wait until she can make it all about Tara. She wouldn't dream of not apologizing. I'm sure she's got it all planned in her busy little head. No worries.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 06, 2002).]quote:

by **xita** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:32 am

I loved the look on Willow's face when she asked Tara if she could help her with the dress. She's just so in love and so whipped. Are they back together yet? Cause I can't stand it and I know they can't either.

Sad for Anya and I really can't say anything more about Xander, cause it won't be nice

Also noticed the line before the bs scene. "Sometimes, 2 people, all they bring each other is pain."

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 06, 2002).]

by **Eyes Without A Face** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:20 am

"Sometimes, 2 people, all they bring each other is pain."

That is not unlike "You always hurt the one you love".

------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

by **Zahir** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:26 am

On Demons: Methinks most demons Buffy deals with are the dangerous kind because...well, those're the ones causing problems. Plus the Hellmouth tends to attract same. But its long been established that some demons are little more than funny-looking people.

One of the things that initially turned me off from watching BtVS was this premise that vampires are simply demons. Having them be simply evil 'cause they're evil has always struck me as bad writing. Joss, on the other hand, did something really interesting by (among other things) making the demons into believable characters with pretty much the full range of possible behavior.

In fact, that's a major reason that Buffy and the others stood up for Tara in "Family" even when they thought she was half-demon!

And like many of you, I personally eagerly await Tara & Willow's wedding. Willow in a tux also makes a very...scenic...image. Yum.

Perhaps, it'll be a double wedding, for I believe Xander and Anya will find each other again as Willow and Tara will.

I believe. I hope. And that's what keeps most of us going, isn't it?

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

by **KJ_Chicago** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:26 am

I agree - Xander disappointed me at the end and I felt so bad for Anya; she's really become human.

The W/T interaction was great. There is no way anyone could deny that these two are still in love with each other. And, AH and AB played the scene out so well while they were helping Anya with her dress. These two are destined to have "the talk" and to reconcile.

Lots of humor in this episode. Dawn always "lets the cat out of the bag" - doesn't she??

by **Web Warlock** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:44 am

Ok. That was something else.

Random thoughts first.
- Yet another reminder why I am *SO* glad I ran away to Jamaica to get married. No family, no friends, just me and my wife.
- I actually liked the B/S interactions tonight. Things might be looking up for Buffy (that is till I saw next week's preview...), but Sarah was quite funny this episode. A sort of dry humor. Which is nice, because next week looks about as funny as a root canal.
- The Willow/Xander interaction. Great. I am so glad that she was his best man. My wife was a "groomsman" in one our friends wedding. I thought that was nice. Also glad they can talk about how much they do love each other without compromise. I mean they have known each other since they were what, fetuses? Xander and Willow are brother and sister fer’crying out loud.
- Loved the “because they are radioactive” line.
- I liked the Dawn/Teen Demon interaction bit. Imagine the conversations she could be having with Buffy if she started dating him? “Home by 11:00 or I will slay him!”.

Ok on to the meat.

The Tara/Willow stuff. Every week they are together it is more obvious they are getting back together. Yes there is still some hurt, but that can’t change what they both obviously feel. And Amber and Aly do such a fantastic job of making us believe that.
Their scenes were great, sweet and, dare I say…touching.
The dressing Anya scene was a W/T highpoint for the season, we might have to go back to Bargaining to see such wonderful interaction between them.
Speaking of fantastic. Mein Gött in Himmel, can Emma act or what? If anyone doubted she loved Xander before this well here was the proof. I do believe that Xander does love Anya, I still do. I just don’t think he knows what to do. I do feel awful for both of them. But to be perfectly honest, not as bad as I felt at the end of TR.
I can see Anya trying the vengeance demon gig again, but as many of you have pointed out, this season is about growing up and for Anya that would be a step backwards.

I was spoiled to hell and back on this one, so it was not the heart wrencher it would have been. But I am considering going unspoiled for the rest of the season...yeah right, I'll cave in by next week.

Edited to add: I remember a couple other points.
- Yes I was under the impression that Tara was Anya's maid of honor as well. Makes the most sense to me.

- About Giles. Ok, Joss has shown us that his characters do not live in a vacuum. Stuff goes on on "Angel" and then it might later have an effect on "Buffy". Who is to say that Giles is not in the middle of some life or death situation right now? Or being grilled by the Watcher's council about Buffy's return from the dead? I am willing to cut the G man some slack.

Warlock

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 06, 2002).]

by **Eyes Without A Face** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:48 am

What if more Gentlemen show up while Willow & Tara are having The Talk? Willow will have to mime her apology, let her fingers do the talking!

------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

by **cachaco** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:00 am

Wow, what an ep, just like an actual wedding, a roller-coaster of emotions - alas, ending up on the sad end of things. I'm glad that they showed a different side of Xander's feelings for Anya this week, what's been shown so far has not spoken well of him, so this nuance was nice. I don't know how convincing I find his fears as a reason for backing out, but then, we haven't seen that much that I recall - other than oblique negative references - about X's feelings about his upbringing and parents, so who can tell. This is that old ethical chestnut, what's the better thing to do, go ahead with a marriage that you don't feel ready for because everyone is there and it's the day of, or to back out and inflict immediate pain (and expense!) in the interest of (what you think of) as longer-term well-being. Very tough call, it's a no-win situation. Naturally, the answer is, you don't go into this thing in the first place if you're not ready, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Poor Anya, poor poor Anya, the way she walked halfway down the aisle and just stopped, it was heartbreaking. I don't know what the future holds for them, but that kind of humiliation is something I don't know that you can get over, no matter how much you love or loved someone. I just wish Xander had realized he wasn't ready earlier - I do think it's better to back out rather than commit to a marriage you're not ready for/100% committed to, but geez, he coulda saved everyone the trouble and heartbreak (and expense!) by being more mature and understanding himself better before getting into this. Disappointing, to say the least.

Anyway, overall it was a great ep, really had it all - laughs, tenderness, friendship, touching, comedy, slapstick, sartorial splendor and disaster, did I mention touching? I was SO pleased to see the W/T interaction highlighted, right from the "previously on...", the chemistry AB and AH have just jumps off the screen, they're so perfect together as actresses and characters. You can really feel the love AND the heat. Did I mention touching?

My wife is pretty into the show as well, not as much as I, so my gauge lately of an episode is how much she likes it, and she was laughing out loud all through the first and second acts. I think we have a winner....

------------------
PASTURE: See... that is, where you are a mockup. With I think on..., you grew up to what, and... then regard I, which you form... it me are proud. It educates me to love you more.

[This message has been edited by cachaco (edited March 06, 2002).]

by **Scout** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:04 am

quote:
Originally posted by Willowlicious:
...I think Willow wants to wait until she can make it all about Tara. She wouldn't dream of not apologizing. I'm sure she's got it all planned in her busy little head. No worries.

Thanks, Amy - what you said makes a great deal of sense. I guess I'm just incredibly impatient at this stage for things to move along. Watching their reconciliation is like watching grass grow! And knowing there's another long break coming up doesn't help much.

But I'll try to be patient because I'm confident Joss will make it worth the wait.

I wonder who will pen 'the talk.'
quote:

by **kpmuse** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:20 am

After watching this episode for now, 6 times, I have to say that Rebecca Rand Kirshner is the master of blending comedy and tragedy, the best Willow & Tara moments ever, and poignant and profound moments.

What a great group of actors on this show!

kris

by **Puff** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:35 am

Go Rebecca what a great episode, I really loved the Willow/Tara interaction. They need to get back together though and soon please.

I enjoyed watching this spoiler free, I have nothing nice too say about Xander but I do feel really sorry for Xander.

Oh and did anyone notice Willow rescuing Tara when she was going to go off and find Xander? I think her mind must have been focused elsewhere

------------------
'The cold and ruthless sea tossed the lovers' into the starry black night. together they fall, together they sleep. forever.. forever.. *whisper*forever..the cold and ruthless sea...' By Sweets

by **Ari** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:42 am

I thought the real brilliance of the dress scene was that by using Anya's vows and W/T's reactions to them, they managed to illustrate both why they are heading toward getting back together, with the obvious love and connection between them, and why they still have a ways to go, with Tara's continued uncertainty.

I'm also hoping we get an apology. What worries me about that is since TR they have made it out to seem like Tara left Willow just because she was abusing magic. And that's not really true. That was a big part of it, but Tara left because of the mind control and betrayal. The magic enabled that, but to me the specifics of what she did are the bigger issue. I don't want to see that overlooked.

As far as Xander goes, I guess I feel like he did a bad thing for a good reason. I can only guess about what the specifics of his fears were. But I don't think it's as simple as worrying about turning into another version of his father. The idea of being trapped in a loveless marriage hit just a little bit too close to home, I think.

It makes me think deep down he still has doubts about what he feels for her. And he didn't want to trap her into a marriage when he wasn't sure he could give her his whole heart. Partly because of what that would do to him, but mainly because of what it would do to her.

So the irony is that not marrying her may have been the purest act of love he's ever shown for her.

Ow. Just, ow.

Ari

by **tommo** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:52 am

quote:
Originally posted by Ari:
I'm also hoping we get an apology. What worries me about that is since TR they have made it out to seem like Tara left Willow just because she was abusing magic. And that's not really true. That was a big part of it, but Tara left because of the mind control and betrayal. The magic enabled that, but to me the specifics of what she did are the bigger issue. I don't want to see that overlooked.

Hmm. I don't think it is being overlooked. I suppose since the beginning of Willow and Tara's relationship, the magic has always been a metaphor for something else. I think in this case, it was probably a metaphor for secrets; holding something back; hiding things from your partner. I kind of feel like I don't need to see an apology, because I know for sure that once they're in each other's arms, the "I"m sorries" will flow pretty much freely. Of that I'm assured. Besides which, I think Tara can see how sorry Willow is, and how hard she's trying to make things right again.

quote:
The idea of being trapped in a loveless marriage hit just a little bit too close to home, I think.
It makes me think deep down he still has doubts about what he feels for her. And he didn't want to trap her into a marriage when he wasn't sure he could give her his whole heart. Partly because of what that would do to him, but mainly because of what it would do to her.
So the irony is that not marrying her may have been the purest act of love he's ever shown for her.

I understand what you're saying here, and it's a really good point you're making. However, I can't help but feel like Xander has built this relationship up on half feelings and mistaken emotions. Into The Woods was on yesterday and there was Xander's whole speech about why he loves Anya. Because she makes him feel like a man. Blergh. I hate that explanation. To me it seems so selfish.

And that's what I was seeing in the ep last night. All I saw was how Xander felt about this; his own insecurities; his own worries. And he's just not up to the commitment. Which really bothers me. I felt like his walking away, leaving Anya to explain everything to the congregation just underlined his immaturity. And whilst not marrying her might have been an act of love, it sure didn't come over that way to me.

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

Who is online