The Lesbian Cliche FAQ

[superherofan]

Well, whoever is keeping a list of dead/evil lesbians in the media can add tonight's "Smallville" to the list. A two for one deal.

[the kat whisperer]

Okay, if you're looking for updates to the big heaping pile o' dead TV lesbians you can also add Kelly from UK soap Family Affairs. She died recently when her gf's soon-to-be-ex-husband pushed her down the stairs while they were having an argument.



If that wasn't enough, it seems as though--if I've read the upcoming spoilers correctly--that Karen may be tempted to return to her husband again.



If I'm not mistaken, this is part of the cliche as well. The newly discovered lesbian, after the violent death of the "evil" lesbian who "turned" her, returns to the man whom she was with in the first place--conveniently forgetting that he was responsible for her lover's death. (Being a soap, there's more to this story than I've paraphrased here but you get the point.)



I only watched this soap because of the Kelly/Karen relationship, but now...suffice it to say I stopped watching the second I saw Kelly tumble down the stairs. And I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it since.



Will it ever end? This was the only UK lesbian couple that I know of currently on TV and it ended with the death of one of them. Why do I even bother?



kw

Neelix: "Coffee, anyone? Captain?"
Janeway: "No thanks, I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp!"

[xita]

My god, I had to watch, even though I'd never seen it.



It was... ... good lord.



Stalker dyke is morphing into different guys to get into straight girl's pants. That's the summation, of course she ends up killed by a huge penetrating spike. ANd she was called a freak twice!!

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[Warduke]

Another great example of lesbians on TV

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Mozilla : One Browser to Rule Them All.

[superherofan]

Smallville - some of the details:



Tina, the evil AND crazy AND now dead lesbian, also went through Lana's underwear drawer in the ep, a "Rebecca" retread.



She had also "apparently" tried to commit suicide while she was in a mental instuition, but it was just a ruse to get out somehow.



After acting "off" in the guise of a straight man (Whitney) who had just died serving in the military, she bludgoened the officer who had come to tell Whitney's mother about his death. The blood covered his/her face, being pretty gory for "Smallville". Immediately, after this scene, the first act of violence, she turns into her normal self, revealing the true identity of the villain of the week.



She disguises herself as the straight friend (Chloe) of the object of her affection (Lana) and puts the moves on her, while Lana wears only a towel. Chloe/Lana have had some subtext scenes, but this was the first overt act between the two characters.



Whenever she was fighting with Clark Kent, she was in the body of the man. However, when she was impaled, with blood pouring from her chest and mouth, she reverted to her female form. Her last words were to "Take care of Lana."

[urnofosiris]

Ah but rest assured, I am sure the writers and producers did not make her an evil murderer/stalker/freak because she was a lesbian, she just happened to be a lesbian, she was treated like every other individual so she is not part of the lesbian cliche you see? Shame on you for even thinking that.

Maybe you should go and read the celluloid closet before you get mistaken for a homophobe.

[superherofan]

Ah, yes. Bad, bad me. After all, there have been plenty example of straight murdering psycho killers who end up dead on the show. How dare I ask for "special" treatment? After all, there are undoubtedly plenty of other positive examples of gay and lesbian characters on "Smallville"?



[crickets chirping]



Oh, right? There isn't. So far this is the only out lesbian we've seen on the show: a murdering, psychotic lesbian. Ah, but there are big "subtext" relationships, even with Clark Kent and Lex Luthor! Only, it's not so much anymore, and they are all throwing "my character is heterosexual" anvils to the audience.



So, for the record: we have a subtext (read: closeted) relationship that is okay, as long as no one notices otherwise we better subtitle "STRAIGHT CHARACTER" across every scene, and an out of the closet murdering, psychotic stalker lesbian who is now a corpse.



I better go read "Celluloid Closet" again; I think my reactions to the show make me a homophobe.

[Patches]

I heard the scuttlebut about the lesbian character, and before I made the same mistake with Smallville that I made with BtVS, I decided to wait to see what would happen. Gotta admit, I'm glad I ignored the show. Beginning to think that unless it's specifically made by and for the community, I'm just going to assume any gay character is evil and/or going to die. No more Charlie Brown syndrome for me with mainstream TV.

[sleah]

Here's an article about the dead/evil lesbian cliche on the "Smallville" episode last night:



www.afterellen.com/tv/smallville.html



What a pathetic, disappointing display of homophobia!

[Kieli]

Apparently Third Watch wasn't much an exception this week either. Officer Faith Yokas and Bosco go to a scene of domestic dispute only to find that Faith's former college friend, Claire, (LOTS of subtext here) is involved. Claire's wife and Claire are throwing stuff out of windows and breaking things, basically acting like out of control psycho lesbians. Yokas tries to get Claire to leave the wife, because apparently said wife has been beating the hell out of her pretty regularly. All the while, Faith's partner, Maurice Boscorelli (Bosco) is making snide, smartassed comments about Faith's previous lecture to him about women "being wired differently" which the audience is left to assume means she has told him that women are incapable of domestic violence.



While Faith's portrayal and treatment of her friend is rather sensitive, the whole episode bugged the living hell outta me. The resolutions made no sense and much of the dialogue left me going, "What the hell was THAT all about?" *sigh* Third Watch gets added to the cliche list although, in truth, it probably should've been added a long time ago because the show has consistently portrayed women in a hideous light.



Kieli

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Secret Senses"

[Rosenberg]

Did anyone watch Fastlane on FOX Friday night (1-17)? It was nothing but another pack of Lesbian clichés. We have the criminal lesbian who murdered two people and her accomplice who got shot in the back. But she didn’t die, so I guess that means the cliché wasn’t in effect. There was also the obligatory ‘straight boys trying to pass as gay to get into the lesbian bar and get turned on’ scene. I didn’t really watch it very closely because I was on the phone at the time, but I caught enough of it to piss me off.

[xita]

Well yeah fastlane is a trashy show. It's bad, but I would expect this kind of show to deliver that kind of thing. And still I think smallville was way more insulting. This was for titilation, no denying that. All I came away thinking was Tiffany Amber Thiesen should play a lesbian on a real good show, I'd watch that.

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[tommo]

I bet you would, xita.



UK Kittens; does anyone watch Hollyoaks? I noticed this week that there's some kind of storyline involving a woman called Laura, who apparently has tried to poison Mandy. The bunch of meddling schoolchildren who are in the show are purporting a rumour that Mandy and Laura were lesbian lovers. They weren't, but these children are associating this with the whole "poison" storyline. It just...I dunno, it just struck me as being really silly. The whole thing.



Anyway, just wondered if anyone else had been watching it.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[aimbly]

I've sorta been following the mandy/laura storyline on hollyoaks, its pathetic!



Pretty much seems now that laura's the evil lesbian with a mental illness.

"Life's such an irritant for a picture of innocence like me"

- Mark and Cerys - 'To and Fro'

[Ellenore]

Is the QL episode refered to in the FAQ the one with the evil leapers, or another one?

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tyche

Someone who watched more of this than I did might be able to describe it in more detail - I only watched approx. the last 15 minutes of the first ep of the 2-parter, and that was with the sound off.

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I know it's been over a month but I have been meaning to ask if you ever saw part 2? I assume not, but I am still curious whether they made it worse than it already was.

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Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[themagicpixie]

Hollyoaks has always been pathetic. Two of its characters were best friends, and they decided to make it so that they had been lesbian lovers all along. Then both got angsty about their sexuality, experimented with men etc etc etc before being written off. I am kind of annoyed that the male gay and bisexual characters on that show always get a much better deal. And Laura is just another example of your obsessive TV lesbian.



Family Affairs has previously had two bisexual characters, Holly Hart (got blown up on a boat and died, though admittedly it was her whole family who were being axed that way) and Susie - who was actually quite a well-written character. Interestingly, she dumped Holly's brother Duncan and later went out with Holly... she also made it out of Charnham alive. I am really disappointed with how they have handled the latest lesbian storyline. There was a lot of potential there, but it was obvious they didn't know what to do with the characters. Kelly should just have gone back to Oz in that case, not ended up dead. UK lesbian magazine "DIVA" did a two-page spread praising the storyline (before Kelly's death aired). Bah.

[tommo]

Yes, I'm finding that Hollyoaks is rubbing me up the wrong way right now, what with all the accusations of "lezzer" being thrown around. All that while the gay male character swans around being...well, gay.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[themagicpixie]

I know, tommo. I used to watch Hollyoaks when it first started, as I live near Chester where it's set, and where some of the outside scenes are filmed (the majority of the filming takes place on a set and in studios in Liverpool). I was in a youth theatre group and some of us got to be extras and minor characters on the show. Wowee. Anyhow, I stopped watching once I realised it was a) crap b) all these healthy young people kept dying in horrible accidents / murders etc.



Although the gay guy on "Hollyoaks" is so far not dead or mad, he, like Laura the psycho lesbian, is living up to a stereotype - in his case, that of the camp gay male with fabulous! female best friends. Who kind of fancy him. Now, I know quite a few gay men (they were assigned to me when I got my regulation lesbian badge, dungarees and big DM boots) and although quite a lot of them are indeed camp and thus conform to the stereotype, well, whaddya know: some of them don't! It's like, gay people are capable of having a whole spectrum of personalities, just like gay people, and have more to their characters then their homosexuality! Incredible!



My very best male gay friend (whom I have to thank for helping me meet my g/f!) isn't camp at all. He's just gay. 100% gay, never been with a woman, never been interested in that. He does, admittedly, have a CD of duets between Meatloaf and Bonnie Tyler that he listened to non-stop between the ages of 16 and 18... but he really doesn't conform to the stereotype of saying "dahling!" etc etc.



Anyway, to get this back on topic, there are no good lesbian characters on British TV now, with so many falling the way of cliche:



Kelly from Family Affairs = dead

Karen from Family Affairs = mourning, guilt-stricken, er, possibly going back to husband

Zoe from Emmerdale = became an alcoholic, went mad, slept with a man and got pregnant

Laura from Hollyoaks = mad, psychotic, murderous

And of course:

Willow on Buffy (S6 currently airing on BBC2) = crack addict, split with girlfriend

Tara on Buffy = being built up to be killed off.



Good grief.



I only hope Cleo from Crossroads is gay *NOT THAT I HAVE BEEN WATCHING CROSSROADS* ... Oh OK, maybe a couple of times... I didn't mean to. It didn't mean anything.

[tommo]

There's the lesbian character on The Bill. She's actually rather cool. And hey, not mad or dead.



Won't be long though...sigh...I'm sure she'll die "heroically" in some horrid accident or crime scene. Oh bah.



And which one is Chloe in Crossroads? Not that I uh...watch it or anything either, of course. Ahem.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[themagicpixie]

Ooh yeah, I forgot about the girl on The Bill. That station is a dangerous place to be though, not sure how long she'll last... I did love it the other week when she slept with one of the major suspects in the armed robbery investigation though. Sorry I guess I am just tacky like that. I was watching this episode with my mother, and you know, I blushed when the women on TV kissed (I still haven't got over the fact my mother *knows*)



Cleo (short for Cleopatra, would you believe) on Crossroads is Jane "Look at my lovely post-Paul McCartney cakes" Asher's character's daughter. The actress has been on EastEnders as Beppe's ex-wife. She keeps saying how her family don't understand her and how she wants her own life away from the hotel, plus she looks a little bit like a dyke, so I thought maybe she'd turn out to be gay. She probably won't though. (Curses).

[kajo 2000]

I hope that this is the right thread for this article.



From the latest issue of The Advocate:



www.advocate.com/html/stories/882/882_maclaine.asp



|| video ||

To Hellman and back

Screen legend Shirley MacLaine talks to gay indie icon Craig Chester about her work in Lillian Hellman's The Children's Hour, new to DVD

By Craig Chester

From The Advocate, February 4, 2003



The first time I met Shirley MacLaine, she was Mary Kay Ash. While visiting my friend Parker Posey in Winnipeg, Canada, for the shoot of the CBS movie Hell on Heels: The Battle of Mary Kay, I had been forewarned. "Shirley is so cool," Parker reported to me a day before I arrived. "You are going to love her." Over the next three weeks, while I fended off Winnipeg's infamous mosquito population, Parker's prediction came true. I fell in love with Shirley MacLaine, and yes, she was very, very cool. I watched Shirley work on a role that would eventually garner her a Golden Globe nomination, and when she was off-camera, we talked. And talked. And talked.



Thought-provoking, fiercely intelligent, and hysterically funny, Shirley MacLaine is also a storyteller. Being that we are both actors who have written somewhat controversial memoirs, we have a lot of stories up our sleeves. Upon hearing the nature of my book, Why the Long Face? which deals with being out in Hollywood, she replied, "You're going out on a limb too, Craig!" We have both, in our ways, come out of our respective closets—hers spiritual, mine sexual—and we related to how our lives have sometimes seemed more interesting and weird than some of the roles we've played.



But in MGM's new DVD release of Lillian Hellman's The Children's Hour (1961), we're reminded of MacLaine the actor at her best—the perfect union of provocative person with provocative role. I recently phoned Shirley to discuss her classic film's "reincarnation" on DVD.



I just watched The Children's Hour and thought you were amazing!

Well, it's not about me, Craig; it's about what Lillian was trying to say.



I found it to be both dated and somehow oddly relevant at the same time.

There was a lot to be done in that movie that wasn't done. There were whole scenes where my character, Martha, was lovingly ironing Karen's clothes, brushing her hair, baking for her, and so forth, and then, at the last minute, Willie Wyler got scared and cut the arc of my character out because he was afraid of the controversy. It still stands up, but the critics at the time knew what he had done, and they called it a "cultural antique." I'm sorry that he didn't go all the way. He was more or less saying that Martha didn't know what she was really feeling, but she did. She knew she was in love with Karen; [she was] not a confused person. A knowing person. It was about this taboo love. But everything is ultimately about love. All love is about spirituality.



Were you apprehensive about playing a lesbian in the early '60s?

Oh, not at all! I only got apprehensive once he cut it down!



But even though much of Martha's overt lesbianism is cut down, I think a lot of gay men and women can still relate to her feelings of outrage at both the outside world and at herself for what she is. I liked that the film spoke of the feelings of love between these women, as opposed to just some overtly sexual thing as everything gay seems to be today.

Well, today, it's the culture of desire. Today, it's all about controversy. Back then we were more interested in the emotional side of things.



Did you develop a friendship with Audrey Hepburn during the movie?

Oh, my God, I was in love with her!



Who wouldn't be! How do you think Hollywood has changed in its perceptions of gays and lesbians?

Oh! Well, they're everywhere now! Just like they are in real life! It's all changing—the perception of what families are, everything. You know, I really do admire what Rosie [O'Donnell] is doing. In this country we don't have the closemouthed attitudes about things anymore. And that's the brilliance of this society and the freedom to be who you are. What would Michelangelo have achieved in that time period if he was as free as gay men are now? What if he was known as a gay artist? Can you imagine?



Yeah, actually, I can. Did you have lots of gay friends in the early '60s, Shirley?

I've had gay friends, Craig, since I was 20! I was in the ballet, and I never knew what all the fuss was about. I just never understood why there was so much homophobia at all, so there's really been no arc in my growth at all with the subject.



You're such a gay icon in so many ways. Why do you think that is?

I think the gay movement—out of desperation, I suppose—has found alternative spiritualities because so much of traditional religion does not accept them, and that is what I write about. Also, because I came out of the spiritual "closet" before anybody else did, despite the consequences—that's something that gay people can relate to.



What do you think gays and lesbians have to teach the world?

To tell the truth. Lillian Hellman was a person of truth-telling, and that's why she wrote The Children's Hour. What Lillian was saying is that in every lie there is an ounce of truth. In the lie the little girl tells, there's truth in it about Martha.



Oh! That little girl Mary! I hated her! She was such a nightmare. I kept wanting you and Audrey to be like, "Screw these yokels! We're movin' to the Village and getting a cat!"

Craig, this is Lillian Hellman; that's not what she wanted to say. It was about this taboo love. But everything is ultimately about love. The love between people—black, white, orange, or purple. That's what life's all about after all, isn't it?

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 1/29/03 7:11:42 am

[Ben Varkentine]

For those of us playing at home, the premiere of the new "Dragnet" series features a serial killer/rapist, one of whom's victims is, you gussed it, a lesbian.



Her bereft partner has not been shown to be evil (although both are hookers), but it's early yet.

Ben Varkentine



Read my film, music and book reviews at



http://www.ink19.com (new) & http://www.popmatters.com (archival)

[Big Dummy]

Hmm, I got 2 great lesbian depictions for ya'. Begin sarcasm font.



Fastlane (yeah, it's crappy but that's no excuse)had a great ep where Tiffani Amber-Thiessen had to go undercover as a lesbian to capture a lesbian burglar. This might have been a repeat of the same one someone mentioned on the last page, so I won't go into too much detail.



The big shocker to me, because this show has been good in the past in terms of dealing with issues, is Boston Public. I saw the previews for next week's show, and guess what? A young lesbian has a crush on her teacher (I forget which one), and her crush turns into a Fatal Attraction-type thing. One soundbite has the Principal commenting that they're "dealing with a very disturbed young woman". Of course she's disturbed! She's gay, isn't she?



Better warm those VCRs up. /sarcasm

[xita]

Ooh, you must tell me the day it is on, I am all over these now. Surprisingly so far the one that should have been the most offensive (Fastlane) wasn't. So far it's Smallville but this one sounds oh so promising, or rather not.

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Baby you make my love come down

Oh you make my love come down

Make it come all the way down -
Evelyn Champagne King

[Big Dummy]

Hey, Xita. This ep of Boston Public airs next Monday, Feb. 10 at 8pm/7c.

Quote:

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This week on Boston Public: Love is in the air at Winslow High. But when a teacher gets too involved, attraction turns to obsession.

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They don't mention that this is a lesbian teen. It'll be interesting to see just how far they go with this.

[Kendahl897]

I atually enjoyed that episode of Fastlane because T.A.T.'s character seemed to be enjoying herself so much..I mean this show has never pretended to be anything more than what it is. Unlike some others

[xita]

Well TAT hee , did seem to enjoy herself. But I think what I liked about it too was that Billie seemed to care genuinely for the thief girl. Not sure how much but it seemed to be a little more than it should have been, plus you get the feeling that perhaps loving girls could be in Billie's cards. The fact that the one girl seemed to be really evil, was ok in the balance that the blonde was just a thief, nothing real sinister.

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Baby you make my love come down

Oh you make my love come down

Make it come all the way down -
Evelyn Champagne King

[kajo 2000]

From the latest issue of The Advocate:



www.advocate.com/html/stories/883/883_happyendings.asp



|| television ||

So happy together



For gay and lesbian characters, finding love and a happy ending is a fairly recent phenomenon. Here are some of our favorites

By Michael Giltz

From The Advocate, February 18, 2003



Being queer in the movies, on TV, and in plays doesn't mean misery and woe anymore. Witness these happy gay milestones—the pop-culture events in which the boy gets the boy, the girl gets the girl, and no one has to die at the end.



Here's a subjective look at some of the landmark moments when the audience didn't have to squint to catch the pink tinge and the characters didn't apologize.



TELEVISION

Boys: Cable networks like HBO and Showtime have made unapologetic queer love stories much more commonplace in recent years, whether it's David Fisher reuniting with Keith on Six Feet Under or Queer as Folk's Michael and Ben working out their HIV issues. For our happy landmark, though, we'll take the brief moment in 1989 on thirtysomething when two gay men were first seen in bed on network television. Finally, after decades of foreplay, a gay man on TV scored.



Girls: Yes, that much-hyped lesbian wedding on Friends garnered lots of attention, but for unapologetic queerness, we remember Roseanne—Sandra Bernhard dated Morgan Fairchild; Mariel Hemingway kissed Roseanne and said, "Next time, let's leave the wives at home"; and Roseanne's mother ultimately realized she liked looking at Playboy a lot more than the other moms did.



Honorable mention for both sexes goes to Northern Exposure, which was queer from the very beginning (one of its first episodes covered Walt Whitman), featured a gay marriage, and even did a flashback episode in which the town was founded by two pioneering lesbians. Too bad one of them had to die tragically.



THEATER

Boys: Harvey Fierstein's landmark Broadway smash Torch Song Trilogy showed drag queen Arnold Beckoff searching for true love, surviving the sudden loss of a lover, and creating his own alternative family. Sure, it was a mainstream hit, but this was a queer show speaking to a queer audience. If straight people wanted to attend, they could—but they'd better sit in the back and keep quiet.



Girls: Unlike gay plays, substantial dramas with lesbian-lover protagonists are still far too much of a novelty in the mainstream theater. Rides into the sunset are certainly few and far between for women on Broadway. Female playwrights have always done bold work, and one can point to substantial shows like Jane Chambers's A Late Snow from 1974 (a distaff but far less bitchy Boys in the Band), her Last Summer at Blue Fish Cove from 1976 (lesbian romance with a bittersweet twist), or Cheryl Moch's 1985 play Cinderella, The Real True Story (in which the title character and the princess realize they don't need a prince at all). Even as recent a show as David Mamet's Boston Marriage stands out as an all-too-rare example of lesbian theater.



As for that landmark lesbian theatrical show that puts its stamp on popular culture? It's apparently a happy event we still have to look forward to.



MOVIES

Boys: We all remember, of course, the many wonderful queer movie romances of the '80s and '90s. Our mates across the pond gave us the swoony romanticism of Beautiful Thing, the cross-cultural snogging of My Beautiful Laundrette, and the class-differences-be-damned climax of Maurice, where aristo and servant go off into the sunset holding hands.



But nothing beats the midnight-movie staple The Rocky Horror Picture Show for stirring up memories about the first time some felt free to be themselves in public. Sure, Tim Curry died at the end of this 1975 horror-comedy—but he came back for the big musical finale! With audience members cross-dressing and getting up on the stage to act out dances, queers weren't just accepted—we were the stars!



Girls: The independent film boom of the last decade or so meant that more lesbian movies were being made and, more important, seen. Films like Go Fish, The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love, and It's in the Water brought satisfying girl-girl love stories to multiplexes everywhere.



However, most women think of Desert Hearts as that first landmark—the indie flick from 1985 may have had a qualified ending, but it was truly positive in the best sense of the word. Most important, Helen Shaver and Patricia Charbonneau had chemistry to spare. Straight audiences wouldn't realize how sexy sculpting was until 1990's Ghost.

[xita]

You know I am really amused by this. People say they see happy lesbians everywhere.. but.. let's look at the examples a write for a gay publications gives:



Roseanne? Wait, Sandra's character was hardly happy and really barely gay. The Hemingway kiss was nothing but a stunt. The mother gay thing was revealed as a joke by roseanne to give her mom something interesting. The sister character was really gay but it was revealed that Roseanne (the character) couldn't deal with it so in the show she had made her straight. Hardly happy to me.



And finally, Norther Exposure? Yeah I remember the gay lover being SHOT.



Yeah good going, try harder next time when thinking of happy lesbians. In fact the people behing Relativity and Once and Again seem to be the only ones who were willing to have happy lesbians, too bad both shows were CANCELLED as soon as the relationships began.

-----------------
Baby you make my love come down

Oh you make my love come down

Make it come all the way down -
Evelyn Champagne King