T.A.T.U. An uneasy feeling.

[tkheaven]

VH1's Where Are They Now? *snicker* I don't even want to imagine....

Tk's new and improved "GrrArgg"...

---

"I've become really protective of her. I want to make sure if Tara comes back, it's for good reason." -Amber Benson
Tara ate her, devoured her from beneath. -The Edge of Silence giving new meaning to this season's catch phrase.
"Don't get me wrong. I kinda like being the quirky nympho chick." - Michelle in 'American Pie 3'

[sprhrgrl]

I know nothing about this group, but from the Girl Who Usually Knows at my local Gay Youth Alliance meeting, she says that they claim that they "aren't lesbians, just gay for eachother."



She then brought up a couple of girls who used to be int he group, one of whom said that she would be straight if it was anyone other than her girlfriend of three years.

[The Destroyer]

They're not gay (not that it matters at all), because one of them (at least) as a boyfriend. Its just another case if puppets doing what they're told to win the mass market.



And it would be nice if that meant that lesbianism was more accepetd by the general populace because of this, but sadly its just another reason to use gay relationships (between women) as a source of tittilation. Nothing can ever move forward when things are portrayed that way.



And whats more disturbing, as others have pointed out, is that its directly using underage sex as a means of selling the songs. I find that sickening. And what is worse is that no one in the mainstream cares. With the exception of Richard and Judy (and its a sad time when we have to think they're making sense), everyones willing to cater for something thats avodcation illegal acts. And they're not the only example of this.



Of course, if a real in control lesbian singer came along, you can bet they wouldnt be using that as a marketing tool.



And the worst thing is that i actually like the damn song. Wont buy it tho!

[lilkkgirl4u]

i agree with your opinion whole-heartedly..

its so disapointing and demeaning that this is happening...this exploitation and mass marketing should not be fooling the american market

but, i as well also like the song (guilty look)

[StrawberryTrix]

i dunno bout the rest of u but i really love t.A.T.u. i love the girls i love the music and i really dont care wots behind them coz woteva their manager is doing to try and promote them or woteva these girls are still amazing in themselves. not because they are supposedly gay or woteva but i read profiles on the girls and i love wot they are like coz like lena is alot like me in a way. they are funny girls and they r jus like us i mean jus normal girls trying to make a difference in the world thru their music and i dont see wots wrong with that. their manager is a prick i will admit that but i dont care bout him i jus care bout them and their music. thats jus me anyways



Straw

"My teeth, my car, my vagina, my business"~Kelly Osbourne



edited twice coz im a spaz

Edited by: StrawberryTrix at: 3/23/03 2:07:21 am

[SJ]

TATU are representing Russia in the Eurovision Song Contest in May.

[Zippy]

Why am I not surprised by this. I can't wait for Terry Wogans comment's on their performance



Maybe we should enter Jo Brand and Ruby Wax in competition, I'm sure they could do a pretty good piss take of them

'Your sister's a pissed up muff muncher ' - Phil, At Home with the Braithwaites

[tommo]

Quote:

---

they r jus like us i mean jus normal girls trying to make a difference in the world thru their music and i dont see wots wrong with that.

---

There's a certain innocence in your view of them and I think that's the way a lot of their fans see them as well. But the fact still remains that TATU aren't the ones trying to make a difference; their manager is. And the difference he's trying to make is to his bank balance. These girls have just been caught in the crossfire, unfortunately, and to me anyway, seem to be little more than his puppets.

Willow: Drunk.. I mean, that's such a-a strong word. Kind of a guttural Anglo-Saxon word. Drunk.

[StrawberryTrix]

But the fact still remains that TATU aren't the ones trying to make a difference; their manager is. And the difference he's trying to make is to his bank balance. These girls have just been caught in the crossfire, unfortunately, and to me anyway, seem to be little more than his puppets.

Wot do you mean they arent trying to make a difference?? Do you seriously think the only reason they are in the music industry is to be exploited by a greedy, dirty, rich old man?? The reason they are really in the business is because like alot of musicians all they want is to help people thru their everyday lives with their music...i know it sounds corny but it works for alot of us. If they didnt want this to be true then why are they still continuing in their careers?? Just answer me that please



Straw

"My teeth, my car, my vagina, my business"~Kelly Osbourne

Edited by: StrawberryTrix at: 4/5/03 1:13:09 pm

[AmberAlysonlover]

I sooooooooooooo love TATU. I know they are made for old man but I love them. They are cute looking girls who can really sing. They are doing a few gigs next month in the UK but I cant go. I live too far away from Manchester and London *sulks*.



They are all an act. They might not love each other but they are making young girls see its fine being in love with another girl. I was mixed up at the age of 15 but now im not. I have the best of both worlds. TATU are a good act for girls who are mixed up like I was. Yes, its an act but they are really good for helping girls.



I know I'm sad coz I love TATU but everyone has different music types. I love so many different music types...but TATU are classic in my eyes.

[tommo]

Quote:

---

The reason they are really in the business is because like alot of musicians all they want is to help people thru their everyday lives with their music...i know it sounds corny but it works for alot of us. If they didnt want this to be true then why are they still continuing in their careers?? Just answer me that please

---

Well...didn't you just answer your own question right there? If you want my opinion then all you need to do is read through my earlier posts in this thread. However, if you're going to ask me a question and then answer it yourself, then you just did that.



Your point about "help[ing] people thru their everyday lives with their music" is an interesting one. I wonder how many currently popular artists would do their job for no profit, if they knew it was helping people through their everyday lives? I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be that many. Music, after all, is a business in and of itself. And, judging from the notoriety TATU gleaned from their last foray into the music business, it's a rather lucrative one too.



I'll be interested to see how their next single release fares.

Willow: Drunk.. I mean, that's such a-a strong word. Kind of a guttural Anglo-Saxon word. Drunk.

[feena191]

I imagine it will depend on the video...



Feena

-x-

---------------------------------------

How's he gonna read that magazine rolled up like that?

~ Famous last words of an insect

[StrawberryTrix]

I wonder how many currently popular artists would do their job for no profit, if they knew it was helping people through their everyday lives? I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be that many. Music, after all, is a business in and of itself. And, judging from the notoriety TATU gleaned from their last foray into the music business, it's a rather lucrative one too

I will admit that yeah alot of todays top artists such as Ja Rule and them are in this business for the fame and fortune...but alot of people and i know one such as Vanessa Amorosi...they are only in it to get the music out into the world to help people from her prior experiences thru the same ordeal that the listeners are in. in my opinion..i would have to say that yes alot of you people out there in the world prefer such artists as Britney and Chirstina...but people such as myself like artists who are expressing thier point of view. i believe that the t.A.T.u girls are two of these such people...they might be backed by a feral old man and they might not be really lesbians...but really they have given young girls the courage to speak out about their sexuality. many of us we dont care about wot their sexuality is we jus either like thier music or like thier courage in the fact that they can be who they are and not who others want them to be.



Straw

"My teeth, my car, my vagina, my business"~Kelly Osbourne

Edited by: StrawberryTrix at: 4/5/03 10:09:51 pm

[Zippy]

Quote:

---

like thier courage in the fact that they can be who they are and not who others want them to be

---

But are they really being who they want to be instead of what other people want them to be? The manager wants them to appear to be gay, it is selling the record. I have read in several different magazines and newspapers about their boyfriends and when they are asked about it the response is 'they are are boyfriends but we are not allowed to talk about that.' To me it certainly doesn't sound like they are being who they want to be.

Like the naked leads the blind, I know I’m selfish, I’m unkind. Sucker lover I always find someone to bruise and leave behind. All alone in space and time, there’s nothing here but what’s here’s mine something borrowed something blue, every me and every you.

[StrawberryTrix]

if they dont like how they are being treated then why are they still going thru all of it???



Straw

"My teeth, my car, my vagina, my business"~Kelly Osbourne

[tommo]

Well that's the eternal question isn't it? I would suggest that perhaps it has something do with being promised the world, their youth and naivete, and the fact that it's brought them notoriety.

You're twisting my melons man,
you know you talk so hip man you're twisting my melons man.
Call the cops!

[cassiopeia191]

I love your sig...that's my favorite Placebo song. *sigh*





I agree that Tatu might really have done something for lesbian visibility (I imagine Russia and Eastern Europe to be way more homophobic than let's say, 'old Europe') but that probably only worked out because they really aren't, lesbians, I mean. It's more like gimmick they can employ whenever they want but it doesn't really have any consequences...and that is sad.

[tommo]

Quite the contrary; I think what they do does indeed have consequences. The aspect of this that saddens me the most is that attention has been drawn to sexuality, and their success hinges on the sexual image they portray. Sex sells. And lesbian sex appears to sell more than any other.

You're twisting my melons man,
you know you talk so hip man you're twisting my melons man.
Call the cops!

[SJ]

The video for the next single Not Gonna Get Us is being played on MTV at the moment.The single is out in May.They are performing three concerts that month before Eurovision.

In the video they are driving this truck in a snowy setting and run over their manager.

[zillee]

I think that I would agree with what xita said on one of the previous pages, a lot of youngsters will be all over music like this its designed for their market after all, which is why many won't see the exploitative nature of this group. Most if not all manufactured pop groups are designed to get the youth demographic to part with their cash, they are a lucrative market after all. Many pop groups aren't interested in reaching people with a message most don't even write their own songs, the pop industry is about entertainment at the end of the day. Not that I am slagging off Pop music because some of it is great (I have a particular fondness for Kylie!) but it isn't the most intelligent form of music around. If you want messages and political statements listen to the Manics and thats just one band I could name who really believe in messages through music there are many more!



Zil

Try it you might like it but you might smudge your lipstick - Jarvis Cocker - your sisters clothes

[tommo]

Yeah, zillee. I was having a conversation about pop music just the other day, and with music buyers getting younger, with more expendable cash to spend on singles, the music market is really quite ruthless in whom they choose to target. And I find the type of songs and lyrics and, especially, imagery, associated with pop veers more towards the sexual, rather than a qualitative focus on music. Tatu, or rather, their manager, have exploited this to an extreme degree.

You're twisting my melons man,
you know you talk so hip man you're twisting my melons man.
Call the cops!

[atse28]

I just heard that TATU got married to each other???



Anyone else hear this?



edit: sorry news was misinformed. Here's an article.

Quote:

---

NEW YORK (T.A.T.U. Fans Website) - Sometimes being a member of Russia's top lesbian lolita pop act is harder than it looks. t.A.T.u. have been making some enemies on the late night talk show circuit.

First, they got in trouble for kissing during their performance on the Tonight Show after their management had assured producers that they wouldn't.

Next, they angered producers of the Jimmy Kimmel Live show when they didn't kiss during their performance. Kimmel's producers also complained that the girls had lip-synched instead of singing live, saying, "t.A.T.u. must be Russian for 'Milli Vanilli.'"



According the rumors, Julia Volkova and Lena Katina of t.A.T.u. are planning to get married in an underwater ceremony in Holland.

---

Edited by: atse28  at: 4/14/03 5:30:46 am

[tommo]

Heh, so they get criticised for kissing and then criticised for not kissing? It seems that the public isn't entirely sure of what it wants half the time. That's an odd message to be giving, I think.



As for the marriage thing, I'll be surprised if that's not a publicity stunt. The shame of the matter is, that a pop group whose entire reputation is built around "are they or aren't they?" speculation means that if this is for real, then it's difficult to see it as anything other than a call for publicity. Given the comments of their manager, and the hype surrounding Tatu, it's hard to believe that anything about them isn't fabricated for the purposes of making money.

I was being patient, but it took too long. I mean, I miss Buffy, I do. But life shouldn't just stop because she's gone.

[LostWithoutTara]

Tatu are a complete money spinner, but their unashamed displays of their sexuality (or non-sexuality, as it may be) may aid some people struggling with coming out as much as it may denounce real loving relationships between two women.



Ironically, there's a track on their album called 'Malchik Gay' (Gay Boy) which is about supposed lesbians falling in love with a gay guy. Try and get your head around that one!

[atse28]

I agree, I wouldn't believe anything that was stated about these two at all.



Its a shame that they've become manipulated like so.



But in any event, at least they may be role models for younger women who are questioning their sexuality. Its the rest of the fabrication that is hard to swallow.

---

Unofficially, I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about...


Officially?

[tommo]

I think the idea of them becoming role models is the notion that bothers me the most. How can they be role models for young girls when everything about them is manufactured, even their sexuality, which is dubious at best? That's not the sort of role model I would choose for any young girls questioning their sexuality.

I was being patient, but it took too long. I mean, I miss Buffy, I do. But life shouldn't just stop because she's gone.

[atse28]

Quote:

---

I think the idea of them becoming role models is the notion that bothers me the most. How can they be role models for young girls when everything about them is manufactured, even their sexuality, which is dubious at best? That's not the sort of role model I would choose for any young girls questioning their sexuality.

---

They've become role models simply for the fact of the publicity they've had. Role models don't have to be bonafide.



I think its the only possible upside you can possibly get from all this. I don't disagree the manufacturing is wrong but I don't know of any younger role models that young females (and males) can look up to and say yes its okay to be questioning your sexuality at fourteen or whatever.



Just my two cents anyway.

---

Unofficially, I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about...


Officially?

[tommo]

Well I suppose that all depends on where you live. In the UK, I think that society is generally more permissive when it comes to young people questioning their sexuality, and it's been dealt with in a couple of children's programmes. It might not be providing role models, per se, but it does point towards a growing awareness that these are the issues young people face. When it's done sensitively, then sure, role model away, heh heh. But I can't take Tatu seriously, because their whole career is built on hype and the predilictions of older men. So what's the lesson from that? It's okay to be a schoolgirl lesbian but be prepared for middle-aged men to drool over you?



I think there are more positive ways of reinforcing sexuality, and I've seen them happen here. I can't and won't ever see Tatu as being contributory towards that. And I'm not sure about role models not having to be bona fide. What did you mean by that, exactly?

I was being patient, but it took too long. I mean, I miss Buffy, I do. But life shouldn't just stop because she's gone.

Edited by: tommo at: 4/15/03 7:25:30 am

[LostWithoutTara]

Role models not being bona fide?



I think that for role models to really work they need to be genuine. People may look at Tatu and see that these girls aren't afraid to kiss each other etc. Even though it's a hoax, that could be beneficial.



But the problem of middle-aged men letching over f/f relationships is much more widespread. The media in general seems to exploit lesbian relationships as much as possible for ratings and also simply because people are more accepting of two women together. said that during planning for S4 he didn't know whether Xander or Willow would be gay. Hardly surprising he chose Willow. Amber and Tara got such grief after 'New Moon Rising' - can you imagine what things would have been like if it had been Xander and another man?

Edited by: LostWithoutTara at: 4/15/03 10:16:37 am

[xita]

I've stated my feelings abotu TATU in the past. I think in the long run their legacy is not a positive one, certainly not for the cause of gay rights and the attitudes of people towards gay people. However, I can't argue that they don't provide some kind of role modeling for young questioning people. At that age I know I certainly grabbed on to anything. As bas as Personal Best and My Two Loves were, they provided me with at least a vision of 2 women together. Both movies ended terribly but it was something and at that age it meant the world to me. If you are looking for that message (it's ok to love a girl), then certainly TATU will give you that. I just don't think that's the message the wider audience in general is getting. They see the titalation and the dishonest presentation of it. And that's where I worry the damage comes from.



I think TATU fans should encourage the girls to pursue their own goals dreams and not their manager's, but just be wary that it may be heterosexual dreams.

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