A question about WICCA

[Laurana]

firstly i have to say that this board seems to be pretty cool and very interesting!(i have just registered).
secondly i have to apologize my (more or less) brilliant english (i'm from germany).
after having checked this i want to come to the main point.
i've been interested and occupying with WICCA for about 2 months and i am totally fascinated with the phrase "AN YE HARM NONE;DO WHAT YE WILL",which seems to me the most logical and wise precept i've ever read .
BUT:
i've also read about wiccan people who say that "wiccan are everyday people like you and me..."
and things like "we also are employed and driving cars,like you and me.."and so on..
and THAT'S the first point.
i don't want to be mean in my first posting here in any way but this question burns inside of me.
doesn't "being such a normal person" controvert the wiccan rede?
how can you live in the "average" American or like in my case North-european standards without harming anyone?
even if you don't drive a car (like me,didn't manage to get some driving lessons yet) and are a vegetarian?
to exactely fullfill that law,you would have to live somewhere in your own-built-house in front of your corn(or whatever)-field and everyday go hunting wild animals or at least collecting berries and stuff just to survive.
and when there are some people in your sorroundings,they are are called mad or
eremits and so on.
ok,enough of this,i just thought that this board was where i could find some people with whom i can talk about things like that,and i would happy about that.because i'm really interested in the "wiccan way of thinking about things",and i'd desired to learn more about that whole thing.
hope some of you guys understand me in having such thoughts sometimes and are ready to coversate a little about that.
allright,school's gonna start in about 4 hours i think i'll rather go get my beauty-sleep.
and,of course:
W/T DO ROCK!!!

[Ryath]

That's a very valid question you bring up.

I'm a practicing Wiccan, and I struggle with that question.

This is the way I have to think about it. As Wiccans, we constantly strive to be aware of thing we can do to be the best people we can be. Of course, by the Rede we strive to never intentionally harm anything, including ourselves. But part of that journey is also becoming aware of the harm we do unintentionally.

In some ways, it's impossible to avoid at times, I think. But the fact that we try hard to understand, realize and stop bad habits that harm others is an example of living by the Rede, in my opinion. I suppose if it really is impossible to in some cases, we just work hard to maintain the balance. If we do drive cars, we make sure that we plant some trees during the summer.

Don't forget, we work with energy, and energy is constantly recycled, reused and renewed. Take if you must, but always give back in some way. Honour what's around you, and it will take care of you. Cheesy, but it's true.

Don't take what I say to be all truth or anything..everyone has their own interpretations. And like I said..I'm still putting all the pieces together myself

Anyone else?

[This message has been edited by Ryath (edited March 17, 2002).]

[Wiccagrrl]

Yes, it's impossible to live in this world without ever causing any harm. But it is something we strive for as much as possible. And the point, I've always felt, is to be aware of how your actions affect others and do your best to weigh the consequences.

[Ryath]

Short but sweet. I like.

[confessedlurker]

First I wanna say that I'm also intrested in the wicca religion. Not quite sure if that's the way to call it, since I speak spanish and even though I'm intrested, I haven't found a lot of information. So if anyone can tell me of some good web sites or books, I would be grately apreciatted.

Anyway, the reason why I posted here (I'm usually just a lurker) is this:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryath:

Don't forget, we work with energy, and energy is constantly recycled, reused and renewed. Take if you must, but always give back in some way. Honour what's around you, and it will take care of you. Cheesy, but it's true.

---

Just wanna said that's not cheesy, but a beautiful way to live. And taking how the world is right now, something that everyone should consider. (Now, I did sound cheesy )

quote:

[The Next Tara Maclay]

I'm intrested in Wicca, But..I dont think my mom would let me ..be or do Wicca...

[mellowstrung]

If you're looking for books I recommend anything by Scott Cunningham. A lot of practitioners out there think that there is only one way to practice the Craft and Mr. Cunnungham never pushed that aspect. The Wiccan Reede is just a different version of the same thing that most other religons claim to live by. Peace, love, and understanding. I have practiced my own version of the craft for almost fourteen years. You eventually find what is comfortable and works for you. I firmly believe that there is no right or wrong way to practice the Craft. Well, I don't agree with the dark arts even though I do consider it part of the Craft. Some people think that magick is crap and for those people it always will be. You have to faith in yourself and the natural world around you in order to manifest your goals. Energy is life and life is love. Spread it around.

[Willowhand]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Next Tara Maclay:
I'm intrested in Wicca, But..I dont think my mom would let me ..be or do Wicca...

---

Ditto. I've always been interested in Wicca, but I'm not sure what my mother would think.quote:

[Ryath]

quote:

---

Originally posted by confessedlurker:
First I wanna say that I'm also intrested in the wicca religion. Not quite sure if that's the way to call it, since I speak spanish and even though I'm intrested, I haven't found a lot of information. So if anyone can tell me of some good web sites or books, I would be grately apreciatted.

Anyway, the reason why I posted here (I'm usually just a lurker) is this:
Just wanna said that's not cheesy, but a beautiful way to live. And taking how the world is right now, something that everyone should consider. (Now, I did sound cheesy )

---

Thanks Lurker It's nice to hear someone say that.

For Information:

I would have to second Mellowstrung and say..Scott Cunningham "Wicca: A guide for the Solitary Practitioner" is a GREAT Start. He gives you the basics and lets you form what you want with them.

I would also recommend www.allwitch.com. Lots of info, PLUS an AWESOME message board.
They'll answer anything for you, and you won't feel stupid. Nobody gets mean on that board that I've seen!

Also, IK believe there's witchvox.net. That site is FILLED with info..though it can get a bit overwhelming. They have a good starter section.

TNTaraMacLay and Willowhand - A special aside for you: I know it's hard when your family doesn't agree with your spiritual beliefs. Sometimes it helps to talk to people with the same interests. Wicca need not be something you tell to everyone. There's no "shame" in hiding it, just as there is no shame in being proud about it...you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

All I can say is read read read, and interact with people who read as well Knowledge is very important in Wicca. And when you read, read critically. Don't take what anyone says as the only truth. And if it isn't your path, then so be it! If so..well...you'll have a good basic start.

mellowstrung - I like your words, and I wholeheartedly agree.

[This message has been edited by Ryath (edited March 18, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Ryath (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[Web Warlock]

Allwitch.com is a very good site, but it is not the only one. Ryath also mentions WitchVox, also known as the Witches Voice, and it can be found at http://www.witchvox.com. WitchVox is a great place to start and connect with others.

Unlike other religions, Wicca does not attempt to convert others to their way of beliefs. You are always invited to learn and join if you wish, but no one is ever going to twist your arm and tell you what you have to believe.

Just remember, wicca as portrayed on BtVS has little to do with Wicca the religion. Though the writers of the show do not really show anything that is out and out contradictory.

As Ryath said, knowledge is very important. There are always many books in your local library. I like some of the ones from Llewellyn Press. A few of my favorites are,

Guiley, Rosemary Ellen. (1999). The Encyclopedia of Witches and Witchcraft: Second Edition. Checkmark Books: New York. ISBN 0-8160-3848-1

Grimassi, Raven (2000). Encyclopedia of Wicca & Witchcraft. Llewllyn Publications: St. Paul, MN. ISBN: 1-56718-257-7

K., Amber (1998). Covencraft, witchcraft for 3 or more, 528 pages. Llewellyn Publications: St. Paul, MN. ISBN 1-56718-018-3

Ravenwolf, Silver. (1999). To Ride a Silver Broomstick: New Generation Witchcraft. 14th Printing. Llewellyn Publications: St. Paul, MN. ISBN: 0-87542-791-X

Though I know some people do not care Silver Ravenwolf, I find she puts a very “natural” face on witchcraft/Wicca. Depending on your age, you also might want to check out her “Teen Witch” book. I have never read it myself and I have heard she does talk down a bit to teens as if they were little kids.

When talking to others, including parents, remember that like most religions, Wicca is about finding ones place in the universe in relationship to the divine and to others. It is not about Satanism, animal sacrifice, or any of the other “Hollywood” horror stories. They can’t show you how to cast spells of revenge, or make some one love you against their will.

For the record. I myself am not a Wicca, or a pagan. I am someone who has done a lot of reading and research on the subject (say for the past 20 years) and I have a lot of respect for their beliefs, even if I do not personally share them. I have yet to meet a Wicca that was not a good and intelligent person, thought I am sure there are exceptions (there always are exceptions!).

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

[Ryath]

Web Warlock,

A very informative post! Thanks for clearing up a few common myths about Wicca as well.

Just wondering...have you been studying other religions too?

[Willowhand]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryath:

TNTaraMacLay and Willowhand - A special aside for you: I know it's hard when your family doesn't agree with your spiritual beliefs. Sometimes it helps to talk to people with the same interests. Wicca need not be something you tell to everyone. There's no "shame" in hiding it, just as there is no shame in being proud about it...you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

All I can say is read read read, and interact with people who read as well Knowledge is very important in Wicca. And when you read, read critically. Don't take what anyone says as the only truth. And if it isn't your path, then so be it! If so..well...you'll have a good basic start.

---

Thank you for the advice. I'll definately read up on it, and talk to others. It's nice to find people to talk to about this stuff.quote:

[Ryath]

My pleasure. I'm always open to talk, if you need to!

[Web Warlock]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryath:

Web Warlock,

A very informative post! Thanks for clearing up a few common myths about Wicca as well.

Just wondering...have you been studying other religions too?

---

Thanks.

Yeah I studied satanists for a while. What a bunch of idiots they are. And I studied scientologists. My opionion of them is best left censored.
But I am full open about my affecton for wicca and witchcraft.

For a while there I wanted to be a cult deprogrammer. You know use that psych degree for something good. But their is no money or future there.

Mostly my studies are occult related. So I know about Kabalah, Hermetics, Rosicrucians, various pagan religions, love druids, demonology, and I enjoy reading about ancient religions such as Zorasterism.

It beats being obsessed with porn.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.quote:

[AmberBensonFan]

Okay, I have two questions here.

1) Has anyone looked into or know how the show exploring Wicca has effected the Wiccan population already out there? Has there been an influx of people joining the religion or at least looking into it more seriously now that it has been portrayed in a more serious light on Buffy?

2) I'm a firm believer that the mind is an extremely powerful thing, both consciously and subconsciously. I feel that if someone believes in something so strongly and with devote focus, they can do just about anything. Perhaps it's because someone so focused is able to look past the facade that we've generated in our minds and can see things clearly as they are in some quatum-physic level, who knows. But does that translate to "magick?" Can becoming so focused on chats or spells generate the desired effect? Example: Can a person casting a spell to close the blinds in their room really get the blinds to close without physically touching them? Perhaps this is a bit naive of me, perhaps I'm hoping to find faith in a world that has disillusioned me, who knows.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks gang.

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Joining in the chorus of people pissed at Joss.

Mega Wi(t)ches site:
www.megawitches.net - Will be up shortly
Enlightened Member #243, BHS Member #70, Fragile member #308

"Hey, Giles. Sharp wheels." - Will
"The rest of the car's nice too" - Tara (Real Me)

"Besides, when is there any us two. You two are the two who were the two. I'm the other one." - Will (Yoko Factor)

"A doodle. I do doodle. You too. You do doodle too." Will (Gingerbread)

[Ryath]

Two answeres:

Web Warlock - That is SO cool. I've met so few people who have taken the time to actually look through all the different religions. Most of them are very beautiful and exciting. I wish that religions had an easier time getting along though. But education is the key.

amberbensonfan: I would say that Buffy has shown a lot of people that Wicca exists and is a religion, but anyone who thinks Wicca is what is portrayed on Buffy is sadly mistaken. Remember that whole scene in...I think it was Hush, when Willow and Tara got angry at the group for not wanting to do spells, and instead, wanting to plant trees and do fundraisers? This is actually a really funny scene, because in reality, it's the EXACT opposite. The Wiccans who just want to do spells are considered people who don't really know what Wicca is all about.

Now..the "blinds" question. I'll use blinds as my example for this question: No, I don't think it's possible for you to magick the blinds to get them to shut. Magick is influencing energy. You might cast a spell that influences the energy around you to somehow close the blinds. Usually, the magick happens in kind of an indirect way, like: your mother comes into your room and closes your blinds. Or a gust of winds comes through the window and smooshes up the blinds so it blocks out the light. Stuff like this happens all the time.

I believe that we can do anything we put our mind to as well. I just think it happens a little more indirectly then the magick on buffy.

[Kath]

A good pagan/wiccan messgae board is at www.inthemist.org/forum

[WiccansIllusion]

You could ask the same about any religion
It's in the ten commandments, in the baghavad gita ( please forgive the spelling) in the tao te ching, the old testament, anything really. How do we know we're not harming an ant the minute we step outside our doors, how often have we lied when we go out for the night and disoby our parents ie hurting them. I think you have to narrow down the question some:
Harm None, Do What Thou Wilt
meaning that you don't murder, or rape and pillage, or to cast against another without expecting consequences.

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My heart is cleaver than I am and it knows what to do. ~MC 'Legends of the Kiss'

[Peapod]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Next Tara Maclay:
I'm intrested in Wicca, But..I dont think my mom would let me ..be or do Wicca...

---

Wicca is just a religion, a way of life. It's not just spells and magick. I think if you explain to your mom, that you are not going to worship the devil she might be cool with it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Web Warlock:

Though I know some people do not care Silver Ravenwolf, I find she puts a very “natural” face on witchcraft/Wicca. Depending on your age, you also might want to check out her “Teen Witch” book. I have never read it myself and I have heard she does talk down a bit to teens as if they were little kids.

Warlock

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I have read the book Teen witch and it told the basics of Wicca, but I mostly have really old books that I found at Garage sales.

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:quote:

[Dazey]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Web Warlock:
I enjoy reading about ancient religions such as Zorasterism.

---

Zoroastrianism is indeed an ancient religion. It predates and heavily influenced the development of Judaism (and through Judaism, Christianity and Islam). However, in case anyone should infer from your statement that it is no longer practiced, I wanted to point out that about 140,000 people are adherents of this faith, mostly in Iran.

Regarding Wicca, in addition to the books listed above I always recommend that people read Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon for a clear-eyed look at the history and development of modern Pagan religions. It's been several years since I read it and I'm not sure if it's been revised recently, but it dispels many of the myths that have arisen concerning the origins of Paganism, and is refreshingly free of the saccharine, "sparkly fairies and unicorns"-type prose that mars so many of the introductory texts aimed at a youth audience.

Know your history, no matter what faith you are.

[This message has been edited by Dazey (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[wiltar]

Wow, this thread is a revelation!

I am another person who is interested in wicca... the appreciation that seems to speak from this religion just sounds beautiful... appreciation for nature, for life itself.

My mum would NEVER allow me to be a wiccan, but that doesn't mean I can't be wiccan... I'm almost an adult, and moving out asap. I do have 1 little problem: I don't know how to 'start' and I know of nothing or nobody over here (The Netherlands) to who I could go for help. I feel like you people are helping me out now though. So thanks, i'm gonna look into this, and see how everything will progress.

*edited to change something after being told I was about to call myself a religion Sorry about that. You read it wrong often in fanfics, so I wasn't sure whether it was 'be a wicca' or 'be a wiccan'

Patricia

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"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[This message has been edited by wiltar (edited March 19, 2002).]

[Laurana]

at first i wanna thank you guys for that comprehensive answers!!!!
Patricia:
i think there is not really something like a "starting point".
i cannot really speak out from experience-
i am only at the beginning,too!!!
i would say that you have already started being WICCA,as you have started seriousely occupying with that subject.
this is my point of view,and i'd liked to share some knowledge and experience about things like that with you,
because i think we're kind of "on the same level"
bye

[Peapod]

My mom is really cool with me being a wicca, and she was even thinking about becoming one herself. My dad did too. I have a weird family.

[Wiccagrrl]

Minor point, but one I feel compelled to point out In general, Wicca is the religion. One can't *be* Wicca or a Wicca. A person is Wiccan or a Wiccan (or often just a Witch). Calling someone a Wicca is sort of like saying someone is a Christianity.

The only place I've heard Wicca used to describe a person is on Buffy and by extention in Buffy fandom. And yeah, I use it myself sometimes (referring to Willow as a "Bad Ass Wicca"- a phrase she has used herself.) But if you're actually interested in real life Wicca, just a tidbit you should probably know.

Oh, and I'll repeat what others here have said. Read, read, read. Talk to people. Learn as much as you can. And take a lot of what you hear with a whole bucket of salt.

[Web Warlock]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dazey:
Zoroastrianism is indeed an ancient religion. It predates and heavily influenced the development of Judaism (and through Judaism, Christianity and Islam). However, in case anyone should infer from your statement that it is no longer practiced, I wanted to point out that about 140,000 people are adherents of this faith, mostly in Iran.

---

One of my all time favorite people, Freddie Mercury (real name Farouk Basara), lead singer of Queen (one of my all time favorite groups) was a practioner of Zoroastrianism. It is a really fascinating read. Anyone who considers themselves Christian, Jewish or Muslim, should read it.

quote:

---

Regarding Wicca, in addition to the books listed above I always recommend that people read Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon for a clear-eyed look at the history and development of modern Pagan religions. It's been several years since I read it and I'm not sure if it's been revised recently, but it dispels many of the myths that have arisen concerning the origins of Paganism, and is refreshingly free of the saccharine, "sparkly fairies and unicorns"-type prose that mars so many of the introductory texts aimed at a youth audience.

---

Drawing down the Moon is a fantistic read, but I find it is a bit much for beginners. I first picked it up in the mid 80s and found a lot of the information to be a tad overwhelming. I just recently reread it and it is a clear guide, but not a small one! It does dispel some of the wicca myths. Such as it being very acient. In is in fact only 50 years old, but it has roots in much older practices.

The best thing you do as a student of any religion is discover it's roots. Like Dazey said, know your history, no matter what faith you are.

Wicca vs. Wiccan. I actually have seen both forms used in various books. Of course there are those that drop the 'a' in favor of an 'e', since phonologically speaking, "wicca" designates a male while "wicce" designates a female. Of course many traditions can not agree on whether to use "witch" or not.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.quote:quote:

[Wiccagrrl]

quote:

---

Wicca vs. Wiccan. I actually have seen both forms used in various books. Of course there are those that drop the 'a' in favor of an 'e', since phonologically speaking, "wicca" designates a male while "wicce" designates a female. Of course many traditions can not agree on whether to use "witch" or not.

---

There probably are people who use it that way. Don't really remember many examples off the top of my head- can think of cases where I've seen things like "One of the Wicca (Wicce)" or "Member of the Wicca". And language is so fluid. Even if it wasn't common usage before Buffy, it may become more common now.

One thing I have learned over the years- there is very little unanimity among Wiccans. Old joke that if you ask two Witches a question, you'll get three different opinions
quote:

[Web Warlock]

Tim’s top ten tips to understanding your religious need and staying away from dangergous cults.

I am going to come out from behind my net-personality to offer some advice to anyone looking into any type of new religion. Be it Wicca, Buddhism, TM, Catholicism, or just about anything else. If I am offering it, you should at least know where it is comming from.

My name is Tim Brannan and I have studied cults and cult practices for the better part of 20 years. I have a Ph.D. in Education and Psychology. On top of that I am a father and this is the advice I plan to give my own son.

I am not advising anyone to run off and join a new religion. Nor do I advocate one religion over the other. Your needs are unique to you and only you can answer them. What I can do is give you advice on making the best judgements.

NOTE: I use the word Cult in here a some palces. That is not to imply every mainstream or fringe religion is a dangerous cult. It simplly is a way to draw your attention. Remember a cult will never say "hey I am a cult!".

1. Be Honest.
Short and simple, but there is a reason why it is first. You must be honest. Not only to yourself but to those around you. This includes parents, friends, and the people you are wishing to make a religious contention to. Parents are surprisingly intelligent people. They got you this far. Talk to them about your need and the steps you want to go to have that need answered. Ask them for their help. They used to be just like you in many respects and maybe they can provide you with an insight that only age and wisdom can give.

2. Be Aware.
Second is to be aware of what is going on. There are a lot of cults that pass themselves off as something else. You might be interested in that something else, but not what this group has to offer. Ask to speak to members, and ask to speak to former members. A group that has no former members, or can’t find any for you is one to be wary of. Former members can be ‘former’ for many reasons, if their needs were/are like yours and they were not met, maybe your’s will not either. Or maybe they can confirm for you that this is the group for you.

3. Understand what they offer.
A religion should help you become closer to the divine, the spirits, the world or something. Be sure that what they are offering or teaching is a good match for your spiritual needs. Research the group.

4. What are they hiding?
Anyone can get a copy of the Bible for free. They have them in hotel rooms and the Gideons expect you to take it. Any church will let you read their texts. The Mormons will send you their book for free. Go to any mosque and ask to know more and someone will give you a copy of the Q’aran. Jews will let you read a Torah. Taoist, Shintoist and Buddhists will give you copies of their religious texts or let you know which ones you can buy on Amazon. Wiccans will go on (and on and on! ) about which are their favorite books. Why? Because they know that a true religion can’t hide in secrets. Do they have them. Yes. But the bulk of their beliefs are out there for you to read independently. If you find a religion make sure that what they do is out in the open. Beware of secrets or secret agendas. Especially if you are told not to share these with others. Most religions want others or at the very least others to understand them.

5. What’s their kink?
A lot of Wicca rituals can be held while sky clad, or nude. But no one in any major Wiccan tradition is going to make you do that if you don’t want to. Respect is the key. If you find a group and you are told that all ceremonies are done in the nude and you better get used to it. They are not about the religion, they are probably about the sex.

6. To Good to be True?
Avoid overly charismatic leaders. Not to say a leader of perfectly good coven can’t be charismatic. But avoid the ones that seem to have a “rock star” attitude about their place in the group. On the same token avoid any one who claims to have direct divine inspiration. It is ok for you to feel the divine working through you. Artists have made this claim for years. I am saying avoid the guy who claims God talks right to him and He has special plans for the group. Usually these are the types that start passing out the grape kool-aid or the matching black Nikes before to long.

7. No one is above the Law.
All religions have laws, rules or codes they follow. But if the leader begins saying he or she is above (or worse transcends) those laws, then it is time to get out. These type usually have the same disregard for man’s laws. That is why any real priest/priestess/minister says “by the power vesting in me by God/Goddess AND the state of ….” during weddings. As a leader they should be expected to better at following the divine and mundane laws than the new members. Members can disagree with laws, Catholics as a rule are not in favor of abortion, but that does not mean they should feel that they are above the law. In fact sometime a group where the members differ on their opinions of a law, human or spiritual, can be a good thing because it can spark debate and discussion. There are pro-choice Catholics and pro-life Dianic Wiccans just as there are the other way around.

8. It’s the End of the World as We Know It.
Avoid any doomsday cult. They are batting Zero right now. These cults are usually a means to separate you from your possessions and reunite said possessions with the cult’s leader. Usually these cults also self-destruct when the end does not come.

9. Avoid Isolation
Stay far away from people that tell you that you can’t have contact with your friends, family or loved ones. Especially if they say that they are your new family now. This follows number 4 above, but is far more dangerous.

10. Pay up or Get out.
Some cults out there have HUGE initiation fees. This is not for things like a ceremonial garment that you might need to wear or a book you might need, and most these places will have something for you borrow or use. Some might have a fee for using their facilities (libraries and the like), but just like at any church you can pass the collection plate down and not put anything into it. Religion is not about money and you should not have to be one of the rich or elite to gain solace. If you are being charged money for your religious experience then you are being had. Get out.

Tim.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 18, 2002).]

[Web Warlock]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wiccagrrl:
One thing I have learned over the years- there is very little unanimity among Wiccans. Old joke that if you ask two Witches a question, you'll get three different opinions

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Yeah I have heard that too! I love that quote and have used it in a lot of my own books on witches.

The one I like is if you ask two witches to define a witch you will get three different answers.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.quote:

[neta]

Tim
Your top ten list is some very good advice, thanks for posting it.

[wiltar]

I too want to thank you Tim. This is a very helpfull top ten, and I will very seriously watch those 10 aspects while 'trying to find my way'

Laurana: I would love to mail/chat with you sometime, I think since we're both pretty much starters it could be very helpfull. Ifd you have msn, you can add me. My addy is wiltar@hotmail.com Of course, you can also mail me at that address!

Patricia
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"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[This message has been edited by wiltar (edited March 19, 2002).]