General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 10

[Ari]

I do find the idea of Will going 'supernova' interesting, though.

I've been doing a lot of hunting for foreshadowing lately and there's this exchange from Smashed:

BUFFY: I know. But I think she'll be fine. This is Willow, she of the level head

ANYA: Those are the ones you have to watch out for the most. Responsible types.

BUFFY: Right. Cause they might go all crazy and start alphabetizing everything.

ANYA: I'm serious. Responsible people try so hard to be good all the time. When they get a taste of being bad, they can't get enough. It's like.. kablooey!

BUFFY: That's not true..

ANYA: Okay, not kablooey. More like BAM!

XANDER: It is human nature, Buff. Will's getting a taste of something powerful. Way bigger than her.

ANYA: She was getting out of control with it before Tara left. And now that she's gone...

XANDER: It must be seductive, just to give in to it. Go totally wild. We need to keep an eye on her.

Also, the idea of Sunnydale starting to resemble Hell is something that's been foreshadowed a few times as well.

It's hard to know what to make of all this.

Edited to add: Also, if what happens is essentially everyone backsliding even further into the worst habits from this season, only intensified, then the idea of Buffy asking Giles to deal with Dawn would be consistent with that as well.

I think I need a break. This is starting to give me a headache.

Ari

[This message has been edited by Ari (edited March 18, 2002).]

[sassyeggs]

I'm beginning to give credence to the whole idea of a reset/alternate reality. One of the most popular episodes ever was Dopplegangland. Everyone loves to see the Scoobies do things that would not normally happen (Willow as a vamp, Spike is bad again, etc.). I just want to figure out how Tara fits into all of this. Joss doesn't just arbitrarily pick a character and say "Uh, they'll be in danger." particularly if it's redundant of last season's finale. I think my fear of Tara dying is slowly being replaced by an excitement of seeing how it will all play out. Contingent, of course, upon her survival. (And, please, not in Joyce/Jenny flashback form. That doesn't count, ME!)

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This is a dumb world. In my world there are people in chains, and we can ride them like ponies.

[EvilAnya]

Ed--thanks for understanding the skeptisism, if you're telling the truth and are fairly sure that this is how it will play out then thanks for posting the info, however, if you're just messing with us for fun, i hope you step in dog poo. But really, no hard feelings

[wiccie]

Bev, sorry if I sounded harsh. Here's a quick summary of stuff that's been hashed out as pertaining to your ideas.

We've had lots of spoilers saying that Anya takes D'Hoffryn's offer to become a VD/JD, plus Halfrek's still around, too.

We have had *no* reliable spoilers - only fan speculation - that Willow becomes a Vengeance Demon.

We have lots of spoilers from both reliable and unknown sources that Willow goes all Big Baddie with Darke Magic. From the spoilers, Dark Willow is plenty bad enough w/o also being made a demon.

So, no reason or evidence that Willow would be made a demon.

*This message brought to you by The Department of Redundancy Department, with generous support from the General Spoiler Thread Foundation*

[The Big I-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ed The Spoiler:
I will say that my source is not a script... and I will relent that I may be wrong on a couple of small points (or rather when they transpire) but I am adament about the direction the show is going.

---

Actually, Ed, I think you implied in one of your previous posts that your information was more by way of "discussions" that occurred leading up to the actual writing of the scripts. So it probably isn't a pre-requisite to your being more-or-less right about the general direction of the storyline(s) that you be 100% bang on with your predictions. Lord knows those scripts can go through a helluva lot of re-writing and massaging before they're deemed "done" -- i.e., "Hells Bells."

Still...until more concrete "clues" reveal themselves, I guess we all have to attempt to protect our rather fragile psyches and hearts by clinging to a large measure of skepticism. No bad feelings, though, because I have the sense that your intentions are more sincere than trollish.

--jr

quote:

[Bev]

quote:

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Originally posted by wiccie:
Bev, sorry if I sounded harsh. Here's a quick summary of stuff that's been hashed out as pertaining to your ideas.

---

Thanks for the recap. My head was spinning!

Since we don't know what is true/false yet with surrounding circumstances...

Ooh, head STILL spinning...

[This message has been edited by Bev (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[Willowlicious]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ari:
I do find the idea of Will going 'supernova' interesting, though.

I've been doing a lot of hunting for foreshadowing lately

---

I've been assuming the whole time that Willow would go 'poof!' at some point during this scenario, but I hadn't considered her going 'supernova' and taking half of Sunnydale with her. However, as I posted in my original list of foreshadows in the previous thread, Anya did allude to the destruction of Sunnydale in a throw-away line from "As You Were":

ANYA: No! I've been through too much planning this wedding, and it is *going* to happen. It is going to be our perfect, perfect day if I have to kill every one of our guests and half this town to do it.

Well, if it is her spell that causes things to go awry and Willow to go supernova, I guess that Anya made good on her threat. Except, it didn't make the wedding go through, it happened because the wedding didn't go through. Vengeance. Sigh.

Anyway, who knows if that even happens. If your spoilers are true or mostly true, Ed, thanks. If not, well...I'm reserving all judgement of Ed, the season and of ME until we have something much more concrete.

Amyquote:

[willowtarasandwich]

Hi Ed the Spoiler.

Interesting to read what you have to say.

Can I make a few comments and suggestions?

First, can you register? Otherwise, how do we know you're the same Ed the Spoiler as we heard from last week? If you register, you then record your email address with the mods, and we all know future mails are from you.

Second, after registering, ask one of the mods to email you. Then, in reply let them know some measure of why they should believe your spoilers. I know they will treat anything you send in confidence, and they could then (like with AngelX etc) inform the board as to your credibility.

I have been reading these messages for a few weeks now, and from the events of 10 days ago I have seen that many people are absolutely devastated by what MIGHT happen to Tara and Willow.

To build-up false hopes (if that is what you are doing) is so cruel that it defies belief - you would deserve a visit from black-eyed Willow yourself.

But, if you are genuine and right - then you deserve to be the filling in any Willow and Tara sandwich!

So please, Ed, give us some hard evidence - and thanks for your understanding of how we feel.

[Popje]

Rupertzgirl has a great post over at C&S that I think is great in discussing alternate reality/dimension theories. Made a lot of sense to me and covers to me the "reset" option in a way that I think ME would go, without cheating the "grow up" theme. http://www.voy.com/13746/102173.html

[TarotX]

I so want these spoilers to be true. I know they sound like wishes from at least over half of the fan base so they are more then likely won't materialize.

This way the season ends without us knowing where we go from here because we have no idea exactly where the reset happens or what because a reset can't happen exactly without Anya being there. We can't have the whole big badness occur with a reset without major consequences for at least 2 of our Scoobies (If Anya dies it's Her and Xander).

I want Spike to turn Dawn sooooooooooo bad. I want Spike to be all evil. But since I want it so bad it won't happen.

But the point of the show can't be for Willow to go evil while Spike gets to be redeemed. Willow is our friend and has been for 6 year. Spike is a member of what we have been afraid of those 6 years. We would rather keep our friends then have a sexy evil thing be redeemed. Friends stand by each other and fight for them. We will stand by Willow and bring her back to us.

I'm a core Scoobie shipper you might say. I love our 4 original heros. There has got to be a way to save Willow. Tara too but for her death be so that Willow snaps is just wrong. Especially if Spike is there to help defeat her!!

[Web Warlock]

RE: Ed's new information.

I am willing to overlook minor inconsistancies in the scripts (the writers themselves seem to have no problem with that!) and the reports.

I am going to cling to Ed's news because a screwed up as it sounds, it gives me hope.

Whether Ed is right or not, will remain to be seen. But the deal is this to me. He comes here (I feel) because he knows what what we are feeling. And he is not telling us "this is the way it is, get over it!"

Now do we have to go the WHOLE FRIGGIN' SUMMER before we really know what happens?

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 18, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 18, 2002).]

[jessan15]

Yo ED!

skeptisim aside, I love the concept...all of them actually. I for one can honestly say, if this is how things turn out, I will be drinking myself into oblivion for a good reason for a change.

Oh, and if you are full of it, I'm sure I'll write a nasty post at the end of May.

You go baby.

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Love will find a way.

[TarotX]

I just realized that all of these events are marked for 18-21. Is it a typeo? Because I would hate for Buffy to destroy Sunnydale and wake up in the institution-healthy!!

I remember that there were rumors going around earlier about a cross over season finale kind of like restless. If Buffy wakes up and all her "creations" were there-it would be interesting but horrible!!!

[Ari]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Willowlicious:
I've been assuming the whole time that Willow would go 'poof!' at some point during this scenario, but I hadn't considered her going 'supernova' and taking half of Sunnydale with her. However, as I posted in my original list of foreshadows in the previous thread, Anya did allude to the destruction of Sunnydale in a throw-away line from "As You Were":

---

Oh yeah, that's another good one. And I'm in the same boat. I was also expecting Willow to be destroyed. I just wasn't counting on that kind of - scale, I guess.

There's also the line about how they might be in a Hell dimension.

That's the thing that makes it so hard to dismiss Ed's scenerio. It does fit in awfully well with a great deal of foreshadowing and themes from the season.

Ariquote:

[drlloyd11]

Hey Wiccie, I replied to your email and it bounced! hellpp!!
Oh, and send more smut

quote:

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Originally posted by wiccie:
*This message brought to you by The Department of Redundancy Department, with generous support from the General Spoiler Thread Foundation*

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quote:

[xita]

Actually through IP we can know and that was indeed Ed. We'd let you guys know if someone was pretending to be ed.

I want to hope, and this gives me hope. We will all just have to wait and see.

[wiccie]

D'oh! Dr.lloyd, try sending to:

dana_cory@yahoo.com

And we can talk about spoilers and smut.

edited to reply to Scout -

Ed's spoilers say that Xander is "bleeding to death" - not already dead like everybody else - and *that* is when Anya(nka) resets/reverses that world.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 18, 2002).]

[Scout]

Re: Ed - Xander doesn't die. Amber said that in her interview.

But I have to admit that the ‘Spike turning Dawn’ suggestion made my day. I know it’s sick, but this show has become so depressing that I need to get my kicks somewhere. heh heh

[Popje]

Willow stuff sounds very Dark Phoenix - for those X-Men comic afficianados out there.

[BBOvenGuy]

Count me among the Ed skeptics. Some of what he says doesn't match up with what we have for Episodes 18 and 20. Granted, that doesn't necessarily mean the overall flow of the remaining episodes won't be like what Ed is saying, though. I'd just like to have a little more information available before I become a believer.

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that the season won't end on a cliffhanger. If we do get a reset, there will be time afterwards for our characters to react to what they've been through and tie up any remaining loose ends. The Buffy season finale has always been done in a way so that it could work as a series finale if necessary.

And I must say, even though a scenario like this will give us Willow and Tara together again, I still might not watch it. As I've said before, I've always hated "lets kill everyone and then push the reset button" plots. I may decide just to skip the killing everyone part and pick the show up again in the fall.

[drlloyd11]

Ok, I'm making a habit of this..
Angelx asked me to officialy debunk eds spoilers..

She has looked at them ,and says they are not true..
I'm sorry everyone

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by wiccie:
edited to reply to Scout -

Ed's spoilers say that Xander is "bleeding to death" - not already dead like everybody else - and *that* is when Anya(nka) resets/reverses that world.

---

No, Ed said, "He tells her that he loves her, that she isnt a demon no matter what she looks like and dies. Anya destroys her pendant and the world shifts."

According to that description, Xander is dead when the pendant is broken.

Edited to Add: Thanks to AngelX for checking them out. At least they were fun to read.

[This message has been edited by Scout (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[Sela]

It's time's like these that I wish I was a fly on the wall at ME.

We're back to square one, then? Unless of course, Ed the Spoiler would like to debunk the debunking???

I do trust AngelX. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

--Sela

[dragonfly]

Boy-o-boy are the lurkers coming outta the woodwork! Throwing a few (hopeful if unlikely =) ) thoughts out there.

The more I think about it, the more the whole dead/crazy lesbian cliché thing seems central to what's going on. Instead of shifting the focus away from the cliché, the recent spoilage seems to reveal things which actually reinforce it. The circumstances surrounding Tara’s death for instance. Rather than having it come out that she dies making some brave sacrifice or something even remotely meaningful, we have a pointless and vicious and awful and basically meaningless death involving, importantly, a gun. Searching for something to connect this to, some reason that she has to die brings us full circle to the cliché and the backhanded subversive moral message behind it. Which brings us to the second reinforcement: the spoilage revealing that W/T make with the sweaty snugglebunnies sometime right before this awful thing transpires. The timing just can’t be coincidental.

So it seems to me at least that ME and crew aren’t just dancing around the whole stereotype. They’re invoking it, and doing it in ways that don’t make a whole lot of sense unless it is specifically to bring up the issue. If they decided they really wanted to kill off Tara just to make Willow go evil, they could do it in a way that somehow played into the story more, that gave some indication that she was something more meaningful than a discardable plot device. Really. They’ve already made the point through Joyce that innocent people can die pointless deaths and there’s nothing you can do about it. Why do it all over again, when there’s so much more they could have done? I mean, there’s more to this show that trying to drive its fan base to suicide, right?

This gives me hope, because if there’s one thing we’ve seen, it’s that Joss and crew like to hang clichés and stereotypes up by their kickers on the flagpole and have a good hearty laugh at their expense. If it’s happening, and appears to be being emphasized, then it has to be happening for a reason. It’s gotta be a setup.

Which brings us to the wild speculation. Yay wild speculation!

It (unfortunately) seems pretty unavoidable that we’re going to see this badness played out. Something has to happen to expose it, to turn it on its head, and just saying ‘whoops, it didn’t happen’ isn’t going to be enough. More importantly, redemption for Willow, post-evil and post-Tara, isn’t going to do it either.

The question is then, how to do it? How to both show this thing and to somehow invert it, expose it, point at it and laugh? My current pet theory? Keep an eye on those marauding Justice demons and an attentive ear cocked for someone saying, however jokingly, that they wished life was more like TV/movies. Remember the gun? Where are you most likely to see people getting shot? Anyways, it’s more than a bit unlikely, and it doesn’t take many of the surrounding plots into account, but it’s a reset scenario that at least does something more with what’s happening to W/T than erase it, and it would be beautiful to see ME and crew do something that brought a Hollywood cliché to light and mocked it. Maybe I’m reading too much into all this? I hope not. Besides, with all the ‘it’s really a dream, no wait, it’s really an insane delsusion/AU/ spell that makes things look different’ going on, the one thing we’re really lacking is some good, crunchy deconstructionism.

In any case, here’s to hope.

Cheers,
dragonfly

[Robin]

While reading the last 50 posts my eyes were almost falling out of my head. I should stop myself from visiting the spoilerthread, it's not healthy.
But apart from this aspect, it's damn interesting.

And I'm glad the mods checked who entered calling himself Ed.

[Walker]

Dragonfly, like your thought progression. Register dude, I for one would like to hear more.

[Ed the Spoiler]

I should make one clarification;

I'm not sure Xander dies or not, I know he is dying and I suppose I shouldn't have assumed. The assumption is definitely that he would die, though.

As for being debunked, well, we'll see...

[wiltar]

Ugh...I'm not gonna put all of my hopes on any theories for the finale anymore... makes me WAY too confused. I'll just wait untill I see ep 20, 21 and 22.

However, I do enjoy reading them. So please people, flood me with spoilers and discussion!!!!

Patricia

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"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[BBOvenGuy]

Well, I'm not AnGeL X, but I can tell you which bits contradict the things I've heard:

I haven't heard anything about a "big condition" attached to Anya becoming a vengeance demon again.

I haven't heard about Willow going to Rack for help. What I've heard is that Warren goes to Rack for help against Willow, and Rack refuses.

I've heard Willow catches up with Warren in Episode 20, not 21, and she does kill him. Supposedly that's what they were filming last Thursday and Friday up on the mountain road in Griffith Park.

Those are only the points I know about. Perhaps someone else can come along and provide more.

[anubis]

Just a thought, I watched "Spiral" again yesterday, and what struck me is that things were looking pretty dark at the end of that ep. Tara brainsucked, Giles seriously wounded, Dawn taken by Glory and Buffy catatonic. Which made me think of a script writing class I attended a couple of years ago. One of the *basic* things the teacher mentioned was to throw your viewers between hope and despair - that is, it has to become really, really bad before it can get any better.
That's why I'm hoping that the good will outweigh the bad, and the only way that can be is if Tara is alive and with Willow!