Joan of Arcadia

[Gatito Grande]

Oh, now I know it was a good idea!



GG Must.Remember.Kieli.Is.Married.Damn. Out



Now, see this is how Luke/Grace could be fixed! (Wouldn't Luke look cute on a leash? We already know how Grace looks in leather! )

[Kieli]

ROTFLMFAO! Luke on a leash...oh my god that brough an image...it was kind of...interesting actually Oddly enough, my honey bunny and I are quite tame. Weird because my imagination is apparently not

Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

[Gatito Grande]

[Good to know I can still stimulate sumthin' Kieli ]



Well, tonight was much better: almost a return to S1 form (though nevertheless the shot of Luke holding Grace from behind at the end almost made me hurl ).



Can I say how much I love Glynnis? (Oh, I guess I already have ) "You could give her a bran muffin" (Is there some kind of rule, though, that only one female on this show can have serious attitude at any one time? Cuz I could swear Glynnis piped up w/ Grace's missing 'tude tonight). I'm tempted to say "Make Mageina Tovah a cast member!" but we know what happens w/ that now, don't we?



I like how Adam was dealing w/ Judith, and trying to get Joan to (actually, I like how everyone, in general, is continuing to deal w/ Judith's death, unlike . . . well, I won't go there, of course. ) And I'm just superstitious and paranoid enough (who, me? ) to get Joan's "Judith's dying on our Date Night means that you and me, Adam, are doomed" delusion. So, Adam and Joan talked about Judith: now---if Joan is "debarking from the River in Egypt", maybe they can discuss God some more? (At least it came up a little---long enough for Joan to say she doesn't want to talk about it---but that didn't begin to satisfy)



Yes, Grace looked very nice in a dress and heels . . . just not like Grace (Never.Let.It.Happen.Again. ) Haven't I been saying that all year? And the actress playing Grace's mom did a lame-*ss job of playing drunk (I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but I can almost more see her father as being drunk. That just may be the actor's affectation: I'm not sure )



What was w/ that scene w/ Will and Helen at the end (breaking up the flow of the Bat Mitzvah happenings)? Is Joe Mantegna maybe going to leave the show (and, much as I like JM as an actor, I think that really could be for the best, if that's what's happening: like Annie Potts was just brought in, to break up their marriage? Yeesh: look at me, of all people, cheering on a marital break-up. Just fiction! Just fiction! ) But wouldn't that (plot development) then be "Too Dark"?



GG If there are (conservative) Christians who liked this show---and I know there *were* some---I bet a bunch of 'em got their panties in a wad tonight, over God answering Joan's question about why there are so many religions. I mean, it's one thing for God to *not say* "This is the One True Faith," but it's another for God to say S/He's actually In Favor Of "many paths up the mountain." (To the conservative Evangelical) Horrors! Out



At any rate, tonight's ep was good enough that I'm looking forward to the next one in two weeks.

[urnofosiris]

Hand me the bucket Gatito.

I´ll join you in the Glynis love, may she never become a regular cast member. The last two episodes god has been sending out some positive messages again. Gay god and god plugging all religions, very good. I did not mind god being a hot woman either, he has been pretty boys, it was about time we saw god as a gorgeous woman as well.

Cartman: Mom--Kitty is being a dildo.

Mrs. Cartman: Well, I know a little kitty who is sleeping with Mommy tonight.

[BBOvenGuy]

Okay, I'm finally getting caught up on all the shows I taped while I was away over the holiday, and tonight I got caught up on Joan. I know some may disagree, but the past two or three episodes have convinced me that the show has gotten through its sophomore slump - well, for the moment at least. The only complaint I still have, really, is that Joe Mantegna's storyline is becoming more irrelevant all the time. I sure hope they're going somewhere with it.



By the way, did anybody else notice that Joan is now taking orders from Kim Possible?

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[Gatito Grande]

Well, I believe that tonights ep was, in its quiet way, definitely the best of the season. There wasn't a single scene that wasn't at least interesting, and some outright rocked! (or, Rocky'ed! ). Even Grace seemed like her old self!



Let me count the Good Things:



-Joan and God's interactions (particularly liked Chess Player God. Spam God was kinda kewl, too!)



-Joan in general. She just seemed totally dysfunctionally appealing tonight (you could see what the Cute Tutor Guy sees in her---but is anything going to happen there?)



-Joan and Adam. I love how real their relationship seems, w/ all its ups and downs



-Luke, and the rest of "the gang." And particularly loved how Grace was one of the gang tonight, and not Luke's Tonsil-Hockey partner! (Loved her getting into Joan's feisty 'tude . . . and urging her to wear more leather! Oh Grace, how we've missed thee! ) Glynnis! My god (ahem), am I coming to love this (early-to-mid twenties, to look like mid-to-late teens) woman! She has a repertoire of deadly "looks" which just, well, kill me! And even Friedman was fun.



-Kevin was quite moving tonight (Jason Ritter is really improving as an actor ). His scenes w/ Beth (whom I actually like---sorry it *looks* like she's outta the story now) were very believable. His last scene w/ Joan felt very real, too: good to seem some bro/sis bonding there.



-The Grown-Ups. I felt like the Helen/Will story really went somewhere tonight (what w/ developments w/ Lucy, and Ex-Nun Lilly, and the Question of Faith, and "higher powers": all nicely tied into the overall concept of the show). And it seems appropriate, somehow, that Judith's killer gets offed before Will can get his big ol' manly bust: life's like that (though there may be further shoes to drop vis-a-vis Lucy).



The only thing that sorta bothered me, was w/ the guidance counselor: it seemed kinda like a cheap shot (though that scene w/ him may have been uncomfortably close to home? *cough*IvyLeagueGradw/DependencyIssues*cough* )



GG Altogether, a really quality ep. I may have to start taping them again! Out

[BBOvenGuy]

Fans of teacher Miss Lischak - and I know there are plenty of you - will probably be interested in a new interview with the actress who plays her, Elaine Hendrix. It mostly has to do with her role in the movie What the $! Do We Know!?, but it mentions several other roles in her career, too. You can find it here:



www.fortwayne.com/mld/jou...538233.htm

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[Hemiola]

I must say that I thought last night's episode was excellent !



First of all--GO GLYNNIS! I never thought we'd see her tell off Grace like that! (Incidentally, maybe it's just me, but I was authentically surprised at how tall Ms. Tovah is--Becky W looked quite small next to her!).



Also nice was the reappearance of "Gay God" and "Maintenance God". Nice reveal at the end of the identity of "Broadway God"



Amber T can certainly carry a tune, but I definitely think she should keep her "day job". I wonder if she can dance, given that she is the daughter of one of the truly great dancers of the movies?



Glad the lawsuit is over so that we can move on to other things .

[xita]

From TV Guide:



Amber Tamblyn is in a snit. Maybe it's because she didn't get a Golden Globe nomination this season. Maybe it's because her once-hot CBS series, Joan of Arcadia, is attracting just 8.4 million viewers each week - down from an average of 10 million last season.

Whatever the reason, Tamblyn is clearly unhappy. In a candid interview, the 21-year-old actress talked about her complaints with the direction the show is taking. "Joan is digressing," Tamblyn says of her character, an average- if slightly flaky- teenager who has conversations with the Almighty (in the form of a variety of everyday people). "Joan is backtracking. Joan is more confused.... She learns something in [one] episode, but then she seems to redo [her mistakes] in another, so she never seems to learn anything. I'm not really sure where the growth is."

More than that, "Joan's life is tough," Tamblyn insists. "Her reactions are not as hard as they should be. I want to see her more challenged. The producers know how I feel."

Indeed they do. In December Tamblyn met with producers to push them to take the show in a darker direction. "The reality is that we are a family show and we have been getting a lot of crirical praise this season, even though the numbers have wavered," executive producer Stephen Nathan says. Nathan is also quick to point out that "creative differences between producers and actors on the series is the norm and that we think Amber is a phenomenal talent."

CBS declined to comment on Tamblyn's complaints. But if they won't talk to us, they'd better talk to their Emmy-nominated star. "I like to be challenged," Tamblyn says. "If I am not challenged, I get bored. I am here today and I could be gone tomorrow. That could be my choice."

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."

Edited by: xita  at: 1/26/05 7:53 pm

[BytrSuite]

Thanks for typing that up.



I agree with Amber. It's boring for me to watch Joan have to learn the same things over and over and over and over again. She doesn't seem to take any of her lessons to heart, longterm. The character has been annoying me for a while now.



I still watch, mostly out of habit. I did enjoy the musical episode, it was fun.

________
Bender: Y'know, I was God once.
God: Yes I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.

[Gatito Grande]

[Well, thank you, mother-f*ckin' EZ board, for eating my post! ]



Dammit, it always so hard to start over on these things: you craft an intelligent post, trying to hit point after point, and then the board goes and eats it . . .



OK, where was I?



JofA, 1/28. Just watched it tonight (the VCR actually worked this time, unlike the last ep).



Like this show. Feel it's turned a corner (inc. Joan's portrayal, as per her interview). Final scene w/ Hilary Duff (Her ditz? Acting or not? ), and the dessert tray: very touching.



Lucy as Evil Genius interesting (So much smarter than Will . . . not that that's saying much).



Can deal w/ Luke/Grace, as long as Grace is still Grace (improving there).



Kevin does have TV hair.



Nice scene between Helen and Adam: "You learned you're good enough to steal from." Way to go w/ the life lesson, Helen.



Where's Glynnis? Want to see her every week.



GG There. In a completely deracinated kind of way, is my previous post, recovered. Mods, please don't let this happen again, w/o giving the EZ board owners some grief? Out

[BBOvenGuy]

April Grace, who played Will's partner Det. Sgt. Toni Williams last season, is currently performing onstage in Sojourner, a play about the life of ex-slave, feminist and abolitionist Sojourner Truth. It will be at the Hudson Theatre in Hollywood through March 27.



I saw the play last night in one of its final "preview" performances at Moorpark College, and it's great. Three women portray Sojourner Truth through the various parts of her life. April plays the middle-aged Sojourner.



I also got to meet April and the other two actresses after the performance. The producer is a friend of mine from my choir, and I helped her select the African-American spirituals used at various points in the story. You've got to love living in the Los Angeles area.

"...what we leave behind us is, in fact, not our opinions but our examples." - Christopher Isherwood

[Hemiola]

An excellent episode, I thought



I'm so glaaaad that we're at last rid of Lucy , she was really starting get on my nerves (nothing against the lovely and talented Ms. Potts, though ).



Joan's daydreams were very cute, as were Big G's comments ("I liked that you made yourself a record producer" ).



Finally, I really must declare that my favorite avatar of the Deity is "Little Girl God"--somehow I'd like to think that the famous "still small voice" of the Bible sounds like her .

[Hemiola]

Well, I saw Friday's (2/18) episode, and it wasn't bad, but on the whole no better than OK. One thing, however, bothered me...



The central plot of the episode centered around whether or not Joan would defy her mother and go to a concert with Adam, spending the night with him in his camper. As it turns out, she goes to the concert, and while she and Adam are together in the camper, he proposes that they "take the next step" and proceed to full intimacy. Joan refuses, leaving them both frustrated and upset. At this point, I wanted to start yelling at the screen!



I know that I am ancient, but can I really be the only one on this board old enough to remember that it would have been possible for these kids to make each other very happy without "going all the way" (ahhh, memories, memories.... )? I mean, come on, they're both supposed to be 17, and is the producer trying to tell us that these (supposedly) bright kids haven't figured out what a...um...hand job is???



I know that there are limits to what can be shown on network television but, as "BtVS" used to show, a great deal can be implied. Or could it be that the actual attitude amongst kids these days is "intercourse or nothing"????



Thoughts? Anybody?

[urnofosiris]

I have given up watching JoA several episodes ago, but as usual I won´t let that stop me. What you describe sounds like a bit of a morality lesson. ´Girls, look at the good girl who talks to god, she said no to the sex. That´s the way to go´. I wonder if the writers have even considered what you suggested. This season has been leaning toward the preachy side and the underlying message has bothered me greatly at times.



Of course if Joan is not ready then no is the answer, but why put her in this position? Did she and Adam ever discuss this, or did he just skip that part to move right onto ´now´s the time to do it?´ That does not seem like him.

Edited by: DrG at: 2/21/05 11:29 am

[Hemiola]

I think you make a good point there DrG !



I agree that the producers' intention does indeed seem have been to show "impressionable youngsters" that Joan's reaction should serve as good role model. As for Adam, the script gave the impression that his understanding was that this is what Joan wanted to do, since she was agreeing to spend the night with him ("and we've been going out for so long" he says). Still, it seemed to me that they were skipping a whole lot of "bases" here: all we've ever seen Joan and Adam do is kiss--what about "2nd base", or "3rd base"? Can the producers actually expect an intelligent viewer to believe that these kids have never thought about touching each other in any way other than kissing??? For cryin' out loud, even 40 years ago that would have been considered lame (and I'm old enough to know! ).



My paranoia is kicking in--could this be the nefarious influence of the Bush-run FCC, working hand-in-hand with the evil Parents Television Council?

[Gatito Grande]

[this is a rather involved little essay: not for those who don't give a damn about comparative religion . . . and GG's screwy TV viewing habits! ]



I am wildly ambivalent about this show at this point. I keep watching it (um, to the extent that VCR health lets me: of course, my VCR let me down on last week's Desperate Housewives also ), but I still feel like the cast is capable of great eps (and they've done it before).



At the same time, I can't get over the feeling there's something intrinsically broken at the heart of the show.



. . . an impression only intensified by something I saw a few weeks ago.



No, not on the show itself, instead rather an interview that touched on the show, on a completely and utterly different network.



To explain this, you should know I have a little obsession (it's somewhere between a devotion, and a perversion). It's that I frequently watch EWTN "the Global Catholic Network." It's not for the weak of stomach: homophobia on it is frequent, and has only increased in the past year or so (as JP2's homophobic rants have increased). It's a sickness (me watching this network), but I keep doing it. At any rate, one weekly show they have, is a program where a convert talks about why they converted to (Roman) Catholicism (their spiritual journey up to that point, and what they're doing now). I should note, that not just any RC convert gets on: you have to have proper conservative credentials (you have to be an "I agree w/ the Pope however he flaps/slurs his piehole!" kind of Catholic).



A couple of weeks ago, on this program, they had a guy who, as it turns out, is a "religious advisor" to Joan of Arcadia.



I was shocked. It was only a few weeks before, that I was congratulating the show, for having God say that there were "many paths up the mountain" (i.e. no one religion has all the Truth, leaving the others all False). Now Roman Catholicism, even in an EWTN iteration, is somewhat more open-minded on the Truth in other religions than is, say, conservative Protestantism. Still, EWTN folks tend harp, again and again, on how the (Roman) Catholic Church has the "Fullness of Truth": way less open-minded, than that position being expressed by God on JofA.



So, to make a long story short(er), I just don't know where the h*ll this show is coming from. Maybe the convert "Religious Advisor" dude (I'm sorry I don't remember his name, though I could probably look it up on the website if anyone is interested. I did look for immediately after, in the JofA credits, but didn't think I saw it) simply doesn't have that much influence (w/ Barbara Hall, the creator). Maybe I'm looking for his nefarious handiwork, that just isn't there.



. . . and then again, maybe this guy sets some kind of boundaries: "make sure Grace doesn't look gay!" "have Helen's problems w/ re-joining the Catholic Church be her own deal, and not because there's any Real Problems w/ the Church!" (like Helen couldn't become an Episcopalian? I do recall, from the EWTN show, that the Religious Advisor guy made a point of saying how the RC priest on the show was portrayed favorably).



Eh. In conclusion, I keep watching the show, but after the Real Dreck of the early part of the 2nd season, combined w/ this "the Catholic Church has the Fullness of Truth" dude they have for an advisor, I do so w/ what we call, in seminary, an inflamed "hermeneutic of suspicion"!



GG And---apropos of nothing---what's w/ all the stunt casting? The Duff Sisters, dude from the Black-Eyed Peas: to me, this says "we don't have confidence in our basic concept, cast, and writing." Get back to the (First Season) basics! Out



Re: last week's show. So Adam, it turns out, for all his Artsy-Fartsiness . . . is a 17 year-old boy. Who knew?

[gspiggott]

I'm still watching, if not exactly sure why , and GG I found your observations intriguing. It makes sense with the way the show has gone this year especially the whole sex is bad routine , and don't even get me started on the things about the Catholic Church that get swept under the rug when it comes to Helen's religious education. But Grace seems more like her old self the last few weeks and that's a plus. The idea that Grace and Adam make out and do nothing else after a year is nuts , unless one or both of them were gay and I doubt that's where Hall and Co. are headed.

[The Rose24]

Adam! Nooooooo!!!



I really thought he was trustworthy.



I won't discuss this any further until The West Coasters have seen the episode.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 4/1/05 9:04 pm

[BBOvenGuy]

I'm a west coaster, and we're only 1/3 of the way through the show, but I'll say something already.



It was inevitable that they'd break up Joan and Adam sooner or later - this is TV, after all - but I don't like that it happens because Adam wants a girl who will put out. Negative male stereotypes aren't any better than negative female ones.

"...what we leave behind us is, in fact, not our opinions but our examples." - Christopher Isherwood

[The Rose24]

Well, you see what happens. Adam loses the girl he has loved since the beginning, and he sees it isn't worth it. Maybe he will learn a lesson from all of this.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

[The Rose24]

Great episode. I knew it would be hard for Helen to remain civil after she came face to face with her rapist.



It looks as if Joan and Adam may be working their way back to being friends. I do miss their sweet conversations.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

[Gatito Grande]

I finally watched my tape of this today. It was a good episode . . . but in my mind, what was best was the significant conversation between Joan and Grace ("you keep things from us"). This is a conversation (or the start of one) I've wanted to see Since Day One (S1)!!!!



Another SWUTL connection ("Go Fish" dude), but I can't help resenting the fact that this new change looks a lot like the introduction of Jason Priestly's character on Tru Calling, and I'm just so pissed about losing that show



So, the Season Finale is TONIGHT? Is this another sign of imminent demise (we haven't had the same number of eps as last season, have we)? Because I distinctly recall (trying to) tape the S1 finale while I was in NYC at my graduation last (mid-) May.



GG I still believe that if this show tanks, it will have no one to blame but itself: it took an intriguing premise, and good-to-great cast, and discombobulated it through lazy writing, casting stunts, character-deconstruction (possibly homophobic) *cough*Grace*cough*, and a basic hole at its core: just who the heck cares what THIS "GOD" thinks, anyway? There's a quasi-fundamentalism Deep Inside (maybe it's that "advisor" from EWTN?): "Do it, because God says so, and God Is God." Um, no, sorry: that ain't enough. Not for this believer, anyway! Out



But, to end on a more positive note, if that Joan/Grace conversation is any indicator of Things to Come, then there's hope . . .



********************************************

Update: Season Finale



I'm not sure what to make of it. Parts of it were very good: I liked seeing Judith and Rocky again (kids grow older after death?) . . . and was Very Intrigued that Helen was seeing them, too (besides Joan).



As I suspected, "Ryan" feels way too much like Tru Calling's "Jack" . . . but w/ even less charisma (Go Fish-guy just seems more snotty than truly evil. Um, and was Ryan making some of the same arguments I just made above? Naturally, I'm not inclined to see my own POV as evil, or even anti-God! ). I'd be less suspicious about where this show was going (has gone), if a Buddhist or Hindu temple (or maybe a mosque) was burned/vandalized, too. Younger Joan's Imaginary Friend "Ya-Ya": short for Yahweh, verdad?



So Joan is the child of an artist and a cop? I'm sure that's hardly the first time that's happened (including Joan's own siblings).



There's something I really don't like about Lilly/Kevin . . . and I'm not completely sure what it is (when she said that the inside of the church was "Everything!" I wanted to hurl. Get a life, Lilly---but then maybe that was the point)



The one redeeming thing I could really see (besides Helen's "charism", if that's what it is), is Joan looking towards her friends, as her possible "army." No shit, Sherlock: I've been saying that practically from the beginning, also (Make Mageina Tovah a castmember? I know, I know: that's what I said last year about Becky Wahlstrom)



GG What class will they all take together next year, after Physics? And can we please see Ms. Lischak again? She was mentioned, but not shown in this ep. Out



It really remains to be seen whether Joan of Arcadia will be back next year: it's on the USA Today "Save This Show!" list.

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 4/22/05 8:24 pm

[The Rose24]

Actually, I think Joan of Arcadia has regained its legs in the last few eps.

I hope the show returns.

[Warduke]

The show has been cancelled.

[Hemiola]

Much sadness to hear this news.

Of course they axed it just when it was starting to get really interesting!

I wonder if their decision had anything to do with reports that Amber T was getting a little too "uppity" about the direction the show was taking...

[Gatito Grande]

I really am sorry . . . I just wish I could say I was surprised. But rare has been the show which imploded quite so tragically as did JofA in its second season.

In hindsight, Barbara Hall & Co. never knew quite WHAT they had in this show---and what to do w/ it. From the beginning, grafting a cop show onto this series was superfluous. But in the first season, the non-cop portions were so strong, that the cop incongruity didn't matter much.

However, in the second season, it became clear---surprisingly early (though I think the season premiere was quite good)---that there was just "no there, there." I really don't think they should have paired off ANY of the regulars (apart from the parents), but instead, they paired off *both* Joan&Adam (continuing from last year), and (horribly!!!!) Grace&Luke.

GG "Grace & Luke": if you wanna boil down this show's cancellation to single plot point, there it is Out

But (need I add), it really didn't help that "God" was frequently reduced to a back-waving (hated that!) fortune cookie either.

Very Sad, All Around.

[Hemiola]

My local all-news radio station reported today that Amber Tamblyn stated in an interview after receiving the news of the cancellation that she was "philosophical" about the end of the show, since would rather have spent "2 years on a good show than 8 years on a bad one."

[Tarababy77]

Cancel??? Huh, what??? NO!!! I just got caught up on all 23 episodes. I was not expecting the end of season 2 to be like that, but then can't leave it there. I wanna know what happens next. ~breathing~ Okay, i'm okay. Just don't like it when all the good shows (that I like) get the boot. =)

[emma peel]

Don't feel bad, Aaron. I just found it was cancelled when I checked out this thread only a couple of minutes ago.
Oy.