Tipping The Velvet Thread

[hellmouthhottie20]

i also, as usual managed to miss the Frank Skinner show with her on it,

Still iam looking forward to tonight, unfortunatly iam going to have to record it as the football is on, on ITV2,

Does that make me a bad person!!?????





Caz

The very FIRST thing Neil Armstrong said when he landed on the moon - "theres no way a cow jumped over here"

[concrete]

quote : football is on, on ITV2,

Does that make me a bad person!!????? unquote

erm... yes!

kwoot------This is the most insane day of my life! Well, if you don't count each and every other day...eniksnapperniksvan----unkwoot

[witchfoo]

is the Frank Skinner show ever repeated my friends? cheeers for the snippets everyone!

[Pipsqueak]

Ange, thank you so much for the link to those clips! This looks like an amazing series; just the few snippets I've seen have been very entertaining and totally sucked me in. And speaking of sucking (wink wink) .....



... none of the clips had smut. I'm gonna start crying. Don't make me get on my hands and knees and .... ummm .... beg you for it.

~~~~~~~~~~
"Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh, and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions.
It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference.
We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be." -- Angel

[birdblue]

aw - I saw the last part.... I don't wanna give it a way - but I am so pleased with that ending... I was nearly having it out with my tv set when she turned up at the theatre... grrrrrr.





yea!



niccy xoxoxo

'everyday she cried, not because she was

sad, but because the world was so beautiful, and life was so short'

[Hotfoot]

Glad I wasn't the only one talking to the TV (OK so shouting at the TV is probably more accurate!) I really enjoyed this last part, very sweet and I really liked the ending... Can somebody tell me if it was the same as the book as I will not get my copy until tomorrow.

[tasha]

I just watched the last part and what a super ending.



As with the other parts, the acting and costumes were excellent. Things I especially liked about this part were the great conclusion to the story, the development if Florence's character and an excellent score.



I'm sure someone will post a summary of this part, but I thought that Andrew Davies has made a very good job of the ending and, although I've heard that it is different from the book (which hasn't arrived yet), I doubt it could have turned out better.



At the start of the show I wasn't too keen on the character Florence, although this is obviously Waters' intention, so it was nice to see her open up and become a more likable character. It's also nice to see Nan with a loving family.



I will also mention the score for this part, which was particularly moving and conveyed the emotion of the scenes perfectly.



Tipping the Velvet has been a great story, giving the whole range of emotions from sadness and anger to happiness (and possibly jealously ). Although it is sad that it has come to an end, I'm glad that it did in such a lovely way. Unlike certain other things



tasha



PS I am sharing all three parts on Kazaa, but if you can't find them, and would like to download them, message me and we can arrange an alternative.

[Crus]

I just tried Kazaa but couldn't find it. Would really love to have them coz I don't know if Australia will be showing it or not????



Thankx in advance!!!

[runnerbird]

Just read a synposis of the third installment and I just have to say.. it sounds so amazing! I can't wait to get this on DVD when I'm in the UK (just have to get a multi-region dvd player in the meantime)...



And as a big fan of how the book ending, the ending here is just as satisfying. I was re-reading the end this morning and I totally understand why it was changed. Although great literature, I don't think the book ending would have translated well on film at all. It would have fell flat dramatically. I think the changes were appropriate and seemingly well executed.



So... is any merciful soul going to post clips of Episode II and III... I ain't too proud to beg and plead for your sympathy! I'm not going to the UK 'til Jan... I DON'T want to wait that long actually see some of the scenes.

------------------------------------------------


"There's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity"


Waking Life (2001)

[SJ]

The Frank Skinner Show isn't repeated.

What a great ending to what has been a great 3 part drama.

Liked this week's episode a lot. The music hall songs were terrific.

I was on the edge of my seat when Nan threw that rose into the audience,so glad she chose to stay with Florence.

It was great that there was a happy ending.

Great acting all round.

[Chino6069]

Aww SJ... and everyone else was trying to be so careful not to give the ending away



Bummer that Frank Skinner isn't repeated on ITV2. I can't stand the man but there have been a coupl of his shows that have been a riot - Brittney being one of them.



I've not read, or bought the book yet so I'm not sure what the difference was with the ending - if any.



I've never been a fan of Jody May but I did warm to her last night, but only slightly



I know the show was all about Nan but I wish Keeley had done some promotional work for it.



Rachel is a hottie, just like her mom.

[witchfoo]

Am I the only one that felt sorry for Kitty!? I know Nan had to stay with Florence, but poor old Kitty she's got a broken heart now. Bless!



Ms Hawes leaves me speachless.

[miss calendar]

Well I enjoyed the final episode and think it's a great miniseries, far better than I'd originally hoped for. And I now have crushes on all the actresses...



Hotfoot the episode was in some ways very different from the book and in others quite faithful - Nan's choice was the same if that's what you were wondering.

runnerbird I agree that a lot of the changes worked dramatically ,especially the return to the music hall and the final scene. (and wasn't Rachael Stirling yummy in her top hat and tails, sigh...) Most of the things they cut made little difference to the story, however I was unhappy with what they did to Flo's character and the way her relationship with Nan developed.



I liked how in the novel when they meet back when Nan has her secret life as a rent boy they are instinctively attracted to each other but then when they meet again later each believes the other is straight until they long after they fall for each other. I especially like how Flo turns out to be an experienced and out 'tom' (love that term!) who has no reservations about her sexuality and is quite happy to live openly with her female lover. In the book it is Flo who takes Nan to the womens' bar, Flo who explains to Nan what 'Tipping the Velvet' means, Flo who takes the initiative when they first make love.



I also think it's a shame that while Kitty and Diana were shown in the context of the professional and social worlds they inhabit Flo was not. So we miss out on seeing Flo the committed socialist, active in both the union movement and working for womens' rights as well as Flo the generous neighbour and charity worker. We also don't get to see much of the colleagues and friends who make up the community of 'toms' Flo socialises with. Still I guess that's a relatively minor gripe considering all the goodness in the TV show



pipsqueak I'm afraid I can't help with any smut clips but here is a passage from the book - hope you enjoy it.







She blinked, and seemed to shiver; and then I shivered too. And then I said simply, ' Oh Flo... '

And then as if through some occult power of its own, the space between our lips seemed to grow small, and then we were kissing. She lifted her hand to touch the corner of my mouth; and then her fingers came between our pressing lips - they tasted still of sugar. And then I began to shake so hard I had to clench my fists and say to myself, ' Stop shaking, can't you? She'll think you've never been kissed before at all! '



When I raised my hands to her, however, I found that she was shaking just as badly; and when, after a moment, I moved my fingers from her throat to the swell of her breasts, she twitched like a fish - then smiled, and leaned closer to me. ' Press me harder! ' she said.

We fell back together upon the bed then - it shifted another inch across the carpet, on it's wheels - and I undid the buttons of her skirt and pressed my face to her bosom, and sucked at one of her nipples, through the cotton chemise, till the nipple grew hard and she began to stiffen and pant. She put her hands to my head again, and lifted me to where she could kiss me; I lay and moved upon her, and felt her move beneath me, felt her breasts against my own, till I knew I should come, or faint - but then she turned me, and raised my skirt, and put her hand between my legs , and stroked so slowly, so lightly, so teasingly, I hoped I might never come at all...

At last, I felt her hand settle at the very wettest part of me, and she breathed against my ear. ' Do you care for it, ' she mumured then, ' inside? ' The question was such a gentle, such a gallant one, I almost wept. ' Oh! ' I said, and again she kissed me; and after a moment I felt her move within me, first with one finger, then with two, I guessed, then three...

At last, after a second's pressure, she had her hand in me up to the wrist. I think I called out - I think I shivered and panted and called out , to feel the subtle twisting of her fist, the curling and uncurling of her sweet fingers, beneath my womb...

When I reached my crisis I felt a gush, and found that I had wet her arm, with my spendings, from fingertip to elbow - and that she had come, out of a kind of sympathy, and lay weak and heavy against me, with her own skirts damp. She drew her hand free - making me shiver anew - and I seized it and held it, and pulled her face to me and kissed her; and then we lay very quietly with our limbs pressed hard together until, like cooling engines, we ceased our pulsings and grew still.

---

'' A bit of tongue, Miss Astley dear ? ''




from Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters

Edited by: miss calendar at: 10/24/02 6:23:01 am

[concrete]

Confession: I did not like the first episode very much. Don’t know what I expected but it must have been something else entirely. The spoken dialogue annoyed me, the pace, the (oyster) metaphors. The acting was superb, no complaints there. The second ep sort of went by in rather the same fashion.

Then, the final episode yesterday. I was riveted. It had everything one could ask or hope for and I was disappointed when the credits arrived; disappointed in a good sense, mind you. I then had the sudden urge to watch all three episodes in a row and suddenly it all fell into place. I take back my initial dislike and stand highly corrected. I couldn’t keep my eyes off the screen and was totally into the story. The happy ending of course also largely contributed to my enjoying all this.

I am gonna enjoy this video –and DVD next week- till it’s worn out. So: thanks BBC; more of such quality stuff please!

kwoot------This is the most insane day of my life! Well, if you don't count each and every other day...eniksnapperniksvan----unkwoot

[urnofosiris]

Ms Calendar, thank you for explaining some of the differences between the book and the series. Again I must say I am glad I have not read the book yet as it probably would have hindered my enjoyment of the series. I did not know what to expect. Hee, there is something to be said about being unspoiled. (My thanks to flying poppy for convincing me)



I loved the last part, though the start was depressing and a bit disturbing. I had read that summary comment for this episode that said Nan's happiness with Florence is short-lived. Ick. It made me dread what would happen when I saw the relationship between Florence and Nan blossom. Watching them I felt any desire I harbored for Nan to reunite with Kitty dwindle. She made her bed and now she would have to lie in it, with her Mr Bliss.



So I was hoping Nan would give the rose to Florence, I got the ending I wanted, though I really did feel sorry for Kitty.



I shall get myself a nice copy of the book soon. Judging from the excerpt posted by Ms Calendar (thanks for that as well ) it reads like very good WT fic , heh, it is even more explicit than the series (though I've no complaints regarding that). I am guessing both book and series are really wonderful and I will enjoy them both in their own right as seperate entities so as not to be bothered by the changes that have been made.



Oh and I got to watch the happy ending that I wanted and -unlike by the death and destruction that I supposedly need- I was highly entertained by that ...

Edited by: DrG at: 10/24/02 7:20:08 am

[runnerbird]

Miss Calendar... I'm saddened to hear that some of my favorite aspects of Florence's character were deluded ... that is quite a shame. I loved the irony of Florence (a "lady" in Nan's eyes) being a more experience tom (love that word too) than Nan. I especially love the scene in the book when Nan wonders how many other lovers Flo has had... Flo apparently can put her lovers into categories those who like to be touched "down there" and those who don't.



So, is the term "tipping the velvet" ever explained in the series?



Also (being a bit of a smut hound), what are Flo and Nan's love scenes like? I love how the book describes the sexual side of their relationship... it's beautiful passionate and complex...



"You made me wait two years and a half, you can wait until the parlour clears" (My favorite Nan and Flo scene in the book)

------------------------------------------------


"There's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity"


Waking Life (2001)

[Wytchi Grrl]

To be Honest the last episode was my favourite, More love than sex for the sake of tv ratings.

I held my breath while Nan decided who to throw the rose to(not having read the book yet), Until she met Flo for the second time I just kept hoping her and Kitty would get back together making a happy ever after scenario but once Nan and Flo got together I felt I could see Kitty was more of an obsession to Nan, a first time love that is never forgotton. In Flo she found a true love and that was the true happy ever after ending. Although I wouldn't want to have been the one to make the decision.

Yip will be buying the DVD, Just for the romance of it all you understand

"RESPECT THE NARRATIVE FLOW MUCH!?"

[miss calendar]

runnerbird I'm afraid on the TV show there is just one short, tasteful, not very explicit love scene between Nan and Flo which lacks the passion and urgency of the book or indeed the scenes shown between Nan and Kitty, Diana and Zena. I'm right with you on loving the irony of Flo turning out to be a more experienced tom than Nan and those scenes you mention are my favourites too. Hmmm...thinks about posting them, purely in the interests of restoring Flo's character, you understand.



'Tipping the Velvet' is explained and in the same way as in the book but in the show Nan explains it to Flo!!! grrrrrrr

It is also Nan who takes Flo to the womens' bar and we're given the impression that Flo has never been in such a place before. grrrrrrrr

In fact Flo is presented almost as the 'lady' that Nan initially mistakes her for. grrrrrrrr



Okay rant over.....



Dr G It reads like good W/T fanfic, lol.

Well let's see if I can find another W/T passage. Perhaps this time less smut, more lustbunnies.....





She had seemed chaste as a plaster saint to me, once; she had seemed plain. But she was not chaste now - she was marvellously bold and frank and ready; and the boldness made her bonny, made her gleam, like a kind of polish. I could not look at her and not want to touch her. I could not see the shine upon her pink lips, without wanting to step to her and press my mouth to it; I couldn't look at her hand as it lay limp upon some table-top, or held a pen, or carried a cup, or did any kind of ordinary business, without longing to take it in my own and kiss the knuckles or put my tongue to the palm, or press it to the fork at my trousers. I would stand beside her in a crowded room and feel the hairs lift on my arms - and see her own flesh pimple and her cheeks grow warm, and know she ached for me, to match my aching; but she would take a dreadful satisfaction, too, in lengthening the visits of her friends - in handing out a second cup of tea, and then a third - and all the while I looked on, tortured and damp.



' You made me wait, for two years and a half, ' she said to me once; I had followed her into the kitchen, and put my shaking arms about her as she lifted a kettle to the stove. ' It won't hurt you to wait an hour till the parlour clears..... '

But when she said a similar thing another night, I touched her through the folds of her skirt until her voice grew weak - and then she led me into the pantry, and put a broom across the door, and we caressed amongst the packets of flour and tins of treacle while the kettle whistled and the kitchen grew woolly with steam, and Annie called out from the parlour, What were we doing?

The fact was, we had both gone kissless for so long that, having once begun to kiss again, we could not stop.

Our boldness made us marvel.

' I had you down for one of those terrible grudging girls,' she said to me one night, a week or two after our visit to the Boy. 'One of those dry-rub-it-on-the-hip-don't-touch-me sorts.... '

'Are there such girls?' I asked her.

She coloured. 'Well I have lain with one or two....'

The thought that she had lain with different girls - with so many girls she could put them into categories, like breeds of fish - was wonderfully astonishing and stirring. I put my hand upon her - we were laying together, naked despite the cold, because we had bathed in a steaming tub and were still warm and prickling from it - and stroked her, from the hollow at her throat to the hollow of her groin; then I stroked her again, and felt her shiver.

'Who would ever have thought that I should touch you so, and talk to you so!' I asked her, whispering, because Cyril lay beside us, asleep in his crib.

'I was sure you would prove prim and awkward. I was sure you would be shy. Indeed, I didn't see how you could fail to be, being so political and good as you are!'

She laughed. 'It ain't the Salvation Army, you know,' she answered, 'socialism.'

-----------------------------------


'A little tongue, Miss Astley dear?'


from Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters

Edited by: miss calendar at: 10/24/02 9:57:12 am

[runnerbird]

Quote:

---

'Tipping the Velvet' is explained and in the same way as in the book but in the show Nan explains it to Flo!!! grrrrrrr

It is also Nan who takes Flo to the womens' bar and we're given the impression that Flo has never been in such a place before. grrrrrrrr

In fact Flo is presented almost as the 'lady' that Nan initially mistakes her for. grrrrrrrr

---

Grrr indeed... that's just plain stupid! Talk about character assassination! I'm liking the fact that she ended up with this version of Flo less and less... Err... Grr.. and Aurgh... Is there anything left of the Flo I loved from the book? Aside from the baby?



Well, I'll have to wait and see it for myself before I make any judgments (all Grrrrs aside)



ETA.... Jodhi May... quite a lovely looking girl.. *sigh*

------------------------------------------------


"There's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity"


Waking Life (2001)

Edited by: runnerbird at: 10/24/02 10:19:16 am

[hellmouthhottie20]

Well i just saw the last episode and i LOVED it.

I have to admit that iam totally in love with Florence, (the actress who played her that is)

am i the only one???



Caz

The very FIRST thing Neil Armstrong said when he landed on the moon - "theres no way a cow jumped over here"

Edited by: hellmouthhottie20 at: 10/24/02 10:17:41 am

[witchfoo]

but who's going to cuddle Kitty?!

[tyche]

The ratings for the final ep were pretty good, if anyone's interested:

media.guardian.co.uk/overnights/story/0,7965,818267,00.html

4.1 million is an excellent audience for BBC2, especially since they beat the show that was on ITV in the same time slot. (The first ep actually beat the evening news on BBC1, and the series only lost 0.8 million viewers over its 3-episode run, which would seem to indicate that most of the original audience weren't so offended by the sexual content that they tuned out.)



I did enjoy the final episode, and I particularly liked the ending. Interesting to read the changes that were made to the book: I had the feeling that Flo might have been a character who was 'watered down' for the TV adaptation. Also disappointed that we didn't get an explicit love scene between Nan and Flo, but I loved the scene of them together in bed the morning after. All in all, I loved this series. I was entertained, moved and fascinated. The Victorians will never seem quite the same again.



There's an interview with Rachael Stirling in the current (November) UK edition of 'Cosmo' - thought I'd type it up for you as she talks about the series quite a lot:

Quote:

---

How my TV role taught me so much about sexuality

Rachael Stirling, 25, daughter of actress Diana Rigg, reveals how playing a lesbian in the BBC TV drama ‘Tipping the Velvet’ made her more sexually confident.



As an actress I’ve had to play all kind of roles - from receptionists to drug addicts - but my latest venture is definitely the raunchiest. ‘Tipping the Velvet’ is set in Victorian times and I play Nan Astley, the daughter of an oyster-stall owner who falls in love with another woman, Kitty. Everyone wants to know ‘What’s it like to fall in love with another woman?' Now I can tell them.

“Before I landed this part, I’d never kissed another woman, for work or in real life. Like me, Nan is naïve about these things about the start of the story and I got the chance to go on a journey of discovery with her. I slowly began to understand the sexual bond that can exist between two women and was even prompted to look again at my own sexuality.

“I first heard about the part last year when a director I was working with, Geoff Sax, suggested I read the book by Sarah Waters. He was doing a TV adaptation and wanted me to audition for the part of Nan.

“The book is a real page-turner. I knew it would be a massive challenge because Nan is in several explicit lesbian sex scenes. After seven auditions, I got a call from Geoff to say I had the part. I think the whole street heard my cries of excitement.

“My mum, the actress Diana Rigg, thought the role would be a great opportunity for me. I wasn’t sure how my boyfriend of two years, John Green, 24, a DJ, would feel about it, but he realised that playing Nan was the role of my dreams so was thrilled for me. The lesbian love scenes did slightly worry him as I’d be exploring something so completely new. Sex scenes can be agony for someone who loves you, but he knows it’s all part of my job.

“I talked to friends who are gay about how they came to terms with their sexuality. It’s difficult enough growing up and dating boys, but when you’re questioning your sexuality, and are suddenly not part of the majority any more, the world must sometimes seem like a very harsh place.

“I also talked to my friend Daisy, from university, about how we felt about each other when we met. We’re both heterosexual, but when we first became really close, we did sort of fall in love with each other. Although nothing sexual happened, it was almost like an affair - we just adored being around each other, the way you do in a new relationship. By exploring my sexuality, I learned I’m in love with all my girlfriends to a degree.

“Soon after, I read a lot of Victorian porn. Homosexuality was so frowned upon in Victorian times that the only way to get hold of these photographs was through a secret underground movement. They’re far more shocking than ‘Playboy’. I remember one picture of two women with double-ended vibrators. It proves that, even then, women felt compelled to be sexually uninhibited, however secretive they had to be.

“When filming started in April this year, I couldn’t help feeling nervous when we reached the love scene in which my character loses her virginity. I’ve never done a love scene before - not even a heterosexual one. But, thanks to all my research and everything I’ve learned from people I’ve spoken to, it wasn’t a problem at all. From a man’s perspective, quite often, a woman’s body is completely confusing. But when one woman makes love to another, she can automatically sense what that woman would enjoy.

“After we finished filming, I was allowed to take a tape of the programme home and I watched it with John in my flat. I was excited and also a bit nervous as to how he would react. During the love scenes he did giggle a little at the thought of other men being turned on by what I was doing. And I could tell he thought I was enjoying myself so much I might try something like this again. But he needn’t worry. John and I are as close as we’ve always been and I know that he’s the man for me.

“The series has already sparked controversy, but I underestimated the degree of homophobia that still exists. There was a piece in one newspaper asking why the BBC is putting on a big budget article for a minority audience. If people are still writing articles like that, attitudes can’t have changed that much since the Victorian era. I think that for some men the thought that a woman can sexually satisfy another woman is terrifying. It makes them feel unnecessary.

“Instead, I hope people will realise what I realised - that love is love, whether it’s woman-to-woman or woman-to-man. Of course the mechanics differ but the emotional aspect remains the same. And, in some ways, the bond and understanding women naturally have with each other can make the act of sex even more rewarding.”

---

Edited by: tyche at: 10/24/02 12:19:07 pm

[miss calendar]

that's a great interview, tyche, thanks for posting it.



witchfoo, I'd cuddle Kitty anyday!

I thought all the actresses were gorgeous but Keeley Hawes, especially in the first episode was unbelieveably gorgeous.

-----------------------------------


'A little tongue, Miss Astley dear?'


from Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters

[VampNo12]

Thanks miss calendar for those two passages, I so got to get my hands on this book this weekend. And thanks tyche for the interview, she seems quite lovely .

[tommo]

I too, noticed the changes they made in the final episode. And yes, it was a shame that they didn't have the opportunity to show how assertive Florence is, or how involved she is in the machinations of socialism and women's roles in society. I always thought that was part of what made Florence such a wonderful character.



The one thing that I did find incredibly tender was the love scene between Nan and Florence. I thought that it was palpably obvious that this was love, not sex. And that was something I hadn't seen before with Nan. Not that look of wonder on her face as she and Florence were tracing each other's features. It was simply, beautiful.

[Hanki]

this has now taken over as my favourite part



it was a shame that the character of Flo was changed though, i still love her (who wouldn't?) but the stuff with Nan taking Flo to the bar and explaining what Tipping The Velvet actually meant did bug me somewhat.



strangley enough i've found that the thing i really loved about this series was the music! it was fantastic, from the music hall songs to the background music. i really hope the bbc release a soundtrack cd to go with my DVD on monday

~ Han ~
"...cuz i shove a hanki down my trousers..." ~ Rachael Stirling

[littlesplinters]

I just gotta say that this was a superior peice of Tv and well done to the BBC for having the bottle to go with it, definately one of the best lesbian dramas i have ever seen, wonderfully written and acted, quite proud really to see this on GB TV, and hope the BAFTAS recognise TTV as the truly inspiring peice of work it is.

[Kendahl897]

Aw c'mon someone, clips, PLEASE!!!!! Ya'll are killing me with these descriptions...I 've read the book..I want some scenes now...

[Pipsqueak]

miss calendar, thanks for the passages from the book! They were ... umm .... well, let's just say I enjoyed them very much.



Although I do have to second Kendahl's request for clips!

~~~~~~~~~~
"Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh, and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions.
It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference.
We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be." -- Angel

[miss calendar]

Yes tommo, that scene is very tender and touching.

I thought they communicated the love between Nan and Flo really well, not just in that scene but also all the looks they gave each other. I'd rather they showed the love than the lust but both would have been nice....



Hanki I love your avatar and your sig.

-----------------------------------


'A little tongue, Miss Astley dear?'


from Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters