The Prime Time Closet

[AutumnT]

While looking through the latest Advocate I noticed an ad for a new book that looks like it is trying to be TV's answer to The Celluloid Closet. Of note is the fact that Willow is one of the characters featured on the book's cover. You can read more about it here: www.applausepub.com/itemD...35&order=1

Autumn

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Well, the reindeer part was nice...

Edited by: AutumnT  at: 6/19/02 12:36:14 am

[urnofosiris]

Ah that could be interesting. Thanks for posting that Autumn.

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"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

[Rally]

THE PRIME TIME CLOSET

A History of Gays and Lesbians on TV

Series: Applause Books

Publisher: Applause Books

Medium: Book



Composer/Author: Stephen Tropiano



Television history was made on April 30, 1997, when comedian Ellen DeGeneres and her sitcom alter-ego Ellen Morgan, 'came out' to her close friends and 36 million viewers. This groundbreaking episode represented a significant milestone in Amerian television. For the first time, a TV series centered around a lesbian character who was portrayed by an openly gay actor. The millions of viewers who tuned in that historic night were witnesses to a new era in television. THE PRIME TIME CLOSET offers an entertaining and in-depth glimpse into homosexuality on television from the 1950s through today. Divided into four sections, each devoted to a major television genre, this unique book explores how gay men and lesbians have been depicted in over three hundred television episodes and made-for-TV films. These include medical series, police/detective shows, situation comedies and TV dramas. THE PRIME TIME CLOSET also reveals how television's treatement of homosexuality has reflected and reinforced society's ignorance about and fear of gay men and lesbians. At the same time, it celebrates programs like Ellen and Will & Grace that have broken new ground in their sensitive and enlightened approach to homosexuality and gay-related themes. This book is witty and insightful, accessible and illuminating, a look into what has become an integral part of American media culture.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[urnofosiris]

Oh shit you know BtVS is probably going to get praised into high heaven if this was written *before* you know what.

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"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

[Rally]

It is for release this month, so typically books are sold into stores 6 months prior to their release. Summer releases would have been sold either early December or January. So the book was probably written prior to Season Six even starting.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[urnofosiris]

Well they'll have something to add in the reprint then. Although it might not be so bad if it does just praise and stress the importance of Willow and Tara. It is the truth. And maybe reading the praise knowing what followed will make *someone* at ME *finally* listen and realize what it is they have done here.

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"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

Edited by: DrG at: 6/19/02 12:57:41 am

[JJtheCool]

Isn't that Aly on the cover?

JJtheCool

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*Sigh*

[Penrose Orleans]

So calm, cool, and collected... optimistic and rational... QUICKLY, TELL ME WHAT YOU'VE GOT AND HOW I CAN GET IT!!!

Tyromancy-- The telling of fortunes using cheese.

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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Isn't that Aly on the cover?

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Yeah it is, Autumn said so in the first post, well she said "Willow" actually, and this book would be about Willow, not Aly, but they do have the same face, so yeah, it is Aly, and I am rambling, stopping now.

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"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

Edited by: DrG at: 6/19/02 1:03:38 am

[relativegirl]

In a weird way, maybe its a good thing that this was written before SR because it may cause book reviewers who normally wouldn't comment on a tv show to discuss what Joss did and its impact. And if they don't address the issue, something tells me those reviewers will get a landslide of kitten mail explaining just how things really are.

[mollyig]

Hmm, one to add to the ever-expanding Wish List.



Thanks Autumn!

Adding up the total of a love that's true, multiply life by the power of two
Indigo Girls

[tommo]

Well I will probably wait a year or so and buy the reprint. Ahem. I'm not really in the mood to read several pages waxing lyrical about the whole "bringing gayness into the teenage realm" shit that people think Joss has done.



Or...



More predictably, I shall probably buy this anyway. Deb teaches Gay and Lesbian Studies (or will at some point I think) so it will probably be really useful to her.



Yeah, excuses, excuses. Heh.



Okay, you can also pre-order this on amazon.co.uk. That's good to know.

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Squish. Squish. Squish.

Edited by: tommo at: 6/19/02 5:47:45 am

[xita]

Well if it is like The Celluloid Closet it will eventually get a second edition and maybe then the wrongs righted, i mean the lesbian cliche bit. On the other hand it's good to see Willow on the cover. She is so often ignored. W/T are still of HUGE importance to television gays and lesbians. Their relationship is full of firsts, of course it likely does not include the good yummy kissses of 18 and 19 and the sex of 19. Oh well.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: (to Tara) I could heal.

Tara: (to Willow)And we’re gone.

[BBOvenGuy]

Yeah, count me among those who think it might actually be a good thing for the book to have been written before S6. That way, it'll serve as a record of what Joss threw away.



There might even be some self-serving Mutant Enemy quotes that will now show them up as the hypocrites they are.

------------------------------------------------
"There is quid pro quo in every writer-reader (or writer-viewer) relationship. The readers or viewers give their time and attention, for which they expect some reward in return. A theme which enlightens them, a look at life they have never seen, experiences they can never have away from the printed page or the screen... something in return for giving their time and attention to the story." - Gene Roddenberry

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 6/19/02 12:42:17 pm

[roamin]

Amazon has three copies - and no one has reviewed it yet. I'm ordering a copy and as soon as I read it I'm going to pop a review up, and darn toot'n I'll be sure to mention what happened on Buffy this season.

[Indygo]

Yeah, I did my degree on film and wrote papers on this subject - I couldn't resist buying this book the second I heard about it. But hey, seeing as it is winging it's way all the way to Australia it hasn't quite made it yet...



(This little emoticon was the closest I could think of to how I act when I'm impatient! I think I'll just go check the mail again...)



Indygo

[slayer747]

i think its a nice book... i'll just ahve to wait another, ugh, hundred years before it gets released to this country. *sigh*

"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[tommo]

Well if you've got a credit card you can order it from amazon and have it shipped to wherever you are.

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Squish. Squish. Squish.

[feena191]

Quote:

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Amazon has three copies - and no one has reviewed it yet. I'm ordering a copy and as soon as I read it I'm going to pop a review up

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roamin, which version did you order?

The Prime Time Closet ~ Stephen Tropiano

Applause Theatre Book Publishers - our price £12.99



The Prime Time Closet ~ Stephen Tropiano

Applause Theatre & Cinema Book Publishers - our price £10.31



I know the book will be basically the same, but what's the difference. I don't know which one to order - any US kitties seen either one yet?



I'm ordering The Celluloid Closet video at the same time. It's been mentioned alot here, & until I came here I had never even thought about the existence of the cliche. I guess that's partly the problem with alot of the people who are denying its existence (probably completely, not just in Buffy) - they don't understand, because they've never even thought about it, or had to see it over & over again.



Well, I want to understand it more.



Feena

-xx-

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"Everytime I... even at my worst, you always make me feel special. How do you do that?"

"Magic!"

Edited by: feena191  at: 6/23/02 7:26:23 am

[Taz]

Autumn you are a well of information and hilarity thanks for the info. Think I'll have to check that out.

I refuse to believe that this is all. ~~Xiren Everything

[roamin]

Feena,



here is the ISBN just search on that and you'll pull up the version I ordered.



1557835578



the publisher is Applause Theater Books

[AutumnT]

Just found this site for commercials: www.commercialcloset.org/

Autumn

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It grated, like something forced in where it doesn't belong.

[Rally]

Hehehe is there some reason their default server is named Iowa, cause after all Riley did admit he was a lesbian.



www.commercialcloset.org/...index.html

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[DaffyQDuck]

I'm surprised there is so little on W/T in here because it has info (on other things) up thru March 02. And it's not a big Joss fest. Favorite parts: 12 Additional Outstanding (& Underrated Performers) --Aly is #5. 10 Writers, Producers, & Creative Teams Who Have Made a Difference--No Joss & despite ragging on David Kelly for Ally McBeal, he is #2 for LA Law & The Practice. In The Best of the Best (top 10 TV show)--no BtVS. The Best Dramatic/Dramedy Episodes (13)--#11 is NMR, no Joss or any other ones. I can type the blurb on W/T if you want. Can't believe he didn't mention their relationship in S6 tho, mothering Dawn & smoochies in early epis & OMWF!!

[xita]

This makes me mad. W/T has long been ignore and I am sick to death of it.

WT is the most significant gay relationship on network tv, ever

Go ahead challenge that.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: (to Tara) I could heal.

Tara: (to Willow)And we’re gone.

Edited by: xita  at: 7/3/02 8:51:28 pm

[Rally]

I am thinking that the lack of not publicising W/T hurt them for notice. I posted an article the other day about "The Fake Lesbian Kiss", they couldn't even be bothered to mention W/T by name. Two and half years and the very long article only had this to say:

Quote:

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two young characters in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" explored their budding

sexuality,

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Now perhaps this is because they the nature of the article was negative about lesbians on television, I am not sure. I do need to write the author and ask about it though. But really I am thinking people really didn't know about W/T until just recently.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[urnofosiris]

Ah yeah Rally, that line from that article you posted was sandwiched in between all those fake made-for-the-ratings same sex kisses, as if Willow and Tara are like Ally and Ling. It is part of the ignorance about WT. Those people really have not watched the show and probably only know about it from some hearsay, otherwise I cannot explain it.



Had they recongnized the importance and uniqueness of WT in the past than right now they really would have had something to write about. Certain parts of the (gay) media have been blind to WT, but who matter the most are the viewers I think, and the reactions show the importance of WT to so many people. It may take a few more years for the media to truly catch on, which is a great damned shame, WT deserve so much more from them and from their own creator.

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"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

Edited by: DrG at: 7/4/02 12:39:25 am

[Rally]

It is a shame and granted I came on the scene late... to quote Willow, "Iit wasn't something I was looking for. It's just powerful." So to see it so dismissed as two young girls experimenting, you wonder if these folks are just totally oblivious.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[slayer747]

well, i think it is because these people who write about these topics really don't pay much attention to research. usually, they would just watch one ep and write about it. basing most of their "facts" on what they feel is going to happen (or happened) with the characters...

"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[Hair Annoyed]

I couldn't agree more. I know this has been posted somewhere else on this board, but it bears repeating. On PlanetOut, part of the GLBT community on AOL, the description for the show is as follows:





While comparisons between sexual subcultures and vampires fill many a queer theory book, in the world of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" monsters aren't just homework. At Sunnyvale High School, they creep through the halls and pop up in the locker room.



Based on the campy 1992 underground film, this highly rated Warner Brothers show continues to find devoted fans. Each season perky actress Sarah Michelle Gellar grows more handy with a wooden stake.



Creator/writer Joss Whedon, who wrote the original screenplay, was also nominated for an Oscar for writing Disney's "Toy Story." His talents may be genetic: Whedon's grandfather wrote for "The Donna Reed Show" and "Leave It to Beaver" and his father wrote for "Alice" and "Benson." Who knew where such wholesomeness would lead.



With a bold subplot that found Willow (Alyson Hannigan) and Tara (Amber Benson)'s friendship blossoming into a full-fledged love affair -- complete with co-habitation -- and an earlier gay werewolf storyline, there's plenty for queer fans to enjoy besides the campy horror themes. "Slayspeak," the trendy Gen-X lingo from the show, has even become a part of our culture.



And vampires? They never really die. Buffy will have her work cut out for her.



Cast Credits

Sarah Michelle Gellar also starred in two Kevin Williamson hits: "Scream 2" and "I Know What You Did Last Summer." She won a MTV Movie Award for "Best Kiss" thanks to her steamy liplock with "Cruel Intentions" co-star Selma Blair. Look for her next as Daphne in "Scooby Doo." Former child actress Alyson Hannigan (Willow) co-starred in "American Pie" and its sequel. Nicholas Brendon (Xander) appeared in the wacky comedy "Psycho Beach Party." Seth Green (Oz) played Dr. Evil's son in the mega-hits "Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery" and "The Spy Who Shagged Me."





Now, I ask you, how could any self-respecting gay man or lesbian WHO WATCHES THE SHOW have possibly written that? In fact, how could any PERSON period who watches the show have written that? And the worst part? The accompaning picture is of the cast at the very beginning of season 4 -- no Angel, no Cordelia, NO TARA, but with Oz. They apparently think Oz is still on the show, and did I miss something? When was the "gay werewolf storyline"??! These people were obviously told about W/T sometime during S4 and they quickly threw something together and then just as quickly forgot about it. Fools.