The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 2:54 pm 


posted 11-05-2000 17:54 EST (US)
Here's the place to discuss this week's episode of Family. Try to keep all your comments here until Wednesday afternoon or so.
Enjoy.

My initial comment below.

I'll start. It appears Buffy is not half demon. If Spike could tell that Tara was not half demon from attempting to hit her and he has had big pain when he's attempted to pummel Buffy -- appears Miss Buffy is all human. So much for that speculation on the Slayer origins.

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:04 pm 


posted 11-05-2000 18:04 EST (US)
Zelda you might be right about that.. hmm..
I loved the way they handled the fact that the scoobies haven't really had a chance to get to know Tara (much like the audience), couldn't even think of what to buy her. I think we are going to see that change. I also suspect Tara might be allowed to blossom now.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:34 pm 


posted 11-05-2000 18:34 EST (US)
I hope she's included more also.

My favorite piece of dialogue was when the father talked about how she didn't even bother to hide her "toys" anymore. They thought that she might grow out of this witchy stuff if she went off to college. Now, that was a good use of witch/wicca in a metaphorical or perhaps even euphamistic way.

The attempted humorous approach used in the dialogue employed by Xander and Anya was the part I liked least. I hope we'll hear less of that usage in the future. I don't find it funny or offensive, just dumb.

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:48 pm 


posted 11-05-2000 18:48 EST (US)
YEs Zelda the latter reference is done for humor only, just to use it as a joke. On the other hand Tara's family, the whole thing was an allegory for being gay in a lot of ways. I know Joss doesn't want to preach or make it political. Instead he makes it subtle. I too loved the "toys" line. It reminds me how, the one thing I liked about that Deep Space Nine ep when Lenara and Dax kissed. The Trills were freaked and what was nice is that they made it about the taboo of them getting together in their new bodies. In that way, they make homosexuality accepted in their world but they still manage to show and expose the irrationality of homophobia.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 11:09 pm 


posted 11-06-2000 02:09 EST (US)
One comment before I go back to homework:

It's too... pat. Too easy. I keep on waiting for the other shoe to drop. Did anyone see Tara (or as it were, not see her) when she cast the spell? Do we *know*? And what about her mother and grandmother? What happened that made her believe the "family lie"?

I'm happy, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm betting Tara's past will continue to be explored. Hope so.

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2000 11:54 pm 


posted 11-06-2000 02:54 EST (US)
I am not andygirl. I am happy because the lie, the secret is out. Tara has released all she knows. Now she can go on a self discovery journey and find out who she is, or explore her past and see where she fits in. Good or bad, the secret is out. i hated that she was keeping something from Willow. Whatever happens now, we are sure that Tara's intentions are true. That her real self (honest nice Tara) is there and that's her core.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 12:22 am 


posted 11-06-2000 03:22 EST (US)
My hope though is that now that Tara doesn't have to be afraid of her power that it will develop naturally and that she'll find out that she can do as much as Willow. She does seem to have some extra special powers that she hasn't fully explored. Now she can.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 12:29 am 


posted 11-06-2000 03:29 EST (US)
Thismay seem trivial but whose room are Will and Tara sleeping in? I am assuming it's Tara's room. I can't tell because that part of the clip is really distorted.

-----

Zelda I still maintain that Tara is a lot more powerful that Willow. But as you said she hasn't showen us her full potential yet.
And I to beliebve she has some very special hidden talent. This is truly a turn around episode.

------------------
Paula
--------
Amber FanGirl #1a
May the Amber Force be with you.

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 7:36 am 


posted 11-06-2000 10:36 EST (US)
I think it was Willow's room.

Do you guys remember that comment about the censorship concerning the bed. Here's the Full Interview

quote:

[on-screen same-sex kissing] i don't think so. we're actually not allowed to do much beause we're on at 8pm in america and there's rules, i guess, about certain elements. (jen: "but buffy is allowed to kiss riley...") yeah, exactly. no, it's ridiculous and hypocritical. we did a scene recently where we were both going to sleep or something and getting into bed and the network freaks out and they were like 'they're not going to be under the covers and da-da-da'. so, i mean, it's airing tuesday and it's going to to be interesting to see what actually got passed. we had to do a few different versions. we had to do one where we finished the scene before, like i was in bed before tara got under the sheets and i don't know what will pass. but, y'know, in that same episode you've got spike and harmony just going at it like rabbits, so it's very hypocritical.

Anyone up for seeing the uncesored version???? And don't you love that line, or something?

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 8:55 am 


posted 11-06-2000 11:55 EST (US)
I suspect that the version that airs is in fact the uncensored version. Aly said they had to do a few different versions, but considering what the blipvert mpeg shows, Joss seems to have won that particular battle.

-len

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 1:20 pm 


posted 11-06-2000 16:20 EST (US)
Who knows? Maybe there was an "or something" version that was even better.

HANDS

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2000 1:21 pm 


posted 11-06-2000 16:21 EST (US)
Perhaps Dawn's gratuitous "alcohol is for losers" comment during the party scene was Joss's trade-off for getting the W/T snugglies in. Hey, it's a thought. And if that's what worked, I'm all for it.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:43 am 


posted 11-07-2000 04:43 EST (US)
So, who is going to be the first to identify the song at the end -- "I can't take my eyes off of you?" Joss is a big ole sap. No doubt of that now.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 7:23 am 


posted 11-07-2000 10:23 EST (US)
Joss is such a sap. I love him. I wanna marry him. Oh he's married. Too bad! Let's start a joss cult Ahh that song. It can be our theme here at the kitten.. sigh.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 7:26 am 


posted 11-07-2000 10:26 EST (US)
By a curious coincidence I was listening to an old Queen tape while reading "Family" spoilers and the song "I Want to Break Free" started up. And I couldn't help thinking how much the first two verses seemed to apply to Tara in this ep.

I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free.

I've fallen in love
I've fallen in love for the first time
And this time I know it's for real
I've fallen in love, yeah
God knows, God knows I've fallen in love.

[This message has been edited by LordBowler (edited 11-07-2000).]

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:47 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 16:47 EST (US)
I'll answer my own question about who is singing the song at the end. Got it from the WB and includes a nice picture of the girls.

On the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Family" Willow and Tara have a sweet, romantic dance to I Can't Take My Eyes Off You by Melanie Doane. This Canadian singer/songwriter serves up an enchanting line-up on her album Adam's Rib. Sounding at times like Sarah McLachlan, Melanie Doane weaves ethereal harmonies on songs like Sweet Sorrow and asserts her authority in the title track, Adam's Rib. The album mixes classic sounds with just the right amount of studio manipulation and a Celtic feel to create an interesting new twist.



Melanie Doane grew up in a musical family in Nova Scotia. She began playing the violin at age 3 and from there went on to learn a number of different instruments including piano, ukulele and stand-up bass. She went to college to study voice, but decided to leave school to pursue theater. Eventually she started to write her own music and found her calling. After releasing a commercially disappointing indie album, Doane packed her things and moved to L.A. where she recorded Adam's Rib. The album was a great commercial success in Canada, and won her a Juno Award (the Canadian equivalent of the Grammys) for Best New Artist.


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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 6:06 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 21:06 EST (US)
Excuse me while I scream for a moment...

OH MY GOD! I LOVED THAT EPISODE!!!!!! I WANT WILLOW AND/OR TARA!!!!!!!

Ok, screaming over. On a calmer note...

I LOVED IT!

Wait, that wasn't calmer. Damn. Oh well, I don't have any calm left in me! Watching them just makes me so happy and smilie and joyful and such nonsense! Why can't I have a relationship like theirs? I would KILL for that! I just LOVE them! Ok, well, I guess I don't actually have anything of use to say. But my god I just love them to death!

-caitlin

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 6:11 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 21:11 EST (US)
All I can sawis *awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww*
and AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

that was the best episode ever.. pouty willow.. upportive willow.. the gang standing up for our Tara and the look on her face when Buffy did that... Ohmyohmyohmyohmyohmy!

Can those two GET any more adorable?

Andloving Alyson's hair tonight, she and Amber both looked great!

------------------
Cece0211
http://dawna.itgo.com/
I've learned that you cannot make someone love you.
All you can do is stalk them and hope they panic and give in.

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 6:13 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 21:13 EST (US)
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...oh wow...

that was just about the cutest thing i've ever seen...

that last scene was just...wow...

i gotta say, unspoiled is the best way to go...

i'm gonna have to let this one sink in a bit more before saying anything about it that isn't an exclamation of pure joy...

they are SO CUTE!!!!!

awwwwwwwwwww...

april

in a little puddle on the floor

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 6:52 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 21:52 EST (US)
Usually I don't post my thoughts on an ep until I've watched it a couple of times, but of course this one is an exception and I just gotta say THANX JOSS for getting all sappy and emotional - it's a good way to get every now and then.

WELCOME BACK MS KITTY FANTASTICO! Once again, she proves to be a more interesting character than Riley. And she ushered in a bed scene that I was so incredibly surprised by. As every second went by of them getting under the sheets and moving closer I became more and more amazed and ecstatic. Mail will be sent.

A few random thoughts:
1.) Ben has a hairless chest and thus looks like a human vienna sausage; why do Buffy men have no chest hair? Small beef.
2.) Speaking of beef, I was naughtily excited by the site of Xander and Riley getting a little wrestling action on in Buffy's room. Does this make me a bad person?
3.) Speaking of Buffy's room - what the Hell? I thought she already was living at home! We saw her in a dorm room once this season and I assumed it was Riley's.
4.) So many great moments with the gang in this ep. Family indeed (the family that slays together stays together). Suave Xander is kicking my ass with the way he fits in more with the gang this season
5.) I love Dawn. I love the way that Buffy has accepted her a little more now.
6.) The Spike copulation scene was so brilliantly naughty. Sex works better on the show when it's clever like this.
7.) Invisible demons were very scary - that was really a gripping scene for me. Almost too scary, because it made it slightly unbelievable that they would protect Tara after putting them through that.
8.) The dance. The floating. The choking up. The watering eyes. The sight of me alone in my apartment giving the tv a 2 minute standing ovation.

I agree with a lot of folx who say this ep was a little slow and maybe too syrupy sweet, but I think it more than compensated with the quality 'family' moments and the genuine romance of w/t.

[This message has been edited by darvangi (edited 11-08-2000).]

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 7:30 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 22:30 EST (US)
I am so so glad I stayed spoiler free for this episode. It was so emotional, so romantic. My emotions were all over the map. I was upbeat when I saw the bedroom scene, but then when I saw Tara's family and the effect of the spell I thought that Willow and the Scoobies might turn on Tara. The way they came to her defence and the final scene with Willow and Tara dancing just took my breath away.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 7:33 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 22:33 EST (US)
Kaboomie's comments Transferred from another thread:

**I'm not going to reiterate the storyline but I do think that despite being Joss produced, the show was a bit slow. I think he wanted Tara's "coming out" to be perfect which I think it was It has to be the sweetest thing I've seen on TV that hasn't given me cavities. Here's a question: Does anyone feel like it left more questions that it answered? The Riley subplot was so toss away, did we need it? The demon subplot was okay. What *did* happen to Tara's mom? Was she a witch? Did Tara see her mom as a demon if her mom turned into one when she hit 20? Where is her mom now? I think there's a good chance that Spike could of faked the head pain just because he can be an arse sometimes. There are a few people in the Usenet Buffy NG saying: That's it? And I also see many people taking everything at face value, but I get a really weird feeling that there is more to Tara and her storyline. Anyone have that nagging feeling? Or did Joss do that on purpose?

Well, that said, this was a brilliant if groundbreaking bit of television.

kaboomie

[This message has been edited by xita (edited 11-07-2000).]

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 8:29 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 23:29 EST (US)
I also had a 'That's IT?!?' reaction. Sorry. Kinda anti-climactic.
Not to say there wasn't a lot we could talk on about for the next 15 months...
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 8:35 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 23:35 EST (US)
a few thots:
Loved it! put a big smile on my face.bed scene
did ya notice riley wasnt in the family scene? was that on purpose? i really hope he joins the army and leaves!
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 8:50 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 23:50 EST (US)
He's already in the army! And he hasn't left for them yet...wait I think he resigned. Dang.
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 8:56 pm 


posted 11-07-2000 23:56 EST (US)
Well, I'm still in my watching for watching's sake mode here. I thoroughly enjoyed this ep from beginning to end. I knew it was going to be a great one when it started with little Miss Kitty Fantastico playing then sequed to our girls cuddling in bed.

And what about that little scene with Spike and Harmony having sex. Whoops!

The demons at the end were rather freaky as I guess demons should be. I especially got the chills when the one was sniffing around little Dawn. And I could have done without that tongue thing.

LOVED the whole scene of the party. Gorgeous song and the floating thing....LOVED IT! Soooo sweet.

Favorite quote of the night comes from Giles to Buffy and Xander. "You're in a magic shop and you can't think what Tara would like. I believe you're both profoundly stupid." I laughed so hard at that!!

Okay. Gotta watch Angel now.

Stella

[This message has been edited by Stella by Starlight (edited 11-08-2000).]

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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:11 pm 


posted 11-08-2000 01:11 EST (US)
gotta say that was an alltime fav episode! As for the question posted "what about tara's mum" well, one could see that if the family knew how to keep the demon side "under control", then tara may never have seen her mum as a demon, but just knew it was hidden there. And if mumsie decided it was all BS - she could have :
- escaped w/ her very life, and may show up sometime later and regret having abandoned her daughter

or
Dear ol Dad bumped off mumsie for getting too uppity, and told tara mum went all demon and had to be destroyed.

meanwhile, over to the bronze to see what's the haps.


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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:23 pm 


posted 11-08-2000 01:23 EST (US)
This was one of the sweetest and most endearing episodes ever of Buffy. I love the mood that Tara and Willow put me in, a mood of happiness that knows no bounds. Will never be able to get the dance out of my head and the whole gang proclaiming they are family to Tara's messed up family. Been posting at the bronze this evening and most all comments have been good, I am now overjoyed! It's all coming into focus!
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 10:51 pm 


posted 11-08-2000 01:51 EST (US)
You all are so lucky you got to watch the show tonight! I have to wait til tomorrow because Angel is shown today but BUFFY is on Wednesdays at 5pm.
#)
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 Post subject: Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2000 11:25 pm 


posted 11-08-2000 02:25 EST (US)
After watching the episode again something caught my attention. Mr. Maclay said that Tara's family had taken care of her for 18 years, but its her 20 birthday.

Is that a clue? what about that missing year. Or is it just the year she was in Sunnydale?

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