Views about tara

[Tara22]

I have to say that I'm with KISMIC, thank goodness no one I know has something really against Amber, cause god help em if they did...



as I have said before people can be SO stupid sometimes, it's weird how things they do can totally contradict other things they do...

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?

Willow: Magic

[Urn of Osiris]

OK here I go and I hope I'm not offensive.



I watched BTVS for Aly. I love her talent and She's just Damn Sweet. I loved her relationship with Oz because it made Willow happy. I was Pissed that he left because he left her. I had no real attachment to him.



I hate sad Willow. I was excited when Tara was introduced as a "friend" mostly because it made Willow excited. I had little care romantically, cause hey Buffy's her friend too. No Big.



OK, so this is where it gets tricky for me. As a straight woman I was fascinated by the depth of their relationship. I watched them grow as individuals strengthed by each other. Where one was weak the other was strong. A real and honest relationship. Becoming vulnerable to each other during serious conflict and tender to the needs of each other. I loved Tara for Loving Willow.



The more I watched the more I wanted to see them together. I didn't care what else was happening in the ep. For me it was the W/T show. So for me Tara changed the way I see love. I see how two people fell in love with spirit, strength of character, vulnerability, and insecurity. That is what a relationship is. Then I see two women, and I say to myself. Wow I'm watching two women in love with each other and I can relate to that relationship. Not because of gender but because of their emotional bond.



And then I watched them ripped apart. It broke me. Not because it broke Willow, but because one of the most honest representations of emotional and spiritual love ended.



I love Tara more now than I love Willow, because she softened a part of who I was. I understand now how love grows beyond lables and limits. I appreciate human beings for who they are not what they do. Their relationship opened me up to the reality that love is love and no part of that can ever be wrong.



And I realize now that I'm hummin OT, but Tara changed alot of things for me and Love is one of them.

Urn of Osiris
_________________**

"Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses."
— George Washington Carver
Voice your opinion about Tara http://www.petitiononline.com/Tara/petition.html

[KISMIC]

Can I just say 'Amen' to what Urn of Osiris said...'Cause it pretty much sums it up and in such an eloquent way that nothing I say on the subject could beat it !

[Tara22]

I second that!

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Willow Rocks]

Yeah not to sound the same as everyone else but right on Urn of Osiris

[WillowPowered]

Bravo Urn of Osiris - hit the nail right on the head.

~~~~~~~~

Willow - Say, you all didn't happen to do a bunch of drugs did ya?

Willow - I don't do wild. Wild on me equals spaz.

[Sheridan]

From the moment in Hush where Tara says, "No you are." I was rooting for her; I'm a straight white male whose been through David & Maddie, Sam & Diane, Niles & Daphne, but never have I felt so strongly about a TV couple as I did about Willow and Tara. tara wasn't weak, she was shy, she wasn't dull, she was solid and centred, and god knows the Scooby gang needed that in S5 and 6. Tra was the groups conscience, look at what happend after she split with Willow, it's no coincidence that everything fell apart then.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Hemiola]

Actually, I'm very intrigued by the possibility brought up by Hair Annoyed, i.e., of Willow being gay from the "get-go". Joss Whedon said in an interview that he made Willow Jewish to "emphasize her 'apartness' from everyone else at Sunnydale High". Come to think of it, why couldn't he have made her gay as well?



Consider this--let's go back to a famous bit of dialogue from Season I/1 ("WTTH"). What if instead of "the softer side of Sears", the dialogue had gone something like this--



Cordelia: Willow! Still staying away from the boys? Not that I need to worry about any competition from you in that outfit. Oh well, I'm sure someone is bound to notice you in gym class!



I think this would have added a very interesting dimension to the character. But why stop there, what if it turned out that she was indeed noticed by a girl in gym class--none other than a certain Miss Tara McLay!



I have no doubt that this would have changed the view of both characters if they had been introduced in this manner rather than as they actually were. Sadly, the characters were made "gay by default" (i.e. no more Seth Green), hence the unremitting hostility on the part of some people.

[Tara22]

oh! that would have been such a good way for Joss to have done it!



but sadly he didn't...

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Sheridan]

Quote:

---

oh! that would have been such a good way for Joss to have done it!



but sadly he didn't...

---

No he didn't but you can always pop over to Pens and see any number of takes on the way it could have been...

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Tara22]

Sheridan: thanks for that! but I assure you, the Pens is like my second home already!!

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Sheridan]

No problem Tara22 And of course there is the moment in 'Prophecy Girl' when Xander is trying to ask Buffy out and he say "Well if Willow is planning on asking you out she's playing it pretty close to her chest"(probably not the exact quote, but close enough), When I saw reruns of that after Hush it always cracked me up.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Tara22]

thanks for that!

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[KISMIC]

"Well if Willow is planning on asking you out she's playing it pretty close to her chest"





Ohh God every single Buffy/Willow shipper is sure that, that line is a shout out that B/W were/are/will be/wanted to be together :rollseyes: Sometimes quotes have deeper meanings...sometimes it's just a quote!

[Tara22]

B/W shippers? I didn't know they even existed, although, i suppose thinking that they didn't would make me naive, since they have every other shipper possible!

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Hair Annoyed]

Oh, Urnnie, that's so sweet. And so true. I was actually ambivalent about Tara in the beginning. On the one hand I found her somewhat irritating as others have but I also loved her because she was going to be the one to bring Willow into the fold, where I felt W belonged all along. I thought that she was just a more extreme version of early Willow and I didn't understand why they made her that way. Then I began to feel that she was there to not only help in Willow's growth in magical power but also to show how much Willow had grown in convidence by way of comparison. Then I noticed that where Willow was still quite flighty at times Tara was grounded and stable. Then they began to show her humorous side and I really loved her as an individual. I honestly believe that most people who watch the show experienced a similar arc in coming to like and appreciate the character. I don't believe most people hate her, and of those that do I don't believe all are homophobic. Some are, but happily they are in the minority.



I have long believed that Willow was, and should have been shown to be, a lesbian from the very beginning. Partially, it was because of little subtexty things like that quote from Xander and the softer side of sears thing. I mean, I just felt she was going to be one of those characters who gives off a gay vibe but who is never shown to be gay because of the fear of controversy. You know the kind... destined to have many a slash fic written about her. But then when Tara came along I was overjoyed. But I thought "why couldn't they have done this earlier?" It would have been so much more effective as a way to show Willow's outsiderness even among her friends then being Jewish was. I mean, aside from a few jokes around Christmastime when did Willow's Jewishness ever become apparent?

[KISMIC]

Tara22 - You didn't know about B/W shippers? They've been around since forever. I actually have a friend who is one so...Yay, I'm constantly hearing about them. But I guess it's fair I go on about W/T.

[Tara22]

shamefully, I had no clue about em...

weird... (that I didn't know)

ha! your friend is one? that has got to make some great debates!

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Anne860]

Quote:

---

From the moment in Hush where Tara says, "No you are." I was rooting for her; I'm a straight white male whose been through David & Maddie, Sam & Diane, Niles & Daphne, but never have I felt so strongly about a TV couple as I did about Willow and Tara.

---

Y'know, all these views on Tara are really great, but what I find really fascinating are the sheer variety of people holding them. It's interesting to note the number of straight, gay, male, female, etc..., who like Tara. (Also, it blows the whole "angry lesbian knee-jerk reaction" theory that Mutant Enemy is using to explain the backlash completely out of the water.)



I have a friend, Ken McIsaac, who loves Tara. I once asked him why he liked her so much, and he replied that when she was first introduced, he really identified with her shyness, because he often felt the same in unfamiliar situations.



I guess that Tara is one of those characters whose appeal lies in her accessibility. Fans like her because they identify with her, unlike some of the other characters, such as Spike or Anya. We may like the style of these characters and, in Anya's case, even feel sorry for them, but they're always a tad distant from us, like a team we root for. Tara, Willow, Buffy (well Buffy the way she used to be), on the other hand, tend to be characters whose struggles we see in our own lives, which makes us bond with them a little deeper than we do with the others.



I suspect that all the people who thought of Tara as being bland and not really interesting are people who like characters that make a splashy impression on the screen. They tend to look for subtlety and layers second. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that different people look for different things when they watch a show. So what do y'all think?

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen, and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison.

Edited by: Anne860 at: 9/22/02 2:24:32 am

[Tara22]

wow! you are SO spot on!!

I aggee with you totally! the sheer diversity of the people who love Tara speaks for itself, She is one of those characters that many people can relate too. If not on shyness level, on many others, there are plenty aspects of Tara's personality that are true and real, unlike some of the other characters. as much as people love the others (like you said, spike? Anya?) they, in most cases can't really relate to them. To me, I think Tara might even be the most real character, disaggree if you want but looking at Tara's life (seeing the fact that she saw herself as a demon as she saw herself as worthless or not worthy of peoples time (just analysing it a bit)) I think that most people could identify to one aspect of her.

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[KISMIC]

Uhh I don't know, much like I'll *never*, *ever* like Riley, it's the same with some people and Tara. To each their own I guess. I actually can't really associate with Tara on any level and yet I still love her, or maybe it's because I learned to love Amber before Tara. Another reason to like Tara is she's the 'under-dog', everything comes out against her and so you can't help but hope that she'll get her fair share of happiness!...Did this post have any point at all, I'm not too sure!

[Chino6069]

Kismic said: Well actually in most countries outside of the US Tara really was only known as 'the lesbian' from the very beginning because we get Buffy *months* after it airs in the US and so rumours about it were EVERYWHERE!...Just sayin'.. "



LOL I know, I'm in the UK and it was the reason we started watching the show full time - we had heard those rumours too. Up to then we were only occasional viewers. But even with that we still didn't think that way.



I did think she was annoying at first, but I thought that too about Gabrielle in Xena in the beginning and as with Tara - I ended up loving her more than anything else in the shows.

[Tara22]

I can see what you mean Kristy. For sure, people who don't identify with her would still love her. perhaps for the underdog thing, I don't like to see her as an underdog, the word underdog sounds so sad and pathetic, and I love Tara, she's alot more than just sad and pathetic



so yeah...

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

Edited by: Tara22 at: 9/22/02 2:45:42 am

[KISMIC]

OT for a second - Chino6069 you didn't like Gabrielle? Shame,, shame, shame : ...Not that I, uh, ever watched Xena :P


And as soon as 'New Moon Rising' aired in the US every single magazine about Aly/Willow/BTVS had articles titled 'Who will she choose: Witchy Wiccan Tara or Wolfy Oz' and 'Willows witchy pal Tara casts a spell on Willow'. Lmao, soo very lame but they made it pretty clear what was happening. Much like when it was thought that Tara was a demon.





Also I didn't mean sad and pathetic when I said Tara was an underdog. It's more like no matter how hard she tries life just kept on throwing bad things her way. However an underdog keeps on trying so....

[Tara22]

Oh! no! I didn't mean that you said that! sorry, I meant that the word underdog feels like that to me! I mean, I 100% see were you are coming from! In the actual sense of the word Tara was the underdog, but still I just try to focus on the good stuff, like happy Tara and Willow



OT: Ok, Gabrielle? I never got Zena either.... well, I understood the first two seasons but then it got all confusing and sad to say I wasn't able to continue watching anyway...

Tara: Every time I... even when I'm at my worst, you
always make me feel special. How
do you do that?





Willow: Magic

[Anne860]

KISMIC: Well, Riley was never really accessible if you ask me. He was basically brought in to be Normal Guy With No Issues, and because of that, there wasn't anything about him you could identify with. Like Anya, Riley was painted with broad brushstrokes, but unlike Anya, the picture they made was rather dull. Did that make sense?



Tara, on the other hand (a Willowhand you might say), was a different story. From the first episode she appeared in, people were talking about her on the boards, wondering about her feelings for Willow, and--most telling of all--speculating about her past history. To me, this is a huge indicator that you've got a good character on your hands. It means the fans see her as more than just a one note character who was brought in to be Willow's love interest. I don't think anyone cared one whit about Riley's history. Of course, when people began to actually write fanfic about Tara's past (my friend Ken among them) I knew this Tara character was a keeper.



The fact that you like Tara because she's something of an underdog, is really kind of my point. I think a lot of people tend to love the underdog because they know what it's like to be one. I got picked on a lot in school, so whenever I see someone getting bullied or intimidated on tv or in a movie I tend to sympathize with them even if I hadn't before. In fact, this is how I first got hooked on Willow. When I found out that she was smart and kinda-geeky-but-in-a-cool-way it made me love her even more.



Tara22: Thanks! I'm glad you liked my post. And you're right, Tara is very realistic and believable. I do like Anya, and relate to her a little, (I wanted to beat up Xander after what he did) but I don't identify with her the way I identified with Willow, or more recently Tara, mainly because I haven't experienced the problems that she's had. Tara and Willow's lives are little more universal, you could say.

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen, and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison.

[KISMIC]

Anne860, I understand what you're saying, Riley was brought in as this perfect, 'can-do-no-wrong' kinda guy and to be honest who can relate to that.


However one thing I disagree with you on is that Tara's character *was* brought in as a character to just be Willow's love interest. Up until they broke up in 'Tabula Rasa' I can't even remember a single scene where there was Tara without Willow. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the fact that they never showed another side to Tara than when she was Willow really didn't provide a backstory to her. You had to have noticed that ALOT of people began liking Tara after she and Willow broke up due to the fact that she finally had scenes with other characters and had almost her own story.


Anyway what I'm thinking is hard to explain so I'll just leave it there Here's hoping this makes sense to someone other than me!

[Mrs Vertigo]

She was just so underused the entire 5 season. it's a shame, really.



But what I find the most appealing about Tara is that she seems... older... wiser? more mature and 'real' than the rest of them. Sometimes you just have those moments on BtVS that are, lets face it, American TV period. Tara never has those. Every expression or anything she sayes... real life. Its like she exist on a whole different level than Xander.



And Riely was a friggin cart board figure. When he didn't bore to death he was just an annoyance.

---
“You know, if you weren’t such a bitch-queen from hell you and I would’ve gotten along just fine” – Me making with the friendly at Glory, in a dream where I was Buffy and she was crucifying me.

[The Host]

well coming from a guy that was raised in a home where the father,couldn't express emotion at all.And who's the biggest racist/homophobe you could ever want to meet

I heard the *F word* a lot growing up,you know the one I mean.I wasn't into sports as much as dad thought I should be

It's a miracle that I'm still here...

so at least Intolerance and Ignorance (wait,kinda the same thing) aren't genetic



Willow & Tara 4-ever

**I guess you'll always be a mystery to me,cause we just can't be

But you taught me to value love,and what else do I need**

Edited by: The Host  at: 9/23/02 2:14:08 am

[themagicpixie]

They could have done a lot more with Tara's character but sadly she was always there to interact with Willow rather than being a character in her own right, and that's why she gets killed off when they want to send Willow over the edge - Tara is seen as utterly dispensable.



Tara is a big cult figure now though, for both gay and straight viewers, whereas she started off as just a secondary character on "Buffy". Have you noticed how on this board there seems to be more chat about Amber & Tara than AH & Willow? AH is a fantastic actress and I love Willow but Tara is definitely more of a cult figure because she has always been on the sidelines in Buffy, been missing from the credits etc. and also I guess because she has always been a bit mysterious in some ways.