Restless - Revisted ... again

[xita]

We used to have several threads (deletion bug hit) and I know this keeps coming up and what with what's coming I thought I'd make a new one, plus we got a question that would fit here

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"Everthing's just turning out so dark..."
"No, it's okay. Lost is good. Willow and I always know how to find each other!"

I

[willow]

Well for people who don't believe that the addiction storyline was coming, there's the whole catnip thing in Yoko Factor, you have a catnip problem. Also, in Restless it is clear, though for along time I didn't think it would come to pass, that Willow would have to go through something that Tara couldn't help her with. Not only that in the end she would have to face her inner geek and all the things she hated about herself. After restless I wondered what Willow could go through that Tara couldn't help her with. We got our answer didn't we? Also, I wonder how that whole play stuff works with what we know now.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited February 19, 2002).]

I

[willow]

Absolutely SWRD,

First thing first about Restless.
Damn if Tara/Amber didn't look great in this!

I think now it is very obvious that this was about season 6. There was spirit-guide Tara saying "Be back before Dawn", which of course we know is a season 5 spoiler, of course the "You think you know what you are" speech, and the refernce to season 3's 730; Buffy's very own death clock.

But the Willow scenes are all 6th season. I also wondered what it was that Tara could not help Willow with. Now we know.
One line seems to stick out though for me. Tara's true-name.
Willow asks Tara about her true-name. Now we all know about the aborted Tara is a demon, Tara is a wood sprite, story line and this might be a ref to that. But, this is comming from Willow's dream. What is it that Willow knows about Tara that no one else does? More on that later...

Xander's dream. I also think this points to season 6. Everyone else is moving ahead. The upcomming battle with parents, Anya wanting to get back into vengance. These could all point to things that seem to be brewing. Buffy calling him "big brother" is also very telling. He has no chance with her anymore. Nor Willow, who has Tara, nor Giles who has Randy, I mean Spike.
BTW. Synder and Xander in the 'Apocylspe Now' scene. God I laughed so hard. Shot Mt. Dew out of my nose when I first saw that! Brilliant.

Giles. Obvious he feels that it is time to move on. But we got that in Season 5 as well.

Now here is a bit I want to throw at you. Tara was not there in the Summers' home, but she was in the dreams (save for Giles), what if Tara was actually in the dreams herself. That is she was there, much like everyone else was, not a guide, not an image. This would mean that Tara is very powerful, but also point to her as the stablizing effect she has on the group. She was not in Giles' dream, because she is due to replace him.
Maybe I have been reading too many Lisa fics.

Cheese man. That means nothing. Because sometime dreams don't make any sense.

Of course there was nothing on the whole Buffy-Spike boink fest. Nothing on Xander and Anya's wedding.

I agree with Xita on this, the magical addiction storyline was a primary one, not one that was brought in to replace another story. I personally am just groing a little tired with it.

Restless. Easily one of the best eps.

Warlock.

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--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

I

[willow]

i really love the tarathespiritguide forshadowing. i dont know if they will do subtextual otherworld powery stuff with that. it really doesnt matter. the fact of the matter is that buffy and tara's friendship progression is great. they started out with buffy being uncomfortable around tara where she didnt seem to really want to go to her bday party. then her mother dies and tara is the one who is the most there for her emotionally. and from personal experience i can say that spending time with someone else who has felt a similar loss can be amazingly helpful. i still believe (or hope that the writing will go in the direction of) buffys grief over her mother being connected strongly with her self hating behavior and that tara can help with some of this mess.

I

[willow]

I'd agree that Tara does have natural intuition and a kind of magic sixth sense - I think because she's been practicing magic for so long, she sees things Willow misses.

I'm not really into with the idea that she has a hidden purpose - I think the point of 'Family' and her role in 'The Body' is that we were able to really get to know her character fully. I'm pretty certain the 'real name' thing was just a reference to 'Family', and that it's now been resolved.

I

[willow]

RE: the Sappho poem - I believe it translates as the first and a half stanzas. If one reads Syrillic or Greek, the name "Aphrodite" is clear, which matches the first part of the this when "Restless" first aired.

RE: "Tara's true name" - good points about the magical/occult meanings, BUT Joss et al have stated they only use "real" magical definitions occasionally and most of their mythology is made up - accurate to real Wicca or not - to best fit the story.

IMO, that line refers to Tara being a normal human (as was revealed in S5 "Family") - not a demon or otherwise mystical creature, which was the prevailing belief at the time "Restless" aired.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited February 20, 2002).]

I

[willow]

Again, those of you who are discussing the true name thing and whether it meant that Tara was/is hiding something don't seem to be addressing the fact that when Willow asks if Tara has told her her real name, Tara says "Oh, you know that." "That" meaning Tara's real name. So how is she hiding anything this way, then or now?

I used to really want Tara to be some sort of guide sent by whoever to help Buffy, because I thought it would give her a clear purpose on the show, make her "essential"...and shut the mouths of those who kept saying she wasn't. Much like Willow, I wanted a supernatural, and hence easy, solution. What we got was much harder, but ultimately much better: over the course of the last season and a half, Tara--plain old human Tara, with a modicum of witchy power and a bucketload of wisdom, kindness, and quiet strength--has slowly, almost imperceptibly, become the emotional center of the Scoobies. Without them, or many of the fans, realizing it, she has become essential. And the fact that it was done the slow and difficult way makes it infinitely more important, and real.

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"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."

I

[willow]

School hard was on last night and some of Buffy's dream was in the episode. Joyce through the hole in the wall.

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Beep, beep

I

[whitenight922]

I think you all think too much. I never would have come up with half of that, even now that much of it came to pass.



Still the episode was more a prophecy than a dream, in my mind. It seems to me that the dreamer's subconscious didn't have complete control of it. Many people here were saying that what was in Willow's dream, had to be from inside Willow. I disagree. This is most supported by the cheese man. If he represents anything, it's a connection between them all, or an outside force connecting the dreams. The first Slayer was too, but we know why she was there.



I'm not sure the fact that the first Slayer chose Tara to borrow has any specific significance, but it could.



I also want to point out that in Intervention, the form of the first Slayer was also borrowed. Chances are she wasn't speaking English, but communicating with Buffy's mind directly, like telepathy. I've heard some theories that telepathy doesn't require . . . how do I say this. If you read someone's mind, you don't have to know their language.



That's all I can think to say for now!

[girlwiththebraids]

quote

I also want to point out that in Intervention, the form of the first Slayer was also borrowed. Chances are she wasn't speaking English, but communicating with Buffy's mind directly, like telepathy. I've heard some theories that telepathy doesn't require . . . how do I say this. If you read someone's mind, you don't have to know their language.

/quote



that's pretty factually true...because you can speak to someone's mind in emotions and words that transcend language...especially in dreams, because boundaries in the subconscious can be crossed in dreams even if your waking self denies that they can



braids

"Is she your sister?"

"She's my everything."



"Would that mean we have to snuggle?"



"Oh...Oh! It's not a...gay...thing...I mean...she is...gay...but we don't...gay...Not that there's anything..."

[PandoraSpocks]

I watched 'Restless' awhile back, but I noticed that Snider said "the blood of the lamb" in Xanders dream and also in Xanders dream, while climbing through the ice cream truck, on the wall is printed "Sheep". What do you all think this means. Is it implying that Xander is Sheepish or is it refering to Willow killing the deer for it's blood to resurrect Buffy or both, or is it something more. Any thoughts

[Moridin]

whiteknight

....the cheese man. If he represents anything....



joss has stated time and again that the chese man means nothing at all, he's just to show that dreams have meaningless things in them, which I guess means he means something... hmm (fyi, that confused joss when he was saying it to *g*). everything else though, has a double meaning, or triple perhaps to.

[MoMack]

I was watching Tabula Rasa again (not just fast-forwarding to the sewer scene...ahem) and I was amazed that the suit Spike was wearing was the same one he was wearing in Restless on the swing. Dang, that's some quality continuity!

[Faithful Glory]

well now, i know its been discussed a bunch but here i go again. after restless - much after - people were trying to figure out the symbolism of everything and decided that the chesse man meant nothing. i think joss himself might have even said that. but i've figured it out.



i wasnt in any way searching for an answer, but we just started reading 'death of a salesmen' in class. this was the play going on in, i think, willow's dream. in the opening of the play there is a whole dialouge about cheese. yup, all abouts the cheese. american too, like he had on his little plate. in the play cheese 'represents' change. therefore...cheese man bringin' the change.



thoughts?

it just occured to me so i had to write about it.

[Lindy]

Thats really unfair. I mean, I remember reading Death Of A Salesman at highschool, but I only remember that the name of the main charactor was Loman or something (ask Riley for that one ) and it was supposed to represent his insecurities or low state.. (see, I cant even remember it properly). If I had known that I'd need it later in my life for really important issues, like interpreting a TV show.. I wouldnt have payed more attention either, because the part I remember most about it was that it was part of my english class.

And that included my plainly stupid teacher which lead to pure boredom.. but thats slightly off-topic already, so excuse my rambling

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Are hamsters made out of ham?

[Hemiola]

Well, actually the cheese man makes a certain amount of sense. Think about it: as I see it, the cheese represents the Slayer, so the cheese man demonstrates the other characters' relationships to the Slayer.



1. The cheese man tells Willow "I've made a space for the cheese slices." This could be read as "The Slayer will always have a place in your life."



2. The cheese man tells Xander "These [i.e. the cheese slices] will not protect you." This could be read as saying "The Slayer will not always be around to protect you."



3. The cheese man tells Giles "I wear the cheese, it does not wear me." Umm...perhaps "You are dependent upon the Slayer, she is not dependent on you."?



4. The cheese man waves his slices at Buffy. Seems like he's saying "This represents you".



Well, that's my take on it, anyway.

[Gloryp3mrs]

first, hehe, cheese man



anyhoo, i think there definetely has to be more with at least two tara aspects from restless.

1) the guideness. maybe its as simple as her helping buffy with this spike shit, though

2) tara saying exactly what dracula said to buffy. thats just creepy.



and willow has had nightmares about being onstage unprepared before. what can we make of it in general? not as just a restless thing

[Epicurus]

I had this whole theory in which I thought that each character shared their dream prophetically (is that a word?) with one other character. Like, Willow’s was about her and also about Buffy. Gile’s was about him and also about Xander. etc... There was this whole other part where in Tara was a representation of Buffy’s past, present, and future. Then I realized that that is, ya know, insane. I think Restless was Joss’ guess as to where he thought he might go but only few aspects were real plans he had for upcoming season. By the looks of this thread title, I’m probably just repeating what someone has thought of months ago.

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"Over? How can it be over? I just found her!"

[murph the smurf]

After rewatching the "kisses and gay love" scene from 'Normal Again' for the millionth time I started thinking about the use of light with regards to Tara. I'll now attempt to explain...



In Restless when Willow pulls the curtain to look outside, the sunlight shines directly into Tara's face. This has the obvious effect of illuminating her but the overall effect is more interesting. The natural reaction one would expect would be for Tara to blink or at least flinch but she doesn't. In fact the opposite is true, Tara's look is more serene. I had always wondered what the idea was behind this.



The whole thing came back to me during 'Normal Again' because if you watch very closely during the opening scene there is a second where Tara steps into a patch of sunlight and seems even to turn towards the sun.



I've just realised that I totally forgot about OMWF when Tara sings to Willow about being "bathed in light" and we see the sunshine on her face.



Okay, so after all that I pose the question 'Is there any greater significance there?' Is it merely to demonstrate that Willow is the light in Tara's life/guiding light and what have you? Or is it something more?

Willow: Was there a camel?
Tara: There was the front of a camel - a half camel.

[tvmoobunny]

that's an interesting point. sunlight could be a motif, or maybe coincidence (but w/ this show, usually everything is done for a reason and is explained later). truthfully when i watched restless i wasn't looking for anything significant, maybe cuz i was hysterically crying at the end. but that is an interesting point.

"well I never lived the dreams of the prom kings and the drama queens
I'd like to think the best of me
is still hiding up my sleeve"

[PandoraSpocks]

That's exactly what I got from the cheese guy as well Hemiola. I told my friend that and he thought it worked, but that it just happened by chance. Great minds think a like or it's possible were both crazy. I don't know about you, but I could go for a grill cheese, what does that say about me?



Murph the Smurf, I didn't even think about that, now that you say that. I think 'Once More With Feeling' was totally referencing the scene in 'Restless' about living her life in darkness, never the sun in her face (now she's bathed in light)

Edited by: PandoraSpocks at: 4/6/02 12:40:37 pm

[theatremouse]

i actually just wrote a huge paper on michael gershman and the cinematography of buffy, so, though i may be entirely wrong, i'm gonna go and conjecture, that if the "bathed in light" tara not flinching/tara almost absorbing the sunlight, is actually meant to mean something in terms of her maybemagicness/other power having tendency, it's probably coincidental on the part of michael gershman realllly knowing what kind of look joss wants, and thus it's just good cinematography. however i'll admit i could be wrong, and it could be totally intentional. my suggestion however would be to talk to someone who's read scripts, and see if in those scripts the stage directions mention tara turning in to the light at all, etc etc, cuz if it's there in any capacity, twas intentional, if not, it's probly just gershman doing a good job.



meanwhile i'm totally in the camp of folks who think tara's mom is MAJORLY significant, and something with tara's history definitely is gonna be dealved into somewhere in the future. cz it keeps getting brought up in little bits, and vaguely, which to me is a joss sign of things to come. particularly cuz of her spiritness in restless.

That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

[whitenight922]

Another possibility for the bathed in light thing. It could have been a reference to the fact that she's not evil (a demon,) like she thought she was.

[Nic C]

Re. Tara's true name.



I always thought this was a riff on 'the love that dare not speak its name', rather than some indication of Tara having SuperPowers. Tara's matter-of-fact "Oh, you know that" response vs. Will's need to state it (the nature of their love) out loud seems kinda reflective of the way the two of them present their sexuality to the world. Willow, being Willow, spends most of s5 telling everyone she meets that she's gay now. Tara, either because it's not such a new discovery for her or because she's more secure in herself, adopts a quieter approach and lets Will do most of the announcement/talking stuff.



On a similar note, "you know that" could mean that Willow has finally admitted to [i[herself[/i] what her love's name is - she's gay, she loves Tara.



I don't think Tara's hiding anything from the world. I think she has power in and of herself, and not just of the magical kind. And I agree with whoever said that Restless-Tara is more like s6 Tara - more assertive, laid-back, etc. Since the writers plan story arcs some way in advance, this makes perfect sense, too - I've no doubt they knew by 'Restless' where Tara was heading, as a character.



Willow's fear of doing the play may just be a nod back to her s1 stage fright - although even as I type that, I realise it has another significance, as I suspect it's supposed to link into Willow's geek/notgeek issues. She's doing drama, but she's still terrified she'll appear exactly as she did in 'Nightmares'.





Re. Xander. "That's not the way out" is totally haunting, agreed. Poor Xander, his whole dream seems to revolve around how his real family are destructive monsters - and how he has another family (eg. Buffy calling him 'big brother', perhaps), if only he could move out of the basement and thus out of his old life. Plus, yes, he realy really doesn't want to end up like his father - this is exactly the weakness played upon in Hell's Bells, and the reason he still leaves even when he knows the FutureHim wasn't FutureHim. If you see what I mean.





Re. Giles. Giles' dream seems fairly obvious. Parent figure, relied upon too much (the Scoobs sit on his couch waving lighters while he does the exposition song), sees Buffy as his daughter but needs to give her space. That he ignores the upset Olivia - doesn't leave time for his own life?





Buffy's dream I gotta watch again. It's the pivotal one, presumably. The Adam bit (where she asks him his name before he was Adam, and he replies "Not a man among us can remember") always struck me as very sad. It was only time in the whole season I actually gave a toss about Adam, in fact. *g*



And I must read 'Death of a Salesman'. I assume the presence of Riley and Harmony onstage while Buffy does her men rant foreshadows what Riley gets up to in early s5. I wonder if the female characters represent the two halves of Buffy here - the one ranting (Buffy) is how she wants to react, the one sobbing (Harmony) is how she really feels. Does Buffy blame herself for what her various boyfriends do to her? (of course, Harmony goes through a breakup in s5 too).



Must stop. Sorry for long post.





Nic

[Under Her Spell]

Interesting post, Nic C. I see the 'true name' reference to be mostly about Tara's imagined demon half - the 'you know that' a reference to the fact that Willow would love her even if she was half-demon. As for 'gay now!' - I think you're right in that it's Willow feeling the need to assert her sexuality. But I think she's doing this mostly to remind Anya and others of it (and, symbolically, the fans) than herself.



Willow's dream is mostly a prediction of S6, of the way that her fear of her geekish roots will lead her to try and escape from them through magic. I think the way that Willow is expected to know her lines and understand everything is symbolic of the way she becomes uncomfortable with her leadership role in S6. The same thing's in Xander's dream - everyone around him is clued up but he's still unsure of himself, and literally can't understand their language. That seems to me to be about his feeling of uselessness in S5.



All Things Philosophical on BtVS is a great site for this kind of discussion - the messageboard is primitive, but good (and currently non-working ). I post as Slain, there (I'm not so much the man with no name, as the man with about 50 of them ).

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"Sometimes, the fans are going "no, no, no!" and we know we are heading somewhere they will like."

- Marti Noxon



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