Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family

[drlloyd11]

posted 11-08-2000 03:50 EST (US)
Wow..
Even if a I am a bit of a partisan, tonights ep was a great one. It worked on all the traditional buffy Levels.
1)Peronal-Tara's struggle to not define her self as evil, but to make her own way in life.
2)Metaphor- The Witchcraft=Feminism metaphor is complete
3)Scoobies as Familyuff said. In college and after, you did get a chance to make your own family.
4)Drmatic- They kept us guessing to the end
5)Romantic- Not just the snuggles at the beginning, but the last sequence, the last frame, not since the last season of the Buffy firsdt season Ep Angel have we seen such a dramatic display of Love as magic itself.
6)Spike -OK, I'm just throwing this in.
Best ep of the Season.
Most romantic Ep since S2 Buffy
When!
And I remained spoiler free!!! I only read thw last line of Xita post, with her praising Joss, to know how to brace myself..
dr lloyd

[Spring]

posted 11-08-2000 08:42 EST (US)
Thank you everyone for rationalizing some of the major plotholes as in:
What happened to Mumsie McLay?
How could someone as connected to magic like Tara not know that she wasn't a demon? Couldn't she do a demon location spell type thingy on herself?
How could Tara NOT know that casting a blinding spell on the Slayer in a town like Sunnydale would be a bad idea like homicide is a bad idea...

There were LOL parts for me like when Tara's father comes in all blustery and says:
Demon. The women in our family have demon in them. [cue music, cue crying, raise all eyebrows, someone drop something, please!]

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Now I'm going to do an interesting comparison of the W/T and W/O relationships. Those W/O fans on this board - a forewarning that this is about how much better W/T are than W/O so go away if this makes you upset.

The really, really great thing about this episode was Willow's unwavering support and love for her girlfriend, even when she could have easily ditched her. I think what Joss was trying to say about Love (the big 'L' kind, not the little 'l' kind) is that love has to be unconditional, and Willow loves Tara very, very, very, very unconditionally. It's interesting because all along Tara has been the model girlfriend - she's supportive of Willow, shares her interests, would obviously sacrifice herself at the drop of a hat - a great girlfriend, and easy to like. But Tara goes and does a couple of bad, no good things in this ep:
1)When Tara introduces her family to the Scoobies at the Magic Box, she only introduces Giles, and you can see Willow looking kind of hurt but fighting it off bravely.
2)The scene when Willow wants Tara to come hang out with the Scoobies and Tara says 'It's not always about your friends' - yowch! And Willow's hurt face - that was tough scene, because it's true, it's not always about Willow's freakin' friends ya know? Tara's got needs! The chick has her own f*****g problems. But then poor Willow's face, how she was really trying to fight off her hurt and pretty much brushing off the hurt again- but this time she's having a little more difficulty hiding it. Let me just say Willow hurt face is an exceptionally difficult thing. When she cries, you cry.
3) Of course the climactic ending, with Willow hurt face and the 'I trusted you more than anyone in my life. Was all that just a lie?' Anyone hear echoes of W/O in here? Like, I dunno- Willow finding her boyfriend with another gal? Betrayal is a huge issue for Willow and her ready defense of Tara immediately after finding out that she's been lied to (Ok, I'm visualizing Willow hurt face again), wow, Willow LOVES Tara. In that big heart in the sky, unconditional way - that no matter what Tara's done or what Tara is, Willow loves her without reservation. This kind of unconditionality was not what W/O had, because eventhough Oz ostensibly did not intend to sleep with Veruca, Willow was still pretty pissed. Here Tara does something similar in the betrayal of trust arena, yet Willow is able to fight it off. It shows off Willow's new maturity and her unconditional love for Tara.
This was great! For a long time it could be assumed that one of the great things about Tara was that she was just this big slobbery puppy full of unconditional love / hero worship for Willow. It's easy to be in a relationship with someone who worships you. But what about the bad times? When you're a big heaving glob of goo, all snotty and hiccup-y from crying so much, but your partner looks at you as if you're the most beautiful person on earth - well that's when you know. That's the sign of a lasting relationship, that's the sign of a real partnership....sigh. BWWAAAAAH!

....and was I the only one who got a rise out of Willow raising her voice? [To Tara's father: I KNOW THAT!] I REALLY WANNA ep where Willow knocks some folks about while defending Tara. Or Tara raises her voice and knocks some folks about.

[This message has been edited by Spring (edited 11-08-2000).]

[cparga]

posted 11-08-2000 09:30 EST (US)
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

That was just the most beautiful most wonderful episode to ever grace the television airwaves. Ever!! How I so love Joss for creating and developing and nurturing the goodness that is Willow and Tara. He is a beautiful wonderful person, and Amber and Aly are also beautiful wonderful people for doing such a beautiful wonderful job portraying their characters and their emotions in such a perfect way. It's just beautiful. And wonderful!!

And now I'll move past the gushing for a few actual plot related comments about the ep (sorry for the enthusiasm, I was completely unspoiled and am just blown away by everything that was shown.....so much more than I ever really hoped for....it's all a wee bit overwhelming, in a really good way....)

1. The Tara's Mom question -- Am I the only one thinking that Tara's mom possibly died when she was 20 (maybe even from something magic related, like a spell gone awry), and so her family created a story about how she turned "demony" to keep Tara away from the evil influences of magic (especially if Tara had shown a natural affinity for magic at an early age...) It just doesn't make any sense to me for Tara to have grown up knowing her mother and still believing her mother was demon, when that was clearly the case. I guess a mental institution of some kind also is a possiblity, that her family could have commited her mother (although they seem more like the locking up in the attic types...) and she died in there, once again not allowing Tara much contact with her. As for her grandmother, perhaps that was part of the legend her family made up. Maybe the Doll's Eye crystal was really her mothers, I mean, she didn't seem all that sure where it came from. Her family could have made up a magical grandmother to reinforce in Tara the evilness of magic and make Tara so afraid she would be dependent on them to help her.

2. Concerning the Spike/Harmony sex scene. My first reaction was like "Good grief, that can show THAT but they can't even show Willow & Tara KISSING!! That's RIDICULOUS!!!!" But I think that was the reaction Joss was going for. It seems a very intentional comparison....not only to illustrate the hypocisy of the network and its censorship, but ALSO to show how superior romance and sweetness can be to graphic sex. And I agree. I'll take floating dancing any day over the kind of stuff they've shown with Spike/Harm and even Buffy/Riley.

3. I too love how the whole gang rallied around Tara, espeically since they were explaining how they didn't know her so well in the first part of the episode (I really loved that scene between Buffy and Xander...and hasn't Xander gotten all studly lately....very nice!! Much better than last season...) I think they would have been justified in feeling much more betrayed by her, and being much more angry. At first I wondered if it was a little "too" easy, if they came around a little too quickly, but I think her family being there for them to see for themselves what she had to deal with really helped. If they had not been there and were not being so stupid, they may not have been so sympathetic to Tara. But I also think part of the reason they rallied so hard was for Willow. I think at the end they finally really saw how much Tara means to Willow, how much Tara loves Willow, and we all know how much they love Willow, so I think part of what they did was out of the love they have for Willow, making what's important to her important to them.

4. The Dance. There aren't enough words to descirbe how beautiful that scene was. The acting, the writing, all superb. Amber and Aly's best acting moment together as a couple. One of the most romantic moments on the show, ever. I'm soooooo glad Joss seems to love W/T as much as we do. He seems really proud (and protective) of this relationship. Yay for Joss!!! I was nervous when the ep began, being upspoiled, I thought things could go very badly, but he didn't make us suffer TOO much (although at the halfway point of the show I was pretty antsy) and has once again beautifully demostrated his commitment to this relationship.

Whew. I think that's it for now. I shall be basking in a happy post-Family glow all day. Oh, but I can't leave without the obligatory AMBER IS A HOTTIE!!!

There, I feel better.

Cylinda

[xita]

posted 11-08-2000 10:18 EST (US)
Ok, some more thoughts. I really loved the way the scooby gang stood up for Tara. I also loved the Buffy/Tara interaction (such as it were). I think it's the first time characters have actually talked to her. Buffy in just looking at her, I mean she's the central character, this is a good thing. Anya and Tara could be good friends, I like that idea. The last scene, we see Tara hanging out with different people without Willow, I am just so excited. Then at the end of the silent montage, Buffy looks over her family (notice no Riley) and I feel like she's the mother hen! That's reflected in the fact that she's the first one to stand up for Tara. I am loving this new Buffy. Instead of the selfish, self serving Buffy, we get the protective caretaker. I am for it.

Willow/Tara. There has been a lot more going on than we have been led to believe. Somebody expressed on chat last night how weird it was that Buffy knew Mr. Maclay's name. I thought, just because we didn't know it, doesn't mean Willow didn't. In fact, it would be really weird if she didn't. She knew her age, she knew she was turning 20. We didn't, for all we knew, she was eternal. So, I think the biggest thing Tara kept from Willow was her family. I don't find that unusual as many people refuse to talk about their family.
Last note, there was so much here to love. I'll mention a small thing. I loved the way Willow thought it was Tara at the magic shop when she heard the monster's noise outside. Sweet.

[Spring]

posted 11-08-2000 10:29 EST (US)
When Buffy and Xander had that extended conversation about Tara - I was so happy steam was coming out of my ears. But I don't know about that new improved non-selfish Buffy. When she made that remark about a nice sweater she saw at Bloomingdale's but wanted it for herself, I was like - yeah, what else is new Buff? Or when she said all the present buying thoughts was making her head hurt- as if not thinking about herself for once was stretching her poor brain all out of shape.
One day we might even get Buffy and Tara talking to each other!

As a side note, it's really funny how the commercials made a funny scene look completely evil and shocking. When Tara makes that stupid joke, everyone is taken aback by its lameness, while the commercial makes it look as if Tara has just done something horrifically evil.

[LordBowler]

posted 11-08-2000 10:38 EST (US)
O.K. I read the spoilers, viewed the quick videos and read the closed captioning, but I was still completely blown away by this episode.

A few random thoughts/questions.

Has Miss Kitty been recast? It seems like there's a lot more white on her than last season. Do markings on cats change as they get older?

Don't you wish that when they first met Tara's Father, Tara had introduced Willow as her girlfriend? I'm sure it would have been a funny heart attack. (Well I would have enjoyed it anyway.)

Speaking of Tara's dad didn't that prominent brow make him look vaguely cro-magnon? I guess Tara takes after her mother. And hopefully her real father will turn out to be the mailman.

And speaking of Tara's mother, like everyone, else I can't help noticing there are alot of unanswer questions about her. Is she alive? Dead? Shacked up in Battle Creek, Michigan with her own gay lover? Inquiring mind want to know.

I really like how we are finally getting to see more of how Tara relates to the other Scoobies. Hopefully now we'll get to see more of her with the rest of the gang sans Willow.

Hey WB. I've set you a dollar in the mail. Go buy yourself a clue. No one is going to get anymore in a twist about Willow and Tara if you let them kiss, so let them.

Don't you think its about time for Willow and Tara to move in together? Maybe they can get Buffy's old room after all who doesn't love bawdy french farce?

[Hugin]

posted 11-08-2000 11:03 EST (US)
I'm actually really glad that the ep didn't really deal with Tara's family's reaction to Willow as her girlfriend. I mean, we still get the wicca/magic as homosexuality thing, but I'm glad that the focus was on the pre-existing bad relationship Tara had with her family, rather than a current freakout over Willow.

In my mind, it turns any possible message from "Tara's family disapproves of W/T, so they're bad." to "Tara's family wants to control Tara and all the other women in the family forever, and not let Tara live the life she wants to live."

I think the latter take gets the point across in a more subtle way.

(Though I was quite happy with the look Willow gave the father towards the end when he tried to interrupt Willow asking Tara what she wanted to do. That man was dead on the floor if looks could kill. I would really not ever want to try to hurt Tara in Willow's presence at this point. Nope. Oh, and how cute could it have been if Willow could have kissed Tara's little hurtey nose to make it better? Yes, this ep has reduced me to utter sappiness)

And yes, who's left to be bothered by a kiss at this point?

I don't do sigs really. But the "All I know is she likes Willow...and she already has one of those." from Xander was priceless. I'd have that as a sig. If I did sigs. 'cos it was cute. I'll stop now.

-len

"All I know is she likes Willow...and she already has one of those." -Xander, Family
(oh, just this once)

[Jon@han]

posted 11-08-2000 11:32 EST (US)

Well, well, well.

We finally learn Tara's secret, and it ain't so bad. I, for one, am pleased, and I'll tell you why.[1]

Some back story: Remember when Riley was first introduced as a commando type? I was ecstatic. Riley and the Initiative represented something good. They were just ordinary people (commando's yes; but just people) fighting demons and monters. It was a stark contrast to the scoobies, where Xander is constantly getting his nose tweaked about his normal-ness (ie, no superpowers).
I felt betrayed by the Intiative storyline, because they made Riley a superguy. He lost something there, and he hasn't recovered it by losing those powers. I still don't forgive TPTB for once again making "normal" people unable to do good. [2]

Back to Tara, though. We always knew Tara was special, and not just because she had excellent taste in women. Theories flew fast and furious about her; about her background, about her motivations, about her very nature.

And what, ultimately, is Tara? She is a girl. She's got a messed up home life, she's got self-esteem issues, and her sense of humor- well, let's not go there. I'm glad Tara isn't a demon, or a goddess, or a manifestation of the slayer spirit to guide Buffy, or an agent of good sent to guard Dawn, or Willow, or anything like that. She's just some girl who got swept up in something.

I can't help but feel that what was lost with Riley, was regained with Tara.[3] There was every opportunity to make her something more than human, and TPTB didn't. She is a witch, yes; but not a super-powered one.

And what's her motivation? She likes doing spells with Willow. No evil, no mission, just human love.

I like that.

--
Rev.Jon@han

[1] yeah, it'd be a cold day in heck when I don't.
[2] Xander tries, he really does. But time and time again, we have seen him knocked aout because of his inability to play with the big boys. This may just be an element of his character, (re "Restless"), but he is still the only non-powered scoobie or evil-fighter.
[3] Milton reference!

[Spring]

posted 11-08-2000 11:48 EST (US)
They are so mad for each other - Willow has become completely blind to the fact that Tara's jokes aren't exactly stellar. They've reached the Honey-you-look-SOO-sexy-in-those-plaid-pants-and-polka-dot-shirt stage.

[TyRex316]

posted 11-08-2000 11:49 EST (US)
I wasn't sure if I should weigh in on this ep. Nothing i can say can match the eloquence of anything all of you have posted so far. But...I'll give it a shot. First this is one of the sweetest, most romantic Buffy eps ever,period. That first scene that focused on the domesticity of their relationship foreshadowed the overall maturity Willow displayed throughout the entire ep. Tara spent the better part of the ep reacting out of fear, fear of family, fear of losing Willow, and fear of not really knowing her true self. This ep not only showed a part of who Tara is but also who Willow has become. Willow not making a deal of Tara not introducing her properly to her family, recognizing that what Tara really needed was space to deal and didn't overreact to Tara's crankiness, and at the magic shop, not allowing the situation to degenerate and not allowing Tara to just walk away from her. And that smile of utter pride as her friends stepped up to the plate for Tara. And I will never forget Amber's display of awe and joy as each of the scoobies but especially Buffy did that. And that final scene with the lines that could have been marriage vows in a real sense and the dance. What does the future hold for Tara in Joss' universe? i do think there's plenty something left there to explore about Tara's mother.

[wolliw]

posted 11-08-2000 11:57 EST (US)
An intense and beautiful episode; I'm glad I was completely unspoiled!

Filled with such complexities of love ... Obviously, a lot shown between W and T ... But also, the care that people extend to those loved by those they love; as cparga (and maybe others!) has already pointed out, part of the gang's willingness to protect Tara stems from the fierce protectiveness they have for Willow. We also saw the touching care that Buffy now shows to one she loves (Dawn) but knows isn't technically her "real" family, as well as a clear contrast between Buffy's "real" dad and her continuing profound rel'ship with Giles.

Anyway, back to Tara, I found it really touching that in the same episode where Xander and Buffy admit that they don't really *know* Tara (also a great scene – funny as well as poignant), and just after they are victims of a spell she cast, they nevertheless come to her defence when she needs them most. The incipient friendship they offer to Tara is one where you're allowed to make mistakes, even life-threatening ones! (After all, Willow's been responsible for some hairy situations with spells going awry too, as she herself acknowledges.) So after so little interaction shown between T and the non-W Scoobies, those various scenes of T's b'day where she's hanging out with them at various time was completely heartwarming; those times, after all, are the glue of deep and abiding friendships.

On top of all this, we got so many memorable scenes where the love between T and W was achingly evident. Given the reported brouhaha over the short hug in that episode a couple of weeks ago, I was completely unprepared for the bed-snuggling scene and, of course, the final dance scene. But there were other wonderful scenes as well, like, as already mentioned, W thinking it ws T knocking on the door when the demons came, and calling her name with anticipation; the hurt that W tried to hide when T declined to go with her, the scene between W and T after Spike hits T ....

So much in one episode ... wow.

[xita]

posted 11-08-2000 12:02 EST (US)
I knew everything, hell i'd even half seen it, yet it was soo moving. I am still reacting to the sheer beauty of it. No the floating wasn't cheesy. The song is great, I already have the mp3. And the acting, Amber was fantastic today, of course Aly always is. We have lived off crumbs my friends. Tonight there was so much, I don't even know how many times I will have to watch it to get it all. Wow. The best part, well aside from the dance, was the scoobies standing up for Tara. I was just ready to break down. I have to wait for angel to be over to watch it again.

[Thassa]

posted 11-08-2000 12:06 EST (US)
Awwwwww. ARRRGHHH! YAY! Awwwwww.

I loved the ep, but my mother dropped by 15 minutes into it causing me to miss 15 min. This means I have to watch it again on Saturday (forgot to record it). Anyway, I LOVED the first and last scenes, they made it so romantic . Joss is a mushball, but he's our mushball. Also, Spike shows once again he's the master of the backhanded compliment. And MKF's back! Gotta go, it's hard to reach the keyboard when your floating on the ceiling.

Favourite line was Giles telling Xander and Buffy, they were stupid because they couldn't figure out what Tara might like for a present when they were sitting in a magic shop. (can't remember exactly how it went)

[This message has been edited by Thassa (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Thassa]

posted 11-08-2000 12:14 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by mucifer:

did ya notice riley wasnt in the family scene? was that on purpose?

---

Didn't notice.. but, I hope so. Riley seems just a little more out of place each ep. The detour to the bar seemed almost like a scene out of some other show.

[ghaliya]

posted 11-08-2000 12:19 EST (US)
i was so spoiled for this episode, but i still got teary at the end. omg it was amazing! i loved the ending, they showed such tenderness and love for each other. Im having a hard time breathing!

You are right Xita, this was a long time coming - and what a wonderful way for it to come to us!

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 11-08-2000 12:43 EST (US)
Okay, my turn to talk about the episode. Many more happy thoughts than there are about the election.

While I thought the episode was fantastic, it didn't give me the same emotional punch that New Moon Rising did. I'll admit it - this episode deserved to be watched unspoiled (although if I had watched it unspoiled I might have broken my TV by throwing things at it before it was revealed that Tara's not a demon). I can watch NMR over and over again, and still get the same emotional kapowee at seeing Willow come out to Buffy or Willow and Oz in the van or Willow bringing the extra-flamey candle to Tara's room. None of the scenes in Family had that same amount of impact.

I realize this is like saying, "Gee, other symphonies just don't compare to Beethoven's Ninth," but there you are. And the scenes in Family may grow on me with repeated viewing - I'm certainly willing to test that theory out.

Having said all that, I will now proceed to rave and glow over the many really good things in Family. Such as:

-- The return of MKF! (And I suspect there are actually several Miss Kitties Fantastico available for a shoot, which is why her markings appear to shift around.)

-- Tara's bedtime story!

-- Tara's look of sheer bliss when she climbs into bed with Willow.

-- Joss making a point of having both B/R and X/A kiss in a drawn-out over-the-top fashion. Oh no, he doesn't have a problem with the WB's rules, no sirree...

-- Amber Benson's performance. She showed more Tara-layers in one night than she got to show all last season, and she was brilliant at it. I loved the way Tara went straight back into her old stuttering-mode the second her family showed up. I can relate.

-- The one good thing about being spoiled for this episode is that I could pay attention to the way Joss was manipulating the audience without being taken in by his manipulations. He made a very convincing case for Tara being a demon right up to the moment Spike hit her. I'm sure it had a lot of people suckered.

-- Joss's return to his theme that real-life terrors are worse than anything monsters can throw at you.

-- The party montage. It was fun to see both Willow and Tara having fun as part of the gang as a whole, and not just by themselves.

-- The fact that Willow took Tara onto the dance floor as if it was the most natural thing in the world for her to do, and nobody did anything to make them feel otherwise.

-- The conversation on the dance floor. That's the one that has the best chance of growing on me with time.

Uhhh... I seem to be going on a bit longer than I expected... I'll leave off here for now.

[ghaliya]

posted 11-08-2000 12:44 EST (US)
and one more thought from such a beautiful episode...

the look willow gives tara when she comes to get her for the dance? i melted. sigh....

[LadyJ]

posted 11-08-2000 12:48 EST (US)
Um first off I agree with you all great ep, I jumped up and down when we found out that Tara wasn't a demon. But I have a question. IN the norm homosexuals are betrayed as male and female still. You know like with guys some guy is all feminine and one is all male-ey. However with girls its always been one is butch bla bla bla, well now a days both partners are the same or just themselves not trying to assume a male or a female role. But my question based on what we saw would you say that Will is the guy, cause
A: In the bed Tara layed in Will
B: The dance Tara had her arms around Will and Will on Tara's hips.
Don't mean to offend but just wondering if this stereotype exists in the W/T relationship.

[Seaweed]

posted 11-08-2000 12:59 EST (US)
I think these are outdated stereotypes. Does Buffy throwing down Riley and climbing on top of him and beating him up (in the sense that she is more powerful than him)make him the "female" of their relationship. People change roles all the time. Spice of life...not a box to be trapped in.

JMHO.
Seaweed

[This message has been edited by Seaweed (edited 11-08-2000).]

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 11-08-2000 13:08 EST (US)
Seaweed, is that a trick question about Buffy and Riley???

I thought of a couple more great things about Family that I left off my earlier list.

-- Anya being tickled by the fact that she's "a useful member of society" and raising her hand like that to ask Mr. Maclay what kind of demon Tara was. Did you notice, though, that in a sense Anya still thinks of herself as a demon? I wonder if that's going to come back...

-- Willow telling Tara that she's never trusted anyone more than she trusts her. That was wonderful. (Take that, W/O 'shippers! ) And true, too... Willow has had that kind of deep trust for Tara ever since Who Are You.

I'm sure there are more, but I'll leave off again here..

[Little Willow]

posted 11-08-2000 13:35 EST (US)
Beyond the Pain ++
Some folks from willtara emailed me offlist about this and/or asked me to post it here, so...here we go...

I was thoroughly pleased with "Family," and, as always, proud of and
impressed by Amber, Alyson and Joss.

Making Tara human was a risky move because nowadays, viewers are so ready to
pronounce any new character as evil, demonic, ready to slip up or ready to
turn evil.

In the same vein, many people are suddenly used to the dynamic forces of the
Slayerettes: Buffy with her Slayer strength, Willow being a witch, Giles
being a magic user in the past, Anya being an ex-demon, Riley being
Inititative power boy in the past, Spike being a vampire: with Xander being
the only one who is just simply (and wonderfully) Xander. It's funny to see
such reactions because initially, in Season 3 (which included Oz being a
werewolf and Angel being a vampire) people were concerned that the group was
TOO supernatural. Think of what Cordelia confronted Xander with in "The
Zeppo" about that.

"Family" was amazing. There is no doubt about it.

For those naysayers who think it was "lame" or "stupid" that the
demon-legend that they were passing down in the Maclay Family turned out to
be a hoax and was all a big tease, I say this:

What we got from this was another reason to admire Tara. She was in a
mentally abusive environment growing up, frightened of what she was to
become and apparently loving and following her father out of fear and
command. Somehow, she found the strength to escape the abuse and run, run
like she'd never run before. Run to college where she could be educated, to
a group where she could be accepted, to a place where she could study her
hobbies and live her life as she wished. She found herself and was free
from the pain and torment that she must have experienced on a daily basis
back home.

We should all be so lucky. So fortunate. So strong.

If you are still hung up on the demon-legend of the Maclays, think of it
this way: Picture a young girl (or boy for that matter) being told each and
every day that she (or he) is stupid. Worthless. Evil. Will be evil someday.
Good for nothing. Anything along these lines. Then picture that person able
to GET OUT OF THERE. For those viewers who were abused, mentally or
physically, or know someone who was, they know this takes guts. It's a very
scary position to be in. Not everyone is able to escape...

Have I changed your mind now? Do you see what I see in Tara? Now, how can
you not admire her for her strength, her wisdom, her choices? This is yet
another way that perhaps Joss and Co will reach some fans out there and help
them overcome issues that are happening now, or to make peace with something
that happened in their past.

I applaud Tara for her strength, her wisdom, her choices.

I applaud Willow for letting Tara make her choice and helping her raise her
voice.

I applaud Buffy and the others who stood up for Tara. I am very pleased they
have all made this step towards embracing her into the Scooby Gang.

Now Tara fits into the group moreso than ever. A human, innocent, helping
fight the forces of darkness out of the goodness of her own heart. A
character with knowledge, with specialities, with a past, a present and a
future.

Deny her no longer.

When Tara first appeared, we were reminded of first season Willow. Tara has
been able to be a positive force and guide for Willow.

Now when you look at Tara, I hope you are reminded a little of yourself. You
must love yourself before anyone else can love you back. Don't be afraid of
what you are. Be proud of it.

Little Willow

------------------
:: she's essential
www.AmberBenson.net
:: get willow power
www.members.tripod.com/little__willow/wpwp.html

----------------------------------
http://little__willow.tripod.com
http://www.gist.com/tvclubs/fanclub.jsp?fanclub=buffy
http://www.envy.nu/yourgirl

[Roxton]

posted 11-08-2000 13:36 EST (US)
What an emotional rollercoaster ride. I would have to rank "Family" right up there with "Hush" as possibly the best episode ever.

Amber gave us a brilliant performance last night. The range of emotions she went through in this episode is truly a testament to her acting abilities. Alyson turned in a strong performance as well, but what was amazing was the chemistry between these two actresses. The emotional connection was so intense. You couldn't help but be caught up in it.

It was interesting to finally get some insight into Tara's background. Given what we learned it is easy to see why Tara was so shy and insecure. Now that Willow knows about her background and Tara fears about being a demon have been resolved, I think that we will see Tara start to explore the full potential of her powers.

The bedroom scene was beautifully done. Joss showed us the simple joy of two people in love. If there was ever any doubt as to the depth of Willow's and Tara's love or the strength of their commitment all one had to do was look at the final scene. It was so evident during their dance. It was a magic moment.

Given everything that happened last night I would say that the odds of Tara becoming a regular before the end of this season and being around for the duration just went up significantly.

[Spring]

posted 11-08-2000 13:50 EST (US)
Can someone tell me what Tara's bedtime story was all about?

I got the dolphin reference, but I didn't understand the 'half a camel' thing. The only symbolism I know about camels is dirty and rude, so I shall not repeat it here. Anyone else have a clue?

[Rane]

posted 11-08-2000 14:06 EST (US)
i second everything everyone's posted. this is certainly one of the best Buffy ep's ever. it had every single element necessary for a great show. it was like an amazing amberdelic mini movie. =)

to answer some questions:
- what her father said about supporting her for 18 years only meant that she went away to college at 18 and ever since then they lost (touch) control of her. she's 20 now and i always thought she was older than them. (go me)
- not everyone needs to move out of dorms in the summer. at least i didn't. and since it's so tara's room i'm sure she wouldn't move out of there. would you want to re-decorate another room? (april, the x-mas lights this time were held up a little different though. =) inside joke)

to contribute to the thread:
- i found it hilarious when the father was in her room and he was holding up a phallic-y looking quartz as he spoke about magic and toys. did anyone else noticed that?
- buffy calling dawn a hair puller was sooo subliminal! i think i got it but everyone else was like *huh* and i had to explain what hair puller meant in NYC anyway.
- vixen, *sigh* all i have to say about that.
- rallying around tara after she cast the spell, it was joss' brilliant way of letting all the buggers out there know that they are all behind the tara arc and that she is part of the scoobies. *essential* much more so than anya anyway. she can do majick!
- when spike punched her i cracked up. i couldn't help but think about all the phobes out there that would have wanted to do the same thing to her. will should have definitely kissed her nose but it was the most touching scene for me of the whole ep. *i'm not a demon* *you're not a demon* that is what the whole arc is about. *he hurt my nose.* I wish willow or tara had punched him back. being a child of what appeared to be physical abuse as well i'm sure tara can pack a punch. and willow should have held her after she said *no* that it wasn't a lie.
- i'm so exited to see Sandy! i wonder who sired her because vamp will killed her. she didn't give her her blood, right?
- i too have so many more questions about tara's family. joss is incredible and i cant wait for what's to come.

ok, enough ramblin.

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*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil' nothing*, Rasputina

[Nouvelle]

posted 11-08-2000 14:08 EST (US)
I can't possibly say anything that has'nt already been said. But I'll try anyway.

On Miss Kitty-I also thought that was a stand-in for our beloved "real" Miss Kitty. The fact is cats grow really fast and when you consider we had the entire summer for our kitty to grow up, the "real" Miss Kitty is probably full grown by now.

I also loved the interaction between Tara and Anya. Anya is so blunt and Tara is slightly out of it. There is definant comedic possibilities in their relationship.

Did anyone else notice Taras' reaction when Giles gave her the crystal ball as a gift? Funny. And puzzled.

It seems growing up surrounded by sexiest men has had one positive effect. Tara could be a pool shark.

For just a moment forget that we saw W/T hit the sheets together. Just for a moment now. I loved the bedtime story Tara was telling. A lonely kitty, ferrets, dolphins, camels, half camels and a happy home. For some reason I love that dialoge.

A great and (I'll say it) a very sweet show.

[Rane]

posted 11-08-2000 14:15 EST (US)
spring:

how's your karma this week? remember that your insect reflection... blah blah blah... that one i didn't get but it's so funny to see tara and anya talking about stuff. i hope anya doesn't use tara to get her powers back.

the story was about tara being lost and adopted by the scoobs. that's why i got out of it. the camel thing is probably a cheese man reference, or not. so i should just say *i don't know about the half camel part* maybe half of her is still missing since we dont really know everything about her yet?

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*a few thoughts on the subject by a lil' nothing*, Rasputina

[spuckie]

posted 11-08-2000 14:27 EST (US)
ok. i confess. i didn't get the ferret, dolphin, camel, OR 1/2 camel reference. Anybody wanna toss clues to the clueless?

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 11-08-2000 14:29 EST (US)
I thought the half-camel was just Willow and Tara being silly. The entire bedtime story thing was them being silly, so they carried it to a logical silly-extreme.

As for Miss Kitty, I remember that on Star Trek: TNG, Mr. Data's cat Spot went through many transformations - sometimes in the same episode and once it even changed gender! So all in all, the differences between the various Miss Kitties are small by comparison.

The more I talk about this episode, the more it grows on me. Maybe it was the election-tension last night that made me a bit off about it at first.

[Little Willow]

posted 11-08-2000 14:42 EST (US)
I was in no way let down by the ep and I'd sad to see some people were... Again I can see the points of some people, but refer to my earlier post about the main players needing normalcy in the paranormal-cy that surrounds them -- everyone meaning something -- and realistic in the face of a supernatural/scifi/fantasy show plot.

If Tara had been named half demon, people would have had Doyle issues.
If she had been called a neutral demon, people would have had Whistler issues.
If she was deemed a faery or some mythological creature, people would have had issues.
No matter what it was or it is, people are going to have strong reactions. Some group or some theory is going to be 'disappointed' to some length. So I realize that and I can see where different beliefs or different people are coming from.

Personally, I was not letdown.
I was proud of the character.
Don't want to repeat myself, so I'll just say in summary that though perhaps the family background wasn't as detailed yet, more is bound to come AND if Xander can be human functioning member of the group, if others can be human etc, why can't Tara? And who said that indefinitely she is or will be? Look at Oz... he was a normal teenager and he got bitten MANY episodes after we first met and adored him. Did we turn on him? No.

This show has constantly defined DEMON in ways very few other shows have. It's not black and white. Evil isn't evil, Mister Maclay. We've seen Angel, vampire with a soul. Oz, boy turned werewolf. Whistler, neutral. Doyle, half demon. We've seen good demons, neutral demons, evil demons. As Anya pointed out last night, there are various types. JUST LIKE PEOPLE. Each demon or villain or vamp they present us with is individual, just like a person. Each demon represents our REAL inner demons. That's the point of the entire show.

About the various animals: They were just being silly. One assumes a little that the dolphins were thrown in because Alyson herself loves dolphins (hence the tribal dolphin tattoo!).

As per Tara's age: If she left before her 19th birthday a year ago, that would meant the 18 years with her family. See?

And also: I think the episode will grow more on people as they rewatch. It's such a great ensemble piece as well. We see villain plots continuing, little recurrances popping up, meshing Glory, Harmony, Ben into the hour, a sideplot with sea1/sea2 type baddies that again, like s1/s2 melded nicely into the main plot, story arcs arc-ing with Riley/Buffy, Dawn/Buffy, Dawn herself, Buffy/Giles, Dawn/Giles, Anya/Xander, Anya herself, and again MORE DREAMS TOLD! with Restless "what you are" for Tara and TYG Faith/Buffy sheets to Dawn/Buffy.

Little Willow

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[LordBowler]

posted 11-08-2000 14:47 EST (US)
Well ferrets are pets in many areas so finding some at the pound wouldn't be so out there.

In general when Willow was asking about dolphins and camels, she was just being silly playing the role of a child asking odd question while being told a story. But the dolphins reference may have been a suble in joke - Aly has a dolphin tatoo. As for the half camel, isn't a half camel a move in gymnastic or figure skating?