quote:

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Originally posted by Ed The Spoiler:
Just thought I'd point out that I did post quite a long while ago that episodes 21 & 22 would air together. The episodes were written in order to air this way...

I think that makes 2 things that I've said that have been confirmed... More to come!

Ed

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You sure did Ed and may I say, I sure am hoping the rest comes true as well.

By the way, what was the first thing that came true? I must have missed it.

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Originally posted by Scout:
Remember this post from a few weeks back:

My best friend, who lives in LA has a husband who does "out of house" computer special effects for various studios. I talked to him today and said he was talking to a colleague of his who said there is an F/X for a scene in BTVS, in which the character Anya does some sort of magic (major F/X scene) that reverses some bad events leading up to this scene. He said it seems to be the character who performs the magic that dies in the end. He obviously did not know much of the details since he and his colleague mostly talked about the technical aspect of this and not the story plot. Believe or not...

The Tara character dies, but is brought back. The Anya character is the one who dies in the end. Wait and see!!!

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Wow. I don't remember that post. I must have completely missed it, because I would remember something like that.

I'm feeling more hopeful now than at any time in the last three weeks since this mess started. Why? Because this post has the "feel" of something legit. It's vague in all the right ways and specific in all the right ways. Plus it makes sense that a complicated FX shot would be in the works well before the rest of the episode.

Of course, we don't know the credibility of the person who posted it, and we don't have any proof to back it up... but at least now we have something to look for - evidence of whether or not this is true.

And yes yes, I know Ed the Spoiler has been saying the same thing as well, but Ed is by his own admission fuzzy on the details of the story. This gives us something a little more substantial to investigate.

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Originally posted by Willow-n-Tara_1:
Once the ball starts rolling I don’t want it to stop till we know Tara is safe in Willows arms.

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YES.

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Wow. I don't remember that post. I must have completely missed it, because I would remember something like that.

I'm feeling more hopeful now than at any time in the last three weeks since this mess started. Why? Because this post has the "feel" of something legit. It's vague in all the right ways and specific in all the right ways. Plus it makes sense that a complicated FX shot would be in the works well before the rest of the episode.

Of course, we don't know the credibility of the person who posted it, and we don't have any proof to back it up... but at least now we have something to look for - evidence of whether or not this is true.

And yes yes, I know Ed the Spoiler has been saying the same thing as well, but Ed is by his own admission fuzzy on the details of the story. This gives us something a little more substantial to investigate.

Keep digging, folks!

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Originally posted by drlloyd11:
Does this make sense since the episode is only now being filmed? It could still be possible if its a new effect..

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If they had a general idea of what the effect was, they could get the SFX guys working on it well in advance, even before the script was written.

Suppose, just as an example, they wanted to have a scene where Tara magically caused a giant pineapple to materialize over Sunnydale, and then it glowed bright orange and magically sliced itself, showering the town with pineapple juice. If they knew well in advance that this scene would be coming, they could describe it to the SFX guys so that prep work could get started - figuring out how to do a realistic digital rendering of a pineapple, how to make it glow, how to make it look like it's slicing itself, etc. By the time the script was written and the film was being shot, the groundwork would have been laid so that the effect could be inserted with minimal fuss.

That's how I'd do it, anyway.

I noticed this hadn't been posted here yet, but if you're like me and read several spoiler boards you may have heard that there is a new Buffy promo out there on the net. I don't know whether it's kosher to post links here or not, so I won't.

Most of the promo contains old footage, and it seems targeted to draw in people who don't watch the show, introducing each character (except, sadly, Tara) in turn. But there is what appears to be a new scene. It involves Anya and Buffy, who appear to be standing on the porch of Casa del Summers. Anya says something to Buffy to the effect of "So, let's talk about the/your (the sound is a bit fuzzy) future."

Of course one can read too much into this, it might only be a passing remark, but it seems like one more piece of evidence that the end of the season might involve Anya as an "arbiter" of the future. After all, why would they choose to let that one piece of dialogue play? Usually in television promos, the motive behind revealing lines of dialogue from an episode is to suggest something important about the character who utters them. This scene does appear in a segment of the promo designed to introduce the character of Anya. It's thus interesting that the clip they chose would have her talking about the future.

Anyway, just my little contribution to our growing (if cautious) pile of hope...

Battling a Buffy-Angel Fan Onslaught and Mapping the Future of Our Favorite Slayer

Death threats. Stolen identities. Smear campaigns. Revenge. No, this isn't the latest episode of 24. It's my life.

And honestly, I'm beginning to envy Jack Bauer, because even if he has to wear the same thing for an entire season, at least he isn't facing the wrath of the fiercest faction known to man--Buffy and Angel fans.

As promised in last Monday's chat, I'm going to run chief Slayer Marti Noxon's responses to your biggest Buffy concerns--and some drool-worthy news about an upcoming chat guest. But first, we need to get a few things straight about this battle I've suddenly found myself smack-dab in the thick of.

It started a few weeks ago, when I rattled off a fun-spirited (or so I thought) column about my Top 10 TV Peeves. I asked you to sound off about the funny annoyances from your favorite shows. I figured we'd rant, we'd laugh, we'd hug---we'd move on.

Then something unexpected happened in the die-hard Buffy/Angel community: You went ape-dung. You couldn't stop ranting.

I was bombarded by emails from "Buffy and Angel forever" fans who abhor the Cordelia and Angel pairing, so I gave them a voice in last week's Your Peeves column. That sent the other side--the pro-Cord-Angel fans--reeling.

Now, my inbox has become ground zero for the nastiest finger-pointing battle since Stone Cold Steve Austin and Vince McMahon, with both sides lobbing accusations and multiple email accounts and fake names to "rig" my tally.

And I'm sorry, but I just have to laugh. Who knew there were people in this world who took TV more seriously than I do?

Granted, I can argue Buffy theories until I'm blue in the face, and I've devoted much of the past year to becoming Mrs. Wanda Cooper-Vartan, but I do believe you're crossing the line when you send someone a death threat because they don't agree on whether two fictional characters should do the humpty.

So, I will handle this the only way I know how--by saying something I never, ever thought I would: It's only television, people. Lighten up. This is supposed to be fun. And besides, we should be able to get along, because we're all fans of good TV. I mean, it's not like we're dealing with those yahoos crying over the cancellation of Walker, Texas Ranger or something--they're the ones who deserve a serious ass-whooping! So, what do you say, can we get back to having a little fun around here? Can I get an Amen? Now that that's out of the way, it's time to let Marti Noxon, exec producer of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, field your concerns about exactly where the show is heading. Read on...

Let's start with the episode that really riled up the fans:

Did Buffy's trip to the mental hospital mean the entire show is just a hallucination?
Noxon: We never meant for it to be a statement of the show. If so, it would have been the very last episode of Buffy. We just wanted to have a little fun and say: "Could it have all been her hallucination?" It was a brain teaser. We believe in the world of Buffy. Wholeheartedly. We didn't want to invalidate her whole journey. It was just kind of a what-if, not a thesis statement, and we're not going to have asylum shows from now on.

Will the show lighten up?
Because of Buffy's mom dying and her dying, this season was darker, since she had to fight back from that. She'll always have travails, but we are looking to bring her back into a heroic stance. We're going to throw Buffy a bone or two. And I think, ultimately, people will be happy with the balance. There's so much cool stuff about to happen--in a way people are not expecting.

Fans have been pretty vocal in their criticism of this season. Does it have an effect?
We do listen, but we wouldn't let fan opinion change us dramatically. Sometimes, the fans are going "no, no, no!" and we know we are heading somewhere they will like.What about the folks who still want Buffy and Angel together?
They call themselves the shippers. These are the people who still have their high school sweetheart's picture in a frame on the wall. They can't seem to let things go. I think Buffy and Angel's relationship was idealized. It was like a fairy tale, in the way young girls dream about--to have this perfect, unattainable man. But you have to throw curve balls. We gave Buffy and Angel a barrier they couldn't surmount. This locks it into a romantic ideal, because they never fought over who has to do the laundry. They were stuck in the first beautifully passionate stage of love, and that's where it will be forever.

Some of the fans want Buffy and Spike together. Does that surprise you?
Sometimes, things don't go the way we intend. It seemed very obvious to us that the Buffy-Spike relationship couldn't work in the long run, so now we need to reiterate why. We need to get in there and show people the difference between loving someone who is good to be around and loving someone who is good. I think people have forgotten the Spike of two seasons ago. I mean, he tried to kill Willow! Can you really see Spike and Buffy in a condo deciding what they should watch on TV that night? That's not our thesis. What we want to show is an independent heroine who is not defined by her relationships.

How much is Joss Whedon involved in the show now?
Very. He works out the storylines, but we do have a little more freedom with the production. Right now, he's working on Firefly and the BBC show--plus Buffy and Angel. So, Joss is very busy, and he loves it. He's like a pig in poo.Okay, E! Onliners, there you have it. Now, allow me to present a peace offering to shippers and non-shippers alike: David Boreanaz will be in the house on May 6. We're chatting on the very same night his son Connor returns (all grown up), so we'll have plenty to talk about.Just promise me you'll play nice.

See you at our next chat--Monday at 6 p.m. ET--for more lip-smacking dish on all your faves.(Oh, and for the record, I was only kidding about the Texas Ranger thing. The show was gawdawful, but the big, brawny, gun-slinging people who watch it are just the coolest ever.)

Sorry - my cynicism is showing ... I'll be good.

(edited to remove article since it was already posted)

Amen

This was her "exclusive" interview with MN? Shit, I could have writen that and came up with about 95% percent of that myself.

So. Here is what I do get.

a.) They (ME) listen and they do care, but they need to tell us this story first.

b.) They listen and they don't care cause it's their damn show.

c.) They are clueless and general have a low opinion of the fans.

It seems they have a low opinion of Buffy/Angel shippers. And IF the Buffy/Spike and Angel/Cordy pairings are reactions to the fan's outrage, well is that *really* creativity or is it an immature reaction? It's about as creative as "I know what you are, but what am I!"

Warlock

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Originally posted by kpmuse:
What we want to show is an independent heroine who is not defined by her relationships.

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Oooh! That sounds like a great idea for a TV series! When are they going to make it?

Sorry... couldn't resist.

Why even have relationships like B/A, B/S, and W/T if you don't respect the fans and make things as bad as possible for them.

Warduke, why do you say you love Marti for that part. Why even develop a relationship between Buffy and Spike if she believes it is evil and immoral. If it is so wrong why even start it or B/A for that matter.

She is screwing over the W/T fans as well and from the spoilers I am getting I very much doubt there will be a reset for Taras death.

quote:

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It seemed very obvious to us that the Buffy-Spike relationship couldn't work in the long run, so now we need to reiterate why. We need to get in there and show people the difference between loving someone who is good to be around and loving someone who is good. I think people have forgotten the Spike of two seasons ago. I mean, he tried to kill Willow! Can you really see Spike and Buffy in a condo deciding what they should watch on TV that night? That's not our thesis.

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Oh boy. That's going to really rile folks up. Not, er, me. But I recognize that this is not what some folks want to be seeing coming from Marti's mouth.

-len

Althought I love Marti for this part...

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Some of the fans want Buffy and Spike together. Does that surprise you?

Sometimes, things don't go the way we intend.It seemed very obvious to us that the Buffy-Spike relationship couldn't work in the long run, so now we need to reiterate why. We need to get in there and show people the difference between loving someone who is good to be around and loving someone who is good. I think people have forgotten the Spike of two seasons ago. I mean, he tried to kill Willow! Can you really see Spike and Buffy in a condo deciding what they should watch on TV that night? That's not our thesis. What we want to show is an independent heroine who is not defined by her relationships.

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Originally posted by Aylandi:
Hi:

I don't know whether it's kosher to post links here or not, so I won't.

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Aylandi it is VERY kosher to post links here.

Posts away baby! The sooner the better

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Autumn

Strong Like An Amazon!!! Yay!!!

(and from the sounds of what's to come in the next few eps, not a moment to soon )

So she is pissed by the spoilers and so she takes it out on the fans? What the hell kinda buisness did she think she was getting into, the CIA?

Look. If you make something that gets a "cult" status, then expect the "cult" like behavior. Joss in the past as acted proud that "Buffy" stirkes a strong cord with the fans. Well, that is the price.

And these are the people telling me to "oh grow up"?

Bah. I get that B/A are over. I am cool with that. I get the idea (and support it in fact) that B/S was a bad relationship. Fine. keep them together, tear em apart, don't care.

But *why* is any of this the faults of the Willow/Tara fans? Why do we have to watch every realationship suffer.

You know what, here is another part of growing up. You find someone you love, things are great and you both live happily ever after. Granted I am not watching a Disney movie here, but a horror show. But where is the logic? Where is the compassion, hell where is the comon courtesy for the fans?

If this is their opinion of the fans, why should mine be any better for them as "artists"?

Marti, you don't want me to read any spoilers. Fine. Give me some frigging hope then I'll consider it.

Warlock.

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Marti Noxon: I think people have forgotten the Spike of two seasons ago. I mean, he tried to kill Willow!

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As opposed to ME simply killing Willow's soulmate and pushing her into an insane rage from which there is no hope of return? Whatever, Marti.

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
So she is pissed by the spoilers and so she takes it out on the fans?

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The interview did not say this. I think this is conjecture that we should not necessarily attribute to Marti. I think it is unfair to judge her motives based on someone's hypothesis about her here.

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Autumn

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Originally posted by Caesar:
She is screwing over the W/T fans as well and from the spoilers I am getting I very much doubt there will be a reset for Taras death.

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What spoilers? Are you going to actually share these? What makes you say this? Have you concrete info from episode 22 or is this conjecture? Please be specific. A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend.

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Autumn