Discussion – S6E17 – "Normal Again"

[Ryath]

BARELY in them, by the look of it.

*eyes wide, mouth agap*

Woah..in some shots, it looks like they had to PAINT those things on her.

[christa monsta]

i'm actually posting this without looking at the posts, since i want to go unspoiled. but i just noticed this morning while watching FX that Diego Gutierrez, who directs Normal Again, was listed as "Assistant to Joss Whedon" in the credits during last season (maybe before). i didn't know that.

sorry if this has already been posted...like i said, i won't read the thread until tonight...hee!

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"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."

[Rally]

Wow, I really thought this was a great episode. Definetly one to watch more than once.

Very funny in terms of ironic statements and poking fun at the fans.

The doctor telling Buffy:
"Now what is it just ordinary students you went to high school with. No gods or monsters. Just 3 pathetic little men who like playing with toys."

Buffy telling Dawn "I should be taller than you." and "Willow is doing her chores isn't she."

The last scene between Buffy and Joyce was very sad.

Of course Willow and Tara goodness.

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No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

[tommo]

Thanks for the pics Ange. Hmm...I bet that poor girl, whoever she is, is the most hated woman in the Buffyverse right now. Poor thing. Heh. Puttin' her lips on Tara like that... *mumble grumble mutter*

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[wiltar]

OMG! I thought this was a great ep, but kinda scary... actually very scary, it plays not only with Buffy's mind, but also with mine... Damn, gotta recover from watching this ep.

Patricia

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"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[Corinthian]

Ange
OMG! 160 pics?! Are you a busy little kitten!

And thank you. Thank you.

No really. Thank you.

[Corinthian]

Oh the pants...

I am definitely with the woo and hoo here...

[xita]

Well the pants wow! But the shoes, dyke shoes I tell ya.

That girl grrrrrrrr.. Willow was so excited . i can't wait to see it soon now, soon! I'll have a ton more to say.

[AutumnT]

You know Will's assets don't look so bad themselves when she's all storming off.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[Dr.G]

Hee hee Autumn, I could not help but notice that as well. Some great ass action in this ep, a nice continuation from the boobtouchage last week.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 12, 2002).]

[xita]

Well the sassy eggs are making an appearance too, Willow in the beginning and Tara at the end.

[Ham]

man, this ep was truly amazing.

The moving back and forth from realities was done really well and the illusions that her doctor was making to the season so far were really clever. The way he told Buffy that her world was falling apart, that she was losing grip on her delusion, was a great way of explaining her state of mind through most of the eps this season. Though I found it rather funny when Buffy started to believe this simply because Dawn was taller than her. The fact that Dawn wasn't there was also clever, illustrating Buffy's distance from Dawn. Furthermore the idea that Buffy was not in heaven over the summer but in the instution. Of course Buffy said that heaven was white and Joyce was there, much like the institution.

It was obvious from the things dealt with in the ep that it came from an outside perspective, someone who has watched the season and understands its themes completely, but can put a new slant on it. I also got the feeling that ME were using it as a way to comment on the season. The doctor's speech about how once her battles were grand and now she is just fighting little men is very similar to the complaints some people have been expressing.

The moment when Buffy decided her life was so awful that she'd rather be in the institution was heart wrenching, and the look on her face when she was tying up the scoobs in the basement, urgh, it was just horrible. This was such a powerful episode.

Joyce's words to Buffy, "You're too good to give in, you can beat this thing" are very important and I think are going to be much of the focal point for the rest of the season, that Buffy can survive. I also liked the fact that it was only when Joyce told Buffy that she would always be with her that Buffy found the strength to face her real life.

I liked the slightly ambiguous end, that perhaps the series as a whole always has and always will be just someone's delusional fantasy, which in a way I guess it is. What's most important about this scene is that Buffy is catatonic during it. In all the other institution scenes Buffy was lucid, but not this one. This means that at that moment, in Buffy's head, she was still in sunnydale and so the world of the asylum must have existed outside her mind. Interesting.

But on to the all-important W/T. Willow was the cutest I've ever seen. Psyching herself up to talk to Tara was just cute. But the look on her face when she saw the other girl was painful. I liked the way it was almost mirrored by Tara when she saw Willow leaving. Plus the scene with Buffy rocked, cos Willow did pouty face when she was talking about the lips. I love pouty face. And hurrah for 'knight in shining armour' Tara to come in and save the day. Is it just me, or is it great when you get to hear Willow shouting "Tara!" as she rushes over to check she's okay? Yay for 'getting back together'ery ness. Plus go Tara for going to the Summers' house in the first place.

All in all this ep rocked my world. If only all TV was this good.

[This message has been edited by Ham (edited March 12, 2002).]

[Web Warlock]

I liked this ep. Much more than I thought I would and I was spoiled to hell and back. Still I was hoping for more "X-Files" and less "Deep Space Nine".

Ok the random bits first.
Willow. Loved the pick up line bit, "coffee, food, kisses, gay love"!
It was really just the other day that I was thinking "what would Willow/Aly look like in a pony tail." My answer, a hell of lot better than I imagined, and I have a good imagination! Loved the hat in the graveyard seen as well.
Willow may have looked hurt, but so did Tara in the "accidental kiss" scene.

Xander is an idiot. But at least I know he would be the first to agree with me.

Tara, looking wonderful as always, and working the good mojo too. She also looked a bit nervous when she came into Buffy’s house.

I betting Dawn has got to be real sick and tired of this whole “not existing” thing.

Loved the "I should be taller" line from Buffy, re: Dawn.
Hard to see Joyce again, but glad to see that she can still give Buffy good advice.

Ok, bigger issues.
Did ya get the self-referential feeling of this whole ep? I felt it was also extended to the whole season. If anyone needs the Cliff notes for Season 6, they are right here. Let's hope Buffy snaps out of it.

I guess the S/B shippers will hate this one. Xander hits Spike and Buffy admits she hates him. Though I admit I feel bad for the guy.

Well, I am of to watch it again. Gota see these pants everyone is talking about….

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

[This message has been edited by Web Warlock (edited March 12, 2002).]

[Rally]

quote:

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Well, I am of to watch it again. Gota see these pants everyone is talking about?

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Hey, we are breaking down the whole ensemble this episode. Pants, jackets, shoes and those chesty curtains the girls are so fond of wearing all the time.

quote:

[AutumnT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Loved the hat in the graveyard seen as well.

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This may be an important day in Willow fashion. A day she actually wears a hat that flatters her. Who knew it could happen.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

[scylla]

Someone at the Cross & Stake said s/he thought the episode was nothing more than filler. So far, I'm inclined to disagree. I think it might be really important.

The Key opened the gates that separate dimensions. The blood flowed into the right place at the right time, thus opening those gates. And this is exactly what Buffy jumped into when she jumped to her "death." So I'm thinking the asylum is real and connected with Buffy jumping into a "wood between the worlds" (The Magician's Nephew, C.S. Lewis: Magic rings brought the children to a wooded place with many pools of water. Each pool of water was the entrance/exit to a world.).

Anyway, I haven't even seen the episode yet, so my opinion might change...

[Divine Princess Fuchsia]

Yaaay, Narnia reference! Yaaay Tara saves the day! Yaaay mental institutions! Ummm....Ok. Mybe not the last one.If it turns out to be a hallucination, waaaaay to Dallas for my liking. I have faith in Joss, but I really wanna see more alterna-Buffy! Or even ANY, I havne't seen this ep yet. Still, can't wait to read the transcript when I have time. I agree, poor old Dawnie. I want to see some good storylines from her, the girl has potential. I've said it once and I'll say it again: I miss Joyce.

Kaite xx

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''We HAVE to kill some cooler people'' - Sunday the cute vampire

''Those of you who fall into my good graces will come to know me as Maggie. Those of you who don't will know me by the name my T.A's use and think I don't know about: The Evil Bitch Monster of Death''. - Maggie Walsh

"My boyfriend is malfunctioning"
-Janeway to the Doc, "Spirit Folk", ST:VOY

[PandoraSpocks]

I saw the ep. last night and my mind was swimming. The ep. was mind-blowing, I couldn't get to sleep last night. My friend said the reason for showing that last scene was to state that, that was the real reality and she choose the other. That drove me insane (no pun intended) That would mean we've been watching from begining, the imagination of a raving loon and none of the characters were real. I like to believe this world was buffy's needed for a reason to explain why her life is messed up and the last scene indicated she was finally willing to accept responsiblity.

I had quite the night myself last night and coming off that ep. it seemed a little more freaky. My brother had a temp. of 104, he awoke in the middle of the night running through the house screaming jibberish and it took 3 of my family members to restrain him. He doesn't remember a thing and thankfully recovering today.

[tommo]

I love it. Let's focus on the t and a people. Bugger the storyline!

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[Kittie17]

wow, what an ep! I was spoiler free for this one and I knew i was going to like it, it was great.
yay for Tara's pant!
Willow was sooo cute (as usual)"gay love", same with Tara. But i thought we were going to see a bit more of them touching, but that was ok.
Then... I was so happy Tara came into the house, just in time and save everyone. I swear it sacared me to death when Buffy grabed her leg and she felt down. But there was Willow calling her name and going after her. aww the love!
The ep was pretty scary. Buffy hurting Xander was hard to see..
Sarah did a good job. And it was nice to see Joyce again.
Now I can't wait for ep18!

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Todo lo que necesitamos es sentido comun y eso no puede ser enseñado

[GODisTigger]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
I love it. Let's focus on the t and a people. Bugger the storyline!

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But, isn't that what we are supposed to be doing?

quote:

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Originally posted by Kittie17:
Buffy hurting Xander was hard to see..

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Ah, another incentive to watch!

D

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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.

[This message has been edited by GODisTigger (edited March 12, 2002).]quote:quote:

[ilia_mr]

wow, what an incredible episode. the whole "alternate reality/mental institution" thing has been done before so many times, but only this show can make it feel so original. Very well done.
Liked the way they kept bringing in all the complaints/doubts the fans seem to be voicing all over the 'net. Buffy's "I should be taller than you" to Dawn was my favorite. It was a very confusing and disturbing episode to watch at times, but really really good, overall. Buffy did look like she'd completely lost it when she began to tie up her friends. And, to be honest, it put more questions in my mind than it answered...

On to W/T: Yes, it WAS hard to see Will hurt, just as she was thinking of approaching Tara again, but it's good Tara saw her. She looked equally concerned. I think overall it will turn out to be a good thing that all happened, even if it's hard to watch. I'm sure this will speed up the reconciliation b/w them (I'm hoping, praying, wishing it will ). That scene was also EXTREMELY reminiscent of NMR, when Oz came to Giles' place and Tara was there and she looked so hurt. Oh, I do hope we're treated to another "We were just talking" conversation-- soon.
Oh, and another thing, Amber looked amazing in this episode, and both Tara and Willow actually wore really cool clothes. Ah, some goodness in all the insanity that was going on. Guess I should go watch all those less-confusing parts again-- after I'm done watching NMR-- yet again...

Ilia M.-- trying to stay spoiler-free for the rest of the season...

[This message has been edited by ilia_mr (edited March 12, 2002).]

[j_uk]

I was completely spoiler free (although I remember hearing something about an insane asylum once) and loved it. I just wish hadn't put 'Kristine Sutherland as Joyce' in big letters at the start. I also wish they wouldn't try to hide the commercial break between parts 3 and 4...

Willow shouldn't be worried about anyone called 'Kissing Girl'.

I did predict the ending about 10 minutes before. All it needed was a smug bloke doing a voiceover and it would have been exactly like an episode of The Outer Limits.

[The Rose]

A very disturbing ep.

First, it is really hard watching Willow think Tara is interested in anyone else, but it is good to see Willow get jealous sometime too. I agree Willow is so very cute and lovestruck in this ep. The looks on both Tara and Willow's faces are heartbreaking. Great performances once again by Amber and Aly. Next, it finally great to see some of Tara's powers. She has been overshadowed by Willow too long.
With all the emphasis placed on Willow's powers, we have not got to see much of Tara's powers. On that note, what happened to Tara's intuition? We see it in "Hush," WAY and the body. She always seemed to have sort of a sixth sense.

Second, I know a lot of people do not think Xander is really in love with Anya, but I think he is. He proves it in this ep. he says he feels like part of him is missing, and if that is not love, then I do not know what is.

Third, Spike is REALLY an ANNOYING JERK in this ep(I can't say what I really want to say about him) I am glad Xander punches him in his mouth because he deserves it. If he loves Buffy so much, why didn't he stay to make sure Buffy takes the antidote? All he is worried about is Buffy not telling the gang about their unrelationship. He still is trying to tempt Buffy to the dark side. Yeah, he has really changed.

Fourth, Buffy always gets knocked back a few steps when she takes a few steps forward. Just when you think she is starting to snap out of it, badness happens. *Sigh* SMG has a BRILLIANT performance in this ep as usual.

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Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

[This message has been edited by The Rose (edited March 12, 2002).]

[Eyes Without A Face]

Nice episode. Twas good to see Joyce again.

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Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

[Rosenberg]

Well, that was very strange. There's not much left of my mind right now to boggle, so I think I'll have to watch this one a few more times to catch what I might have missed. I have a feeling there were some significant points made that totally escaped me the first time around. Yes, to quote the nerds, it was definitely like a Ken Russell film clip. The comment about the nerds not being gods or demons, just three pathetic little men who like to play with toys, is probably not just a throw-away line.

There were a number of allusions made to altered states of mind and alternative realities. Spike even mentioned alternate realities when he was talking to Xander. Her Mom mentioning to Buffy that 'whatever it was, it's not real'and telling her that her friends aren't really her friends, just traps. I have a feeling this may have significance in upcoming episodes. And the ending with Buffy in the hospital room with the doctor saying, "I'm afraid we've lost her" is really blowing my mind (no pun intended).

Now, the important stuff. Willow was absolutely adorable practicing her pick-up lines. "Do you want to out out some time for coffee, food, kisses and gay love?" Who could resist that? She looked so cute as she was gathering her nerve to approach Tara, and then the look of devastation on her face when she saw the 'friend' kiss Tara was heart-wrenching. Tara also shared the same look when she noticed Willow had seen her. (BTW, I thought Tara's friend was kind of cute). I liked the pouty face Willow when she was talking to Buffy about it, and Buffy's response was great. "Once you fall for Willow, you stay fallen." How true! And we got to see Tara save the day. It was nice to see her come to the house to explain the friend situation to Willow (at least I'm assuming that's why she came over). It shows how much she really cares about Willow and how concerned she is for her feelings. I also loved Tara's boots and tight pants, and Willow's skirt in the opening scene fit very
nicely.

All in all, even though I found it a bit confusing at times, I think this may wind up being an important episode. I'm just not sure in what respect right now.

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I'm very seldom naughty

[Kalita]

Well, very interesting. Let me say first off that yes, great W/T moments. I think the whole reason Tara came to the house was to explain what happened on campus the day before, and make sure Willow wasn't all upset. Just to clarify, y'see. "A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend."

As for Dream-Institution-World, I'm thinking that was generated by the poison. Literally. Being demon poision, it's perfectly logical that it could either be intelligent, or somehow linked to the demon himself.

What it did was find Buffy's original institution experience (or maybe just created the memory, but that's a strech), and took advantage of it to give Buffy a 'better' reality. It came up with the idea of clonking off her friends, and then guess what? It had her release the demon on them. Gee, that sounds right in the demon's best interests, eh?

But, the image of Joyce telling her to be strong and solid doesn't gel. At that point it would want her to stay out of things and let the demon do its work. An imperfect theory, but I like it...

And yes, Spike was an utter ass with his speech at the bedroom door. Gee, want to lose the girl? Kill her self-esteem.

Of course, now the cat's out of the bag about Spike and Buffy (she told Dawn as she came after her), so much 'splaining to do.

Also... anyone notice the conspicuous absence of one Emma Caulfield?...

[eekiboo]

my first reaction when i saw Buffy in the mental institution was,... "mmm, i've seen this already"... and yup, saw it in an episode of Charmed. Piper was also in a mental institution and that her Charmed sisters do not exist, she's not a witch, etc. etc. so goes the same with Buffy, she's not a slayer, her friends do not exist, etc. etc.

it was good to see Joyce and Dad Hank. most esp. that Scoobies' hug when Xander came back. reminded me of Primeval, when they hugged in the elevator shaft. awww...

now on to the good parts... yes, Tara to the rescue! i'm wondering, Tara probably felt something was wrong (soul mate in danger) so she rushed to see what it was. yay on her magic spells! go Tara! Willow was pretty cute when she was practicing her lines. COFFEE, FOOD, KISSES AND GAY LOVE whoo hoo! lol ;e isn't it, it was just a peck on the cheek and not really on the lips that the other girl did? and Willow's pained reaction - from happy to sad... ugh! horrible! well atleast it had a good ending, yes on Gay Love! go Gay Love! lol pax

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Willow and Tara
Willow and Tara's Room

[appelle]

Hi all... I'm a new poster...

I second everyone calling this episode disturbing. It was unnerving watching Buffy struggle with her own mind, and try to determine what was real. What really mattered, I guess. I kind of saw this as her decision to finally start "living again", or at least, take a step further back into life. I know it's been dealt with extensively already this season - her resurrection, her recovery - but, girlfriend died, it's a lot to get over.

Yay Tara goodness...

One thing I noticed in this ep was how they referred to the demon as the "Big Bad" a few times. Mostly Willow, I think. But just casually, as if it were no big thing. Of course we know that not to be true. I don't know what possible relevance it could have, except that there's no way the writers don't know what "Big Bad" means to fans.

Edited to remove spoilers I am SO sorry I didn't realize what I was doing until I read it over...

[This message has been edited by appelle (edited March 12, 2002).]

[Glory-p3-mrs]

well:
*takes a big breath then lets it out as she realizes that she has nothing to say and everyone else has deja vu of that henchmen from OMWF*

molly officially has a thing for girls in pony-tails...and thats sayin' a lot

now, i knew tara was going to come and save the day, really the only option (anya was very much gone - maybe shes hanging with Cordy) but i kept thinking it'd be a tinker bell thing
although i guess if she was coming over to tell willow all about this non-girlfriend person then i could accept the lack of 'finding' or 'lovers intuition'

some funny stuff, but all has been said
willow practicing was gorgeous
and then sad...*tear*

sorry...really sorry...but: Tara has friends???
not before willow she didn't

nobody falls out of love with willow, eh?
um, oz?

i thought they were going to get back together! hey!

and, woah, physco buffy

dawn was less annoying and more deserving of being a bitch

i thought buffy was going to starngle her like in her catatonic dream though

and that willow would say:
"what do you mean, we're not real? do you think you'd imagine that your best friends were gay and in love with ex-demons?"

dawn said it was buffy's ideal reality.
in a mental hospital?

ummm..thats it
poor will...
cute hair though

edited to ask when the next new one is since previews we a no-show tonight
please don't be too long...

[This message has been edited by Glory-p3-mrs (edited March 12, 2002).]

edited again to say that i checked TV guide online and that Tabula Rasa in on next week
Whoo and Hoo!
i really want to see that epp again
even though its the (re)start of much pain..

[This message has been edited by Glory-p3-mrs (edited March 12, 2002).]