by The Partyman » Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:55 pm
quote:
Originally posted by supermus:
I've made my decision. After I read AngelX's Spike update today, I'm quitting spoilers until the end of the season. I know that in the Final Four, a lot of shits gonna go down, and I wanna be surprised and be in suspense for that. So Fare thee well spoiler thread, see ya in 2 months.
Its a hard habit to kick, but a good idea.
Good Luck with the withdrawl!
quote:by SpeedyT » Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:56 pm
As far as people saying that they would never kill a charicter that we have all grown to love and one that has become so important to the show- need I remind you all of Jenny Calendar? She was a part of the scoobies ( in the saem respect that tara is). Joss Killed Jenny and nobody saw it comming- I'm sure everyone would have thought there was no way they could do that to Giles, to the show, to the viewers!?!?!! But they did it, and they did it VIOLENTLY, I mean Jenny died and it was pretty graphic. Jenny died to bring Giles charicter to a place that he needed to be- to a place of such solid despair that he would risk his life for vengence. The saem would be true for willow- the one thing that was keeping her from the dark magic, the one thing that willow lived for , her true love, savagly taken from her-it needs to happen. The same way that buffy needed to lose everything last year ( riley, her mom) except for dawn- dawn was the only thing that hadnt been taken away from her- the only thing she had to fight for, she didnt want to live ina world that continually caused her pain and stripped her of everything. WE needed to see that as viewers.
If you want take the "too easy"stance then bring up that reset theory again, that , in my opinion would be fully cheating on the part of the writers and completely unimaginative.
Dont get me wrong I love willow and tara, one of my favorite moments from season 5 was when willow tells tara that she found her- or when they danced several feet off the ground in the episode that depicted taras birthday. But I'm also a fan of the story, I'm a fan of the exceptional writing on this show. I mean I would LOVE to see Faith come back, I was sad when she went to prison- I mean what a fabulous idea for a charicter, a rouge slayer, a girl with super powers and no morals- what a great idea. But when she left and went to prison I knew it was for the good of the story, for the good of the charicter and for the good of all the other charicters.
I was hopeing when I heard the spoiler that willow goes bad, that tara would be the one to bring her back, the one to "find her" like willow did with tara did last year- maybe thats what will happen??
I am Gay myself and I think to say that killing Tara off and making willow bad is a bad cliche really just has no merit whatsoever. There not killing the charicter BECAUSE she's gay, there not making Willow bad BECAUSE she's gay. The charicters just happen to be in a beautiful relationship and they happen to both be gay- tara isnt being killed by someone that hates gay women. So to say that it's irresposible to kill off the gay charicter is like saying every show needs to have a gay charicter and that charicter needs to be treated on a higher level than every other charicter- completely untouchable and impervious to harm or negative story arcs. I think it was a great idea by the writers to have willow discover that she could love someone no matter what sex they were.
Anyways- those are just my thoughts after reading tons and tons of posts- I'm now going to duck for cover from all the W/T shippers that will definitly want to hate me now ( please dont- I love W/T too! really! I just love the good story and the great show that we all love)
by xita » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:02 pm
And don't insult me by comparing jenny to tara. Not in the same ball park.
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 15, 2002).]
by Web Warlock » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:03 pm
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.
by breaking » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:04 pm
Just needed to get it out.
thanks
breaking
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where do we go from here?
by Sela » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:07 pm
What I also find bizarre is how public Amber has been of late. I feel like I see this girl everywhere. Maybe that's just my own skewed perception, but she's the feature in the new Buffy magazine, she was on Loveline last night, she's signed on for two conventions in the summer, and she still has two Willow and Tara comics coming out. Honestly, she's the most visible and vocal person on the show. I keep thinking that there's a reason for this too. I could be grasping here, folks...but I do think this is what Joss meant when he said that Amber is a big part of the heart of the show. I just think it's interesting that he said Amber and not Tara.
I volunteer to make banners for the denial bus. Oh, and I'll chip in for the Kiwi shoe polish if anyone wants to write on the windows!
--Sela
by Eric tr » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:11 pm
by Rally » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:12 pm
------
Knew I forgot *something*... Buffy doesn't... -- AnGeL X, 17:49:32 03/15/02 Fri
...decide to sent Dawn to Spike. It's entirely Dawn's choice and Buffy's really not in a position to argue. Buffy *knows* that despite what Spike did and could do to *her*, he could and would never do that to Dawn. The relationship he has with Dawn has never been anything but protective and he would die for her as he's proven many times. Buffy, on the other hand, has always been able to take his forcefulness and occasional violence, so whatever forcefulness he uses in 19 is somewhat based on previous experiences where Buffy doesn't mind that behavior so much. It's not an attempt to hurt her, it's him acting like he used to with her, but this time, she's not falling for him.
This of course, is addressed in 20 when Dawn announces that she wants to go to Spike... it shouldn't be ignored.
-Michelle
------
------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.
by Epicurus » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpeedyT:
Now as far as Tara dieing, who knows if she's the one who will bite it, but I do have to say- PLEASE joss, dont kill her and bring her back, thats been done so many times on this show, I think if they killed Tara and then reserected her it would be unacceptable for this show, cheese X 10.
"unacceptable" or not, that is the only scenario I am willing to live with. We know Tara dies. I hereby beg for cheese.
quote:by Rally » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:16 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Eric tr:
I have an idea, but I need a question answered first before I post it. Isn't there some sort of convention coming up in Santa Barbara that Amber Benson is going to be at?
Try this thread here Eric
------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.
by Sela » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:17 pm
--Sela
by Nightspirit » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:17 pm
I know I can see relevence to the entire series in that. I'm sure I can equate W/T with Isis. Unfortunately, my brain is not working, and I'm not very good at analysing today (if ever). Anyone else want to take a shot?
by athenia » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:26 pm
by Sela » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:32 pm
I prefer my special moments to be all saccharine delight. I'll gladly pass on bittersweet.
--Sela
by xita » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:32 pm
by Warduke » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:34 pm
So what you’re saying is when Tara dies, Joss should not bring her back because it would be cheap, cheesy right? Well you may be a BtVS fan but you’re not a W/T shipper, because if you were, you wouldn’t care how they bring her back, just as long as they do, I don’t give a damn if it’s been done or not, if it makes the writers look bad, I don’t care at all.
And as for killing Tara and making Willow bad, that it’s not homophobic, well let me tell you, yes it is!
Joss and the other writers are not homophobic but it doesn’t matter, the message that this will send is very loud and very clear…if you are gay, you will die or turn evil, that is the cliché and this is the reinforcement of that cliché, there is no doubt of this, a lot of people who will see this will think just that, "I knew that damn lesbian was gonna die and now Willow will pay for being gay." So you think that message is a good one to send to the viewing public?
Well since I am a W/T shipper, the only thing that matters to me is what happens to them, like I said, I don’t care how they do it, I don’t care how it makes Joss and the writers look, as long as W/T are together at the end, that’s all I want, that’s all I need.
And like xita said, comparing Jenny to Tara…please [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
Eric tr--yes, as a matter of fact, there is. It's on April 27 at Metro Entertainment. Hope this helps.--Sela
Ok, that's perfect then. Here's my idea.
I know that Amber can't discuss anything really about upcoming episodes for fear of the wrath of Joss. She isn't allowed to tell if Tara comes back to life or not.
Another thing we know about Amber is that she just filmed the scene where Willow finds Tara's body and it was supposed to be her last filming of the week (and possibly the season).
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
[This message has been edited by Eric tr (edited March 15, 2002).]
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The Greek writing on Tara's back is actually a Sappho poem (Sappho Fragment 1)
entitled, "Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne" The translation is by Peter Saint-André.
Here's the translation:
Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne,
Enchantress, daughter of Zeus: I beg you, queen, Do not overpower my soul with heartaches and hard troubles,
But come here, if ever at another time
Having heard my voice you paid me attention
And leaving the golden house of your father
you came to me,
Yoking your horse and chariot: gorgeous swift
Sparrows carried you over the coal-black earth, Thickly whirling their feathers through the midst of heaven's ether.
Swiftly they arrived, and you, O blessed one,
Smiling with your immortal face, you asked for What I suffered, and why again I call you
And what in my maddened soul I desire most
To happen to me: what dearest one shall I now
Persuade to lead you back to her — who, O Sappho,wronged you this time?
For even if she flees, swiftly she will pursue; And if she does not receive my gifts, she will give;
And if she does not love me, swiftly she will love, Even against her will. So come to my aid now, Release me from my grievous cares, fulfill as much
As my heart yearns to be fulfilled: come, be my fellow-fighter.
IP: Logged
Hmm, yeah. That sorta makes sense. But how would she know that there even was another reality for the pendant to be destroyed in if she didn't remember the wish being granted? And how, in "Doppelgängland", did she know how to find the Wishverse if she had not one clue about it? How did she have any idea who VampWillow was and where she came from? Did she just somehow surmise this all? That's a lot of surmisage.
I'm not convinced I'm right, but I'm not convinced you are either. I think there's enough wiggle room here that, if ME wants Anya to remember a wish-created reality, they can get away with it. They've gotten away with a lot more in the past.
Popje wrote: "I’m still sticking to my theory that this season will end like a Shakespearean Romance...vs. Shakespearean tragedy. ...Willow...She’s like Prospero to me, bent on revenge having all the power. But will she be turned away from her vengeful plans by a miracle? Ie a “returned” Miranda (ie Tara)...?"
Wow, I was thinking much the same thing. When I first heard the spoilers, actually, I was thinking tragedy--how could you not? Tara could certainly be a Desdemona or Ophelia, as others have pointed out...though the first thing I flashed on was King Lear, Lear's incalculable rage and grief when he discovers Cordelia dead. KL has always struck me as the absolute bleakest of Shakespeare's works, and this is about the bleakest the Buffyverse has ever become.
But then I started thinking about The Tempest...Miranda is my favorite character in all of Shakespeare, and Tara is my favorite character in Buffy, and I have often made a connection between Willow/Prospero and Tara/Miranda. Prospero willingly gives up magick and reconciles himself to his old life not only because of his love for Miranda, but because of Miranda's love for the world, her innate goodness. I very much hoped to see this season's arc play out like this.
Then I started thinking, what if Tara is Ariel? He's a magickal being like Prospero, and not to get too into wacky theories here but I've always felt there was an undercurrent of romantic love in the Prospero/Ariel relationship--a homosexual love that is manifest in W/T. And when Prospero abjures magick and leaves the island, he leaves Ariel behind. Caliban is also left behind, Caliban could be Spike, the man/monster, who is supposedly going to die as well. In this scenario I see Dawn as Miranda--after all, the world really is new to her.
Obviously I don't like this scenario as much, and I still see Tara as much more a Miranda figure than Dawn, but...I don't know. It's probably all pointless speculation anyway, but then, we know Joss loves his Shakespeare.
Corinthian wrote: "I thought that when you broke Anyanka's amulet it 'reset' the world so that there NEVER was a time when Buffy DIDN'T come to Sunnydale. In order to reach into that specific past means it DID happen after all. Reaching into the past for Anyanka's amulet is one thing (she's been around for 1100 years) but DarkWillow? She existed briefly in the Wishverse but that reality was erased when Giles destroyed Anyanka's amulet. Therefore DarkWillow never existed. UNLESS she existed in a divergent reality that always existed, and Cordelia was shunted there when she made her wish."
Here's how I think of it. The Wishverse is neither a parallel nor a divergent universe. If we imagine time as linear (which it isn't, but we perceive it that way), then we can picture the regular Buffyverse as a line on a page. When Cordelia's wish is granted, it distorts that line, pushing it off-track, as it were. When the wish is ended, the timeline reverts to its natural shape. However, the distorted line remains and rejoins the natural line, creating a sort of bubble on the side of it, which contains the alternate events depicted in "The Wish". That's what the pendant does, it creates little bubbleverses of distorted timeline...as long as a wish remains in effect, the distorted timeline continues. If the pendant is destroyed, the timeline reverts to its normal, non-wish-affected shape, but--and this is the key--the bubbles remain. They are not full parallel or divergent realities because they are finite, but they still exist. That explains how VampWillow could be brought into the Buffyverse, and also why that demon guy that Anya cursed showed up in "Hell's Bells", even though the destruction of Anya's pendant should have reversed the wish that made him. It did get reversed, and that guy (what was his name?) led his regular life and died, but the bubblebverse containing his demon self still existed, and he found his way out of it (we know it's possible given "Doppelgängland") to torment Anya in "Hell's Bells".
I will not be happy if the season ends with a wish to make everyone alive again rather than the breaking of a wish that made everybody die, both for the reasons Ari discussed earlier and because I don't like the idea of Tara being alive in a bubbleverse rather than the "real" Buffyverse. It's too fragile.
april wrote: "[the sex scene] makes pretty much all of our w/t dreams come true. in the end, w/t were given the exact same treatment as any other couple on the show, and allowed to show as much as any other couple."
I personally will hold off on whether this makes my W/T dreams come true until I see it. It could be much tamer than we're hoping. And as for the "treated like any other couple" thing, I know you were thinking in terms of sex, but people keep saying that, and I just don't see how they're treating W/T like "any other couple":
Buffy/Angel--Angel still alive (or still undead), Buffy not evil
Buffy/Riley--Riley still alive (and pretty happy), Buffy not evil
Willow/Oz--Oz still alive, Willow not evil, yet
Xander/Cordelia--Cordelia still alive, Xander not evil
Willow/Tara--Tara dead, Willow evil
And as everyone has said, Giles/Jenny is not even in the same universe as W/T, so there's no basis for comparison there.
april further wrote: "it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering. a gay couple on a mainstream, not gay-focused show has NEVER been treated the same as the show's straight couples before, in terms of what they're allowed to show onscreen."
Again I realize you're talking about the sex, but I still don't see how it's the same. They have sex and then immediately afterward Tara dies and Willow goes evil? This is The Lesbian Cliché. All of the homophobes will be gaping at their screens as W/T make love, their neanderthal rage boiling, and then boom, Tara dead, Willow evil. The phobes relax as they realize that divine justice has been meted out. The implications are staggering indeed, but not in a good way. All of the good that W/T have accomplished over the past 2 years could be erased by this one act.
Ari wrote: "I'm still thinking that we are currently caught in a circle of Whedon's Inferno wherein spoiler hos are punished and tortured by being given just enough spoilage to inspire general panic while leaving out the vital information that puts everything in context."
I hope that's the case. But if it is, I guess I don't really understand why our "crime" was so horrible that we deserved this. I keep thinking, we're like kids peeking at the Xmas presents hidden in the closet. And ME is like our parents saying, "If you peek, Santa will not only leave you a lump of coal but he will personally murder your favorite stuffed animal."
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric tr:
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
LOL. Spoiler deduction at it's finest.
Tricking the poor unsuspecting actor into inadvertently spilling the beans. I like the way you think!
Dazey I have to commend you. It’s not often I will give up 5 to 10 minutes reading a single post and yours always offer good insight.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
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quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Northern Exposure did that last decade. Watch your lesbian lover die, it's so fun and original.
Ah yes, there "homage" to "Fried Green Tomatoes"..
Yes, the list of this crap is long and endless
Man, there is a nasty rant from me coming soon..
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quote:
Originally posted by Epicurus:Ok so now...
We find out from the script that Tara dies.
do we have script text yumminess on the board? did i miss it? has dsm been here and i somehow didnt notice?...... where is siad script?
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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
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EDITED TO ADD:
The script in question is in reards to AnGelX's spoilers she posted. That's what I was refering to. OH and there is no script bits on this board about the death.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
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quote:
Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
But finding out if she was still filming wouldn't really tell us if there was a reset: it could be flashbacks.
Yes, you might be right. But my point is that if someone asks her about any additional filming and she says yes, then there is more hope to believe that Tara could return alive. There's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?
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I don't care if it's cheesy, I don't care how lame some people may think it is (and I have a feeling it won't be). I just refuse to believe that that's gonna be the punchline to the W/T story. That no matter what, if you're gay, you're gonna end up dead or evil. There *has* to be more to this. If they leave Tara dead, if they show Willow as evil, even if they try and redeem her later, I will not stick around to see what they do next year. For me, they have till the end of the season to clarify what the hell the point of all this is.
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[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: LoggedEric trFloating Rose quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
Eric tr--yes, as a matter of fact, there is. It's on April 27 at Metro Entertainment. Hope this helps.--Sela
Ok, that's perfect then. Here's my idea.
I know that Amber can't discuss anything really about upcoming episodes for fear of the wrath of Joss. She isn't allowed to tell if Tara comes back to life or not.
Another thing we know about Amber is that she just filmed the scene where Willow finds Tara's body and it was supposed to be her last filming of the week (and possibly the season).
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
[This message has been edited by Eric tr (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 18:36quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
Eric tr--yes, as a matter of fact, there is. It's on April 27 at Metro Entertainment. Hope this helps.--Sela
Ok, that's perfect then. Here's my idea.
I know that Amber can't discuss anything really about upcoming episodes for fear of the wrath of Joss. She isn't allowed to tell if Tara comes back to life or not.
Another thing we know about Amber is that she just filmed the scene where Willow finds Tara's body and it was supposed to be her last filming of the week (and possibly the season).
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
[This message has been edited by Eric tr (edited March 15, 2002).]
quote:IP: LoggedStarfuctFloating Rose The Greek writing on Tara's back is actually a Sappho poem (Sappho Fragment 1)
entitled, "Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne" The translation is by Peter Saint-André.
Here's the translation:
Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne,
Enchantress, daughter of Zeus: I beg you, queen, Do not overpower my soul with heartaches and hard troubles,
But come here, if ever at another time
Having heard my voice you paid me attention
And leaving the golden house of your father
you came to me,
Yoking your horse and chariot: gorgeous swift
Sparrows carried you over the coal-black earth, Thickly whirling their feathers through the midst of heaven's ether.
Swiftly they arrived, and you, O blessed one,
Smiling with your immortal face, you asked for What I suffered, and why again I call you
And what in my maddened soul I desire most
To happen to me: what dearest one shall I now
Persuade to lead you back to her — who, O Sappho,wronged you this time?
For even if she flees, swiftly she will pursue; And if she does not receive my gifts, she will give;
And if she does not love me, swiftly she will love, Even against her will. So come to my aid now, Release me from my grievous cares, fulfill as much
As my heart yearns to be fulfilled: come, be my fellow-fighter.
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 18:45 I noticed someone expressed interest in the Greek Writing that Willow was scribbing on Tara's back in Restless. This may be old news on this thread, but it is too long to go back a check if this may be a repeat of old news!The Greek writing on Tara's back is actually a Sappho poem (Sappho Fragment 1)
entitled, "Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne" The translation is by Peter Saint-André.
Here's the translation:
Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne,
Enchantress, daughter of Zeus: I beg you, queen, Do not overpower my soul with heartaches and hard troubles,
But come here, if ever at another time
Having heard my voice you paid me attention
And leaving the golden house of your father
you came to me,
Yoking your horse and chariot: gorgeous swift
Sparrows carried you over the coal-black earth, Thickly whirling their feathers through the midst of heaven's ether.
Swiftly they arrived, and you, O blessed one,
Smiling with your immortal face, you asked for What I suffered, and why again I call you
And what in my maddened soul I desire most
To happen to me: what dearest one shall I now
Persuade to lead you back to her — who, O Sappho,wronged you this time?
For even if she flees, swiftly she will pursue; And if she does not receive my gifts, she will give;
And if she does not love me, swiftly she will love, Even against her will. So come to my aid now, Release me from my grievous cares, fulfill as much
As my heart yearns to be fulfilled: come, be my fellow-fighter.
Hmm, yeah. That sorta makes sense. But how would she know that there even was another reality for the pendant to be destroyed in if she didn't remember the wish being granted? And how, in "Doppelgängland", did she know how to find the Wishverse if she had not one clue about it? How did she have any idea who VampWillow was and where she came from? Did she just somehow surmise this all? That's a lot of surmisage.
I'm not convinced I'm right, but I'm not convinced you are either. I think there's enough wiggle room here that, if ME wants Anya to remember a wish-created reality, they can get away with it. They've gotten away with a lot more in the past.
Popje wrote: "I’m still sticking to my theory that this season will end like a Shakespearean Romance...vs. Shakespearean tragedy. ...Willow...She’s like Prospero to me, bent on revenge having all the power. But will she be turned away from her vengeful plans by a miracle? Ie a “returned” Miranda (ie Tara)...?"
Wow, I was thinking much the same thing. When I first heard the spoilers, actually, I was thinking tragedy--how could you not? Tara could certainly be a Desdemona or Ophelia, as others have pointed out...though the first thing I flashed on was King Lear, Lear's incalculable rage and grief when he discovers Cordelia dead. KL has always struck me as the absolute bleakest of Shakespeare's works, and this is about the bleakest the Buffyverse has ever become.
But then I started thinking about The Tempest...Miranda is my favorite character in all of Shakespeare, and Tara is my favorite character in Buffy, and I have often made a connection between Willow/Prospero and Tara/Miranda. Prospero willingly gives up magick and reconciles himself to his old life not only because of his love for Miranda, but because of Miranda's love for the world, her innate goodness. I very much hoped to see this season's arc play out like this.
Then I started thinking, what if Tara is Ariel? He's a magickal being like Prospero, and not to get too into wacky theories here but I've always felt there was an undercurrent of romantic love in the Prospero/Ariel relationship--a homosexual love that is manifest in W/T. And when Prospero abjures magick and leaves the island, he leaves Ariel behind. Caliban is also left behind, Caliban could be Spike, the man/monster, who is supposedly going to die as well. In this scenario I see Dawn as Miranda--after all, the world really is new to her.
Obviously I don't like this scenario as much, and I still see Tara as much more a Miranda figure than Dawn, but...I don't know. It's probably all pointless speculation anyway, but then, we know Joss loves his Shakespeare.
Corinthian wrote: "I thought that when you broke Anyanka's amulet it 'reset' the world so that there NEVER was a time when Buffy DIDN'T come to Sunnydale. In order to reach into that specific past means it DID happen after all. Reaching into the past for Anyanka's amulet is one thing (she's been around for 1100 years) but DarkWillow? She existed briefly in the Wishverse but that reality was erased when Giles destroyed Anyanka's amulet. Therefore DarkWillow never existed. UNLESS she existed in a divergent reality that always existed, and Cordelia was shunted there when she made her wish."
Here's how I think of it. The Wishverse is neither a parallel nor a divergent universe. If we imagine time as linear (which it isn't, but we perceive it that way), then we can picture the regular Buffyverse as a line on a page. When Cordelia's wish is granted, it distorts that line, pushing it off-track, as it were. When the wish is ended, the timeline reverts to its natural shape. However, the distorted line remains and rejoins the natural line, creating a sort of bubble on the side of it, which contains the alternate events depicted in "The Wish". That's what the pendant does, it creates little bubbleverses of distorted timeline...as long as a wish remains in effect, the distorted timeline continues. If the pendant is destroyed, the timeline reverts to its normal, non-wish-affected shape, but--and this is the key--the bubbles remain. They are not full parallel or divergent realities because they are finite, but they still exist. That explains how VampWillow could be brought into the Buffyverse, and also why that demon guy that Anya cursed showed up in "Hell's Bells", even though the destruction of Anya's pendant should have reversed the wish that made him. It did get reversed, and that guy (what was his name?) led his regular life and died, but the bubblebverse containing his demon self still existed, and he found his way out of it (we know it's possible given "Doppelgängland") to torment Anya in "Hell's Bells".
I will not be happy if the season ends with a wish to make everyone alive again rather than the breaking of a wish that made everybody die, both for the reasons Ari discussed earlier and because I don't like the idea of Tara being alive in a bubbleverse rather than the "real" Buffyverse. It's too fragile.
april wrote: "[the sex scene] makes pretty much all of our w/t dreams come true. in the end, w/t were given the exact same treatment as any other couple on the show, and allowed to show as much as any other couple."
I personally will hold off on whether this makes my W/T dreams come true until I see it. It could be much tamer than we're hoping. And as for the "treated like any other couple" thing, I know you were thinking in terms of sex, but people keep saying that, and I just don't see how they're treating W/T like "any other couple":
Buffy/Angel--Angel still alive (or still undead), Buffy not evil
Buffy/Riley--Riley still alive (and pretty happy), Buffy not evil
Willow/Oz--Oz still alive, Willow not evil, yet
Xander/Cordelia--Cordelia still alive, Xander not evil
Willow/Tara--Tara dead, Willow evil
And as everyone has said, Giles/Jenny is not even in the same universe as W/T, so there's no basis for comparison there.
april further wrote: "it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering. a gay couple on a mainstream, not gay-focused show has NEVER been treated the same as the show's straight couples before, in terms of what they're allowed to show onscreen."
Again I realize you're talking about the sex, but I still don't see how it's the same. They have sex and then immediately afterward Tara dies and Willow goes evil? This is The Lesbian Cliché. All of the homophobes will be gaping at their screens as W/T make love, their neanderthal rage boiling, and then boom, Tara dead, Willow evil. The phobes relax as they realize that divine justice has been meted out. The implications are staggering indeed, but not in a good way. All of the good that W/T have accomplished over the past 2 years could be erased by this one act.
Ari wrote: "I'm still thinking that we are currently caught in a circle of Whedon's Inferno wherein spoiler hos are punished and tortured by being given just enough spoilage to inspire general panic while leaving out the vital information that puts everything in context."
I hope that's the case. But if it is, I guess I don't really understand why our "crime" was so horrible that we deserved this. I keep thinking, we're like kids peeking at the Xmas presents hidden in the closet. And ME is like our parents saying, "If you peek, Santa will not only leave you a lump of coal but he will personally murder your favorite stuffed animal."
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:00 Ari wrote: "Actually, Anya didn't remember what had happened in Cordelia's wishverse. When the pendant was smashed, they cut back to that scene where she granted it but had her in her normal face saying "Done" and looking very confused when nothing was happening. ...I assume she just eventually figured that something must have happened in the other reality to destroy her pendant...."Hmm, yeah. That sorta makes sense. But how would she know that there even was another reality for the pendant to be destroyed in if she didn't remember the wish being granted? And how, in "Doppelgängland", did she know how to find the Wishverse if she had not one clue about it? How did she have any idea who VampWillow was and where she came from? Did she just somehow surmise this all? That's a lot of surmisage.
I'm not convinced I'm right, but I'm not convinced you are either. I think there's enough wiggle room here that, if ME wants Anya to remember a wish-created reality, they can get away with it. They've gotten away with a lot more in the past.
Popje wrote: "I’m still sticking to my theory that this season will end like a Shakespearean Romance...vs. Shakespearean tragedy. ...Willow...She’s like Prospero to me, bent on revenge having all the power. But will she be turned away from her vengeful plans by a miracle? Ie a “returned” Miranda (ie Tara)...?"
Wow, I was thinking much the same thing. When I first heard the spoilers, actually, I was thinking tragedy--how could you not? Tara could certainly be a Desdemona or Ophelia, as others have pointed out...though the first thing I flashed on was King Lear, Lear's incalculable rage and grief when he discovers Cordelia dead. KL has always struck me as the absolute bleakest of Shakespeare's works, and this is about the bleakest the Buffyverse has ever become.
But then I started thinking about The Tempest...Miranda is my favorite character in all of Shakespeare, and Tara is my favorite character in Buffy, and I have often made a connection between Willow/Prospero and Tara/Miranda. Prospero willingly gives up magick and reconciles himself to his old life not only because of his love for Miranda, but because of Miranda's love for the world, her innate goodness. I very much hoped to see this season's arc play out like this.
Then I started thinking, what if Tara is Ariel? He's a magickal being like Prospero, and not to get too into wacky theories here but I've always felt there was an undercurrent of romantic love in the Prospero/Ariel relationship--a homosexual love that is manifest in W/T. And when Prospero abjures magick and leaves the island, he leaves Ariel behind. Caliban is also left behind, Caliban could be Spike, the man/monster, who is supposedly going to die as well. In this scenario I see Dawn as Miranda--after all, the world really is new to her.
Obviously I don't like this scenario as much, and I still see Tara as much more a Miranda figure than Dawn, but...I don't know. It's probably all pointless speculation anyway, but then, we know Joss loves his Shakespeare.
Corinthian wrote: "I thought that when you broke Anyanka's amulet it 'reset' the world so that there NEVER was a time when Buffy DIDN'T come to Sunnydale. In order to reach into that specific past means it DID happen after all. Reaching into the past for Anyanka's amulet is one thing (she's been around for 1100 years) but DarkWillow? She existed briefly in the Wishverse but that reality was erased when Giles destroyed Anyanka's amulet. Therefore DarkWillow never existed. UNLESS she existed in a divergent reality that always existed, and Cordelia was shunted there when she made her wish."
Here's how I think of it. The Wishverse is neither a parallel nor a divergent universe. If we imagine time as linear (which it isn't, but we perceive it that way), then we can picture the regular Buffyverse as a line on a page. When Cordelia's wish is granted, it distorts that line, pushing it off-track, as it were. When the wish is ended, the timeline reverts to its natural shape. However, the distorted line remains and rejoins the natural line, creating a sort of bubble on the side of it, which contains the alternate events depicted in "The Wish". That's what the pendant does, it creates little bubbleverses of distorted timeline...as long as a wish remains in effect, the distorted timeline continues. If the pendant is destroyed, the timeline reverts to its normal, non-wish-affected shape, but--and this is the key--the bubbles remain. They are not full parallel or divergent realities because they are finite, but they still exist. That explains how VampWillow could be brought into the Buffyverse, and also why that demon guy that Anya cursed showed up in "Hell's Bells", even though the destruction of Anya's pendant should have reversed the wish that made him. It did get reversed, and that guy (what was his name?) led his regular life and died, but the bubblebverse containing his demon self still existed, and he found his way out of it (we know it's possible given "Doppelgängland") to torment Anya in "Hell's Bells".
I will not be happy if the season ends with a wish to make everyone alive again rather than the breaking of a wish that made everybody die, both for the reasons Ari discussed earlier and because I don't like the idea of Tara being alive in a bubbleverse rather than the "real" Buffyverse. It's too fragile.
april wrote: "[the sex scene] makes pretty much all of our w/t dreams come true. in the end, w/t were given the exact same treatment as any other couple on the show, and allowed to show as much as any other couple."
I personally will hold off on whether this makes my W/T dreams come true until I see it. It could be much tamer than we're hoping. And as for the "treated like any other couple" thing, I know you were thinking in terms of sex, but people keep saying that, and I just don't see how they're treating W/T like "any other couple":
Buffy/Angel--Angel still alive (or still undead), Buffy not evil
Buffy/Riley--Riley still alive (and pretty happy), Buffy not evil
Willow/Oz--Oz still alive, Willow not evil, yet
Xander/Cordelia--Cordelia still alive, Xander not evil
Willow/Tara--Tara dead, Willow evil
And as everyone has said, Giles/Jenny is not even in the same universe as W/T, so there's no basis for comparison there.
april further wrote: "it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering. a gay couple on a mainstream, not gay-focused show has NEVER been treated the same as the show's straight couples before, in terms of what they're allowed to show onscreen."
Again I realize you're talking about the sex, but I still don't see how it's the same. They have sex and then immediately afterward Tara dies and Willow goes evil? This is The Lesbian Cliché. All of the homophobes will be gaping at their screens as W/T make love, their neanderthal rage boiling, and then boom, Tara dead, Willow evil. The phobes relax as they realize that divine justice has been meted out. The implications are staggering indeed, but not in a good way. All of the good that W/T have accomplished over the past 2 years could be erased by this one act.
Ari wrote: "I'm still thinking that we are currently caught in a circle of Whedon's Inferno wherein spoiler hos are punished and tortured by being given just enough spoilage to inspire general panic while leaving out the vital information that puts everything in context."
I hope that's the case. But if it is, I guess I don't really understand why our "crime" was so horrible that we deserved this. I keep thinking, we're like kids peeking at the Xmas presents hidden in the closet. And ME is like our parents saying, "If you peek, Santa will not only leave you a lump of coal but he will personally murder your favorite stuffed animal."
quote:
Originally posted by Eric tr:
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
LOL. Spoiler deduction at it's finest.
Tricking the poor unsuspecting actor into inadvertently spilling the beans. I like the way you think!
Dazey I have to commend you. It’s not often I will give up 5 to 10 minutes reading a single post and yours always offer good insight.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:11quote:
Originally posted by Eric tr:
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
LOL. Spoiler deduction at it's finest.
Tricking the poor unsuspecting actor into inadvertently spilling the beans. I like the way you think!
Dazey I have to commend you. It’s not often I will give up 5 to 10 minutes reading a single post and yours always offer good insight.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
quote:IP: Loggeddrlloyd11Sassy Eggs quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Northern Exposure did that last decade. Watch your lesbian lover die, it's so fun and original.
Ah yes, there "homage" to "Fried Green Tomatoes"..
Yes, the list of this crap is long and endless
Man, there is a nasty rant from me coming soon..
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:12quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Northern Exposure did that last decade. Watch your lesbian lover die, it's so fun and original.
Ah yes, there "homage" to "Fried Green Tomatoes"..
Yes, the list of this crap is long and endless
Man, there is a nasty rant from me coming soon..
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:13 But finding out if she was still filming wouldn't really tell us if there was a reset: it could be flashbacks.IP: LoggedtheatremouseBlessed Wannabe quote:
Originally posted by Epicurus:Ok so now...
We find out from the script that Tara dies.
do we have script text yumminess on the board? did i miss it? has dsm been here and i somehow didnt notice?...... where is siad script?
------------------
It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:17quote:
Originally posted by Epicurus:Ok so now...
We find out from the script that Tara dies.
do we have script text yumminess on the board? did i miss it? has dsm been here and i somehow didnt notice?...... where is siad script?
------------------
It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
EDITED TO ADD:
The script in question is in reards to AnGelX's spoilers she posted. That's what I was refering to. OH and there is no script bits on this board about the death.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:19 But it could also discount the fact that the guy at BBOvenGuy's location shoot said that it was her last day filming.EDITED TO ADD:
The script in question is in reards to AnGelX's spoilers she posted. That's what I was refering to. OH and there is no script bits on this board about the death.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
IP: LoggedEric trFloating Rose quote:
Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
But finding out if she was still filming wouldn't really tell us if there was a reset: it could be flashbacks.
Yes, you might be right. But my point is that if someone asks her about any additional filming and she says yes, then there is more hope to believe that Tara could return alive. There's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:34quote:
Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
But finding out if she was still filming wouldn't really tell us if there was a reset: it could be flashbacks.
Yes, you might be right. But my point is that if someone asks her about any additional filming and she says yes, then there is more hope to believe that Tara could return alive. There's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?
quote:IP: LoggedTaraWannabeDoll's Eye Crystal IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 19:54 I am with everyone who says that Tara has to be back, however lame the circumstances... because I don't think it will be lame at all. When Buffy died last year they had to make a pretty good story to make her resurrection believable and non-lame, and they did. I have faith they can pull off something even better at the end of this season.IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 20:17 I usually just lurk on this fabulous board, I'm kinda shy and don't post comments that often. But all these events and opinions flying about have prompted me to post something. IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 20:24 But why does it have to be so fast? Can we at least see our gay characters be like everyone else before they resort to the old cliche so fast! I mean for crying out loud, Willow and Tara have never had one steamy scene yet and just a few kisses. They get only 1 scene and then boom, Tara dead and Willow evil. Couldn't this fricken wait until next year if it had to be at all?IP: LoggedWiccagrrlGay Now! I don't care if it's cheesy, I don't care how lame some people may think it is (and I have a feeling it won't be). I just refuse to believe that that's gonna be the punchline to the W/T story. That no matter what, if you're gay, you're gonna end up dead or evil. There *has* to be more to this. If they leave Tara dead, if they show Willow as evil, even if they try and redeem her later, I will not stick around to see what they do next year. For me, they have till the end of the season to clarify what the hell the point of all this is.
IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 21:18 I'm sorry, but yeah, I will consider it to be sending a horribly anti-gay message if they kill Tara and *leave* her dead after they have just shown them making love- and killed IN THEIR BEDROOM no less. Which of course sends Willow over the edge.I don't care if it's cheesy, I don't care how lame some people may think it is (and I have a feeling it won't be). I just refuse to believe that that's gonna be the punchline to the W/T story. That no matter what, if you're gay, you're gonna end up dead or evil. There *has* to be more to this. If they leave Tara dead, if they show Willow as evil, even if they try and redeem her later, I will not stick around to see what they do next year. For me, they have till the end of the season to clarify what the hell the point of all this is.
IP: LoggedKendahl897Cool Monster Fighter IP: Logged
posted March 15, 2002 21:38 I don't see it as an anti-gay message if they kill Tara after she has spent a night making love to Willow then having Willow going off the deep end and seeking revenge on Warren. I guess it's because I tend to believe there will be a reset and I don't consider that to be lame either. Losing Tara in such a way IS the ONLY thing would cost Willow to lose control. I think that what Joss is doing is taking a lesbian-cliche and turning it on it's head. And remember, Willow and Tara are not the only Scoobies who are going to be going through hell if the spoilers turn out to be true. Something is going to have to happen to make things right by seasons end. Otherwise, we'll be left with a show about CLEM.by Eric tr » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:36 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
Eric tr--yes, as a matter of fact, there is. It's on April 27 at Metro Entertainment. Hope this helps.--Sela
Ok, that's perfect then. Here's my idea.
I know that Amber can't discuss anything really about upcoming episodes for fear of the wrath of Joss. She isn't allowed to tell if Tara comes back to life or not.
Another thing we know about Amber is that she just filmed the scene where Willow finds Tara's body and it was supposed to be her last filming of the week (and possibly the season).
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
[This message has been edited by Eric tr (edited March 15, 2002).]
quote:by Starfuct » Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:45 pm
The Greek writing on Tara's back is actually a Sappho poem (Sappho Fragment 1)
entitled, "Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne" The translation is by Peter Saint-André.
Here's the translation:
Deathless Aphrodite on your lavish throne,
Enchantress, daughter of Zeus: I beg you, queen, Do not overpower my soul with heartaches and hard troubles,
But come here, if ever at another time
Having heard my voice you paid me attention
And leaving the golden house of your father
you came to me,
Yoking your horse and chariot: gorgeous swift
Sparrows carried you over the coal-black earth, Thickly whirling their feathers through the midst of heaven's ether.
Swiftly they arrived, and you, O blessed one,
Smiling with your immortal face, you asked for What I suffered, and why again I call you
And what in my maddened soul I desire most
To happen to me: what dearest one shall I now
Persuade to lead you back to her — who, O Sappho,wronged you this time?
For even if she flees, swiftly she will pursue; And if she does not receive my gifts, she will give;
And if she does not love me, swiftly she will love, Even against her will. So come to my aid now, Release me from my grievous cares, fulfill as much
As my heart yearns to be fulfilled: come, be my fellow-fighter.
by Dazey » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Hmm, yeah. That sorta makes sense. But how would she know that there even was another reality for the pendant to be destroyed in if she didn't remember the wish being granted? And how, in "Doppelgängland", did she know how to find the Wishverse if she had not one clue about it? How did she have any idea who VampWillow was and where she came from? Did she just somehow surmise this all? That's a lot of surmisage.
I'm not convinced I'm right, but I'm not convinced you are either. I think there's enough wiggle room here that, if ME wants Anya to remember a wish-created reality, they can get away with it. They've gotten away with a lot more in the past.
Popje wrote: "I’m still sticking to my theory that this season will end like a Shakespearean Romance...vs. Shakespearean tragedy. ...Willow...She’s like Prospero to me, bent on revenge having all the power. But will she be turned away from her vengeful plans by a miracle? Ie a “returned” Miranda (ie Tara)...?"
Wow, I was thinking much the same thing. When I first heard the spoilers, actually, I was thinking tragedy--how could you not? Tara could certainly be a Desdemona or Ophelia, as others have pointed out...though the first thing I flashed on was King Lear, Lear's incalculable rage and grief when he discovers Cordelia dead. KL has always struck me as the absolute bleakest of Shakespeare's works, and this is about the bleakest the Buffyverse has ever become.
But then I started thinking about The Tempest...Miranda is my favorite character in all of Shakespeare, and Tara is my favorite character in Buffy, and I have often made a connection between Willow/Prospero and Tara/Miranda. Prospero willingly gives up magick and reconciles himself to his old life not only because of his love for Miranda, but because of Miranda's love for the world, her innate goodness. I very much hoped to see this season's arc play out like this.
Then I started thinking, what if Tara is Ariel? He's a magickal being like Prospero, and not to get too into wacky theories here but I've always felt there was an undercurrent of romantic love in the Prospero/Ariel relationship--a homosexual love that is manifest in W/T. And when Prospero abjures magick and leaves the island, he leaves Ariel behind. Caliban is also left behind, Caliban could be Spike, the man/monster, who is supposedly going to die as well. In this scenario I see Dawn as Miranda--after all, the world really is new to her.
Obviously I don't like this scenario as much, and I still see Tara as much more a Miranda figure than Dawn, but...I don't know. It's probably all pointless speculation anyway, but then, we know Joss loves his Shakespeare.
Corinthian wrote: "I thought that when you broke Anyanka's amulet it 'reset' the world so that there NEVER was a time when Buffy DIDN'T come to Sunnydale. In order to reach into that specific past means it DID happen after all. Reaching into the past for Anyanka's amulet is one thing (she's been around for 1100 years) but DarkWillow? She existed briefly in the Wishverse but that reality was erased when Giles destroyed Anyanka's amulet. Therefore DarkWillow never existed. UNLESS she existed in a divergent reality that always existed, and Cordelia was shunted there when she made her wish."
Here's how I think of it. The Wishverse is neither a parallel nor a divergent universe. If we imagine time as linear (which it isn't, but we perceive it that way), then we can picture the regular Buffyverse as a line on a page. When Cordelia's wish is granted, it distorts that line, pushing it off-track, as it were. When the wish is ended, the timeline reverts to its natural shape. However, the distorted line remains and rejoins the natural line, creating a sort of bubble on the side of it, which contains the alternate events depicted in "The Wish". That's what the pendant does, it creates little bubbleverses of distorted timeline...as long as a wish remains in effect, the distorted timeline continues. If the pendant is destroyed, the timeline reverts to its normal, non-wish-affected shape, but--and this is the key--the bubbles remain. They are not full parallel or divergent realities because they are finite, but they still exist. That explains how VampWillow could be brought into the Buffyverse, and also why that demon guy that Anya cursed showed up in "Hell's Bells", even though the destruction of Anya's pendant should have reversed the wish that made him. It did get reversed, and that guy (what was his name?) led his regular life and died, but the bubblebverse containing his demon self still existed, and he found his way out of it (we know it's possible given "Doppelgängland") to torment Anya in "Hell's Bells".
I will not be happy if the season ends with a wish to make everyone alive again rather than the breaking of a wish that made everybody die, both for the reasons Ari discussed earlier and because I don't like the idea of Tara being alive in a bubbleverse rather than the "real" Buffyverse. It's too fragile.
april wrote: "[the sex scene] makes pretty much all of our w/t dreams come true. in the end, w/t were given the exact same treatment as any other couple on the show, and allowed to show as much as any other couple."
I personally will hold off on whether this makes my W/T dreams come true until I see it. It could be much tamer than we're hoping. And as for the "treated like any other couple" thing, I know you were thinking in terms of sex, but people keep saying that, and I just don't see how they're treating W/T like "any other couple":
Buffy/Angel--Angel still alive (or still undead), Buffy not evil
Buffy/Riley--Riley still alive (and pretty happy), Buffy not evil
Willow/Oz--Oz still alive, Willow not evil, yet
Xander/Cordelia--Cordelia still alive, Xander not evil
Willow/Tara--Tara dead, Willow evil
And as everyone has said, Giles/Jenny is not even in the same universe as W/T, so there's no basis for comparison there.
april further wrote: "it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering. a gay couple on a mainstream, not gay-focused show has NEVER been treated the same as the show's straight couples before, in terms of what they're allowed to show onscreen."
Again I realize you're talking about the sex, but I still don't see how it's the same. They have sex and then immediately afterward Tara dies and Willow goes evil? This is The Lesbian Cliché. All of the homophobes will be gaping at their screens as W/T make love, their neanderthal rage boiling, and then boom, Tara dead, Willow evil. The phobes relax as they realize that divine justice has been meted out. The implications are staggering indeed, but not in a good way. All of the good that W/T have accomplished over the past 2 years could be erased by this one act.
Ari wrote: "I'm still thinking that we are currently caught in a circle of Whedon's Inferno wherein spoiler hos are punished and tortured by being given just enough spoilage to inspire general panic while leaving out the vital information that puts everything in context."
I hope that's the case. But if it is, I guess I don't really understand why our "crime" was so horrible that we deserved this. I keep thinking, we're like kids peeking at the Xmas presents hidden in the closet. And ME is like our parents saying, "If you peek, Santa will not only leave you a lump of coal but he will personally murder your favorite stuffed animal."
by Epicurus » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:11 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Eric tr:
I was wondering if someone who was going to the convention could ask Amber how long she's been away from filming Buffy. If her answer indicates that she's done some additional filming since this past Monday, then that might be a very good sign.
LOL. Spoiler deduction at it's finest.
Tricking the poor unsuspecting actor into inadvertently spilling the beans. I like the way you think!
Dazey I have to commend you. It’s not often I will give up 5 to 10 minutes reading a single post and yours always offer good insight.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
quote:by drlloyd11 » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:12 pm
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Northern Exposure did that last decade. Watch your lesbian lover die, it's so fun and original.
Ah yes, there "homage" to "Fried Green Tomatoes"..
Yes, the list of this crap is long and endless
Man, there is a nasty rant from me coming soon..
by GiftofAmber » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:13 pm
by theatremouse » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:17 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Epicurus:Ok so now...
We find out from the script that Tara dies.
do we have script text yumminess on the board? did i miss it? has dsm been here and i somehow didnt notice?...... where is siad script?
------------------
It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
by Epicurus » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:19 pm
EDITED TO ADD:
The script in question is in reards to AnGelX's spoilers she posted. That's what I was refering to. OH and there is no script bits on this board about the death.
[This message has been edited by Epicurus (edited March 15, 2002).]
by Eric tr » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:34 pm
quote:
Originally posted by GiftofAmber:
But finding out if she was still filming wouldn't really tell us if there was a reset: it could be flashbacks.
Yes, you might be right. But my point is that if someone asks her about any additional filming and she says yes, then there is more hope to believe that Tara could return alive. There's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?
quote:by TaraWannabe » Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:54 pm
by IrishSnow » Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:17 pm
by kpmuse » Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:24 pm
by Wiccagrrl » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:18 pm
I don't care if it's cheesy, I don't care how lame some people may think it is (and I have a feeling it won't be). I just refuse to believe that that's gonna be the punchline to the W/T story. That no matter what, if you're gay, you're gonna end up dead or evil. There *has* to be more to this. If they leave Tara dead, if they show Willow as evil, even if they try and redeem her later, I will not stick around to see what they do next year. For me, they have till the end of the season to clarify what the hell the point of all this is.
by Kendahl897 » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:38 pm
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