quote:
Originally posted by tommo:
Sounds as though Willow's really going all out. I mean, I can't blame her. But this...this just isn't the Willow I've come to love. This is just horrid.
Horrid is one word to it, which is why, as I sit here, I can’t believe the rumors of impending death. I can’t. Willow using Katina as a prop? This is beyond the pale, outrageous. This has to be a huge smoke screen put up by the powers that be to cover what’s actually going to happen.
I mean honestly, can you really imagine Marty and Joss sitting in a room together working this out? Would Marty ever be able to look her lesbian mother in the eye again if this crap were to air? Would Alyson Hannagan be willing to stick with this show for another season after having her complex, well written character turned into a caricature? Would Amber Benson laugh about the impending Scooby death in the British Buffy magazine if she knew she was going to be killed off in such a humiliating manner?
Sorry. Don’t believe it. Calmer heads, and the beer I just opened, make me think that ME is putting up a smoke screen and placing us in a tizzy so we will be truly surprised when the season unfolds. Unfortunately, they’ve picked a very sensitive, manipulative way to protect the end of their season.
This does make me angry. But all will be forgiven when and if the spoilers prove to be false. Otherwise, I will NEVER watch this show, or any other Joss production. Until more information comes in, I’ll sit, and drink a beer, and let my calmer angel prevail.
Hugs to all,
BM
IP: Logged
Rane
Gay Now!
Posts: 1422
Registered: Sep 2000 | posted March 09, 2002 15:40
ARGH! You know, the more I think about these spoilers the more I think that they are fake. I wouldn’t put it past ME to send out fake sides, scripts or rumors. I’ll just live in denial until proved otherwise. Another thing I have to say is that those spoilers sound so much like *tough love*. How original is that? Tara gets hurt/dies, willow avenges. I mean, ME is just recycling things. It doesn’t make any sense. Buffy used to be so original, the deaths completely shocking, and now they’re going to down the been there done that route. Plus, if willow does go all dark magicky it’s been mentioned before what Sam said. Plus, how far can willow go without the three fold? It just doesn’t make sense for her to go sooooo evil that she torments people and dark pheonixes. I mean, we’ve been there with Angelus too. that is not original. And then there’s the whole anyanka thing. If a wish is made and she is reverted (alternate reality maybe) then tara may die but once anya comes back it’s all good again. Or maybe I’m just really mixed up with the spoilers again. Plus, if tara dies saving someone then she’s not really being played out as a *evil* lesbian cliché that must die. I find it sweet (in the most hurtful way ever) she’s sacrificing herself to save someone else (especially willow if that bedroom scene thing is real). I’d still be pissed though because she’s the only mature one of the bunch. I’ll most probably not watch next season if this does happen. It’d be total chaos. but i wont break down until i see this uncomprihensible death it on the telly. hugs to all the kittens and remember the KB mantra!
IP: Logged |
Willowlicious
Cool Monster Fighter
Posts: 254
Registered: Oct 2001 | posted March 09, 2002 15:40
quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Possibility #2 - It's real, but they take it back.How? Simple. Anya's a vengeance demon. In other words, she's a Walking Reset Button. All someone has to do is say, "I wish this had never happened," and blammo! Everything's better.
I've got a terrible migraine again and I'm, you know, FREAKED OUT, so I'm not feeling terribly analytical, but part of my little subconscious brain is whispering to me that Anya may indeed be an important part of this. They've been talking up that damn pendant of hers since she lost her powers, and, low and behold, it's been waved around a ton this season. It would be kind of lame, but it would make a hell of a lot more sense then what we have right now. BTW, I don't think I'm in denial for trying to reason through this and look at the big picture. It's not Tara's death alone that rings false to me, but the horror that would be visited upon Willow's arc and the spirit of the show. This storyline would invalidate 5 1/2 seasons of beautiful, intricate, funny and meaningful stories in favor of abject cruelty. Joss has hammered home that this season is about growing up. Well, I'm sure that the fan community Joss has claimed to love and want to nurture will be pleased to know that growing up and trying to do the right thing equals utter devastation and soul-crushing defeat. This story says that Evil conquers Good despite your best efforts. It says life and love are pointless. (And, gee, what a great year for that message with all that is going on in the world ) But see, I don't think Joss or Marti believe that. The people that say that this is what the show has always been about have clearly been watching a different show than I have. BtVS has always been hopeful even in its darkest moments. Something is wrong here. And, oh my god, I just read about Willow using Katrina to taunt Warren. That is just... Something is wrong. I mean, my god, even the alternate universe that Vamp Willow came from is not that bad. This must be some sort of "worst case scenario" for all the characters or something, followed by a reversal. I keep thinking of what Giles said to Anyanka before he crushed her pendant, "...because it has to be better than this." It has to be better than this. It has to. My intuition has been pretty good to me this year on a number of subjects. Right now my intuition is telling me, "This isn't the whole story and keep your eyes on that ex-demon!" Amy [This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 09, 2002).] IP: Logged |
Sela
Doll's Eye Crystal
Posts: 56
Registered: Jan 2002 | posted March 09, 2002 15:41
I am utterly bereft. I can't really form words right now. And I think I'm close to crying now. I want to believe it's not true, but now, just thinking about watching Buffy when it seems clear Tara's gonna die...well, it just seems like I'd be faking interest. Why do they have to give us a make up scene? Why do they have to show us what could have been and then just rip it away from us? I feel really betrayed. Yeah, logically, it's just a tv show, but it's a tv show that has had an impact on me. I'm now working my way up to extreme anger. What does DSM say? Have we heard anything on that end yet? I've been trying to find out about Amber and I haven't been able to find anything. This is a dark day...a dark day indeed. I didn't want anyone to die. I didn't really think it was necessary. That plot device is so old and it's been recycled too many times on this show. Tara has so much potential. She's a great character with a lot of depth and she has what every other character lacks--compassion, tenderness, and the capacity to accept and understand others. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I am so absolutely pissed right now. I am really, really, truly pissed off. --Sela IP: Logged |
Junkyard Dog
Blessed Wannabe
Posts: 25
Registered: Jan 2002 | posted March 09, 2002 15:42
The hell of it is, this season has been handled so ham-fistedly (at least compared to earlier seasons), that it's not at all difficult to believe this shit. Some of it might even be compelling to watch, albeit in an ugly, horrifying way (the idea of Willow using Katrina to torture Warren with, for example), but it's still too damned depressing. Even if they use some magic reset button at the end of the season (whether through vengeance demon magic or some other gimmick) to redo everything, and start things afresh, they've still wasted practically the entire season on this dank, dreary crap. Ye Gods!IP: Logged |
Epicurus
Cool Monster Fighter
Posts: 184
Registered: Jul 2001 | posted March 09, 2002 15:44
Take away the kissing, the hand holding, the scenes of them sharing a bed. Never give me the semi-nekkid snuggles. I would rather have Tara alive and in a "never touch Willow onscreen" relationship then to have the upcoming sweet scenes of coffee dates and that bedroom/kiss scene just have Tara die in the end. Is it just me or is 18 and 19 going to be unbearable to watch because we know the events in 20?
I don't think I will make it though the next episodes without crying. And to think, this is still 2 months away.IP: Logged |
Kendahl897
Doll's Eye Crystal
Posts: 116
Registered: Jan 2002 | posted March 09, 2002 15:48
Has this episode even started filming yet? Cause if it hasn't, then there is a good chance that it could be fake. Also, you know, Anya wouldn't have to be the one to reverse whatever happens. It could be Dawn wishing that it had never happened and Halfrek granting her wish..........IP: Logged |
quote:IP: LoggedRaneGay Now!
Posts: 1422
Registered: Sep 2000 posted March 09, 2002 15:40
ARGH! You know, the more I think about these spoilers the more I think that they are fake. I wouldn’t put it past ME to send out fake sides, scripts or rumors. I’ll just live in denial until proved otherwise. Another thing I have to say is that those spoilers sound so much like *tough love*. How original is that? Tara gets hurt/dies, willow avenges. I mean, ME is just recycling things. It doesn’t make any sense. Buffy used to be so original, the deaths completely shocking, and now they’re going to down the been there done that route. Plus, if willow does go all dark magicky it’s been mentioned before what Sam said. Plus, how far can willow go without the three fold? It just doesn’t make sense for her to go sooooo evil that she torments people and dark pheonixes. I mean, we’ve been there with Angelus too. that is not original.
And then there’s the whole anyanka thing. If a wish is made and she is reverted (alternate reality maybe) then tara may die but once anya comes back it’s all good again. Or maybe I’m just really mixed up with the spoilers again.
Plus, if tara dies saving someone then she’s not really being played out as a *evil* lesbian cliché that must die. I find it sweet (in the most hurtful way ever) she’s sacrificing herself to save someone else (especially willow if that bedroom scene thing is real). I’d still be pissed though because she’s the only mature one of the bunch. I’ll most probably not watch next season if this does happen. It’d be total chaos. but i wont break down until i see this uncomprihensible death it on the telly.
hugs to all the kittens and remember the KB mantra!
IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:40 ARGH! You know, the more I think about these spoilers the more I think that they are fake. I wouldn’t put it past ME to send out fake sides, scripts or rumors. I’ll just live in denial until proved otherwise. Another thing I have to say is that those spoilers sound so much like *tough love*. How original is that? Tara gets hurt/dies, willow avenges. I mean, ME is just recycling things. It doesn’t make any sense. Buffy used to be so original, the deaths completely shocking, and now they’re going to down the been there done that route. Plus, if willow does go all dark magicky it’s been mentioned before what Sam said. Plus, how far can willow go without the three fold? It just doesn’t make sense for her to go sooooo evil that she torments people and dark pheonixes. I mean, we’ve been there with Angelus too. that is not original.
And then there’s the whole anyanka thing. If a wish is made and she is reverted (alternate reality maybe) then tara may die but once anya comes back it’s all good again. Or maybe I’m just really mixed up with the spoilers again.
Plus, if tara dies saving someone then she’s not really being played out as a *evil* lesbian cliché that must die. I find it sweet (in the most hurtful way ever) she’s sacrificing herself to save someone else (especially willow if that bedroom scene thing is real). I’d still be pissed though because she’s the only mature one of the bunch. I’ll most probably not watch next season if this does happen. It’d be total chaos. but i wont break down until i see this uncomprihensible death it on the telly.
hugs to all the kittens and remember the KB mantra!
IP: LoggedWillowliciousCool Monster Fighter
Posts: 254
Registered: Oct 2001 posted March 09, 2002 15:40
quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Possibility #2 - It's real, but they take it back.How? Simple. Anya's a vengeance demon. In other words, she's a Walking Reset Button. All someone has to do is say, "I wish this had never happened," and blammo! Everything's better.
I've got a terrible migraine again and I'm, you know, FREAKED OUT, so I'm not feeling terribly analytical, but part of my little subconscious brain is whispering to me that Anya may indeed be an important part of this. They've been talking up that damn pendant of hers since she lost her powers, and, low and behold, it's been waved around a ton this season. It would be kind of lame, but it would make a hell of a lot more sense then what we have right now.
BTW, I don't think I'm in denial for trying to reason through this and look at the big picture. It's not Tara's death alone that rings false to me, but the horror that would be visited upon Willow's arc and the spirit of the show. This storyline would invalidate 5 1/2 seasons of beautiful, intricate, funny and meaningful stories in favor of abject cruelty. Joss has hammered home that this season is about growing up. Well, I'm sure that the fan community Joss has claimed to love and want to nurture will be pleased to know that growing up and trying to do the right thing equals utter devastation and soul-crushing defeat. This story says that Evil conquers Good despite your best efforts. It says life and love are pointless. (And, gee, what a great year for that message with all that is going on in the world )
But see, I don't think Joss or Marti believe that. The people that say that this is what the show has always been about have clearly been watching a different show than I have. BtVS has always been hopeful even in its darkest moments. Something is wrong here.
And, oh my god, I just read about Willow using Katrina to taunt Warren. That is just...
Something is wrong. I mean, my god, even the alternate universe that Vamp Willow came from is not that bad. This must be some sort of "worst case scenario" for all the characters or something, followed by a reversal. I keep thinking of what Giles said to Anyanka before he crushed her pendant, "...because it has to be better than this."
It has to be better than this. It has to. My intuition has been pretty good to me this year on a number of subjects. Right now my intuition is telling me, "This isn't the whole story and keep your eyes on that ex-demon!"
Amy
[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 09, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:40 quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Possibility #2 - It's real, but they take it back.How? Simple. Anya's a vengeance demon. In other words, she's a Walking Reset Button. All someone has to do is say, "I wish this had never happened," and blammo! Everything's better.
I've got a terrible migraine again and I'm, you know, FREAKED OUT, so I'm not feeling terribly analytical, but part of my little subconscious brain is whispering to me that Anya may indeed be an important part of this. They've been talking up that damn pendant of hers since she lost her powers, and, low and behold, it's been waved around a ton this season. It would be kind of lame, but it would make a hell of a lot more sense then what we have right now.
BTW, I don't think I'm in denial for trying to reason through this and look at the big picture. It's not Tara's death alone that rings false to me, but the horror that would be visited upon Willow's arc and the spirit of the show. This storyline would invalidate 5 1/2 seasons of beautiful, intricate, funny and meaningful stories in favor of abject cruelty. Joss has hammered home that this season is about growing up. Well, I'm sure that the fan community Joss has claimed to love and want to nurture will be pleased to know that growing up and trying to do the right thing equals utter devastation and soul-crushing defeat. This story says that Evil conquers Good despite your best efforts. It says life and love are pointless. (And, gee, what a great year for that message with all that is going on in the world )
But see, I don't think Joss or Marti believe that. The people that say that this is what the show has always been about have clearly been watching a different show than I have. BtVS has always been hopeful even in its darkest moments. Something is wrong here.
And, oh my god, I just read about Willow using Katrina to taunt Warren. That is just...
Something is wrong. I mean, my god, even the alternate universe that Vamp Willow came from is not that bad. This must be some sort of "worst case scenario" for all the characters or something, followed by a reversal. I keep thinking of what Giles said to Anyanka before he crushed her pendant, "...because it has to be better than this."
It has to be better than this. It has to. My intuition has been pretty good to me this year on a number of subjects. Right now my intuition is telling me, "This isn't the whole story and keep your eyes on that ex-demon!"
Amy
[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 09, 2002).]
quote:IP: LoggedSelaDoll's Eye Crystal
Posts: 56
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 09, 2002 15:41
I am utterly bereft. I can't really form words right now. And I think I'm close to crying now. I want to believe it's not true, but now, just thinking about watching Buffy when it seems clear Tara's gonna die...well, it just seems like I'd be faking interest. Why do they have to give us a make up scene? Why do they have to show us what could have been and then just rip it away from us? I feel really betrayed. Yeah, logically, it's just a tv show, but it's a tv show that has had an impact on me. I'm now working my way up to extreme anger. What does DSM say? Have we heard anything on that end yet? I've been trying to find out about Amber and I haven't been able to find anything. This is a dark day...a dark day indeed. I didn't want anyone to die. I didn't really think it was necessary. That plot device is so old and it's been recycled too many times on this show. Tara has so much potential. She's a great character with a lot of depth and she has what every other character lacks--compassion, tenderness, and the capacity to accept and understand others. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I am so absolutely pissed right now. I am really, really, truly pissed off.
--Sela
IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:41 I am utterly bereft. I can't really form words right now. And I think I'm close to crying now. I want to believe it's not true, but now, just thinking about watching Buffy when it seems clear Tara's gonna die...well, it just seems like I'd be faking interest. Why do they have to give us a make up scene? Why do they have to show us what could have been and then just rip it away from us? I feel really betrayed. Yeah, logically, it's just a tv show, but it's a tv show that has had an impact on me. I'm now working my way up to extreme anger. What does DSM say? Have we heard anything on that end yet? I've been trying to find out about Amber and I haven't been able to find anything. This is a dark day...a dark day indeed. I didn't want anyone to die. I didn't really think it was necessary. That plot device is so old and it's been recycled too many times on this show. Tara has so much potential. She's a great character with a lot of depth and she has what every other character lacks--compassion, tenderness, and the capacity to accept and understand others. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I am so absolutely pissed right now. I am really, really, truly pissed off.
--Sela
IP: LoggedJunkyard DogBlessed Wannabe
Posts: 25
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 09, 2002 15:42
The hell of it is, this season has been handled so ham-fistedly (at least compared to earlier seasons), that it's not at all difficult to believe this shit. Some of it might even be compelling to watch, albeit in an ugly, horrifying way (the idea of Willow using Katrina to torture Warren with, for example), but it's still too damned depressing. Even if they use some magic reset button at the end of the season (whether through vengeance demon magic or some other gimmick) to redo everything, and start things afresh, they've still wasted practically the entire season on this dank, dreary crap. Ye Gods!IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:42 The hell of it is, this season has been handled so ham-fistedly (at least compared to earlier seasons), that it's not at all difficult to believe this shit. Some of it might even be compelling to watch, albeit in an ugly, horrifying way (the idea of Willow using Katrina to torture Warren with, for example), but it's still too damned depressing. Even if they use some magic reset button at the end of the season (whether through vengeance demon magic or some other gimmick) to redo everything, and start things afresh, they've still wasted practically the entire season on this dank, dreary crap. Ye Gods!IP: LoggedEpicurusCool Monster Fighter
Posts: 184
Registered: Jul 2001 posted March 09, 2002 15:44
Take away the kissing, the hand holding, the scenes of them sharing a bed. Never give me the semi-nekkid snuggles. I would rather have Tara alive and in a "never touch Willow onscreen" relationship then to have the upcoming sweet scenes of coffee dates and that bedroom/kiss scene just have Tara die in the end. Is it just me or is 18 and 19 going to be unbearable to watch because we know the events in 20?
I don't think I will make it though the next episodes without crying. And to think, this is still 2 months away.IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:44 Take away the kissing, the hand holding, the scenes of them sharing a bed. Never give me the semi-nekkid snuggles. I would rather have Tara alive and in a "never touch Willow onscreen" relationship then to have the upcoming sweet scenes of coffee dates and that bedroom/kiss scene just have Tara die in the end. Is it just me or is 18 and 19 going to be unbearable to watch because we know the events in 20?
I don't think I will make it though the next episodes without crying. And to think, this is still 2 months away.IP: LoggedKendahl897Doll's Eye Crystal
Posts: 116
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 09, 2002 15:48
Has this episode even started filming yet? Cause if it hasn't, then there is a good chance that it could be fake. Also, you know, Anya wouldn't have to be the one to reverse whatever happens. It could be Dawn wishing that it had never happened and Halfrek granting her wish..........IP: Logged
posted March 09, 2002 15:48 Has this episode even started filming yet? Cause if it hasn't, then there is a good chance that it could be fake. Also, you know, Anya wouldn't have to be the one to reverse whatever happens. It could be Dawn wishing that it had never happened and Halfrek granting her wish..........
