When will Rack rear his ugly head again?

[schmuty]

The Nerds of Doom may be Buffy's big bad but Rack and Amy are Willow's. Does anyone out there really believe we've seen the last of them? If not, when do you see them making their evil return?

[Wiccagrrl]

I believe we'll see Amy again- maybe even joining forces with the Troika. But I tend to think we've seen the last of Rack (thank goodness.) Not based on spoilers, just speculation.

[Blixxt]

According to Angel X's General Season 6 Spoilers, Rack is not likely to return. The actress who plays Amy has at least one episode left in her contract, however, so she's almost certain to appear again this season.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited March 06, 2002).]

[Under Her Spell]

Did anybody else notice (and was slightly annoyed) that Rack was played by the same actor who played Zachary Crelik in 'Helpless'? Not that he's a bad actor, just it was a bit silly having the same guy!

[Dream]

Hey, at least he wasn't used as much as some actors who were "recycled" on "Xena"... Could've been worse...

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Reish's little corner of insanity
Come on in... I dare you...

[Sundowner]

He played one of my fave characters on China Beach. Just as an aside.

I'd like to see Rack again in one of the eps. Everything can be accomplished without him, but I thought the character was a cool addition for those shows.

[Dazey]

Why does everyone think he'll be back? He impressed me as the very definition of a one-ep baddie. Amy, OTOH, we need to and will see again. And while I can't imagine it will actually happen, my dream is for Tara to magickally kick Amy's skanky lopsided ass right out of Sunnydale.

[tommo]

It seems that people really have it in for Amy. I mean, yes, she did lead Willow down the wrong path and I suppose she's fundamentally flawed in some sense. But I don't blame her wholeheartedly for what's happened. I suppose I'm just a tad surprised at the blatant bashing she's getting.

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No metaphors...just fucking.

[Righteous Babe]

I didn't totally dislike Amy until the episode called Doublemeat Palace I think it was.

[Dazey]

I for one don't mean to "bash" Amy. My post was intended humorously. However, regardless of how much she is to blame for anything, she clearly has no ethics and no real concern for Willow. Sorry if I'm not inclined to be sympathetic.

[Wiccagrrl]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
It seems that people really have it in for Amy. I mean, yes, she did lead Willow down the wrong path and I suppose she's fundamentally flawed in some sense. But I don't blame her wholeheartedly for what's happened. I suppose I'm just a tad surprised at the blatant bashing she's getting.

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I used to really like Amy, but after DP and the spell she put on Willow (which was intended to stop Willow from continuing to try to get clean and get a bit of payback for being a rat for three years) I have a hard time liking the character of feeling much sympathy. And yeah, I wouldn't mind a Tara/Amy showdown.

quote:

[eekiboo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sundowner:
He played one of my fave characters on China Beach. Just as an aside.

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oh yeah, i used to watch China Beach religiously too and remember him there. i wouldn't mind to see him back. writers have used Rack already in their fanfics, w/c is cool. who knows he might be back next season. pax

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Willow and Tara
Willow and Tara's Roomquote:

[Mini-ALF]

I think we've seen the last of Rack also. It should be interesting when Amy shows up again...I could see Tara kicking her butt.

Michelle

[Willowlicious]

Yeah, I had much more sympathy for Amy before she cast that spell on Willow pretty much out of spite. I guess I've never understood how it's Willow's fault that Amy was a rat for three years. Willow didn't turn her into a rat. Willow had no idea Amy was going to do that spell and, obviously, had no idea how to reverse it. If you think about it, Will made Amy her literal "pet" project and delved deeper into the study of magick to try to figure out how to bring her back. She took care of her. She didn't have to.

As for Rack, I doubt we'll see him again.

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"Pronouns. I'd change all the pronouns in our old songs from male to female. I feel like I lied to people."
Wendy Melvoin to me when asked what she would change about the lengthy and colorful career she has shared with music partner and lover, Lisa Coleman. March 2000.

[Wiccagrrl]

I agree, I don't think it was Willow's fault, either. Amy's spell backfired. But clearly, Amy blames Willow to some extent.

[Rosenberg]

I think we've seen the last of Rack, but it's amazing how much mileage he's gotten out of his one appearance. He's become sort of a cult figure in the fanfics.

[tommo]

Honestly, I feel that Amy is caught up in a really horrid situation, resenting Willow for not turning her into a human from a rat sooner. And she used this as a guilt trip type observation a couple of times.

I'm not trying to defend her behaviour or her actions. All I'm saying is that with Amy, you have to remember that she's lost 3 years of her life that she'll never be able to get back. And right now she's kind of blaming Willow, whilst at the same time, using Willow as her prop to society. So the one person who is her link is also the person she resents. The person she has fun with has now turned away and doesn't want to see her anymore. Whilst I'm one hundred per cent behind Willow on this, I can't help feeling like Amy's just stuck out there. Flailing against society and the way of life that she doesn't really recognise anymore.

I suppose me empathising with Amy is unpopular. But I'm just trying to see the flip side. Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to kick Amy's arse for what she did. Doesn't mean that I wasn't hating every moment Amy led Willow into dark magic. But Amy has a problem too, and she doesn't have the support group that Willow does. And what's more, she doesn't have the love of a great woman either. And that makes all the difference.

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No metaphors...just fucking.

[Eyes Without A Face]

It's a good thing that she was a magical rat. If she would have aged as a normal rat for 3 years before being changed back into human form, she would be quite the hag now.

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Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

[Willowlicious]

Oh, I agree Ruth. Amy has had a rough life and is in a very sad situation. Willow has everything Amy doesn't: the support of her friends, "the love of a great woman," and the strength and willpower to free herself of her destructive ways. Hell, she even got to go to the prom! Amy, on the other hand, is lost and alone. I do feel sorry for her. But saving her is like trying to save a panicked drowning victim--she'll take you down with her. It's sad. It's unfair. But what can you do? Willow took care of her and offered her friendship. It's sad Amy chose to turn on her. She's on her own now.

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"Pronouns. I'd change all the pronouns in our old songs from male to female. I feel like I lied to people."
Wendy Melvoin to me when asked what she would change about the lengthy and colorful career she has shared with music partner and lover, Lisa Coleman. March 2000.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 06, 2002).]

[Under Her Spell]

I agree with tommo - Amy isn't a nice girl, for sure, but she's not evil, or a sort of big bad; she was corrupted by magic, just like Willow. Remember she used to be Willow's real friend once way back when, pre-Buffy.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the parents! Amy's mum was the person who turned her towards magic; from the very first she saw that dark magic was a way to get what you wanted.

It's dark magic which is the big evil here, not an individual like Amy - you can't really blame her for Willow's fall, anymore than other people elsewhere are blaming Tara for it. I'm not saying I like her, but Amy's no Rack!

[shellybean]

I noticed that Rack was played by the same actor as Kralik. The Judge and Luke from Welcome to the Hellmouth/the Harvest were played by the same guy. And the crazy curds and whey guy that confronted Dawn in front of the magic shop also played a doctor on Angel. Its funny because every day I see people on tv and in movie's that were on Buffy. I always point them out and name what episode they were in and it bugs the hell out of my friends and my sister. Am I that obsessed?

[bubbles23]

hmm... I kinda thought Rack would be back. But I like the idea of not this season... As for Amy I see how one could sympathise with her but we're able to see that she's not able to see. If that makes sense. It's easier for her to blame willow. But maybe her ending will result in her no longer blaming willow and taking so resposibility for her spell going !oops! **poof** a rat!
as for the recycling of the actor who played rack, didn't like so much. When it happened on xena it was distracting but didn't bother me nearly as much. Why this is I'm not quite sure but I'm sure you lovely kitties will help me pin point it.

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you walk through my walls like a a ghost on tv you penetrate me
and my little pink heart is on its little brown raft floating out to see
what can i say but i'm wired this way and you're wired to me
and what can i do but wallow in you unintentionally
what kind of paradise am i looking for
i've got everything i want still i want more

[Wiccagrrl]

quote:

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It's dark magic which is the big evil here, not an individual like Amy - you can't really blame her for Willow's fall, anymore than other people elsewhere are blaming Tara for it. I'm not saying I like her, but Amy's no Rack!

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I certainly don't blame Amy for Willow's getting addicted in the first place. I didn't even hate her in Smashed or Wrecked. I do have a major problem with the mickey Amy gave Willow in DP, and the fact that she seemed to really blame Willow for the years she lost. Any maybe that's not fair, and I should be more compassionate. But at that point it felt like she was just out to cause Willow pain, and I have a hard time forgiving that.
quote:

[tommo]

quote:

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Originally posted by bubbles23:
As for Amy I see how one could sympathise with her but we're able to see that she's not able to see.

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No, I said empathise. That's different entirely. I just think the girl's had a shitty life so far. Stands to reason that she'd want to reclaim some power, somewhere, sometime.

Anyway, this isn't a discussion about Amy. Sorry.

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No metaphors...just fucking.quote:

[Willowlicious]

Okay, I have a question regarding Rack. It will most likely never come up in the show, so this is really just a pointless excercise in character psycho-analysis. When Willow and Tara get back together, what, if anything, do you think Willow will tell Tara about Rack? I don't necessarily mean right away. But in an open, secret-free relationship, stories eventually get told while laying side-by-side in the dead of night. I mean, I already assume Tara knows Willow saw a dark magick "dealer," but I doubt she's told anyone the most sordid of the details. "Wrecked" put a definite icky sexual subtext to Rack's exploration of Willow and, given Will's tearful shower and hollow Tara-hugging the morning after, she was icked out by it. Do you think Willow will ever talk about that with Tara in all its distasteful, frightening detail, or do you think she'll file some details of Rack's magickal feel-up under "Things Better Left Unsaid?"

I haven't really thought about it in detail yet. The question just popped in my head, so I thought I'd see what others think.

EDITED: My own opinion now that I've thought about it is that I think she'll tell Tara everything, but not right away. If I was in that position, I know I'd tell my girlfriend everything...when the time was right. After a break-up, trust would have to build up on both sides a bit before I'd want to admit that at my worst moment I was like a crack whore on my knees. It's not something that comes up easily. Besides hurting Tara and Dawn and all the people she loved, I would imagine that Willow is least proud of her moment with Rack. Not just because of the magick, but because of what she was willing to part with at that moment to get it.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 07, 2002).]

[Divine Princess Fuchsia]

I actually really like Amy's character, but in terms of S6, i'm going on spoilers, transcripts and the snippets I've seen, as I am a poor British student without cable I see her as more misguided than evil - we've had some big bads, like the Mayor and Glory, and some who were basically OK, if a tad unstable, but went to the dark side, like Amy and Maggie Walsh. Don't forget, Amy had to deal with her mother's dark magic and general craziness, that would throw anyone off course. Maybe she used it as a coping mechanism, or maybe she's subconsciously trying to show her mother that she's more powerful than her, even after all her mother put her through. Oh, and Elizabeth Anne Allen is pretty damn cute, lol. Anyway, that's my Sophomore Level Pyschology rant over for the day

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''We HAVE to kill some cooler people'' - Sunday the cute vampire

''Those of you who fall into my good graces will come to know me as Maggie. Those of you who don't will know me by the name my T.A's use and think I don't know about: The Evil Bitch Monster of Death''. - Maggie Walsh

[Scout]

Re: Amy - I don't think Amy actually blames Willow for being a rat for so long. I think Amy was using Willow's guilt to manipulate her into staying with the magick, just like Amy used Willow's insecurities to manipulate her into going to the club in "Smashed."

The writers have not tried to make Amy a sympathetic character. After she was de-ratted, the S6 viewers were not given a rehash of her troubled and twisted upbringing. All we've really seen of Amy is that she's selfish, weak, and manipulative. Amy won't find redemption because she's not looking for it. Her sole purpose on the show is to cause Willow trouble and that leads me to believe that of all the characters this season, Amy is the least likely to survive beyond S6.

Re: Rack - As for Willow telling Tara about Rack, I think she would want to eventually share all of that with Tara. Of course we won't get a chance to see it, but I could see the girls spending time getting caught up on what happened to them while they were apart - Tara sharing what she did while she was on her own for so long and Willow filling Tara in on how bad it got before she saw the light. I think that conversation would be an important step toward a more open and honest relationship.

[Dazey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Under Her Spell:
Amy - you can't really blame her for Willow's fall, anymore than other people elsewhere are blaming Tara for it.

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Blaming Tara? That's fucking insane. And just the kind of thing I do not need or want to hear. Please keep what goes on at other boards off of this one. Thank you.quote:

[tommo]

Dazey, I think what Under Her Spell is trying to say is that blame is a pretty subjective issue. Naturally, blaming Tara for Willow's fall is fucking insane, I agree, but you know, it just makes me laugh at what a deep misunderstanding people have of the relationships at work here. I guess that's why we're privileged to post at the kitten, where there's no confusion about blame or any of these issues. Heh.

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No metaphors...just fucking.

[Dazey]

Yes, I understand that blame can be a subjective issue. Not my point. My point was, please don't discuss the stupidity that goes on at other boards on this board. It's like spoilers outside the spoiler thread. Many people do not want to hear even the tiniest teeniest spoiler, and we try to respect that. I don't want to hear the tiniest teeniest bit of Tara-bashing, and I shouldn't have to, it's against board policy.

I realize that slip-ups are inevitable and I'm not yelling. Just trying to provide a gentle reminder.

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"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."