Discussion – S6E12 – "Doublemeat Palace"

[Kilopto]

I liked this ep. More of set up for later stuff...But still I enjoyed it. And I thought Aly's acting was great, the shaky intensity of it all was very real.

Anyway...one quick question, what did the trailer for next week's ep look like? My station doesn't show them so...I was just wondering what it looked like, was it cool or whatever. Is it the Buffy birthday party one?

Tanks,
Ashley

[Pixie]

I concur with all the posters who have said this was not the best ep of the season. It felt very X-Files-monster of the week to me. It seemed like the director was trying to give us the monotonous, slowed-down feel of working in fast(!) food, but I think it backfired - just made the ep feel slooow. I was a little bored in any scene that was just Buffy at work, without any other Scooby. I thought SMG did a good job, particularly in that 1st conversation with Spike. Anya's demon friend was funny, and Aly rocked! Great job showing Willow's conflicted , somewhat desparate recovery. Amy is such a bitca, and go Willow for standing up to her. I think I need to go back and reread the last chapter or so of Lisa of Nine's fic on the pens board to see Amy get her comeuppance. Okay, and during the "It's people meat" scene, was I the only one sitting on my couch singing, "It's priest. Have a little priest. Is it any good? Sir, it's too good, at least."? I almost expected the little old lady demon-monster to do some Mrs. Lovett-type cavorting!

Can't wait til next week - Good angst, Scooby character development and Tara!!!

[april]

i'm going to risk social ostracism by not going with the crowd and saying that i thoroughly enjoyed this ep! i mean no, it wasn't my favorite ep of all time or anything, but it had a lot of good moments.

i really liked anya's scenes in the ep a lot. she did a great job delivering her humorous lines, and seemed much more believable and real than she often does. espenson wrote her character very well.

i also enjoyed seeing buffy act much more lighthearted and like her old self in this ep. her witty quips, her detective work to uncover the ep's big bad, and most of all, caring enough about her life to hate a crappy job - she's finally starting to value her life again. however, i was SO expecting her to ask for a cash settlement for what happened to her at doublemeat palace (unofficially based, of course, on her knowledge of the "secret ingredient"), rather than just trying to get her crappy job back. c'mon buffy - have some ambition! and some self-respect!

and how about a huge WOO HOO for willow, who not only continues to win her battle with addiction and dissed Amy the Loser Witch, but saved buffy from scary wig lady without resorting to magic!!! we haven't seen willow kick this much ass without magic since, well, ever! hopefully she'll be realizing soon that even without her magic, she's a much more confident, powerful, kick-ass person now than she was a few years ago.

other thoughts...

dawn really needs something to do. in a major way. anything!

the scene where xander says something like "it's not a demon; it's just life" was WAY too heavy handed. hello, hasn't this been the theme of the show for 6 seasons now? and haven't they avoided being this lame and blatant about it for five and a half years? if people haven't gotten it by now, there's just no hope for them.

but the most important thing, of course, is TARA in the preview!!! man, it's been WAY too long. we'd better get some serious w/t goodness next week!

[lurker1.0]

Grr.. Argh..

Sometimes I can't handle being Canadian. I wanna see the eppy It sounds like it's going back to the good non-campy campiness of earlier seasons. MOTW stuff and all that.

Actually I mostly just wanna see the preview for next week. All this talk of possible W/T goodness in the promo is getting me all giddy.

[Warduke]

lurker, sometimes it's better to be Canadian...coughmondaynightbuffycough

[mucifer]

i enjoyed this episode. it's probably just that im a vegetarian and enjoyed the gross out parts. to me fast food like that should be disturbing. i really appreciated jane having the vegetable matter sprinkled with meat powder a true reference to mcdonald's advertisements that they only use veggie oil on their fries when it turns out they sprinkle it with beef powder btw there is a huge law suit going on about that.

yes it's by far not the best buffy episode but it was silly and depressing at the same time which i do love about the show. not to mention the ending was a total downer with her stuck working at that horrible place. i was expecting a tidy little ending with buffy leaving. i thought the episode had enough twists and turns to keep me going.

the weird passive agressive amy behavior i thought was very interesting and fit in well with the drama. she sure does have reasons to be angry and she cant deal with them in a mature way. she could have verbally torn willow apart and really hurt her badly and willow did deserve it for not helping amy earlier. but, amy found willow's weakness and really messed with her bad and it was intentional.

[lurking lisa]

*delurking for a short time*

Did anyone else notice in the preview for next week..That Buffy accidentely kills Amy???? I was surprised that no one else noticed this.....

[Sela]

I really liked this episode too. It's not "The Body," or "Hush," but it has its merits. For the first time since OMWF, we get to see Anya's fears coming out. Before this ep, Anya was all about Xander. She absorbed herself in him. Then her old buddy Halfrek comes into the picture and starts asking all of these questions, which of course only makes Anya question herself and her relationship. It was perfect. You know there's that moment in every relationship when you kinda get defensive about yourself, where you ask, "Why do I have to make all the sacrifices," or "Why do I have to be the one to change?" Anya's never questioned people's judgements of her. She accepts the criticism with a grain of salt and tries to improve her demeanor. But what if it's not what she wants? What if she just likes herself as she is? We see that coming out. Finally, Anya's being shown as something other than Xander's ball and chain .

And Buffy's on her way to reclaiming some semblance of normalcy. She's still quite, quite lost and maybe a little confused, but at least she's trying. The same with Willow. Aly was really great in this episode. Addiction is tough, in whatever form it presents itself. Willow had the shakes, and she really didn't want the gift Amy gave her. We see how hard it is for her to reject the magic. It's painful to watch. And ultimately, she opts to be "the plain ol' Willow" to save the day. At the end of the ep, when Amy shows up, it's great to see the flurry of emotions that pass through Willow's face. There's self-doubt, temptation, and ultimately resolve. But as others have pointed out, Amy's not cowering anytime soon.

Though the plot line itself was of the monster-of-the-week variety, it managed to further the season arc, which is what matters, after all. And it was a good laugh, especially for people who've worked in that particular industry.

Oh, and I don't think it's terribly unreasonable that all Buffy would want in exchange for keeping quiet is a job. She's the slayer. She's all about the whole "secret" thing, and ultimately, she's out to protect (in this case, Dawn), not to blackmail, because as Faith in Buffy's body said in "Who Are You" that "would be wrong." The girl's just trying to get by.

mis dos centavos

[Blixxt]

That's not Amy who Buffy accidentally kills in the preview for next week. Since we're not supposed to post spoilers for future episodes in this thread I won't say who, but just know that it's *not* Amy. If you want to find out who, go here and look under the description for Dead Things.

[This message has been edited by Blixxt (edited January 29, 2002).]

[lurking lisa]

Did i do a booboo? oops.. This is why im a lurker.. I jump the gun.. Im sorry. That girl looked just like Amy.. Maybe its just because i want her GONE!!! I apologize...

[Ari]

I couldn't help thinking when I watched the ep tonight that it seemed like Amy is kind of the anti-Tara. Willow de-ratted her in the ep right after Tabula Rasa and she was pretty actively a terrible influence in Willow's life. For some reason when I saw her walking away from the house tonight it reminded me of the shot of Tara walking away in Wrecked (maybe it was the hooded sweaters). But I felt like Willow turning Amy away was an important step in making her ready for any sort of reconciliation with Tara.

Also, I think maybe having something magical done to her against her will might be that clue-by-four Willow was needing to realize just how bad what she did to Tara was.

And I sort of like how they are showing that Will's biggest issue with not using magic is how much she'd come to use it for her own convenience. Her problem with everything is how slow it is and how long it takes, because those are all the casual things she was using magic for - which was what caused the first big fight between them in All the Way and started all the trouble.

When she's in pressure situations, like the end of the last couple of eps, she doesn't seem to have a big problem doing things the old fashioned way.

Ari

[JBC]

although this wasn't the best buffy episode, there were some, um, interesting subtexts in the closing battle that made me respect ms. espenson.

i don't mean to detract from this thread's serious conversation (and i hope the moderators don't edit me for this), but didn't anyone notice that the monster looked, um, ... very, um .... phallic?

my girlfriend thought it was hilarious and she thought it was even more hilarious that willow was the one to cut it off and throw it in the grinder. hee hee! ^_^

now, i mean no offense to any male w/t lovers. maybe my girlfriend and i are playing the hermeneutic roles too seriously and we're way off track, but it's an interesting viewpoint.

JBC

oh, and notice buffy was "paralyzed" by the "snake" monster's squirts (uh, i mean its venom)

[GODisTigger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sela:
Oh, and I don't think it's terribly unreasonable that all Buffy would want in exchange for keeping quiet is a job.

not to blackmail, because as Faith in Buffy's body said in "Who Are You" that "would be wrong." The girl's just trying to get by.

---

I was going to quote that.

Why didn't Buffy blackmail them?

"Because it's wrong!

Dquote:

[Ari]

JBC,

You saw that subtext too! Oh, thank God. I felt like such a perv.

I've been calling it the 'penis monster' all night long.

*LOL*

Ari

[geekgod]

i enjoyed parts of this episode, the lack of tara not being one of them though. hopefully next week we will get a visit from tara.

anyways there were some funny parts in my opinion. i liked the way anya and her vengence demon friend greeted each other and their banter all together.

xander was funny throughout the whole episode. espicially when he thought he ate a human burger.

i love willow's reaction to amy at the end. and amy showing that she wasn't ok about being a rat finally came back. and the part when willow is like confessing to the drive through i thought was really funny.

as a whole the episode was okay, but i'm really looking forward to next week.

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"i don't get wild, wild on me equals 'spaz'"

"i worship beelzebub! i do his bidding. do you see any goats around? no! because i sacrificed them! all bow before SATAN!"

[Anya's Necklace]

I enjoyed this episode as well.

I mean, there were mistakes, confusing elements, and a very uncomfortable B/S sex scene, but it made for a good hour of tv.

The things I enjoyed most:

-ANYA! She was hilarious. Especially liked the "I was counting on Willow to help, but that's been blown to hell".

-Amy/Willow. That last 20 seconds before Amy left felt VERY fairytale-ish.

-The training video- OH SO TRUE! I sat through 4 hours of those b*tches.

Things I didn't enjoy-

-I agree that it would've been far more enjoyable to see over the top perky employees, rather than mono syllabic drones. I thought that was a wasted element.

-Dawn. GIVE HER A STORY!!!!

-Xander. I'm not sure what it is at the moment, but I usually find myself disliking any line that comes out of his mouth. Meh, I'll get over it!

-The fact that it *COULD* have been ALOT better.

Can't wait for next week. And the week after, and the subsequent weeks to follow.
YAAAY!

~AN~

[juri-sempai]

I enjoyed this episode. It wasn't up there with all the other BtVS masterpiece episodes but it was funny. And gross. Kinda makes you never want to eat fast food again. Hrm but I laughed a lot more with this episode than I did with 'Gone'.

I also think that Buffy looked adorable in her DMP uniform.

Yes, Amy is a bad bad girl. I don't know though. I can't hate her. I just REALLY dislike her. I mean, she's never really had anyone around to show her how to deal with her magic usage. No positive role-models. Ah well. I'm very VERY glad that Willow told her off. Strong Willow!! I like how she managed to highlight the entire page in her school book. Alyson's acting (as per usual) was fantabulous in this episode.

Did anyone notice Dawn's kitten t-shirt? Chalk full of kitteny goodness.

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Reincarnation: the futile attempt to get the milk back into the can

"Big day. I got places to be, big day. Need a brain."

[JBC]

ari,

my girlfriend and i are glad we weren't the only ones. don't feel bad about being a perv! (hee hee, we don't!) i would be suprised if the writer, director and make-up artists didn't intend for the monster to look the way it did.

and here i was afraid other members would think we were weird...

JBC

oh, and we've been calling it "penis monster" too (and other cruder things that don't belong on message boards) .

[xita]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ari:
JBC,
I've been calling it the 'penis monster' all night long.

*LOL*

Ari

---

Then Willow pulled a lorena bobbit!

quote:

[Warduke]

And when the penis, er, I mean snake spit at Willow, she dove out of the way screaming...HAHAHA

[Dr.G]

Well not entirely Xita, Willow was smart enough to throw it in a meat grinder.

[xita]

squealing away lol! And she throws it in the grinder hahahah!

Now, seriously, I have speculated before that the threat this year is misoginy. That that has been the enemy for the scoobs and I think this episode just gave that a lot of fuel. Xander's behavior is looking more and more oppressive, Willow/rack, buffy/spike, etc... I stated it before anyway, this big penis metaphor is no throwaway, it was too obvious! Big penis paralyzes Buffy and Willow chops it off. Geez, man...

Anyway, I like the ep better now with that reading. I thought having a monster of the week was good. It was a nice change. I also loved Halfrek. She was really funny and I am happy to see that x/a issues are being addressed.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited January 30, 2002).]

[fell]

Holy shades of Woody Allen, batgirl!

"Save me Willow- use the Bobbinator! The wrinkly pink worm squirted its magick fluid at me and I seem to have lost control of my body from the waist down, yet somehow you don't seem to be affected."

[CaptMurdock]

Incredible. All that build-up of suspicion that the employees were ending up in the burgers...

...and not one Soylent Green reference!

Well, okay, that bit where she's grabbing the food out of people's hands, crying "It's people! You're eating people!"

A cute ep. Not great, but we can wait for great...until Tara comes back...then, we want great.

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"Good God, that's a lot of shake!"

[Lijdrec]

quote:

---

Originally posted by xita:
Now, seriously, I have speculated before that the threat this year is misoginy. That that has been the enemy for the scoobs and I think this episode just gave that a lot of fuel. buffy/spike, etc... I stated it before anyway, this big penis metaphor is no throway, it was too obvious! Big penis paralyzes Buffy and Willow chops it off. Geez, man....

---

Speaking of misogyny wasn't that speech of Spike's about money paraphrasing Humbert's speech to Lolita?

quote:

[Shaniezak]

I gotta jump on the "really enjoyed this episode" bandwagon. Not so much for the episode in and of itself, but for the way it helped to lay groundwork for what looks like a very pivotal set of events in the next few episodes. What with the doubts planted in Anya's mind by Halfrek's rhetoric (whether intentional or not on Halfrek's part), this new side of her personality that Amy's revealed, the massive wake-up call Willow received (in terms of how Tara must have felt violated by the memory-altering spell), Buffy's new status as a (sort of) working gal . . .

One bit that struck me as very poignant indeed was Dawn's scene with Xander, when she expressed her concerns that she still has the chance to be anything she wants, but Buffy's never going to be able to have a normal career life. I think at that moment, my heart really went out to both of them.

Besides which, I found the whole fast-food thing hysterical . . .

Oh, and on that Freudian metaphor sort of thing . . . do note what happened to the yellow #2 pencil in the Magic Box after Willow touched it . . .

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"And where does magick come from? I think magick's in the learning . . ." -- Dar Williams

"And if there is a way to find you, I will find you . . . but threads that are golden don't break easily . . ." -- Tori Amos

"Love is lightning, love is ice; it only strikes the lucky twice--once so you will know the price, and once for crazy faith . . ." -- Alison Krauss and Union Station

[cachaco]

Yeah, JBC, you're far from the only one to notice the comically phallic nature of the monster ... the fact that Willow was able to avoid its paralyzing squirt ... that she put it in a meat grinder (!)... it's like the wood chipper scene from Fargo ... no more timber!

The ep was OK, it felt pretty random given how arc-y the rest of the season has been, but I guess you need that kind of ep once in a while...the training video was pretty funny, I guess....

And I just loved it that Willow was able to defeat the monster without resorting to magic - progress! I do think we may be past the worst of it, which is all good...but clearly, Amy's been set up for a return...who knows how powerful she really is...bring on the sweeps!

[BBOvenGuy]

Put me in the "I liked it" column.

Okay, it's not "Who Are You" - but it was fun. Admittedly, I'm a sucker for deadpan surreal humor, but it was still fun even without that.

Nice little plug for a fellow UPN series at the beginning, with the nerd trio having pictures of the Vulcan chick from Enterprise in their lair. Although I prefer Ensign Hoshi myself... but that's just me.

Perhaps what a lot of people didn't like about the episode is that it's very much a throwback to some of the "monster of the week" episodes from the first and second seasons. I mean, take out the B/S BS and the wedding and the magic addiction and what you've got left is a half-hour story that would work as an episode of the Buffy cartoon - and that's supposed to be set during Season 1.

It's a bit strange to see Buffy reduced to working at a fast food place, but remember that this is all part of a process. Buffy is learning to appreciate life again, and along the way she will start to appreciate herself again as well. Once she does that, she'll start striving for something bigger and better.

The Buffy/Spike sex is part of that same process. Yes, the scene tonight was disturbing. It was supposed to be disturbing. The entire storyline is supposed to be disturbing. Buffy hasn't valued life. She hasn't valued herself. She doesn't think she's worth much, and so she gives in to the physical pleasure of the sex, even though she has always felt (and still does) that Spike is subhuman filth. Once upon a time, she said Spike was beneath her, but lately she's been feeling so worthless herself that nothing else could be beneath her. Tonight marked a turning point with that, I think. She's starting to see just how low she's fallen, which will lead to her wanting to climb back up again. That won't be good news for the B/S shippers, but then again this was in the cards from the beginning.

As for Amy... poor Amy. Amy is like the adult child of an alcoholic, becoming an alcoholic herself. She's turning into her mother. A lot of people hate her now, but I remember when she was a sympathetic character, and I feel sorry for her. I don't think she's going to come to a very pleasant end. As others have pointed out, though, what she did tonight gave Willow a taste of what the forget spell must have felt like to Tara, and that's got to be good for the long-term W/T situation.

And next week... Tara's back! Yay!!!

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

[Tolley]

OK, so I'm not the only one who was ready to hurl after that episode? I was dry-heaving practically the entire time.

Overall, an enjoyable episode, except for the wanting to puke parts. It felt good to laugh out loud again with the show. Buffy had some funny lines. But what excited me most was when Willow said "Respect the narrative flow much?" So reminded me of the early days, when every sentence ended in "much."

And Buffy said she was a "tool." hehehe

Willow has done so much to help her through her "addiction." It was great seeing her use her brains, two episodes in a row. I really felt bad for her after her "birthday present." Seeing her struggling, shaking, almost brought me to tears. Damn Aly for being so good. Was it just me or was Willow's eyes extra big and black after Amy messed with her?

Can we start a "We hate Amy Club?" I want to be the treasurer.

The penis metaphor, pretty obvious, but pretty funny, too!

Oh, and I screamed so loud when Tara was on screen for the preview. Granted it was for less than a second, but pretty freaking exciting. I miss her.

Favorite lines: (Yeah, I really liked the scene when the gang comes to visit Buffy at DMP)

Buffy - "Theory number 5, cat-burgers."

Anya - "Is that him? Getting the pickles wet?"

Willow - "Hey, standing right here. Standing exactly right here!"

Tolley

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Tara: Oh my God, I'm cured! I want the boys!
"Once More, With Feeling"

[Wiccagrrl]

I gotta say I really liked this ep, too. The Anya/Halfrek stuff was very interesting. And I am *so* glad that they are finally addressing the way he treats her (which at times seriously makes me cringe.)

B/S...could they possibly have gone out of their way to de-romanticize this any more? Which, don't get me wrong, I'm glad about. If they're gonna go down that road at least it's not all lovey-dovey.

The W/A interaction was fascinating, and yeah, I think it did set up a turning point for W/T. And wow, did Amy ever show her true colors. Loving strong Willow, though. She's got a ways to go, but she'll make it and W/T will be stronger than ever.

The fast food storyline was amusing enough, but like so many other Buffy eps, especially the monster-of-the-week eps, it was the little things that weren't part of the supposed main plot that really helped move the season-long arc along.

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Tracy

Hear that Baby? You're my always.