Tara is back (and gone again)- thanks to Chris Golden!!!!!

[DaddyCatALSO]

If anyone wants to discuss this once it comes out, I'm sure all of us here know the sites wheere we can do so and yes, or is that no, it doesn't fit here, beyond discussing managerial backstory.

And i agree that Chris is the best choice for this if anyone is.

And only good fanfics have the metaphysical energy to generate parallell continua...which applies to most of the ones I've seen here *g.

[Shiai]

Addressing the controversy surrounding the recent revelation that he will resurrect Tara Maclay in his upcoming Buffy novel, DARK CONGRESS, author Christopher Golden answers questions...many of them submitted by fans...in an exclusive new SlayerLit interview.

SlayerLit (dot) us

[erith]

Addressing the controversy surrounding the recent revelation that he will resurrect Tara Maclay in his upcoming Buffy novel, DARK CONGRESS, author Christopher Golden answers questions...many of them submitted by fans...in an exclusive new SlayerLit interview.

I really enjoyed that and I found myself agreeing with most of what Chris had to say about Seasons 6 and 7.

Regarding the refusal to allow a permanent return for Tara I couldn't help noticing that JW was happy to bring the X-Men's Colossus back from the dead. Of course Colossus sacrificed himself to save thousands of lives while Tara's death was a waste and we wouldn't want to change that.

[Dana5140]

Here is the link to the interview:
http://www.slayerlit.us/interviews/interview10.htm

[Shiai]

Since posting the interview, I've noticed that a few people seem to be under the impression that Joss Whedon personally said that Tara's return could not be permanent. To clear this up, I wrote back to Chris and asked him, and this is what he says:

[blockquote]I think that's highly improbable, verging on the impossible. Joss has never paid very much attention to what goes on in the novels. He's said in the past that's because he's afraid that it would lure him in to become far more involved than he has the time to be. The job of the licensing department is to both follow existing parameters laid down years ago by Mutant Enemy and Joss, and to anticipate what might be their concerns. When Nancy Holder and I killed Xander in THE GATEKEEPER TRILOGY, obviously we had to bring him back to life. When I wrote THE LOST SLAYER, I had to write a bookend story that would show that this was one possible future...and it had been averted in the present day...to avoid readers thinking this WAS the future. The great flaw of media tie-in novels is that the one, overwhelming, unbendable rule is that you CANNOT effect lasting change. You get to play with the toys, but you have to put them back the way you found them at the end. This isn't a case of Joss personally not allowing Tara to live. There's absolutely no way, if he was willing to have that happen, that he would allow it to be done in the novels as opposed to in something of his own creation. I don't foresee that ever changing, unless the days comes when he's moved on so completely from this world that he decides he's never going to write another word or oversee another tv or comics project or movie involving these characters. I feel pretty confident in saying that Joss is likely blissfully unaware that any of this is even happening. In fact, his response would probably be something like..."Books? They're still doing those?" - Christopher Golden[/blockquote]

I hope this clears things up a bit more.

[DaddyCatALSO]

Ultimately and whatever it may look like from outside, all of us do whatever we do for our own reasons. It can nver at the deepest elvel be for anyone else's reasons or for no reason at all, really. I'm not surprised Chris is a person who knows this.

[erith]

The great flaw of media tie-in novels is that the one, overwhelming, unbendable rule is that you CANNOT effect lasting change. You get to play with the toys, but you have to put them back the way you found them at the end. This isn't a case of Joss personally not allowing Tara to live. There's absolutely no way, if he was willing to have that happen, that he would allow it to be done in the novels as opposed to in something of his own creation.

Hmmm. So no-one can rock the boat? I can understand why that would be the position when the TV show was in production, but not anymore. I suppose I prefer the Doctor Who approach of continuity be damned. Tell a good story because it's a good story and sort out any continuity problems later.

[DaddyCatALSO]

Cordy; the operative word is "tie-in;" the writers are playing in a licensed sandbox and so the licensee retains the right to decide what type of sand is used. From what little I've seen of it, the Dr Who TV series itself had little real continuity to begin with so comparing it to properties that do stress continuity (whetehr the B'verse, Star Wars, etc) whether in production or not, doesn't quite reach. But yeah, preffering one approach or the other is exactly that, preference, and I'm glad you like what you like.

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

When I first posted on this subject, i was not aware that the genie had to be placed back in the bottle. For those who felt misled by my opening post, my apologies, but in my defence I didn't know the smile would be short-lived.

However, I'm still gonna buy it. Of all the writers who could have dealt with this subject, there are only two I trust to do it with grace and dignity and understanding. Those two are of course Chris and Amber.

[TaraLivesOn]

Not only am I buying this book for certain but I am telling everyone I know to buy it. I have complete faith that Chris handled this as best as could be based on his friendship with Amber.

So imagine what would happen if a new book with Tara became one of the best selling Buffy books? Hmm?

(By the way you can get this for like $2 if you live in the states and order it from Buy.com and use the $10 off for new Google Checkout customers:
http://www.buy.com/prod/106/203530607.html )

[erith]

Cordy.

Was that a heavy sigh I heard?

From what little I've seen of it, the Dr Who TV series itself had little real continuity to begin with so comparing it to properties that do stress continuity (whetehr the B'verse, Star Wars, etc) whether in production or not, doesn't quite reach.

Yes it does have real continuity, but being such a longrunning show some of the writers didn't feel the need to check every detail from a story that was made 20 years earlier. In the years between the original and new TV series we got books, audios and comics, sometimes with completely differing continuities.

But yeah, preffering one approach or the other is exactly that, preference

That's why I said it.

However, I'm still gonna buy it. Of all the writers who could have dealt with this subject, there are only two I trust to do it with grace and dignity and understanding. Those two are of course Chris and Amber.

I'm waiting to hear how Tara leaves at the end of the book (which won't be at The Kitten obviously), but there's a very good chance I'll be getting it. Not because I want any closure or end to Willow and Tara's story but because it sounds like a good book.

[Dana5140]

So imagine what would happen if a new book with Tara became one of the best selling Buffy books? Hmm?

Well, nothing will happen because I believe that Chris' book will be the last of the Buffy novels. S&S is phasing the series out, or so I am hearing.

[Shiai]

Well, nothing will happen because I believe that Chris' book will be the last of the Buffy novels. S&S is phasing the series out, or so I am hearing.

Actually, ONE THING OR YOUR MOTHER by Kirsten Beyer is set for release in January. No further books after that have been announced yet, nor have Fox or Simon & Schuster announced the end of the novel franchise.

[helpfulinformationperhaps]

no offense to Chris but I will not be buying this book.

I see no point to putting MORE money into the pockets of TPTB/those who own the trademark for BtVS/Tara.

To me - TPTB allowing Chris to write this story - only as long as Tara is dead at the end of it - smacks of their using her as a ploy to boost sales -

They are leasing out Tara knowing it will attract another demographic to buy - but giving nothing in return.

Chris has already pointed out he has been paid and it makes no difference to his pocket book if this novel sells or not - so the only people who would profit from sales here would be TPTB

I've no wish to see TPTB enriched by sales of this book.

I believe a stronger message is sent if the book sales are low - and they know that they are low due to Tara fans boycotting it. Only when it hits them in the pocket book will they take notice.

TPTB would have no incentive to green light a tara is back for good story of any kind - if they can continue to sell sell sell to tara fans - by just bringing her back only to bury her again. So I will be boycotting this book.

If TPTB want another dime out of me - they have to bring tara back and keep her back - until then - and as far as I'm concerned - the story ended a long time ago - with willow and tara alive, back together and doing fine.

[DaddyCatALSO]

helpfulinformationperhaps: great stand.

erith;I don't recal sigihing as I typed it. There was no sigh of exasperation or anything because I wasn't exasperated or anything, and if iyou thought it was a sigh for the characters well eprhaps it was but if you thought it was a lustful sigh, all I can say is I have mor epics of AMber, MErcedes and even SMG on my wall than I do of Charisma.

[Kendahl897]

TaraLivesOn,
Thanks for the link.

This is a decision that people will have to make for themselves based on what they believe and no decision is the wrong one. People will do what they feel comfortable with. And Willow and Tara will live on forever

[Dana5140]

Hey, Shiai- I thought that Chris's book was set to be released after Kristen Beyers. And I also thought we had seen a comment from someone on one of the boards about the end of the series. Darned if I can find it now, when I need it. :-)

[Shiai]

no offense to Chris but I will not be buying this book.

I see no point to putting MORE money into the pockets of TPTB/those who own the trademark for BtVS/Tara.

They are leasing out Tara knowing it will attract another demographic to buy - but giving nothing in return.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone for not wanting to read this book because they are unhappy that the 'Tara genie' is being put back into the bottle at the end, as Chris as said.

But it does seem to me that Fox and Simon & Schuster would have absolutely no incentive to use Tara in any future books again if DARK CONGRESS does poorly. They will simply say, "Well, there appear to be no Tara fans, so let's forget about that character." However, if this book does well, it may just light a fire under some people (hello, Mr. Whedon?) to bring our girl back for good.

[Kendahl897]

I tend to agree Shiai but some will see it as stated in the earlier thread. And thats's fine. Its kind of a glass half full/ half empty kind of thing. And people should really just do what they're comfortable with.

(Personally, I think the outrage of the fans and then the bottoming out of the ratings in seven to 2.3 brought home the point of what a mistake the events of season 6 were, even if some people will never admit it, or choose instead to try and place blame elsewhere; but thats a subject already well covered so we'll leave it at that).

[Katharyn]

it may just light a fire under some people (hello, Mr. Whedon?) to bring our girl back for good.

Ordinarily this kind of logic would apply to a commercial entity like publishing (though as Chris said, Whedon probably isn't even aware they are still publishing books)

However this franchise is barely more alive than canon-Tara herself. As a number of other threads have pointed out... It's several years since the last TV shows all of which suffered decling ratings in later years anyway. They seem to have done a good job in alienating the general 'BTVS Fan' in favour of a number of smaller character specific shipper movements (us, for example.) As such buying or not buying this book isn't - I believe - going to influence the Tara situation in the slightest.

With due credit to Monty Python...

It's not pinin', it's passed on! This franchise is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late franchise. It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it would be pushing up the daisies! It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This is an ex-franchise!

The only real place that BTVS continues to exist is in it's fan communities and they're getting smaller and smaller to the point they can't sustain commercial efforts about their own ships etc. Yes, you can probably sell enough books to break even, but more people are looking for books about their ship, not about the general BTVS story. But as a fraction of the total fan base, a ship specific book will make even less money.

Comics (having lower cost I imagine) are the last refuge for BTVS. The final perch, if you will.

Do I have evidence for all this? The evidence of my eyes will do. A few dog eared buffy books left over on book seller shelves. Slashing the cost of DVD's and they're still not selling (since everyone who wanted them has already got them.) A million (or at least several hundred) shows have gone the same way and will continue to do so. I'm not saying this through bitterness, just accepting the commercial reality.

So what was I saying? Oh yeah. Buy or don't buy this book as your feelings dictate. But don't feel you need to in order to show some support for Tara as a character. You can do that right here, and the boards are filled with fic (lots of it at high quality) that keep her alive or bring her back. And it's free through Xita's ongoing generosity (look ma, no advertising!)

Katharyn

[helpfulinformationperhaps]

I agree Kath.

with no hope of a buffy movie and whedon being unable to sell a spin off of the show - the francise is dead. The best whedon could do was pitch the comic - and there is little audience or profit to be made there.

Shipper communities are what is left of the fan base - and the tara fan base is one of the largest/strongest of those shipper groups - my thinking is they allowed the use of tara to try and pull a few more bucks from us tara fans - and if they could get a rise out of us by having her yoyo from and back to the grave all the better for advertising - nothing grabs media attention (and thus sells a product) like controversy

my response is - been there done that - I'm a tara fan and I'm sticking around but I'm not paying for a corpse.

Boycotts work because they hit the seller in the pocket book

where is the incentive - why should they change a thing if they can still keep selling to tara fans while keeping her in her grave?

to my mind buying this book will just put more nails in tara's coffin - FOX would have no incentive to bring her back for good

[Kendahl897]

Well, putting aside the issue of Fox and ME and their motivations for a minute, I want to say that regardless of anyone's feelings about this book, I believe, as I think all others do here also, that Chris Goldens heart and intentions are honorable. And I'm also not saying that anyone here is saying otherwise. So don't misinterpret me. But if Chris is lurking, I want him to know that we love and respect him. Always have, always will.
As for the book, thats' gonna have to come down to people's individual beliefs and decision. It's all good . Peace out

[gorn]

I may be the lone voice in the wilderness here, but I actually think the comic is a good medium for Joss & Buffy. I'm not really much of a comicbook fan, but I know he's had a lot of success with X-Men and other titles. It's not as glamorous or lucrative as TV or movies, granted, but Buffy is the kind of story that really lends itself to comics and it's something Joss seems genuinely happy with. I'm enjoying the new series quite a bit.

I've refrained from talking about this elsewhere on the Board, but a lot of people reading the comic are under the impression this is where Joss is going to bring Tara back. I don't blame anyone out there for not trusting him with it - I don't really myself - but, unlike this new book that's coming out what happens here is Canon. If by some miracle Joss does the right thing, then we've got a living, breathing Tara in whatever incarnation Buffy might take in the future. Let's face it - Hollywood is not at all original; 5-10 years down the road, you're probably going to start seeing X-Files, Buffy, and any other show that was popular or cool in the 90's on the silver screen. How many 70's & 80's shows have already gone that way? Trust me - the 90's are next.

Like this new book that's coming out, some folks here are going to read it eagerly, many are not. Many here have moved on and are not ever going to look back. I've commented elsewhere that I believe some of the stuff written in Pens is as good or better than what was on TV ... but I'm one of those who still keeps looking back now and then. Should things not work out - again - we can always come back here.

As for boycotts, I don't really think something like that would make a difference. You should read the book - or not - based on your own feelings. If you weren't going to read it anyway, then it's not really a boycott ...

[dlline]

Gorn,

The boots are off... and I agree with you. I have purchased the comics. Regardless of my feelings about Tara's death, the character still belongs to Joss and all the wishing and hoping in the world isn't gonna change that. I hope he does the right thing, but I know the odds are about 50/50. He might, he might not. I also agree that some of the work on this board is better than the canon stuff being published, but we are a niche market. We read (here) what we want, skip what we don't want, and everyone has their own option and choices to live with.

I will probably also purchase Chris' book. I like his writing, and I still appreciate canon for what it is. Many shows do things with characters that I don't agree with, and I have done things with my own characters that people on this board don't agree with. That's just simply life and the way things work.

Diane

[Katharyn]

I hate to say it, but if I was a successful (award winning) writer (and I am referring to JW here not CG) and a bunch of people who had previously loved my creative vision started telling me what to do, no way no how would I do it.

I'm not making a dig at JW here. I'm not even being bitter (for once.) I'm saying - not having read a word or seen a frame - that I think the chance of that comic coming 'good' are extremely slim because that's what it means to have a vision. You resent the hell out of people telling you what to do with it. Everything I've ever heard JW says points me to believing that is how he thinks. I do too, about my own stuff. Lots of people do.

Also it doesn't strike me he's trying to ressurect his franchise, I think he's just having fun taking it where he wants it to go now and getting paid for it too.

I'm going to shut up on the subject now because I am probably risking dragging the conversation places it shouldn't go (for which I apologise), what happens in the comic has no bearing on what happened in the series and it's the wrong thread anyway. (That makes me triple bad!)

As for boycotts I'd agree with Gorn. It's only a boycott if you would have bought it but now you won't. Personally I was never going to click that partcular mouse button.

Katharyn

[helpfulinformationperhaps]

there is a differene between art and commercial art. for the former, the artist is free to pursue their vision - for the later the bottom line must be considered. If you have payroll to meet and investors to pay - then you have to take your market into consideration - as Kath. points out - whedon seems to be the kind of guy who enjoys biting the hand that feeds him - so I agree with her - I just don't see whedon ever bringing Tara back to willow for good.

as for boycotts - well - I've never read a chris golden book - but I would have if tara was in it and she remained alive going forward - now - given what i know - there is no chance I will read this book - so I guess this is my own personal little boycott

as others have pointed out - this is not to dis Chris - who as I've posted before seems to be a fine guy and good supporter of the the W/T shippers

to me its just a way of taking my jab at Fox/TPTB who left Tara in her grave to begin with - it may only be the price of a book out of their pockets - but hey - so be it

[Shiai]

HIP, I'd like to recommend that you pick up MONSTER ISLAND by Chris Golden (of course) and Tom Sniegoski, a BtVS/AtS "team-up" book. It's set early in S6 of BtVS, and the authors not only treat Tara with the utmost respect, but they really give her a chance to shine on her own (as she and Willow are apart for a stretch of the story) and demonstrate her own singular power as a witch. Tara even gets to sing (and this is set pre-OMWF)! Plus, there's the instant friendship bonding between Tara and Fred (speaking in the same half-sentence shorthand only they seem to understand) to enjoy. LOL

Plus, massive W&T goodness.

[Dana5140]

And when Tara and Willow meet up again on Monster Island after being apart, sparks fly. Literally! It's one of the best passages in any of the Buffy books I've read.

And yes, Tara and Fred are tres cute together.

[Sheridan]

The great flaw of media tie-in novels is that the one, overwhelming, unbendable rule is that you CANNOT effect lasting change. You get to play with the toys, but you have to put them back the way you found them at the end.

Okay that isn't strictly true. The recent Star Trek novel, 'The Good That Men Do' effectively rewrites the ending of Star Trek Enterprise, significantly for this discussion by bringing back a character who was dead at the end of the TV series, and makes it clear this wasn't temporary. Frankly it seems more like someone at Fox is just being a hard ass because Joss won't let anyone else mess with his 'vision'.

[The Rose24]

If anyone is interested, the book "Dark Congress" by Chris Golden is available now.

If any kittens plan on reading it, let the rest of us know how it is.