Lost and Delirious

[KinKness]

Hey Well.. I didn't See one for this movie.. So i thought i better put it in if theres Already one.. I'm Sorry:paranoid

Lost and delirous is on tonight at 9.30 on Sbs For any Australian Kittens... Tonight will be my First time Watching it ..i've heard off alot people that it's a great movie...So maybe you Can share your View of it... And I'll Share Mine As Soon as i see it..

Edited by: Warduke at: 10/18/03 12:46 am

[Kinkish]

KINKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! G'day oh mighty sexy one lol thought i would reply to your post. So here it is lol.



Kinkish

[Chameleon girl]

Howdy there, I watched it last night simply cause nuthin else was on. But as soon as I started I couldn't stop till the very, extremely, painfully sad end.



It was so sweet in the beginning though, im gettin a bit down just thinking about it. The girl who played Paulie was brilliant, I loved the scene where she stalks into the library in her fencing gear and leaps onto a table to declare her love for Tori.

Damn Tori, damn society, why can't we all just get along and be accepting of simple things like love. It would make life much easier.

"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

[KinKness]

i know i cryed like a baby. .. The start was great But then Tori got caught.. and she couldn't handle.. Being different.. which is pretty sad But happends alot.. i don't understand how you could turn your back on something you love...it isnt right and your not being true to youself..

at the start she was all I don't wanna turn into my mother but by the end she was just like her mother... She Changed to fit in.... which isn't right..

KinKness

[xita]

This movie sucks. I can't stand it. It really made me feel like I'd gone back in time and was watching the children's hour. So depressing and old fashioned. I hated the ending where everyone watched the damn falcon flying away as if it was our poor lesbian flying away to freedome. Our little lesbian friend is in the ground dead, somoene please look at her!



grr, don't like this movie. So much potential.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Chameleon girl]

Quote:

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I hated the ending where everyone watched the damn falcon flying away as if it was our poor lesbian flying away to freedome

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I tend to agree. Corny misplaced metaphors anyone?

It damn well bugged the crap outta me! I was like: "I knew this was going to happen!" As soon as she got all dejected and moody I clicked.

Nothing like a good depressing movie to make you, well, depressed.

"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

[Spikeizmine87]

i love that movie soo much! I think its incredibly cute! But I hate how Torri acts! "oh i love u but im not gay!" What a terrible chicka to break Paulies heart! I watch it everytime it comes on, much to the dislike of others here "rolls eyes" I liked their relationship in the beggining, but at the end, when she killed herself, i admit I cried. I love Piper Perabu (agrh sp!) shes a great actress and cute as hell!

"Lesbian?! You think I'm a F***ing lesbian?!"

"Youre a girl in love with a girl arent you?"

"No! Its Paulie, in love with Torri! I have to get her back. because I am hers, and she is...she is MINE!"



I love that!

-Rose



I loves me AMber!

[sam7777]

Yeah I liked this movie until the cliched end and then I hated it. I think a better metaphor for the falcon would have been to compare the freedom of the Falcon flying away with Paulie moving on with her life and/or leaving the school. It was boring and unoriginal to have it end as it dead and ruined the whole movie for me. What I really found depressing about the movie was the cliched unoriginality of the end. Definitely on my list of 2 hours that I want back and an excelellent candidate for the next edition of the Celluloid Closet.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Amymlc]

I'm split about this movie. I purchased it for its cinematography, but story-wise I was not impressed. I think it is just because I'm tired of the whole lesbian going crazy and dying thing. How can all the teachers (especially the lesbian ones) see this little girl falling (both literally and metaphorically) and not do anything to stop her.



Gay films don't have to have a happy ending....but geesh, something other than death and/or insanity/evilness would be nice. Even some of the gay film makers are stuck in this cliche.

[Mrs Vertigo]

Quote:

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I hated the ending where everyone watched the damn falcon flying away as if it was our poor lesbian flying away to freedome

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Sorry, I can't help myself. Does anybody remember the scene in Bevis & Butthead Do America, where the hippy-dippy music teacher sings: "Fly away, lesbian seagull…"?



Yes, I hear what all of you are saying about the cliché'd ending, and I second that. But before that I thought it was a pretty darn good movie. I liked the actresses and found them believable. Amazing cinematography. Really strong dialogs almost up until the end… including the psycho "unsex me here and take my milk for gall" speech. Plus it was nice to see a gay movie getting prime time, movie-of-the-week screening. All in all I'd have to say that it might be cliché and depressing, but at least its bloody well done!



Did anyone recognize the choir song? Sanctus-Sanctus-something..? It was beautiful.

I love my long lost Jewish little-potato twin. In a prison way.

Edited by: Mrs Vertigo at: 10/28/03 7:26 am

[sam7777]

I'm looking for a well done movie with great cinematogaphy where the lesbian doesn't die. Surely it can be done? Without death, it seems, we don't get to see a gay movie getting prime time, movie-of-the-week screening (Re: "Philadelphia"). I agree with Amber's statement in her Curve interview: (posted by Liquidreamd681)

Quote:

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"You don't get many romantic comedies about two gay men or two women. There's a whole segment of the population that is not getting its needs addressed, and I felt this film was trying to address them. Plus," she adds, "it has a happy ending."

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"A happy ending" but as extinct as the dodo for lesbians in the media. Surely there can be beauty and poetry in the love of two women that does not end in death. "Lost and Delirious" like Willow/Tara on Buffy makes me more angry because it was good before the the cliched end. If it was just female porn ala "The Real Cancun", I wouldn't be watching and not care (btw the girls screwing for the boys there got to live). The problem is that most lesbian romances end in the dance of death on the screen. However well done it might be, it is cliched and all too commonplace. Can't producers and screen writers take on what apparently is a massive challenge and give us a happy lesbian couple in the end? Guess not.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Mrs Vertigo]

I agrre that Happy Endings for lesbians in the movies are few and far between. But still, there are Kissing Jessica Stein, and But I'm a Cheerleader. Yes, both of these are silly. But didn't we ask for gay comedies? *shrugs* As for serious attempts at drama -If These Walls Could Talk II isn't half bad.



I know that's a handful, but what it shows is that there is hope out there and the cliche's not eternal. In the meanwhile, why don't we all do our remaining braincells a favor, throw our tv sets out the window and go read a nice fanfic. Or rather, go read an original fiction, like Women On Fire. . Or a good ol' classic like Vita and Virginia (if we can find the damn thing).

I love my long lost Jewish little-potato twin. In a prison way.

[sam7777]

Mrs Vertigo: For me, it will be better when it's 50-50 on lesbian survival vs the 90-10 against we have now. I can't see how that will happen if we don't criticize the cliches now.



I certainly have thrown out my TV. I'm not watching any shows this season and only the occasional documentary or PBS special and the news. Also, I'm reading alot of fanfic at Pens. I read "Portrait of a Marriage" and "Vita" for my Vita and Violet and Virginia fix. As for "Vita and Virginia", Amazon has their correspondence : Vita and Virginia: The Work and Friendship of V. Sackville-West and Virginia Woolf and Price search has: Vita and Virginia: Adapted from the Correpondence Betwween Virginia Woolf and Vita Sackville-West

All in all, my braincells still want to see happy lesbian couples on the screen and not just on the page.



I saw "If These Walls Could Talk II". I liked the middle story about the two young women but the Vanessa Redgrave thing was just too depressing for me (another dead lesbian) to finish watching and the Heche/Stone thing was the usual pregnant lesbian thing and I couldn't finish that either. Another movie I could name is "The Amazing Adventures of two Girls in Love" but neither that or "Kissing Jessica Stein" has a happy romantic ending though granted no lesbian was harmed in the making of either film. I actually hated "Kissing Jessica Stein" because of it's ending as much as I hated "Lost and Delirious" because it's another cliche for me though not the dead lesbian cliche.



I'm not asking for the moon just no dead or tragic lesbians 50% of the time. Speaking of the moon, we went to the moon within a decade of President John F. JFK's decision, maybe we can have more happy endings for lesbians in movies and TV within 20 years. We need a president who will declare the happy lesbians on the screen year but I doubt it will be Bush.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 10/31/03 10:54 pm

[sfgo2003]

Xita wrote:

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This movie sucks. I can't stand it.

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Here!! Here!! Xita!!



I HATED this movie!! I think what angered me most about it was that it was a CONTEMPORARY movie that ended with a lesbian suicide. It is time to fu@#ing move on and find another theme!! I mean Gay/Lesbian/Straight Alliances are common place on Califronia High School Campuses now!! Let's DRAG ourselves into the 21st century people!!!



Just a little bitter!!



Wendy

[Mrs Vertigo]

sam7777, I guess I just have a higher raff for cliche'd crappness. I can stand a cliché if it's mighty-well done (i.e acting, dialogs, all other aspects that make a good movie).



Thank you so much for the Vita & Virginia links. Though I'm afraid both these websites don't ship to Israel. You have, however, re-motivated me to search for it. so thank you.



I never managed to see The Amazing Adventures. Either it was never distributed here in the first place or it was simply before my time. What is it about? I understand it has a happy ending… so now I'm terribly curious.



You might have your wish, even within less of 20 years. But if so, it'll only be because lesbianism would become trendy in Hollywood culture, or 'cool'. Something like T.A.T.O in the movies (and yes, I do know TATO weren't manufactured in Hollywood).



What just hit me is that it might be logical that the surviving ratio of lesbians in the media is 1 out of every 10. Since, well, isn't it usually said that around 10% of women are gay. In some crude and rather cruel way, one could claim that representation is true to life. *wonders*…



Ewwwww…! I can't believe I just said that.

I love my long lost Jewish little-potato twin. In a prison way.

[frenchrose888]

The problem is, I think this movie tried to go all Shakespearean - what with all the quotes, supposed to reflect the situation - and thus, they didn't see any other way to finish it than over the top (or over the roof... hmm, sorry) drama and bloodshed - in the form of Paulie crashing to the ground and probably splattering everything but the flying falcon with gore. Hmm. Sorry.



Anyway, what irks me in this movie is that it is not in itself a bad movie - the character of Paulie is interesting, and so is Mouse, for example. Great cinematography, setting etc. But I agree that this being a contemporary lesbian movie, the filmmakers should/could have taken a stand, so to speak, and altered the ending to make it relevant and useful to us, poor lesbian viewers and our fellow heterosexual moviegoers. I get that they were going for something tremendously romantic in the true sense of the word, that is to say passionate, painful, dangerous and possibly doomed. But honestly, Paulie's romantic outbursts - such as when she shows up in the library and kneels before Victoria - would have been equally, if not more, touching and poignants if in the end, she'd lived to find someone equally as passionate to love her back.



And if they really did want her to die, at the very least they could have done it differently.



(French)Rose

'Magic, thy name is Tara.' - Mariacomet, The Stone Circle.

[xita]

Ending aside (which I do despise), Paulie was out of control. She was not someone I could at all sympathize with. I felt like yelling at her many times, just get over it. At some point her behavior was dangerous to herself and others. It just taints lesbian love as obsessive and I generally object to movies like that. In general, there wasn't much in the movie that I liked, I didn't think it was good even if you removed the negative lesbian aspects.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[frenchrose888]

Xita - Good point, what you said about the implication that lesbian love is obsessive. I was so focused on the problem of the ending so far, that I really hadn't considered it, but it's true, she is out of control. I can actually feel a sort of sympathy for that girl, because as a teenager I was very much like her in many ways, so in a way I could relate to some of the things she thought or did. But of course, the problem is that this movie like any other movie sends a message, whether it meant to or not, and it's true that throughout the movie, that message is negative. I kinda forgot that there's more to a movie than what I, as a viewer, felt watching it : there's also the general impact it'll have on millions different people. Thanks for reminding me of that, actually.



(French)Rose

'Magic, thy name is Tara.' - Mariacomet, The Stone Circle.

[justin]

Quote:

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What just hit me is that it might be logical that the surviving ratio of lesbians in the media is 1 out of every 10. Since, well, isn't it usually said that around 10% of women are gay. In some crude and rather cruel way, one could claim that representation is true to life. *wonders*…

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The presentation of Lesbians in film is only true to life if in real life 90% of lesbian relationships end in tragedy. I haven't seen any studies about this but I doubt if this is the case.



The fact that 10% of women are gay just means that 10% of women in film should also be gay but Hollywood fails on this score as well.



Unlike Sam777 I wouldn't be happy with a 50-50 split of happy to dead/evil lesbian characters but would prefer the raio to be more like 90-10. Mainly because I go to films for escapism and therefore prefer to see relationships that end happily rather than in tragedy.



A little OT but someone mentioned kissing Jessica Stein. One of the things I read about that film was how it was great the way it didn't end in a typical, hollywood romantic comedy way. Am I the only one to find it interesting that the one rom-com to not have a happy ending is also the only one in a long time to be about a same sex relationship?

Anya in a wimple...I'd pay full admission for that. Gods Served And Abandoned - by Antigone Unbound


You know the worst thing about people in a relationship? The fact that they're in a relationship. - Hilda Spellman

[willowsgirl]

Justin- you're totally right about the 'kissing jessica stein' thing! I never noticed before, but really its inevitable that a lesbian rom-com couldnt end the same as a het one; couldnt have them happy now could we!? Grrr.

I actually really liked that film, once you get over the fact that both of the girls only foray into the relationship due to experimentation. But I guess thats how alot of relationships start so...I dunno, Ive had too much coffee!

But anyway, whenever I watch it I tend to stop the film at a happy part, about 10 minutes before the end- much better



Not really sure what this whole post was about but theres my 2p's worth! (I was gonna say 2 cents, but Im english!)

[sam7777]

Mrs Vertigo You're welcome. Good luck finding Vita and Virginia! "The Amazing Adventures of 2 girsl in Love" does have a happy ending but not a romantic happy ending. I don't wat to spoilt it for you. Yep my cliché threshhold is zero thanks to bad endings to other wise decent lesbian portrayals on BTVS, "Lost and Delirious" and "Kissing Jessica Stein". When the ratio is 50-50 then I may be ready to look at mighty-well done clichés but I doubt it. However, when the ratio is 90-10 happy endings, there will be no clichés.



Justin You're right. We shouldn't settle for 50-50 either. I was answering Mrs Vertigo's statement about how lesbian portrayals have improved by saying that I won't personally acknowledge improvement until we get 50-50. However, I won't be satisfied till it's 90-10 happy vs tragic.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Mrs Vertigo]

justin, erm...



*tries to do her own math*







Erm...

I love my long lost Jewish little-potato twin. In a prison way.

[pigduck]

I'm studying both films at the moment - Kissing Jessica Stein and Lost and Delirious and one more, Butterfly Kiss -



goodness, I think it's just the heterosexual ideals that we know that structures cinema - so therefore, even when we watch a film we tend to think in a heterosexual kind of way - or a masculine point of view - and thus, in this way, cinema cannot allow women to be together in the end - it's just not allowed because cinema, if we take it as a representation of life, cannot accept homosexual relationships - it's sad... especially lesbian ones...



man you guys are so onto it though - u guys seem so knowledgable.. I had to read up on all this lesbian stuff -



but i really really really really really loved Lost and Delirious - only because it tried to tell the spectators that "Love is" and that the relationship is love and how can you classify what sort of love it is? And to see Tori just run off made me sad because she was conforming to society... and i suppose that's how we are at some point and with paulie she, having lost her mother ... or given away as a baby and desires her mother then latches herself onto tori but as tori pulls away, paulie is left with nothing - what she's trying to do is really trying to regain the "mother" figure in her life - it's really strange that I would pick up on this but it's quite obvious... because of the sculptor of the mother and child at the beginning and also, how they talk about writing letters to their mothers and when she receives the letter from the agency or whatever telling her her mother doesn't want to talk to her, it triggers the final moment where she wants to try and regain Tori.. ... in a way it's for herself...it's sad though - 'cos she comes to the heterosexual viewpoint that lesbians have to be portrayed as hysterical - that love cannot be anything else but sex and desire in the heterosexual viewpoint - even her character is seen as transgressive ..



i suppose all three girls deal the loss of the mother differently.. i love the show though - just because it's so different from all the usual american teen flicks we get thrown into...



i thought the Lady Macbeth thing was a great touch - unsex me... it's trying to go against the norms - trying to say that love is and that's all it is ... you can't box it up or say whatever yet... the ending fails -- which is sad but i suppose it's got to succumb to the hollywood ideal that most homosexuals shown on tv either end up in some tragic way, or are laughed at ... or pitied.. and with paulie i suppose we pity her and she does become a tragic figure like in most shakespearean plays...



i dunno - it had a feminist approach but yet... i loved it ...



as for butterfly kiss - shows this psychopath killer and it's not the best representation of lesbianism - very grotesque and just downright monstrous - ... very narcissistic too



and finally kissing jessica stein - the film that had so much potential yet failed again ... the reason? because it shows that lesbian love is not real - it's just experimentation .. how sad.. and when jessica goes back to men - i mean, that's awful ! and it just shows that lesbians don't love each other - it's all about sex and desire and once u lose it, u can't love - love equates to sex here... weird...



and when jessica finally finds fulfillment... she therefore loses desire - it's sort of sad to think that even in this show, women can't be lovers - it's just not right - i mean to make it more interesting, they didn't need Josh in it... but he was there just to make the film a lot easier for heterosexual viewers to watch - just because ... at least it's not all about lesbianism - even then, the stereotypes kick in - which i thought was funny-



i realised the only way to make women seem sensitive is to make them quote quotes... i don't quote quotes... dear dear.. am I a sensitive woman? guess not...



I loved how the Jessica and Helen kept noticing each other's dress styles - that was hilarious and also, i liked how ... the whole "so who do you call when you're sick?" thing ... to show that women care for each other... hahah that men are brutal and uncaring... haaa.. i don't know...that showed women in a positive light i thought - it showed the slight difference maybe in a relationship



okay i'm making that up - just liked it



great films - LOVE IS !

[BigGayBear]

Ok, let's weigh it up...



Though I've not seen Lost and Delirious, I have seen But I'm a Cheerleader, The Incredibly True Adventure of 2 Girls In Love, Bound, Chasing Amy, Kissing Jessica Stein, Gia, and If These Walls Could Talk 2.



So, that's 7 films, 9 if I break down If These Walls Could Talk 2.

2 of these films end in the girl ending up with a guy.

1 deals with pregnancy issues, so they're a tight couple anyways.

2 of which one of them dies, (Ok, so one is dealing more with drug issues, and the other one is an age thing).

4 of which have a happy 'YAY we love each other' ending, One of which has an ending which I simply just don't get, but, YAY, they love each other.



Ok, so I'm really not helping the point at all. OK! Higher Learning, which just pretty much ended in a blood bath, and I can't remember how the bi characters were affected.



Once upon a time, I did have a point. But at 2 am I can't really remember what it was, but I've already typed so much, and I don't wanna just delete it all, so I'm gonna post. Hah. And, yeah ok so this is nothing to do with Lost and Delirious, but I figured this had turned into another cliche discussion anyways. Damn it. When I remember my point I'm gonna come back here...



Al *confused*

~Cuteness is more than just a TeddyBear thing~

[sam7777]

Quote:

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the ending fails -- which is sad but i suppose it's got to succumb to the hollywood ideal that most homosexuals shown on tv either end up in some tragic way, or are laughed at ... or pitied..

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Pigduck: Welcome!! I loved "Lost and Delirous" too until the end and as you say Hollywood is stuck on giving us tragic and pitiful ending for gays.



I rented "Lost and Delirous" around the time that Buffy aired Tara's death and gave us the dead lesbian cliche. I am simply sick of watching tragic lesbians so I am boycotting such until Hollywood gives us happy and sad gay/lesbian relationships in the same proportion as heterosexual ones. Then we will have equality if only on the screen. Why settle for less?

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Hyo Shin]

Ahem... L&D is not a Hollywood movie. It's a Canadian movie. I'm not sure if it is a mainstream one.

[sam7777]

Hyo Shin: OK. "Lost and Delirious" is a canadian movie that has carried on the Hollywood tradition of giving us tragic and pitiful ending for gays.



We are preparing to see a new fight on gay marriage and with every tragic and pathetic gay relationship on screen, I feel we lose the PR battle. L&D is for me like W/T a good gay portrayal with a cliched ending that took much of what I like out of it.



ETA:

Quote:

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(and in the book both girls survive.)

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Thanks Dekalog! I really had no idea about the book and this is more reason that there was no need for Paulie to die.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 11/18/03 3:21 pm

[dekalog]

Xita said "It really made me feel like I'd gone back in time and was watching the children's hour. So depressing and old fashioned".



There is a good reason for this. This film is based on a novel by Susan Swan called "The Wives of Bath" - ("A darkly humourous story involving a murder in a girls’ boarding school in the 1960’s. Neither Mouse Bradford nor Paulie Sykes wants to grow up into a woman; Paulie forces Mouse through a series of tests to prove her manliness, which eventually go too far. Shortlisted for the Guardian Fiction Award, Shortlisted for the Trillium Award. Recently selected as one of the best novels of the ‘90’s in US Reader’s Guide compiled by McFarland & Co. Now a film – – based on the bestselling novel, directed by Lea Pool and starring Piper Perabo, Jessica Pare and Mischa Barton".)



You are right the film adaptation sucked because they tried to move it into the current day where the living situation of those dealing with issues of sexual identity and sexuality are not what they were in the fifties. Although the book is still troublesome it does pack a whollop in many areas - especially in challenging sex roles (and in the book both girls survive.)



At the time the film was being shot I read quite a few articles about the process of adapting the book. It went through quite the process and this film - like many others dealing with lesbian issues could have been so much better if the people involved believed in the ISSUES that were originally addressed instead of trying to make a commercialized product for the masses.



so sam it is actually a canadian movie that has been bought out by the Hollywood tradition (and financial backing) of giving us tragic and pitiful ending for gays to appeal to a broader audience and to maximize the visual assets of the main characters to appeal to men and boys and to erase any issues that require any kind of deeper thinking.



Sorry about the length of the post - just as a Canadian filmmaker who followed the butchery of this and many other artistic endevours as a means of making commercial product it makes me sad that we have so little to watch in terms of REAL lesbian content. I guess that is why I keep repeating at every opportunity to support local independent artists (esp. Lesbian Artists). End of Rant - Sorry Again.



ETA - Lea Pool btw is a exceptional director in spite of how this all turned out. To truly see her at her best see some of her French Language films (well worth the subtitles if you don't speak French). How she deals with issues of sexuality in a film like Emporte-Moi is more representative of her work.

Edited by: dekalog at: 11/18/03 12:23 pm

[Hyo Shin]

"Anne Trister" is another wonderful lesbian movie by Lea Pool. And its ending is quite hopeful.



She also made a short film called "Rispondetemi" and it included a beautifully drawn lesbian relationship. But the ending is tragic. :-) It's a part of "Montr?l vu par..."



Both films are autobiographical. She is openly bisexual.



Problem is... I mean, L&D's ending is not just a cliche. Yes, you can read it as a cliche. But it is also a part of an artist's journey. You have to see both parts. Pool is a moody and dark person. Most of her movies are quite gloomy. Her darkest movie is La Demoiselle sauvage and it is about a straight relationship.



Susan Swan liked the script but didn't like the modern setting. Actually I think movie's ending is better. The orginal ending is too gruesome.

Edited by: Hyo Shin at: 11/19/03 5:25 am

[dekalog]

Actually it wasn't just the modern setting that bothered her. In the end when the press releases came out for the film she went along with the party line, but during the actual process she was also quite upset about the lack of her original story in the final film.



L & D is significantly different from the original novel - the second most notable part being the shifting of the story to the present day. The most significant change however is that in the novel Paulie considered herself male - the story was steeped in sexual identity issues. These issues in the film are all but swept away. In there place is a basic dealing with your sexuality story.



The other thing is that while the story does get dark it still has a more hopeful tone - both girls survive and Tory stays true to Paulie in the end - visiting her at the detention centre. The novel is original and full of ghostly imagery (and a ghost) while the film adaptation takes the most accessible and easily digestible bits and turns them into a marketable film.



Following the creation of this film - you sensed a growing sense of dread as more and more pieces where chipped away. Telefilm and the powers that be in Canadian film are more than willing to sell out if they feel they can make a film more marketable. I truly feel that if funding bodies had backed off more - this could have been a much better film.