Let's Talk About . . . Porn

[Gatito Grande]

[Mods: I hope you'll let this thread fly, as it's a subject of entertainment I'd really like to discuss: the issues around it, what makes for "good porn"---not so much what we're actually seeing (in a clinical sense) in it. Feel free to change it to "Let's Talk About Erotica" if the word "porn" could cause problems. And should Kittens under 17 be told to skidaddle? Not my call. ]



OK, I was reading my lil' monthly email blurb I get from Good Vibrations, the adult toy store (GG the Perv's on the mailing list? I know you're all shocked, shocked! ). Therein, I read the following:

Quote:

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In About a Woman (VHS/DVD $39.95), Devinn Lane stars as a female executive who wants to hire Jessica Drake as her new assistant -- but Drake declines based on the company's "morality clause" against same-sex relationships.

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"My god," I thought, "that sounds like it could be a blurb for an Uber Xena fanfic." So, oughta curiosity, I clicked on the link.



"But GG, don't you get it: this is porn! A smut-fest!" . . . all my Puritanical 'tudes were back (and a bunch of Stereotypical Angry Feminist ones as well).



The truth of the matter is, I just don't know how I feel about porn. Do its performers really consent, or is it exploitation (of exhibitionist tendencies, if not worse---like substance-abuse)? Can something truly be said to be "lesbian porn" (or erotica) if you suspect its very creation is predicated on all the male wankers who will buy it? Is there really a difference between lesbian porn made (directed, produced) by lesbians and/or bisexual women, versus that made by men? If so, how? (Are there issues of "what a lesbian looks like" . . . as was discussed on The L-Word Thread?)



What makes an erotic movie porn? (I was watching Desert Hearts again just the other day, and I certainly don't consider that porn, though it depicts sex between two actors who are shown bare-breasted). Full frontal? Genitalia close-ups?



I welcome Kitten opinions about this subject(s), whether one has "consumed" porn (or erotica, if you perceive a difference) or not. Do you have any ethical criteria in making a purchase ("I won't go there," metaphorically speaking)? Are there certain brand names, or directors, of whom one can confidentally state "S/he does not exploit"? Or is it just simple aesthetic preferences (and, if you don't mind telling us, what are they)?



Finally, who/what is HOT???



GG Natch', I'm still too poor to do any "consuming" anyway. But that About a Woman title still does sound quite appealing . . . and I can always fantasize (about purchasing/viewing it)! Out

[maudmac]

This thread flies just fine.



I'm quite fond of porn myself. Sex, in general, is exciting. I don't make much of a distinction between watching people have sex on my TV screen and fantasizing about people having sex.



And I lack the Puritanical 'tudes, but I am often quite full of the Angry Feminist ones, so I do feel some ambivalence about quite a lot of porn. On the other hand, I also enjoy being able to take my Angry Feminist hat off sometimes and just enjoy some serious hardcore fucking.



I find a lot of porn to be very annoying. There are the larger issues, like the prevalence of "lesbians" in porn intended for a straight male audience, which, if taken at face value, would lead one to believe there's no such thing as a lesbian, only women who just haven't found the right cock yet. And, okay, no lesbian puts fingers with nails THAT long inside another woman unless she wishes her harm. Furthermore, I imagine it's a lot less common than porn would have us believe for lesbians to shave their pubic hair and have sex while wearing stockings and high heels. But I digress...



Besides those larger issues, I find many of the smaller details very annoying. There seems to be some compulsion among some porn actors to hissssss during sex. Hate that. I also hate the horrible whining-as-if-in-pain. Especially because...um...dude, it ain't that big. I don't equate whining with pleasure, though it seems to be intended that way by the porn industry.



I also get no joy from the money shot. That's pretty gross to me, especially if she acts like it's manna from the heavens, and it kinda kills the mood if I don't know it's...(wait for it)...coming.



I just like to see people fucking, and fucking like they love to fuck. If it looks real to me, and less like a performance, it's much, much hotter (and more effective).



I'm especially fond of gay male porn. Because that's just solid, non-stop, hardcore fucking and that's what I want from porn. Lesbian porn (made by lesbians, for lesbians)...there's so little of it, unfortunately, there really isn't much to say about it. But, yes, it is different from man-made porn, at least what I've seen. It's different if for no other reason than the fact that it doesn't end with a male triumphing over the "lesbians" and spraying spooge all over them, which "lesbians" seem to looooove. I cannot roll my eyes hard enough about that issue. Also, the women in lesbian-made porn are a lot more likely not to look like they just stepped off an episode of The L Word. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of your personal taste.



I'd say that a film needs to be more graphic than Desert Hearts to be porn. I would say I probably don't need to have those gynecological close-ups that hardcore porn requires to consider it porn, but it needs more than breasts.



I can't stand softcore porn. What's the point? It's not a good movie on its own and the sex is horrible and boring. I think softcore is for 14-year-old boys who've never seen boobs before and/or for prudes or the uninitiated who've never seen porn before and would combust if they saw five seconds of hardcore. For some people, hardcore porn is something you kind of need to be eased into and softcore might be good for that.



I perceive a big difference between erotica and porn. Something like the difference between "making love" and "fucking." This doesn't mean that erotica necessarily always depicts love-making while porn always depicts fucking. It is only to say that there's a difference and you just kind of recognize it when you see it, just like you can (hopefully) tell when someone is making love to you as opposed to fucking you, or you to them.



Ethical criteria? Of course. There's a whole lot of porn I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, but fortunately it's also tremendously illegal, so I'm not likely to stumble across it for sale at the sex store. (Online, though, it's a bit different, it seems. It's pretty easy to stumble innocently over something truly horrifying.) You really can't go wrong with what Good Vibrations sells; no chance at all that you'll find the really scary stuff there. (It's a really good company, too, and I've bought lots of stuff from them over the years.)



Who/what is hot? My ultimate dream porn would involve a whole lot of drag queens and kings fucking like animals. I love a good genderfuck and there doesn't seem to be much of that kind of porn out there, that I've come across at least. I make do with Brazilian shemale porn, but it's not the same thing.



Heh, GG, and you call yourself a perv?



(There's plenty of free porn online, you know?)

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i wasn't sniffing your spicy brains

[Big Dummy]

Wow. What a topic.



I like porn. Really, what I like about it is watching women get off, and I mean actually get off, like they're totally enjoying it. I hate the kind of videos where it's obvious that they've laid a soundtrack over it and the actress is clearly not even wet or anything (Hello, the spitting thing? Yuck!). And the nails drive me batty too, cause I don't know of many women who would take that. Seriously.



That being said, I'm also not a huge fan of the extreme close-up. I like it to have just a little mystique; not soft-core, but not a gynecological exam either.



Finally, and this is completely un-PC (but some would say this topic is too, so I'm going for it)...



I like movies where the actresses are hot. Like "fajitas to the table on a sizzling platter" hot, not "oh, I might have seen her at the local bar" hot. Just because, for me, it's all about fantasy.



My two cents.

[WebWarlock]

Hmmm...the hours I have spent watching porn.



I enjoy porn I really do. There has always been something about watching two (or more) people having sex that has always appealed to me. Thank goodness I married someone that enjoys it as much as I do. (A lot of my guy friend's wives don't let them watch porn or don't like it themselves).



Somethings in porn I just don't get tho. I don't get the spitting either. Gang bangs are just boring, so are bukkake films.



Now who do I like?



Well Ginger Lynn will always hold a special place in my heart cause she was in the first porn I ever saw. I have enjoyed watching Aja, Brianna Lee, Sarah Jane Hamilton and Flame (hmmm redheads), Tara Monroe (who I met once), Victoria Paris (saw her at a club), thought Heather Hunter was the hottest thing ever for a while, and really had this thing for Fallon back in the late 80s.



But my all time favorite was Nadia Nyce. She was this England-born, Indian girl that only did a handful of movies back in the early 90s. She was hot. Not that she did a lot, she just looked great and had great accent. She only appeared in about 50 movies, and all with the same guy (not her boyfriend, just the guy that discovered her) and then she was gone.



Directors. Well I like Micheal Ninn cause his stuff is always visually appealing and often has a good plot (really!) to go with it. I hate to say it but I like Ed Powers. Yes he is a washed up little troll, but he doesn't (or at least he didn't) degrade the women and always got people that looked liek they wanted to have fun.



The fact that no one has beaten the shit out of Max Hardcore is beyond me. This guy is a blight on the planet. He is everything that you should hate about a pornographer and then more. He is slime. Worse than slime really. Avoid his films at all costs.



More when I think about it.



Maybe I watch too much porn....



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

Me: I think I'll have a mid-life crisis and bring home a little red convertible Vette.

My wife: Fine, as long as you don't bring home some little red-head.

[Still Waters Run Deep]

Hmmm Porn, Yup I like it hard and wild, and so does my g/f.



I'd even go so far as to say she likes it more than me and on several levels so to speak.



I'm ambivalent about some aspects of porn and other areas are beyond the pale, I suppose I would encapsulate it as 'Whatever two or more consenting adults can get up to is OK by me, even if it dont float my boat'... bit like my attitude to sex generally I suppose.



Does it objectify and dominate women? .. yes. Does it liberate them also?.... yes



In a way Porn is almost a metaphor for real life. It's all there: the good, the bad, the ugly and even the prudish [soft core].



It might corrupt the morals of the young, but most are only too keen to be corrupted methinks.



I think it's called growing up, and making your own mind up.

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love and kisses

Still Waters



"just an old, saggy cloth cat. Baggy, and a bit loose at the seams, but Emily loved him"

[thx1123]

I like erotica.i am not into porn.My belief is what is erotica and what is porn is highly subjective.



I don't watch any film above an R rating becuase porn or erotica with females does not turn me on and so little of it had anything to offer besides sex.. so I don't get a lot of video erotica but I love erotic art.I don't care if it is male or female pin up,m/m,f/f, m/f I like the celebration of the beauty of human sexuality and the body.



my boyfriend is trying to get me to watch gay porn.



I guess i will give it a try.



Though lately we could do out own movie if we are so inclined.



Tabby

[Spikeizmine87]

I like this thread...



Ok so i like porn...im not really into alot of the straight porn...cause some of the stuff they do is just....weird...i like the lesbian porn cause, well, it teaches me alot. Yes so i like porn...who doesnt...

-Rose

How can I tell you I love you without the fear of your rejection?



Im so in love and its hurting.

[thx1123]

Quote:

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Yes so i like porn...who doesnt...

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Isn't that part of the problem.too many of the leaders in the movement to destroy porn do it not becuase they hate it,but becuase they love it and that fact makes them feel guilty.



Tabby

[The Angry Lion]

what took you so long AL?



I like porn bunches, and yes primarily girl on girl porn even tho i know its made for straight guys, sumtimes its very good regardless of that , actually I saw one recently called Les perversion 2, the first scene was great, the girls were really getting in to the kissing, not just jumping in.

What annoys me is for the most part when the girls look at the camera, oh yeah i dont really care for the money shot either.

Porn is actually quite diverse, and you can have everything from the Penthouse Zodiac Special (taurus was the hottest in my opinion) up to the educational Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women. by Tristan Taormino.



My favourite stars include Brittany Sky, Aurora Snow (shes cute and a waitress I know looks like her :O ) Jenteal, Jenna Jameson, Alex Taylor (she has one of the tastiest, um i wont finish this description ) oh yeah alex was an ex beauty queen and she lampooned how she was disqualified from the pageant realm in a porno



I dont like the whole erotica, porno divide, it seems to me to be a way to say 'I'm not sexually repressed I like erotica, but porn is evil!'

As for girls who look like the girls from the L word, Id love to see Jennifer beals and Laurell Holloman going at it hardcore

My Country is the World. My Coutrymen Mankind-Thomas Paine

[WebWarlock]

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Aurora Snow (shes cute and a waitress I know looks like her

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Funny, cause I dislike Aurora Snow for almost the exact same reason, she reminds me of someone I know.



Which brings me around to one of my porn pet peeves, women who leave their high heeled shoes on during the action scenes. Nearly every movie I have seen with Aurora Snow she does this. I am not a foot fetish guy by any means, but come on.



I don't care for the looking right at the camera thing either, unless it is an amature deal.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

Me: I think I'll have a mid-life crisis and bring home a little red convertible Vette.

My wife: Fine, as long as you don't bring home some little red-head.

[The Angry Lion]

oh the shoe thing, I forgot about that, ugh although I forgive Aurora

My Country is the World. My Coutrymen Mankind-Thomas Paine

[WebWarlock]

Another one I forgot, a newer girl.



She goes by Andrea Spinks or Nadia. Short dark hair, english, looks like she could have some mixed heritige so she has a very exotic look. Actually she looks like a pixie.



There are some pics and lists of her films at www.bgafd.co.uk/actresses...p/id/a0061 be warned, not a work/school safe link.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

Me: I think I'll have a mid-life crisis and bring home a little red convertible Vette.

My wife: Fine, as long as you don't bring home some little red-head.

Edited by: WebWarlock at: 8/12/04 6:49 am

[dynarb]

Oh now...this is an odd topic that I did not expect to stumble across. Hmmm, porn. I could do with or without it. I've seen some. I hate the...what do you call it...the money shot? Yuck, barf, blech.



**firmly tells stomach to retain breakfast**



I can't stand male/male or male/female porn mostly because of that very thing...and baaaaad acting. The first time I saw porn of this type, I honestly did get violently sick. I was jeered at, made fun of because of it, but I didn't care. To me that has got to be one of the grossest things I had ever observed.



I agree that porn should be what it is, hardcore fucking for the fuck of it. No more, no less.



Erotica totally different to me. There are some very good movies out there that would be considered erotica that have no real fucking at all. Erotica is for titilating the senses and raising expectations...arousing you but not fulfilling you. That is erotica. Let your imgination fill in the blanks.



Desert Hearts is not porn by any means. We see much worse exposure and more touchy/feeling in todays soap operas. I don't even watch them and I know this much.



Queer as Folk to me ranks just above porn with it's near graphic displays of affection.



As for lesbian porn, get rid of the high heels, the long nails and the sheer hose. No guys for the them to moon over...'cuz hello? They are supposed to be lesbians. Guys omitted. Let them be real and act real. No skipping from the first somewhat real kiss to the dubbed fake whimpering action. What happened in between? Oh, and the background music? Gimme a break. Be original. I have yet to see decent lesbian porn.



As for the porn stars...I know that several have used this medium as a stepping block to boost their career into what they really want. Singing/acting. Make money, save, get out and get a real life. The interesting things you learn on late night HBO - which I no longer have.



Dyna

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Tara: You think you know. What's to come. What you are. You haven't even begun."

- Restless



Amber Benson Accolade

[southernworm]

What can I say, I love porn. Mostly lesbian porn and threesomes. Not gangbangs. For what ever reason, I enjoy watching threesomes with two women and maybe a man or three women. There are some good ones out there although they are usually hard to find. I have watched male/male porn before, but I have always found anal painful to look at so I would usually exit the room when ever my girlfriend would watch it.



Like most people, I love hard fucking. Not those films where the women look like they have never enjoyed touching themselves, let alone another woman. But real sounds, real body movements (not the quick jerks and twitching), just something real. Something I can imagine being shot in my own bedroom.



As for erotica, I'd rather read it than watch it. I don't get any satisfaction unless there's some really good physical contact going on. Not soft touches and quiet moans, I can watch soap operas for that.



When ever I watch porn, there are always the usual turn offs:



I hate extreme close-ups and the "money-shot". I just turn away during that part.



Also, I'm very turned off by women who look like they have barely escaped puberty. Not that I like them extremely old, I just don't want them looking like they have just graduated from baby formula. 21-35 is about right.



I don't like the cheesy "jazz" they play in most films. But I very much enjoy audio. Even if some of it is faked, I would at least like to pretend that someone's enjoying it without having to hear the background music.



Long nails (ouch), spiked heels (where does that go) and completely shaved ... (you get the point) are also definite turn offs.





SW

Edited by: southernworm at: 8/21/04 10:47 am

[Gatito Grande]

Alright, coming (ahem) back to this thread I started:





Let me betray some total ignorance (there's a shocker! ). "Hard fucking": what, in a porn context, defines fucking as "hard"? How fast they're breathing? Velocity of . . . something or other? (I'm thinking pelvic thrusts. But what---excepting w/ a strap-on---in lesbian porn?) Absence of sweet nothings? (ala, the couple---or however many!---just begins by taking clothes off and getting it on?) How much/how loud screaming and grunting occurs? (So easily faked!)



As you can see, I'm really just shooting (don't I wish! ) in the dark here.



GG My only real experience w/ Classic Porn is a 15 minute compilation "demo" tape that the ex got through buying a couple of magazines from "Adam&Eve." There are 3 scenes: a girl/girl encounter which turns into a girl/boy encounter , a woman whacking off in the bathtub (really fake . . . and I believe she has long nails ), and a 4-person het orgy scene. The last at least has some historic (!) value, as it features Mr. Ugly himself, Ron Jeremy (w/ his Long-but-Wobbly), and Peter North (of the supposed "Two Prostate" fame) performing the money shot, natch. I don't think I would count anything in this tape as "hard" (esp. not RJ! ), except perhaps "hard to stay awake." Out



ETA: And is "hard fucking" as HOT as women's beach volleyball?

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 8/25/04 6:29 pm

[WebWarlock]

ah come on, at least Ron Jeremy has something that most porn stars lack, personality.



And thanks to the miracle of Viagra, Ron will be around a long time. Hmmm...must write nasty letter to Pfizer.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

Talent on loan from Cthulhu

[Still Waters Run Deep]

Quote:

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at least Ron Jeremy has something that most porn stars lack, personality.

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LOL and not forgetting, of course - fur

-----------------------------------

love and kisses

Still Waters



"just an old, saggy cloth cat. Baggy, and a bit loose at the seams, but Emily loved him"