Other Lesbians in the Media

[Warduke]

Thanks for the pics Garfield, that is really cool

_________________________

The Bell Tolls For Thee

[xita]

That's great Garfield. You dutch are so liberal

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[kukalaka]

I watched "8 Women" today. It's a beautiful French movie about 8 women being stuck in a house after the only man has been killed. There's comedy, music and the crime, of course, and I knew about all of this.



I didn't know it also has Catherine Deneuve and Fanny Ardant kissing. I was with my mom and trying very hard not to do too much of this

[concrete]

Oh, thank you, Garfield! Seems like I have to start watching this show They do look rather cute together, well, not W/T cute, but still....

It's not so much that I'm always right, it's just that I'm never wrong
Time cannot erase.....the memory of your face

[semiramis]

While I completely agree with the comments made by maudmac, I have to say that if I had been exposed to a group like this during my teenage years, things would have been a WHOLE lot clearer to me..I can't remember a single lesbian role model during the late 70's/early 80's that had any relevance at all to me as a terribly girly teenager with very troubling feelings about Brooke Shields...All I could find to read was "Well of Loneliness" and that sure didn't help...

So while they certainly aren't brilliant role models, and the whole scenario seems scary, if one of their teenage girl fans learns to accept and understand her feelings for another girl, is that all bad?

[BFR from Paris]

How about Fanny and Althea from "Stripmall"?

This show is so dumb and trashy, but it cracks me up!

[kukalaka]

DrG: I finally got a hold on "Fucking Amal" and you're right. It's phantastic. Especially the scene you mentioned.



Still trying to get "When Night is Falling"...

--

Do Vulcans ever lighten up? Do you ever have fun? - At regular intervals.

[maudmac]

semiramis, I hear you. I was looking at the whole situation from the perspective of a woman who has long been at peace with her sexuality. And from that perspective, I just see exploitation, something engineered solely to titillate.



It never occurred to me how a girl or young woman who's questioning her sexuality might perceive them. She might very well look at them and say, "I'm not alone!" or "It's okay to like girls," or some such thing. Without the time and distance many of us have from the questioning/doubt, that girl may look up to them and see positive role models, especially since they are much closer to her age than most of the other women who could be role models for her, like Ellen, Rosie, Martina, Melissa Etheridge, Indigo Girls, etc. Nevermind women like Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon or Ruth Ellis; she isn't likely to even know who they are.



If TATU helps young women, yes, that's a good thing. But it's still sad in so many ways. Sad that they are some mass-produced product, designed by an older man who put them together only for their marketability, and not the "real thing," like Indigo Girls, for example.



It's also sad that young/questioning GLBT folks have so few places to turn to see any depictions of themselves at all, much less positive ones.



It's complicated, but you're right that TATU may do some good, somewhere, for someone. I just hope that those girls and young women will soon find better, more positive role models. If TATU can be their jumping off point, that's great.

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I bring pie scented cleaner!--- weebl

[semiramis]

To maudmac

TATU are definitely exploitation and titillation, but like I said, there is always the possibility theat a questioning schoolgirl will see only that they may not be alone. For myself in the late 70's, early 80's, there was no one I could identify with, and even today there aren't very many femme role models for young girly lesbians. Of course, a role model is a role model is a role model (as Gertrude Stein would say), but for myself, I spent years being convinced that I couldn't really be a lesbian because I hated sport and loved lipstick.......sometimes I'm just not very bright

[JJtheCool]

Since I took Russian for two years in college, curiosity got the best of me when this group was mentioned and I went to their sites. Hard to believe I can still phonetically say the words after 10 years away from the language, even if I don't understand most of them.



On to the sites themselves; they were, as Mr. Spock would say, fascinating. Many, many, many, MANY pics of them being affectionate. They certainly seem to, ahem, enjoy each other's company.



The official site had a link to the English-language site: www.tatugirls.com. It includes the lyrics and the video for "All The Things She Said". Saw the vid, or as much of it as I could what w/ only a 56K modem, and let me tell you, there's more kissing in there than the 2 1/2 years of Willow and Tara.......and it was less than 4 minutes long.



I actually liked the song myself: rock-driven electronica, sure beats a lot of what's on pop radio. Although the girls do need to work a bit on their singing. Still the video's worth watching, and since I'll never be able to afford cable again in my lifetime, might as well watch it while I have the chance.

JJtheCool

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*Sigh*

[shadowomyn]

Well, I couldn't resist the temptation to check out the video for myself. I liked it, their voices aren't very strong, but they aren't bad either. I imagine that it's difficult to sing in a different lanquage. And I liked the video itself.



edited because I really do know the difference between they're and their.

Edited by: shadowomyn at: 7/24/02 7:09:05 pm

[walker]

Umm, not really. Quite happy being a girly myself. Just thought I'd give a heads up for the UK kitties as it falls in to the T part of the boards GLBT focus. Make Me A Man is on tonight at 9pm on Channel 4. There has been a lot about transsexual rights in the media lately because of the European Courts decision to acknowledge that a British transsexual womans marriage should be recognised under law. This should be interesting to watch as I imagine it'll spell out more clearly exactly what rights transsexuals have under (I would assume) English law.



If you stay on Channel 4 at 11.30pm there is the delightfully titled Lesbian Love Stories. Don't know much about this one, looks like one of those Ibiza Uncovered things. It's about life on Sydney's gay scene.

Most things can be preserved in alcohol. Dignity, however, is not one of them.

[semiramis]

Oh, Walker, do give a review of that, I'd be very interested (seeing as I almost never go out in Sydney any more!)

[frogfear]

let me second that request Walker !



Don't get out much in Brisbane either....



**waves to fellow Aussie**

"It's all about emotional control"

[semiramis]

And a big wave back to you too frogfear

[frogfear]

well..I was beginning to think that I was the only soul on this little island of ours that drifted this far into W/T land.



you showed up in the nick of time semiramis.

BTW - I lived in NSW till I was about 19

"It's all about emotional control"

[walker]

semiramis and frogfear - I taped this show as I was out enjoying myself while it was on. Once I've watched it I will post my thoughts here. It is either good or has much nudity because my girlfriend, who saw it last night, wants to borrow my tape already.

Most things can be preserved in alcohol. Dignity, however, is not one of them.

[semiramis]

Well, I've been around for a while now, just not the chattiest cat in the whole world ; )

There are a couple of other Aussies floating around the board, but we must all be those strong silent Aussie types.......

Funny thing is, I grew up in QLD......Brisvegas to be exact.



And just to be on topic - looking forward to hearing about that tape Walker, you tell me about it, and I'll tell you how true it is.

[frogfear]

That would be great Walker - Thx!



Mardi Gra time in Sydney can be one wild ride - a plethera of visuals splendid even



Semiramis - I actually live about 25min north of Brisvegas

...to quote the white rabbit...curiouser and curiouser...

"It's all about emotional control"

[walker]

I finally got the chance to watch the tape today. It focusses on three women and their experiences on the Sydney scene. It was not quality television, the narration was awful.



They seemed to be in a lot of lesbian bars but only name checked a few. The programme portrayed Sydney as being crammed full of lusty lesbians everywhere you turned. The English girl who was followed said she prefered Australia to Blighty as it was easier to go up and talk to women in gay clubs over there. Phht, the woman clearly hasn't been up here to Glasgow. People will always talk to you in clubs. Even when you really, really want them to go away.



Most of the action took place in a lesbian strip club called Girlettes. They said that everyone goes there. Something to share with us frogfear and semiramis.



The next name check was the Bank Hotel. They went there for lesbian night and said it was the place to be seen and show off your girlfriend.



The last one I caught a name for was the Ice Box. Again more stripping here. Oh, and I'm not sure which club it was at but they did show a hot wet hooters contest. Personally I think they knicked the idea from Sassette.



So questions for Aussie kitties -

1) Is stripping cumpulsory at all lesbian clubs over there?

2) Why do people drink half pints instead of pints?

3) Are there many clique's on the scene over there or are all new comers welcomed with open arms?

4) Where did they miss?

5) Was this fair coverage or are you currently laughing your ass off?



Comments for Aussie kittens -

That's a very pert nation you have there. Not a saggy breast to be seen and trust me we saw many breasts. The scene there looked pretty good although the programme managed to fit in all the lesbian stereotypes - femme, butch, the whatdolesbiansbringonaseconddate-aremovalvan joke. They kind of focussed on the pub/club scene so I'm sure there's a lot they missed out. Or are you a nation of drunken lesbians with pert breasts?

Most things can be preserved in alcohol. Dignity, however, is not one of them.

[Guess]

Hey. I just remembered that I was watching TV the other day and I came across this movie called "The Truth About Jane". Has anyone seen it?

Thanks for telling me about this kiss in "8 women"... My mom was trying to force me to watch it with her the other day and now I'm not sure thats such a good idea ...besides, it's all in french and lately I've been having a problem with subtitles...I cant read them...i got used to not reading them so i could learn English faster and now that i dont need to read them, i can never keep up with them when I have to read them (god, that was pretty confusing).

Also, I thought of Xena and Gabrielle...has anyone mentioned them?probably...i might have missed it, because its 2 in the morning where i am and after reading 12 pages of posts...well anyway, i just thought I'd say it (again?)...

[Jennifer]

I think I've seen The Truth About Jane. Is that the one about the high school girl? With Stockard Channing and Ru Paul (out of drag)? If that's the one I'm thinking of, it's not too bad of a movie. For a made-for-television movie, that is.

Willow made a small fist and waved it at her (Tara), and the 2 grinned in that secret knowing way lovers ever did. It amazed him now, looking back upon it, that he had not realized sooner that Willow and Tara were more than merely friends. -Giles, "The Wisdom of War" Willow and Tara's Love
|| Jennifer's Journal

[Scoobiedoo]

Ok, as a resident Australian I'll try to answer walker's questions.



1) Is stripping cumpulsory at all lesbian clubs over there?

Lol...No. From my experience it only happens at select clubs and by select I mean, maybe one or two clubs per city. Perhaps the show you watched was just being a little sensationalistic.

2) Why do people drink half pints instead of pints?

Well, apart from the fact that we use the metric system we do drink pints as well as half pints. In melbourne, a half pint is called a Pot and a pint is still a Pint. I think in NSW they say Schooner or something like that. I think it also has to do with the fact that we drink quite strong beer over here. I'm not sure how it is compared to the UK, but I'm fairly certain that our light beer is equivalent to US heavy beer. To conclude... I really have no idea.

3) Are there many clique's on the scene over there or are all new comers welcomed with open arms?

Yes and no. It depends on how much of an extrovert you are. Of course there are cliques, and new comers are technically welcome, it's just a question of whether you feel welcome.

4) Where did they miss?

I'm not sure. I'm from Melbourne, not Sydney.

5) Was this fair coverage or are you currently laughing your ass off?

Well...yes, laughing, as usual. Long live Crocodile Dundee. But I think most people find it amusing when another country announces their take on your country. Although having pert breasts isn't really a bad rep.



Actually I think something else was probably better equipped to answer these questions. Oh well.



Have a goody.

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This is love

[frogfear]

LMAO is fair comment - actively engaging as I type.

As for Pert Boobs Walker, i'm gonna let my breasts answer that....

**looks expectantly at her boobs**



C'mon girls! ...(silence).....speak up!....(silence)...

Damn, they must be too far away for me to hear them..



Actually, my girls are fine thx - must be the reduced gravitational pull downunder....lol



Would still love to see that tape - sadly I never really ventured into the scene in Sydney whilst I was there. Life was just far to busy for me in my land of denial. Oh, yeah....then there was that pesky marriage thing....



But now in Brisbane with my head firmly out of my ass, and my nuptials are now as far behind me as poor Mr Bobbits need to be measured for trousers !

But I digress.....I have tripped back and forth to Syd a few times (once for the Madri Gras a few year back), and yes they can be a element of wariness to newcomers I found - initially. The culture is so diverse and accepting there though, if you are just little bit brave you'll find yourself having a whale of a time.



Brisbane is very much like a country town, about the size of a city (it is a city btw) so the genetic make up is very different to Syd. The zones of acceptance are far more reduced. I tend hang out at some of the coffee bars and pubs in Fortitude Valley when I go out.....and NO striping is so not compulsory - Although there was this one night......



Yep, Pints are available here although we prefer to non standardize our Malted Adult Beverages. Those who can hold their Alcohol tend to drind Schooners whilst those lesser mortals among uswho like to pretend to keep up, drink the far smaller Middie. I, am a self confessed Middie drink :0 Lesser mortal be damned !!



There are many misnomers about us Aussies, but the only thing you have to remember is that we just like everyone else....only better.

hehe





Tracy



ps...check out that Medal tally !!!

"It's all about emotional control"

[semiramis]

So questions for Aussie kitties -

1) Is stripping compulsory at all lesbian clubs over there?

Absolutely not. The strip club mentioned is called Gurlesque, and ran for maybe a year, once a month only. It attracted a vastly different crowd to the normal dyke venue, consisting of sex workers, raver girls, uni chicks, etc. Never seen so many other femmes in my life as at Gurlesque, never seen any of them again at any other club. Gurlesque has since closed, sadly. The Bank is heavily andro and butch and dominated by a pool playing clique. And the Ice Box, well I think that has closed since then, and I'm surprised that they found anyone drinking alcohol there, mostly it's water because the clientele tend to choose other (less legal) forms of intoxication.



2) Why do people drink half pints instead of pints?

We don't drink pints at all unless we are at an "Irish" pub, we drink schooners and middies. Pints aren't an Aussie thing, even though were were origingally colonised by Great Britain.



3) Are there many clique's on the scene over there or are all new comers welcomed with open arms?

It's Really cliquey, if you don't wear the uniform you can't play on the team. And the uniform is fairly strictly andro/butch. Femme is rare. Of course, having an accent would automatically increase someone's appeal here, so the experience of a British woman simply cannot be compared to the experience of a local. And walk up and talk to a stranger? Most unlikely.....it really just isn't that friendly.



4) Where did they miss?

Mardi Gras, largest Pride event in the world, bar none, all the lesbian sporting and social clubs, Rainbow Babies, lots of things, it isn't all about pubs and clubs by any means. Heck, I'm thinking of joining lesbian belly dancing.......



5) Was this fair coverage or are you currently laughing your ass off?

Laughing my head off really. All that focusing on pert breasts sounds like some straight man's wet dream.

The longer I live, the less I resemble the rest of humanity
Violet Trefusis

Edited by: semiramis at: 8/3/02 7:05:20 pm

[semiramis]

Ah frogfear, I know all about the land of denial and the pesky marriage thing! We should talk.........

The longer I live, the less I resemble the rest of humanity
Violet Trefusis

[Indygo]

Gotta concur with semiramis here! The Sydney lesbian scene has a uniform, and it is heavily andro/butch. Lesbians who don't fit that stereotype tend to avoid the pub or club scene. Hell, most lesbians I know avoid the scene altogether. And the usual six degrees of separation is reduced to two in this city it seems. Every woman you meet seems to have either dated someone you have, or knows someone who knows someone you dated.



I'm sure we have our share of perky breasts Dunno if that program over or underestimated the Sydney breast scene!



I was once threatened and stared at nastily for winning a game of pool in the Bank Hotel. After that I decided to forfeit the rest of the comp and went to sit in the corner...



That show seems like it missed one of the best ways to meet women in this town - sporting or cultural clubs. Bars are out, being sporty or creative is in. Go figure?



I guess the media doesn't know that much about us Aussies after all!



Indygo

[The Angry Lion]

has anyone mentioned Doctor T and the Women, Altman comes through with bucking the cliche and showing Kate Hudson and Liv Tyler running off with each other, instead of the swarthy handsome man



ps Im australian, since when do australians care about willow and tara, thought I was the only one...

[friskylez]

I dont have a clue what the "scene" is like in Australia, it just bothers me when "butch" is used in conjunction with stereotype...As if to say one is butch because that is what they think a lesbian is supposed to look like..I dont know a thing about butches in Australia, but the butches in the states LOVE femmes..



So if those folks you are talking about are dissing femmes, then they are not the real thing, they are pretend butches and have no clue what being butch is all about...They are people who are dressing the part because they want people to know they are gay...Which pisses me off cause butches are already misunderstood, we dont need people thinking that we are who we are because

we want to make a "statement"..



Butches are an eclectic group and there are varying degrees of "butchness"..

Being butch is not about how one dresses, its about your personality traits, persona whatever you want to call it....I dont "dress" butch, its more what the femmes here say is an "attitude"...i like to say its the "male persona" without the testosterone and male ego BS...



Its not even about wanting to perpetuate the "this is my little woman" stereotype and its not about playing a role...That works in some relationships, if thats how the couple is comfortable, but its not a requirement...A butch/femme relationship is just like any other, you usually end up with someone who you are comfortable with and who is comfortable with you..



I dont want to be a man, i like being a woman, dont wear suits and ties (although some butches do, thats how they are comfortable), i take bubble baths, cry during sad movies, am sensitive...Some femmes in the states would say im not "butch enough" for them, others like some on this board might well not date me cause of the misconceptions about being "butch" ...



Im uncomfortable and out of place in a dress and that has nothing to do with how i "grew up" which may be the case with some butches...I played with dolls when i was younger, i wore dresses all the way thru HS, but somehow i just didnt feel comfortable in them..Does that make me any less of a woman, no it does not, plenty of women dont wear dresses, but i doubt they would say they were "butch"...



Its the persona, the traits, being more in touch with ones male side than female side is the best way to put it i guess...Thats what makes me butch anyway..So if any of you femmes in Australia want to meet a "real" butch, we would love to have you (no pun intended)...................................visit

From Everythings Relative, .."the personal is political "

Edited by: friskylez  at: 8/4/02 8:02:58 am

[informationjunky]

Article about why female action heroes on TV, like Buffy, Xena, Sydney Bristow on Alias, that Witchblade woman, etc., are always heterosexual:



www.afterellen.com/tv/les...nhero.html



I for one would love to see Sydney on Alias come out...I know there's something going on with her and Francine!