The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

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Change the FAQ?
Yes 25%  25%  [ 29 ]
No 69%  69%  [ 82 ]
Yes but worded differently. 6%  6%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 118
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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:54 pm 
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6. Sassy Eggs
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Ok, this is my two cents worth...
First, thanks to Xita for canvassing for readers opinions. I like democracy.

Second, I vote no to opening the forum up to allow 'Other' characters as main or love interests for W/T. I'd be happy if you opened another forum like Pens for the purpose though, as I have read and enjoyed some great fanfic where W/T has (temporarily) had another love interest. I also think requiring a statement of whatever pairings are in the story is a good idea.

My reason for voting no? I found this forum early in 2004, along with a number of others. The others didn't have as strict rules governing what could be posted in terms of pairings etc, but the stories I always looked for were those featuring the W/T pairing. They are the characters that captured my heart. Some of those other sites have disappeared, or no longer have current postings (and I've read all their stories): Pens is the only one that has maintained any life.

Whether that is attributable to the W/T pairing or not, I wouldn't care to speculate. (I personally have found Pens the most welcoming, friendly and constructive forum, with a wealth of talented writers ready to help others, and it is to that that I attribute my continued connection.)

When you're on a good thing, stick to it.
thanks
Anne

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:41 pm 
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1. Blessed Wannabe

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:27 pm
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Hmmm, so I read through all the replies...twice [I skimmed the second time but you get the gist]

It was actually very informative, I did not know there was a JFK ban until now. It's rather sad though, I'm all for being a fan of W/T [Always will be] but I think the ban of a potentially good character seems rather unfortunate. I don't know the history of why the JFK ban came about though so....I don't remember that ban when I lurked on the kitten board back in the day.

Anyways, on topic...I really don't want to read Willow or Tara with anyone else. However, I wouldn't object to reading Willow or Tara becoming involve with someone else as long as it benefits/progress W/T's relationship in the long run. As long as W/T is the main objective right? I love angsty stories and if this opens storyline possibilities I'm all for it. I just don't want to read descriptions....hell I skim through all the steamy W/T scenes anyways....
>_>
<_<

Am I the only one that feels like a peeping tom reading W/T smut?

Either way I'm for whatever xita decides as long as I get my dose of W/T goodness. That is if the FAQ change is still in consideration.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:34 pm 
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3. Flaming O
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I voted no, and not because I don't like change, it's just this is a safe haven for the W/T fics and if the restrictions become looser, it's gonna just become a mess.

I don't go to ff.net for W/T fics, I come here.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:10 pm 
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6. Sassy Eggs

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 8:53 pm
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Location: Whitstable, UK
This is a Yellowstone for Willow/Tara fics...in some ways letting other fics in would be like letting people settle and build houses in Yellowstone. I woulden't mind having an extra forum added within the main forum for non W/T fics though.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:36 pm 
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23. Volumey Text

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:23 pm
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I think I can sit back and just view the Kitten then it sucks me back in

I voted. Anyone who has seen my opinions in other threads over the years that look to reform or ignore FAQ wouldn't need telling what I voted.

One thing I do agree with is that the polls 'closed' a little early. The position could still have been reversed though it was unlikely. However the fact that Xita had seen enough to make a decision was actually as much as was required. I've written this as an open topic though rather than simply reflecting my thanks at the decision. As I would've done prior to the decision.

The arguments have gone back and forth but there is one that stands out to me. This is the Kitten. If you're a fan of the show after SR. Cool. If you love the nameless-one and want to sing his praises. Cool. If you want Tara and Xander humping while Willow cheers them on and looks up new positions on the net... well, not cool but if you can write it well then good for you. But not here. That's the point.

This is the Kitten and - to be honest - I care less about the totality of the Kitten than I do about Pens because Pens was the core of my creativity, emotional investment and sense of self-worth for a VERY long time.

If you want to write anything at all then good for you, really. I will applaud and support anyone's urge to create as it's given me so much and - as a writer - you have to explore what you feel and not let yourself be fettered. But where you put it matters. Just because you write it does not mean you get to put it where you like. This is the Kitten and we're about T&W. Together. That's it. It's simple really.

Being unmoderated for a long time was entirely understandable - it's a miracle that we're well moderated again now - but it meant that so many people who didn't go through the 'bad old days' never had that prompt about what this place was. Not everyone (or even most) of those who were advocating a change are 'new' but my point here is actually that the period of little moderation proved what happens.

A lot slipped through on various boards and people just didn't understand why people were mad about it. And fiction is the hardest thing to mod. It has to be. It's big, it's irregular and it's so open to interpretation. In fairness to moderators I would never expect them to be able to do the job on a fiction board that is still as active as this one. Authors have to take responsibility and that means that they have to have some clarity and not grey areas. I believe the current FAQ has clarity and for the record it pre-dates anything about JFK or whoever. It wasn't founded in bitterness and hurt, it was founded in the fact that if you come here you do so for T&W. Not for T&W&O or whatever floats your boat.

And dare I ask what would happen if we changed FAQ and then we lost our mods again? Right now we can still police ourselves with comments if we need to. With a grey area FAQ and the old internet 'but I have freedom of speech' argument that ends up in every internet forum despite the fact that someone has to pay for it (Xita) then how long till we have crossovers where Harry and Willow are playing hide the wand? Sorry. No. And make no mistake that is what would become. There would be some good stories posted that weren't what many of us wanted to see, but many more would simply be excuses to have them have sex with other characters/fandoms or whatever because that's just how things work.

To my mind the only way to preserve what this board is based around is to keep the intent of FAQ intact.

Now, since my fic was mentioned I will reply to that to illustrate the point:

vampyregurl73 wrote:
I think as long as the principal rule of W/T being together, alive ( I can think of The Sidestep Chronicles where Willow is Vamp Willow for the majority of the first half, so she is technically dead) and in a relationship is honored, extraneous characters, seasons, etc. should be allowed for dramatic license.


(Edited to add: In NO way am I having a dig at vampyregurl73 using that quote. I'm only picking it up to show how the system can/did work bearing those very valid concerns in mind)

And this is a very good example. I agonised about this. It was early in the process but I had what I knew was a very good story I was working on (the story was good, not necessarily the writing) and I knew that it was pushing boundaries of FAQ. I never remained entirely happy the VW/T thing even though they were wonderful characters.

I clarified with Xita what should and should not happen. What was allowed and what wasn't. I told her what would broadly happen and she accepted it. To be specific Xita felt that VW was still Willow... I actually argued against my own story. This is why in Sidestep - though it's implied - VW/T NEVER have graphically shown sex. Ever. That might surprise those who think you may have read it, but that's the fact. I refused to go there even though many readers wanted to see it and other writers had definitely gone there with varying degrees of success/creepiness. And it was ALWAYS based around the fact that VW would become Willow once again. That VW was the only Willow that Tara had any access to and that there was no one else. That it was a story about the journey for them.

I was knocked back by Xita on another matter. I had a character who was obsessed with Tara and - unasked for - would've kissed her. That was disallowed. It hurt the scene in terms of how any writer would've ideally wanted to present it, but this is Pens and I respected that and made the change.

I personally disagreed with the allowing of post SR stories here but I respect the decision to allow them as stories that people who were hurt needed to write so they could bring Tara back. I could understand a therapeutic value then. I am probably less comfortable now with the dramatic reasons than I was then (since the therapy is less pressing now)... but I respect it and I understand there are some wonderful fics there.

Ironically the idea that 'we allow one thing so we should allow another' is exactly the reason we shouldn't because inevitably the line will creep or force another, later change of FAQ back. I don't see why.

Point 1 - you can always ask a moderator.

Point 2 - this is still Xita's house.

Point 3 - this is Pens and that means something. I think it means a lot that so many people have strong feelings after so long.

Once again I will encourage anyone - everyone - to write. Start with W/T if you love them - it worked for me I am writing novels now and looking to publication one day in the not too distant future. Pens gave me that. T/W gave me that. Take your writing where you need to. But don't expect to post anything on Pens simply because it has T/W in. Just what it's intended for.

Writers here have proven for nearly a decade that you don't need to involve other people or situations to produce wonderful stories. So the artistic argument holds about as much water for me as if somene said it was their right to express themselves that way (and no one did, I know which still surprises me given how often I see it elsewhere.)

But here it is, the internet is a scary/wonderful thing. You can make your own place to write, promote yourself in Google or find someone else who already did so and join that community. It doesn't need to be here.

Leave this one to be what it was intended to be. About the girls. Together.

And as other places faded away, what it came to be. Unique.

Katharyn

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If I wanted a little pussy, I've got my own to play with.

Chance in *Chance*
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Last edited by Katharyn on Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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WOW.. just WOW, Katharyn. Very well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:12 am 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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It feels a bit redundant after Kajun just said it, but I had to reiterate -

Katharyn -

Very, very well said. Kudos. I'm so happy there's writers like you on the board!

:peace

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:42 am 
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11. Fish in the Bowl
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Having been here through that very sad time it would be horrible to watch the W/T focus change. Once you open the door all types of relationships will follow.

Don't re-write a thing. Many lives have been changed by this board. It isn't only about the FIC, it is about a sense of community that was absent for so many people. The kitten created a safe place. W/T and Pens are a porthole to something bigger than any of the BTVS writers ever understood but Kittens understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering Changes to the FAQ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:48 pm 
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9. Gay Now
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OK, so this is probably long dead, voting closed and no-one will ever read this.
But I'm posting this for me as much as anyone.

I was pretty solidly in the "Open it up" camp.

i read through all the posts, though about all the points of view and nothing changed for me.

until i hit this:

Quote:
But here it is, the internet is a scary/wonderful thing. You can make your own place to write, promote yourself in Google or find someone else who already did so and join that community. It doesn't need to be here.

Leave this one to be what it was intended to be. About the girls. Together.

And as other places faded away, what it came to be. Unique.
Katharyn


And i realized that this isn't about me, it's not even about us. It's about them.

So let this place stay a sanctuary, a shrine, to love.
Willow and Tara.
True love.
Forever.

Walls do not always keep things in, they keep things out.
They protect.

So let our walls protect what is best in us.
From a harsh world.
So that one day, long from now, when Xita is gray-haired and the great-grand kids are playing at her feet.
We will still be here, telling tales of the best and truest love.
When blue eye met green.
And the sun rose.
And the world was changed for the better.



Because they give me hope.
And without them, without the love others bring,
I am desolate and lost.

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