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 Post subject: Music Trivia Scavenger Hunt.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:47 pm 
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10. Troll Hammer

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Hey there cool cat (that's a music name right? I don't know.)

Maybe you came here from the Songs that remind us of Willow and Tara Thread.
The music doesn't stop there.

As you browse through Inevitable you may find that each chapter has music lyrics adorning the top.

What do they mean? Why are they there?
I asked past Laragh this and here is her answer
past Laragh wrote:
The lyrics are just a summation of the feeling of the chapter. The whole song itself may be completely unconnected to the words but the individual lines are. These were originally envisioned to separate some chapters that had multiple parts but then I decided to add one for each chapter.

I do have a collection of the songs used. I keep a record because in each chapter I also slip at least one separate song lyric into the text. Sometimes this is an actual lyric sung by a character or in the background, sometimes it's in the prose or dialogue. So I have a record of all of those alongside the opening lyrics songs. I can supply whatever you need.

This means that there is a game to play. And by the end of this Fic Club you will know Laragh loves to play games.

While skimming through the chapters try to focus your attention on the song lyrics and where they are in the chapter.

Post your findings here and when Fic Club is over, Laragh will give us all the answers. (If I ask her nicely but for what's to come we will see how the waters settle.)

Music Fans go lyric scavenge!

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One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:56 pm 
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10. Troll Hammer

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Laragh wrote:
I recommend people just read the summary's instead of the fic, you'll laugh more. Dub has a way with bullet points :D :D

Thanks, but people please do read Inevitable, its kind of the point of all of this.

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One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms


Last edited by Dub on Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:00 am 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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Hey Dub it's really amazing how much work you put into this. That's all I can muster right now. Thanks.

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:06 am 
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I am honestly not entirely sure what to do with the fic club thing, but I adore Inevitable so wanted to chime in

Laragh: first, I hope you are doing ok, miss your presence!! For Inevitable, I know you said this was your long haul story, what prompted it? especially as far as tackling the angst because I know you are generally angst avoidant. I think Inevitable is my favorite coming out/ coming to terms with oneself stories

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:24 am 
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10. Troll Hammer

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Shirrey wrote:
I am honestly not entirely sure what to do with the fic club thing, but I adore Inevitable so wanted to chime in
Exactly this. Chime in with what you want to. can be a little, can be a lot. its just a group of people talking about a chosen story at the same time. and if the author is active we can interact and get some new insight to the story while they get valuable feedback.
Its a book club but for FanFic. So its also acceptable to get drunk on wine during the day and start to slag off the members who havent shown up, while talking about holiday plans. Hmm not sure book clubs are ever about the books.

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One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:16 pm 
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Laragh,

I joined this board back in 2009 after about 2 years of lurking. I still remember when you started posting your first fics, and how much joy they brought me then. I wish that I would have known back then how prolific you would become. If I had, then I might not have taken such a long hiatus from the board. I think that it is fair to say that you are the most prolific writer here on the board, and your stories have always managed to be so unique and wonderful in their own way. Inevitable is at the top of that sentiment right now, if only because I have not yet started Infinitely, which I will be soon. The way that you have grown and changed as a writer is absolutely amazing, and I am so happy that you continue to write these stories after all of these years. Your representation of both Willow and Tara, but especially Tara, has always astounded me and you have managed to outdo yourself here.

I knew that I was going to be in for a ride when I realized that I would need to take notes in order to give proper feedback on this story. Sadly, I lost all of the notes I had written before chapter 31 :crash . Is it sad that I sat for an hour and legitimately cried over it? Yeah probably, but then I learned of Dub's Fic Club covering this story and I felt like maybe I could some how salvage this piece of feedback through Dub's excellent use of bullet points. Beyond the hilarity that Dub always manages to pull out of any given situation, their bullet points do bring back memories of reading those initial chapters of the story. The memories that stick out the most to me when it comes to this fic is how surprised I was at the angst and how well done it was, the frustration with Willow - to the point that I would literally be reading the chapter and either muttering under my breath "Why Willow, Why?", Shouting "What the fuck are you doing?", or having to walk away because I was either too sad or too upset to want to be anywhere near expensive electronics, and feeling grateful that I did not have to wait for updates. As much as you broke my heart with these chapters, I pushed through because I knew all of it was for a reason.

The heartache that you managed to convey in this story brought me back to my younger years and how scary it was to come out to myself, to my best friend that I had a crush on, and experiencing the heartache that resulted from losing my first love (If only we all should be so lucky to meet our soulmates when we are so young). The last fic that I read before Inevitable that caused such visceral reactions in me was 'Neverland' by Easier Said. This is the strata that you have propelled yourself to with this lovely bit of writing. Even as I sit here with the intention of leaving substantive feedback, I find myself rambling because of how hard it is to put a quantitative and qualitative analysis on a Fic that seems to transcend both. As such, I need some more time to gather my thoughts and feel that it is best to lead with some questions.

-What Prompted you to write this story?
-Was it hard to write as much angst as was present in this story?
-How long did the planning for this story take?
-How hard was it to research locations that you had never been to and find things for both of them to do?

Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss this wonderful fic with us kittens

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:32 pm 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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Just want to let everyone know I am reading your words with heartfelt thanks and will reply properly tomorrow! :wtkiss

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Poll
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:56 pm 
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10. Troll Hammer

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A poll has opened up to see if there is an outright impactful line amongst the readers

Laragh writes excellent small lines which leave maximum impact.

Maybe you don't have just one quote that has an impact on you. Share your top ones over at the poll.

lets see if there's a correlation between our emotional blows provided by Laragh

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One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:44 am 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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shirrey wrote:
I am honestly not entirely sure what to do with the fic club thing, but I adore Inevitable so wanted to chime in

Laragh: first, I hope you are doing ok, miss your presence!! For Inevitable, I know you said this was your long haul story, what prompted it? especially as far as tackling the angst because I know you are generally angst avoidant. I think Inevitable is my favorite coming out/ coming to terms with oneself stories


Thanks, shirrey, I'm holding on! My surgery is in about 10 days and it's a 2-month recovery but I should be all good without additional treatment. I so appreciate your good wishes!

What prompted Inevitable, well there's a question :D Since forever I wanted to write a story where W and T knew each other from when they were little so that was the first 'spark'. I started to write the initial chapter where Tara goes over to see Willow across the street and it was going to be one of my standard 'they figure out they love each other' kinda fics. I wrote maybe three chapters and ran out of steam. I stopped and wrote some other things in another fandom.

I guess this broadened my horizons a bit because I started to think of this story again but maybe with a little more pushback than what I normally do. I thought of Willow rejecting Tara by calling her a dyke and thinking how the hell do I get back from that?? But it felt exciting to see if I could.

I never gelled with fics that have Tara struggle with her sexuality. It just for me always seemed like one of those quintessential Tara things that it was a part of her that was settled. So it was always going to be Willow who would fill that role and it made sense to me that she couldn't deal with being 'othered' in another way when she generally never felt like she fit in. I started to write and it literally just shot out. I wrote a whole bunch all at once and knew I wanted to finish it before I published (my writing in another fandom had taught me the benefit of that).

When this fic started, the whole traveling aspect was NOT PLANNED. It came as I wrote. An awful lot of this fic did. I spent a year and a half writing it on a very regular basis. I cried a lot. I hated the angst but I loved the reconnection and I really loved how much stronger their relationship felt each time they got through another bump in the road. This fic totally reignited my love for Willow and Tara and is solely responsible for me having the motivation to complete the confidential verse.

It means so much you consider it one of your faves and it's thanks to the feedback of you and your fellow kittens that the journey feels so sweet :bigkiss :wtkiss

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:02 am 
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Ms. Moderator Fantastico
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Bellalocke wrote:
Laragh,

I joined this board back in 2009 after about 2 years of lurking. I still remember when you started posting your first fics, and how much joy they brought me then. I wish that I would have known back then how prolific you would become. If I had, then I might not have taken such a long hiatus from the board. I think that it is fair to say that you are the most prolific writer here on the board, and your stories have always managed to be so unique and wonderful in their own way. Inevitable is at the top of that sentiment right now, if only because I have not yet started Infinitely, which I will be soon. The way that you have grown and changed as a writer is absolutely amazing, and I am so happy that you continue to write these stories after all of these years. Your representation of both Willow and Tara, but especially Tara, has always astounded me and you have managed to outdo yourself here.


Bellalocke, this means everything! I remember you too and I'm so glad you found your way back to us. Once a kitten, always a kitten!

Quote:
I knew that I was going to be in for a ride when I realized that I would need to take notes in order to give proper feedback on this story. Sadly, I lost all of the notes I had written before chapter 31 :crash . Is it sad that I sat for an hour and legitimately cried over it? Yeah probably, but then I learned of Dub's Fic Club covering this story and I felt like maybe I could some how salvage this piece of feedback through Dub's excellent use of bullet points. Beyond the hilarity that Dub always manages to pull out of any given situation, their bullet points do bring back memories of reading those initial chapters of the story. The memories that stick out the most to me when it comes to this fic is how surprised I was at the angst and how well done it was, the frustration with Willow - to the point that I would literally be reading the chapter and either muttering under my breath "Why Willow, Why?", Shouting "What the fuck are you doing?", or having to walk away because I was either too sad or too upset to want to be anywhere near expensive electronics, and feeling grateful that I did not have to wait for updates. As much as you broke my heart with these chapters, I pushed through because I knew all of it was for a reason.


Your reading mirrors my writing! There were times I was literally writing through tears but I had the benefit of knowing what was coming and when! I will always be thankful for my readers trusting me and coming along for the ride.

Quote:
The heartache that you managed to convey in this story brought me back to my younger years and how scary it was to come out to myself, to my best friend that I had a crush on, and experiencing the heartache that resulted from losing my first love (If only we all should be so lucky to meet our soulmates when we are so young). The last fic that I read before Inevitable that caused such visceral reactions in me was 'Neverland' by Easier Said. This is the strata that you have propelled yourself to with this lovely bit of writing. Even as I sit here with the intention of leaving substantive feedback, I find myself rambling because of how hard it is to put a quantitative and qualitative analysis on a Fic that seems to transcend both. As such, I need some more time to gather my thoughts and feel that it is best to lead with some questions.


This all means so much and I'm teary-eyed again :bigkiss Thank you so much for all of your words and loyal readership!

Quote:
-What Prompted you to write this story?


W and T knowing each other as kids. Always wanted to do it, didn't know how but just one of those things I really wanted to try.


Quote:
-Was it hard to write as much angst as was present in this story?


YES. Deep, snotty tears kinda yes but when they would come back together and resolve and grow I would get literal tingles in my shoulders of relief. Ultimately I write for myself and this fic provided a lot of release and resolution for me.

Quote:
-How long did the planning for this story take?


Research in its entirety took place as I wrote because it really all just came together as I went along. It took me 18 months to write it and a good portion of that was research. Planning itself is complicated because it was one of those half-ideas that rolled around in my brain for a long time, and I even applied some of Tara's music stuff in an RP I did so it slowly formulated over a number of years but the bones of the fic didn't appear until I sat down to write.

Quote:
-How hard was it to research locations that you had never been to and find things for both of them to do?


I mean, the internet is such a plethora of information, I was lucky!! It wasn't hard but it was long. I tried to read a lot to make sure I was setting the scene right; that if anyone reading had been to that place that it would feel right. Nothing worse than being taken out of a fic because of a description you know is wrong. There was some fudging of course to fit plot (full moon parties tend to be more of a Thailand thing than Nepal, but I read an account of one happening there so I used that as my inspiration.) Really it was quite fun to learn all of these things about new places!

Quote:
Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss this wonderful fic with us kittens


Thank you for your interest and being here!

Kittens are the best!

_________________
Amber Benson killed me once.

Check out my finished fics

Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:49 am 
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6. Sassy Eggs
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Laragh, yes, Tara knowing herself and her sexuality seems like an intrinsic character trait, and I have always appreciated when writers let that be- when I talk with others about their coming out to themselves process there almost always seems to have been a struggle with shame and self-reproach and I never had that (though it did take too long for things to fully click) so its really nice to see that in a character- like we as humans, as queer humans, have different experiences and it makes sense for Tara to wear her gayness easily because I think she needs to feel authentic, settled in what feels right for her whereas Willow is always looking so outward, at what the world (her parents) want to see her as- this exploration in Inevitable and now, Infinitely is so well done and I appreciate the journey that is Willow's relationship to others and owning her own identity, it's always a journey

there are so many good reasons to finish a story before putting it out there (I am rereading Wilderness and wishing for a time machine, have to settle for the edit function) I completely understand the need/benefit of getting a story in its full arc before sending it out. they just are different ways of writing I guess

There is a moment in Inevitable that made me sob (hell, makes me sob, I'm tearing up right now) I cry at fics sometimes but very few have made me sob- and it is when Willow comes out on Facebook, her words and Tara's short and sweet reply- and that wouldn't have been as powerful without the struggle you write for Willow . I think it's why I like the tougher stuff in general, it's where the growth is, it's where we all become phoenixes (phoenixi?) But then, you have this great gift for charm and silliness and wit that is just as important for growth and levity (I'm taking mental notes with imaginary different colored pens)

And (I did not plan to be on this roll, call me Sisyphus) but I love just as much how sexual they are - their physicality is important. Lust has a place especially when framed by a deep love and devotion. and it never seems forced, there are soooo many, too many fics where the sex becomes 'yada yada' Sex should never be 'yada yada'

I love their sensuality, their awareness of each other. Dammit I need to catch up with Infinitely . Thanks Laragh!!


Dud- that poll sounds neat but so hard to vote for impact of quotes without it being in context, at least for me (maybe someday I will have Inevitable as mesmerized as I have the Tara scenes from the show)

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:29 am 
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Shirrey wrote:
Dud- that poll sounds neat but so hard to vote for impact of quotes without it being in context, at least for me (maybe someday I will have Inevitable as mesmerized as I have the Tara scenes from the show)
I go by many names hehehe
That's a fair point. The poll is always open so if ever you do find yourself rereading and a line hits you in the face like a rogue baseball, then the poll is there to share that line.
Same goes for any future rereader or hopefully new readers.

Its never too late to leave feedback on a story or start a discussion about it. One of the great things about the KBs forum set up.

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One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:50 pm 
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I am hoping to get this comment in before my time runs out online. I mostly wanted to get on here to tell you that this fic is amazing. I think I read it 3-4 times (?) now. I love going back and finding more hidden lyrics in the writing, including obscure ones like Dermot JFK (where I am, most people don't know who he is). One aspect of this fic I really loved was their time apart. A lot of fics go right into them as a couple, but not spend time with them finding themselves as individuals. They needed that in this storyline in order to come back together stronger than ever. Hopefully your recovery goes well and we see an updated chapter of Infinitely soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:08 pm 
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CK_Mako wrote:
I am hoping to get this comment in before my time runs out online. I mostly wanted to get on here to tell you that this fic is amazing. I think I read it 3-4 times (?) now.


Oh wow, thank you so much!!

Quote:
I love going back and finding more hidden lyrics in the writing, including obscure ones like Dermot JFK (where I am, most people don't know who he is).


I love that anyone is catching any of the lyrics because it was such a random easter egg thing I started to do for my own amusement as I wrote. There's so many songs I listen to and imagine W/T (one of the big ones inspiring this fic was Ed Sheeran's Perfect) so I love when I get to include a lyric I really love (sometimes I'm just searching for any lyric to fit!)

Quote:
One aspect of this fic I really loved was their time apart. A lot of fics go right into them as a couple, but not spend time with them finding themselves as individuals. They needed that in this storyline in order to come back together stronger than ever. Hopefully your recovery goes well and we see an updated chapter of Infinitely soon.


This was such a 'do I do this?' moment because my entire basis of my fics in the past was 'how do they get through things together?'. And that's why we don't really follow them through those weeks but pick up toward their reunion, because it's still a W/T fic not a 'W and T' fic - it's purpose is to show them together. But once I realized how to shape it without having to actually write them apart, I knew it was the right way to go.

Thanks so much for your readership, it means so much!

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:09 pm 
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Dub - still reading, still processing! Will be sure to reply upon completion. Thanks for all the effort.

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:02 pm 
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Also, Dub, to manage expectations I will say some of how you have presented this is so unbelievably hurtful and needlessly cruel that it will take me time to come back from a neutral place where I can engage.

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:33 pm 
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Dub wrote:
I'm incredibly sorry.

I will stop and take it down


You don't need to do that. Just consider if how you word things is out of genuine question of motivation for the story or declares things like calling it a torture to read which only serves to kick me down. Feedback should always be constructive and while stream of thought is fine, you need to consider if those thoughts are things you would say to someone's face.

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Love, The SeriesTwo For Joy/21+/Joy To The WorldInevitable/Infinitely

Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 pm 
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I'll give you an example. The OMWF scene in one of the 'May' chapters - we could have had a discussion about why I chose to include it and my intent in the exchange (which was Willow taking another little step forward by using gay slang like 'butch' and Tara, not surprised that boys were looking at her, but that Willow noticed boys were looking at her and was in turn claiming her as something to fight for. It wasn't about Tara not knowing what it was like to be looked at. It was about her leaning into the feeling that Willow was owning their relationship under the 'safe' guise of the boys gazes)

But you just steamrolled it by declaring it was so out of place (fine, your opinion, but you could at least try to engage) and then that you were the only one who noticed it, or the only one I guess, brave? enough to say it? That's so insulting to me and the other readers. The debate should be that I didn't make my intent clear enough - reading back I can see I provided the surface feelings and not the nuance - that I can acknowledge. But there was no discussion offered. Just 'this is bad.'

I know you to be able to provide amazing feedback that is truly constructive and to engage, we've done it before, I've seen you do it on other fics. I think you just lost the run of yourself a little bit on this.

(You also provided some truly salient points and laughs - but it's hard to remember these when I'm told things like your family are checking in on you to see if your torture has ended yet - if you didn't like the fic, you really just should have called the whole thing off)

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:55 am 
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I love this fic. It’s one of my favourites, I love the angst, I love the incredible maturity and patience of Tara and Willow’s destructive journey of self discovery and acceptance. I love the travelling because I’ve never left my home country so it’s nice to just have a snippet into what international cultures and experiences are like. One of my favourite elements of this fic is the razors edge regarding financial disparity between the two of them and the subtle ways it creeps in and causes issues. It’s so accurate to how it can impact people and relationships and it’s something not often discussed in fic - the obvious differences in their backgrounds and how it can affect their attitudes in day to day life.

I would love to give you something more constructive, and I am usually a super critical kinda negative pain in the ass but honestly, I don’t really have anything regarding Inevitable. It’s just really well done.

Just thought I’d weigh in too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:58 am 
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GrimCityGirl wrote:
I love this fic. It’s one of my favourites, I love the angst, I love the incredible maturity and patience of Tara and Willow’s destructive journey of self discovery and acceptance. I love the travelling because I’ve never left my home country so it’s nice to just have a snippet into what international cultures and experiences are like. One of my favourite elements of this fic is the razors edge regarding financial disparity between the two of them and the subtle ways it creeps in and causes issues. It’s so accurate to how it can impact people and relationships and it’s something not often discussed in fic - the obvious differences in their backgrounds and how it can affect their attitudes in day to day life.

I would love to give you something more constructive, and I am usually a super critical kinda negative pain in the ass but honestly, I don’t really have anything regarding Inevitable. It’s just really well done.

Just thought I’d weigh in too :)


Thanks so much for your words! Yes, the financial thing is huge, IMO. I always wished we knew more about that in canon, especially in the summer between season 5 and season 6 when they move into the Summers' house to take care of Dawn. Surely it would have come up?? Neither of them has jobs and they're now responsible for a household and a child. It's kinda 'fanon' that Tara grew up poor, so did she utilize these skills to help them? Did Willow have savings; ask her parents for money; use her technology skills to 'utilize' money from somewhere else? Clearly not because they were broke when Buffy came back. It's just such a bizarre thing that they never touched on until Buffy has to just figure it out on her own and fight the giant penis. Even if it was expected neglect of showcasing the Willow/Tara relationship, it's a pretty critical part to how they're all surviving.

Grr. Argh.

This is why I write AU. Canon is too frustrating :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:10 am 
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I am going to chime in here again even though substantive feedback feels impossible. Normally, I like to point out the superfine details in any given chapter because anything less feels like a copout, but your fic is so dense that it feels impossible to do so all in one go after one read through. I will attempt to do so after another few readthroughs, or at least be a bit more concise and specific. That said, GrimCityGirl brought up a really really good point. The financial disparity between Willow and Tara is a huge sticking point throughout the entire fic. You tackled the issue in a meaningful way because it wasn't just something that felt tacked on, but rather an issue that was woven all throughout the fic. Privilege, especially financial privilege, is a hard subject to tackle. Until Willow is able to acknowledge that she has that kind of privilege the difference in the level of appreciation and wonder that comes with a journey like the one they undertook is palpable. Tara is so much more appreciative of the trip because she spent the better part of her life busting her ass and going without things to make it happen. Willow is spoilt and has little reason to appreciate in the same manner because she was simply able to take money that she did not earn and do the trip with Tara on a whim. I am glad that you were not afraid to have Tara take Willow to task on the fact that she was being a brat and missing the point of the trip completely. The fact that Willow managed to grow from that experience is a wonder, even though it was painful and something that was really hard to watch.

Willow's internalized homophobia was another difficult topic to tackle that is rarely done in fics. I cried when Willow called Tara a dyke. Doesn't matter that she was frightened because she was suddenly confronted with feelings of her own that she did not understand, that is not something you call your best friend. Tara was amazingly forgiving which simply highlighted her unconditional love for Willow; that she was completely in love with her best friend didn't hurt either. As loving as I can be with so many people in my life, I had that happen to me when I initially came out, and there were friendships that did not survive despite how close I had once been with them even though attempts to repair bridges were made. Willow is incredibly lucky that Tara was able to see why things happened the way that they did and be willing to forgive her for saying such a hurtful thing. Seeing Willow struggle with her internalized homophobia was extraordinarily difficult as well because it is so relatable but being confronted with the consequences of it in terms of a relationship is heartbreaking at the best of times. Perhaps it is because of the memory of what Tara went through in Canon that I just want to see her happy and not hurting as much as she does in so many fics, but this one especially. Seeing Willow hurt her all over again, albeit in a different way, was so hard, but it was so rewarding to see the growth and the change in both of them.

By the end of the fic, I was so proud of both of them, and so proud of you as well. The maturity of this fic is evident throughout and is a direct reflection of your growth, your change, and your own maturity. Truly, it is a rare sight to behold, and perhaps only one that can be seen after being away for so long and then trying to play catch up on missed fics. There is nothing quite like going on a binge of your fics and seeing the change through the years, even though it makes feedback feel impossible. The best thing that I can say here is don't stop writing or creating because you truly are a blessing to this little corner of the universe. I hope that you continue to find stories to write Tara and Willow because they mean something, even or perhaps especially when they are hard to read at times. I hope this little review is suitable as feedback and does this piece of art justice.

Bellalocke

P.S. The Easter Eggs are amazing and definitely warrant multiple readthroughs. Guess they are just another piece that highlights the genius that is you :clap :dumbo :banana :flower

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:18 am 
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shirrey wrote:
Laragh, yes, Tara knowing herself and her sexuality seems like an intrinsic character trait, and I have always appreciated when writers let that be- when I talk with others about their coming out to themselves process there almost always seems to have been a struggle with shame and self-reproach and I never had that (though it did take too long for things to fully click) so its really nice to see that in a character- like we as humans, as queer humans, have different experiences and it makes sense for Tara to wear her gayness easily because I think she needs to feel authentic, settled in what feels right for her whereas Willow is always looking so outward, at what the world (her parents) want to see her as- this exploration in Inevitable and now, Infinitely is so well done and I appreciate the journey that is Willow's relationship to others and owning her own identity, it's always a journey


Yes, yes, yes! I had this experience too. Coming out is hard, but coming out to myself? It was just an 'oh, that makes sense' moment. I never struggled with it. I was always totally fine with it so I think I always related to that with Tara. I can also envison a world where Willow is okay with hers too, but I think there's more potential for gay panic there - she is a panicky kinda gal.

Quote:
there are so many good reasons to finish a story before putting it out there (I am rereading Wilderness and wishing for a time machine, have to settle for the edit function) I completely understand the need/benefit of getting a story in its full arc before sending it out. they just are different ways of writing I guess


Most fanfic is written as the writer goes. This is totally okay, there's lots of circumstances that it works. I'm writing Infinitely as I go and while it sucks now that I've had to retreat, it would have taken me a very long time to write the 10 years it was supposed to span. So I weighed my options and made a decision. In a perfect world I maybe wouldn't but hey, all is fair in love and fanfic.

Quote:
There is a moment in Inevitable that made me sob (hell, makes me sob, I'm tearing up right now) I cry at fics sometimes but very few have made me sob- and it is when Willow comes out on Facebook, her words and Tara's short and sweet reply- and that wouldn't have been as powerful without the struggle you write for Willow . I think it's why I like the tougher stuff in general, it's where the growth is, it's where we all become phoenixes (phoenixi?) But then, you have this great gift for charm and silliness and wit that is just as important for growth and levity (I'm taking mental notes with imaginary different colored pens)


That growth hurts so good, right? I learned a lot about that in this fic and it made me able to finish the confidential verse properly as well.

Quote:
And (I did not plan to be on this roll, call me Sisyphus) but I love just as much how sexual they are - their physicality is important. Lust has a place especially when framed by a deep love and devotion. and it never seems forced, there are soooo many, too many fics where the sex becomes 'yada yada' Sex should never be 'yada yada'


I agree, lust is a big aspect of a relationship and I just can't imagine these two being anything but thirsty (thank Amber with Tara's sex eyes for that :P )

Quote:
I love their sensuality, their awareness of each other. Dammit I need to catch up with Infinitely . Thanks Laragh!!


Thank you!! I heart you so, so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Fic Club - Inevitable - Discussion Open!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:43 am 
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Bellalocke wrote:
I am going to chime in here again even though substantive feedback feels impossible. Normally, I like to point out the superfine details in any given chapter because anything less feels like a copout, but your fic is so dense that it feels impossible to do so all in one go after one read through. I will attempt to do so after another few readthroughs, or at least be a bit more concise and specific.


These chapters were so very dense, you are right, but I didn't feel they leant themselves to being broken up because can you imagine how much more frustrated at Willow you would have been? I worried it would tip too far the other way that people would give up if they read chapter after chapter after chapter, dozens long, where this relationship drags out? I thought of it kinda like a mini series, at least the initial parts where we get to Willow accepting herself and her love for Tara, so each chapter was meant to be an 'episode' - some network, some HBO!

Quote:
That said, GrimCityGirl brought up a really really good point. The financial disparity between Willow and Tara is a huge sticking point throughout the entire fic. You tackled the issue in a meaningful way because it wasn't just something that felt tacked on, but rather an issue that was woven all throughout the fic. Privilege, especially financial privilege, is a hard subject to tackle. Until Willow is able to acknowledge that she has that kind of privilege the difference in the level of appreciation and wonder that comes with a journey like the one they undertook is palpable. Tara is so much more appreciative of the trip because she spent the better part of her life busting her ass and going without things to make it happen. Willow is spoilt and has little reason to appreciate in the same manner because she was simply able to take money that she did not earn and do the trip with Tara on a whim. I am glad that you were not afraid to have Tara take Willow to task on the fact that she was being a brat and missing the point of the trip completely. The fact that Willow managed to grow from that experience is a wonder, even though it was painful and something that was really hard to watch.


Yes, I spoke to GCG about this but it really is one of the biggest issues in relationships - what I loved was that I was able to have them work this shit out in a really lasting way. This makes me able to write a really mature relationship as they go on despite still being so young and only going into college. Had they stayed together in Cali while they still would have stayed together, things would be very, very different and I wouldn't be able to realistically portray their living together and [redacted, redacted] :wink

Quote:
Willow's internalized homophobia was another difficult topic to tackle that is rarely done in fics. I cried when Willow called Tara a dyke. Doesn't matter that she was frightened because she was suddenly confronted with feelings of her own that she did not understand, that is not something you call your best friend.


Let me tell you: I agonized over this but it's actually the real first point of this fic where I transitioned it from my normal happy-go-lucky stuff to something a little more. I thought; will kittens forgive me, forgive Willow? Is it forgivable?

Quote:
Tara was amazingly forgiving which simply highlighted her unconditional love for Willow; that she was completely in love with her best friend didn't hurt either. As loving as I can be with so many people in my life, I had that happen to me when I initially came out, and there were friendships that did not survive despite how close I had once been with them even though attempts to repair bridges were made. Willow is incredibly lucky that Tara was able to see why things happened the way that they did and be willing to forgive her for saying such a hurtful thing.


It was so important to me that while Tara forgave and forgot, as that is just the kind of person she is, that Willow didn't. Willow will never forget or forgive herself for that. She's move past it, understand why she said it, understand how harmful her thought processes were but she will never forget the danger of self-loathing to the degree that you try to make someone loathe themselves. For me, this was the biggest lesson she learned in this fic.

Quote:
Seeing Willow struggle with her internalized homophobia was extraordinarily difficult as well because it is so relatable but being confronted with the consequences of it in terms of a relationship is heartbreaking at the best of times. Perhaps it is because of the memory of what Tara went through in Canon that I just want to see her happy and not hurting as much as she does in so many fics, but this one especially. Seeing Willow hurt her all over again, albeit in a different way, was so hard, but it was so rewarding to see the growth and the change in both of them.


Oh trust me, I never, ever, ever want to hurt Tara. I just want all rainbows and goodness and happiness for her. But I know that ultimately, Willow is all of those things to her. It's just getting Willow to a place where she can be those things proudly.

Quote:
By the end of the fic, I was so proud of both of them, and so proud of you as well. The maturity of this fic is evident throughout and is a direct reflection of your growth, your change, and your own maturity. Truly, it is a rare sight to behold, and perhaps only one that can be seen after being away for so long and then trying to play catch up on missed fics. There is nothing quite like going on a binge of your fics and seeing the change through the years, even though it makes feedback feel impossible. The best thing that I can say here is don't stop writing or creating because you truly are a blessing to this little corner of the universe. I hope that you continue to find stories to write Tara and Willow because they mean something, even or perhaps especially when they are hard to read at times. I hope this little review is suitable as feedback and does this piece of art justice.


You're gonna make me cry! I love this little corner of the universe with all of my heart and plan to stick around as long as I'm wanted (and probably even when I'm not!)

Quote:
P.S. The Easter Eggs are amazing and definitely warrant multiple readthroughs. Guess they are just another piece that highlights the genius that is you :clap :dumbo :banana :flower


The easter eggs feel like the stupidest thing I ever did when I'm searching for a song lyric, any song lyric, to fit into a chapter just to satisfy this silly requirement I put on myself BUT...I do love it when I'm able to slip in a line I love. The satisfaction outweighs the occasional frustration with myself :laugh

Thanks so much, B!

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Confidential EternalA Twisted DateDachsund Through The Snow


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