How Fast Were Willow and Tara ?

[daddykat]

I'm sure this is soemthing that was hashed over thoroughly when this board started up, but since I wasn't around then I'm collecting opinions. How soon after they met do you think willow and Tara progressed to a full sexual relationship ?

I definitely don't think they ran right from the laundry room to bed like they were in a _Penthouse_ letters column. Despite all the metaphorical stuff, from how I perceive Tara she was probably quite direct with Willow from, let's say Square 2 about her interest going beyond the magical. But I also think Tara was strongly in favor of not rushing into anything, if for no other reason that she wanted Willow to be completely ready and comfortable.

Somehow got the impression that, as late as "This Year's Girl", Our Favorite Redhead and Ash Blond were "just dating" rather than going "all the way." Now WE all saw "Superstar" one week after "Who Are You"; I don't know how many days or weeks of "show-time" separated the events of thsoe 2 episodes, but I think they first actually had sex sometime in that interval.



Other opinions ?

[hellmouthhottie20]

I read in my buffy the vampire slayer offical guide, that joss wheadon ( ) said that they had a sexual relationship by "the I in team", i will have to check that i have got that right though, (gotta find my guide)



Caz

I like my woman like i like my coffee...in a plastic cup - Eddie Izzard
Welcome to jackass

Edited by: hellmouthhottie20 at: 3/18/03 11:14:22 am

[darkmagicwillow]

I've read stories that begin their sexual relationship as early as Hush, and it's clear that they were together in NMR. I think Tara saying that the petals are off after the floating rose spell in A New Man was when they first admitted their attraction to each other.



I can see the possibility of their sexual relationship beginning in "The I in Team" with Buffy returning from her night with Riley to find Willow's bed as unslept in as her own and with Willow accepting the doll's eye crystal which I think had to mean something changed in their relationship. But I can also see NMR as being their first time as well.

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"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[xtaraseyesx]

i dont think a sexual relationship developed until after Hush. I always felt that Willow and Tara first had sex at the end of New Moon Rising. i felt there may have been kissing, and tenderness but i think the real heat, passion, and sex happened the night willow brought tara the extra-flamey candle.*sigh* when she said she wants to make it up to tara, asks if it's ok, tara responds, oh yes, and blows out the candle. it was that night that i imagined that the couple made love for the first time.

[Domaris]

extraflamey.com, spikeme4now4200's serie of fics about what happened between the 4th seasons episodes from hush to restless. I think this guy (or girl?) is right. A sexual-with-no-sex relation until "where the wild things are" then the lovemaking comes

"Rock my world!" - Gia

"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes" - Somebody

[daddykat]

for the different takes. One of my biggest shortcomings right now is isolation from my reference books and my atped reruns fm FX so I don't rememeber the exact order of ep.s or even all the titles.

[Garner]

Domairs, I read Spikeme4now's series as well, and also thought she did a pretty good job with the missing scenes. But then I also liked Rane's Velvet Chain series which did something similar. Both are worth checking out, though the former is rougher in the later episodes.



For my part I put first kiss at that point in the I in Team where Willow spends the night and comes back with the Doll's Eye Crystal. I put first sex either during Who Are You (after the flaming O spell which is when I thought Joss said they first did it) or maybe after Where the Wild Things Are. It seems to me that they became more involved before NMR though many people think of that as the first sexual encounter. I just think that is too late in the relationship. Unfortunately, since they were treated just like any other couple and character (Sarcasim Hammer at work!) we'll never really know any of their firsts. That was all left off screen, and admittedly some of that is WB and the censor's fault. But still...I love that part of season 4 but we got less of them than we should have. Which is why this debate can be discussed.



Garner

[Warduke]

W/T either had sex for the first time in The I in Team or Who Are You, but one thing is for sure, they did not have sex for the first time in NMR.



Those who believe it was in TIIT look at the parallel storyline of Buffy and Riley having sex for the first time, then Buffy coming home and seeing that Willow hadn't slept there either. And that Willow wouldn't accept the Doll's Eye crystal from Tara at the beginning of the ep, but when she comes back home after spending the night at Tara's, she has it, what could have made her change her mind?



And as for those who believe it was in WAY, well there's a really good reason to think so…because Joss said their first time was in WAY, this is Joss’ commentary in the DVD Season Four Overview.



"We shot one of the steamiest sex scenes we've ever shot, which was designed specifically to be their first sex scene".



He says this while W/T are doing the Flaming O. And Marti also says they were lovers before NMR in the commentary as well.



But he could have meant that it was their first sex scene on camera (metaphorically of course) so they could have had sex before that.



My personal opinion, it was in TIIT.

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Mozilla : One Browser to Rule Them All.

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



IMO the first time was NMR. I'm not basing it on anyone's comments, more on the feel the actors gave in the performances. That's mostly because I think AH and AB had a better concept of where their characters were than the people writing them.



I also think the Cubs will take the penant each year, so take this with a grain of salt!



Just a hopeless romantic,



Jixer

[Warduke]

OY



Listen, before the season 4 DVDs came out, there could have easily been a "did they do it for the first time in NMR" discussion, but not anymore, both Joss and Marti say it was before NMW.

It's a done deal, that's all she wrote.

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Mozilla : One Browser to Rule Them All.

Edited by: Warduke at: 3/18/03 2:13:14 pm

[hellmouthhottie20]

Whenever it was they exercised great self control







Caz

International rockstar - Gravy maker extraordinaire - Ozzy

[The Angry Lion]

hellmouth hottie: agreed

insert signature here

[SlayerSydney]

I think this is a cute thread. Hee hee.



I am in agreement that their first time was TIIT because of the parallel storyline with Buffy/Riley's first time. Willow didn't come back that night....I know if it was me...I wouldn't have been making brownies with Tara. And the whole Doll's Eye Crystal thing was a sign to me that they had definitely shared something pretty intimate.



Edited to add: I never thought NMR was the first time. Willow had a huge choice to make. Some form of intimacy or Sex had to occur by this point to make Willow so sure that it was Tara who she could be with.

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"Stop sniffing my forehead!"~~my GF to me while snuggling in bed one night.

Edited by: SlayerSydney at: 3/18/03 5:08:56 pm

[Evercat]

Listen, before the season 4 DVDs came out, there could have easily been a "did they do it for the first time in NMR" discussion, but not anymore, both Joss and Marti say it was before NMW.

Hmm. I'd like to engage in a bit of literary theory and argue that the meaning of "texts" (including TV shows) cannot be retroactively fixed by the authors of those texts, but are always open to interpretation. The meanings that a text has must come from inside the text: they can't be imposed from outside, especially if one source of information (the author) seems to contradict the other (the text). Authors do sometimes create works that seem to have meanings that differ, sometimes severely, from what they intended. So I don't regard their word as final. In fact, we can insist on the right of the readers (viewers) to make up their own minds.

In this specific case: Since Willow and Tara sleeping together is clearly an exceedingly important event in their lives, I would expect it to be made pretty clear to the viewer that this is happening. New Moon Rising is the first episode that does this.

But thats just my opinion, and lots of different interpretations are possible. So my interpretation is not the only valid one (assuming it's valid at all). Perhaps a more observant viewer than me would conclude it's pretty obvious Willow and Tara are intimate before NMR.

Incedentally, all this is kinda relevant to the Lesbian Cliche, since it matters a great deal that the meaning that comes across in Late Season 6 is not confined to what the writers intended. But that's a separate discussion (and I'm not trying to win this debate by saying that only my position agrees with the Lesbian Cliche FAQ. I just throw it in as a point of interest).

Sheesh. This post has been ridiculously serious, hasn't it? Sorry.

--
10^57 varieties

[scifiacid]

Isn't there some quote where Alyson's also says that they were so "f-ing" when refering to the flaming-o scene. Might have been the playboy interview? Erk. Sorry, I'll look more for the exact quite after CHildren of Dune

Adrienne

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When we realized that neither of us was faultless, yet love still held. That's the miracle of love, that someone knows us well enough to know the ways we fail and are weak, and yet loves us still. Lost Daughters by JM Redmann

[Kalita]

One more vote for TIIT - it's always made the most sense to me, at least. I don't see these two denying themselves each other for very long.

"...not many people understood the karmic value of grilled cheese."

-Tara, Blue Athame's Angels and Goddesses

[itsnotaspell]

slayer sydney wrote:

Edited to add: I never thought NMR was the first time. Willow had a huge choice to make. Some form of intimacy or Sex had to occur by this point to make Willow so sure that it was Tara who she could be with.



Great point. I'm in the doll's eye crystal club too. The other thing that struck me in New Moon is how relieved Tara is when Willow assures her that nothing happened between her and Oz. That whole scene screams at me that they are committed lovers. As a matter of fact I think the whole be happy converstation was followed by them making love (with Tara fearing it could be a "last time" thing). I don't think Tara would have Willow "all over her"(as Oz said) from just a hug - ya' know. And the whole sweater thing - it would have had to come off of Willow to end up on Tara. Just a thought - fun topic.



oh, one other thing...wasn't the "parallel" sex thing used more than once. feeling rusty here - maybe someone can help.

[Sassette]

Quote:

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I definitely don't think they ran right from the laundry room to bed like they were in a _Penthouse_ letters column.

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Eh ... none of it's really >really< canon. Which is why I prefer to think they didn't even make it out of the laundry room.



-Sass

[xita]

How fast were w/t?



I think they were slow, taking their sweet time exploring every inch of their bodies... oh wait, that's not what you asked!



sass, hee, didn't you write all about it



I am telling you my own personal feeling is of course TIIT, the doll's eye crystal seals it. There is a change after that, Willow accepted her lesbiosity. I think the choice in NMR is will Willow accept that she's in love with a woman and really in a relationship that people will have to know about. That it isn't a phase or an experiment that it is the real deal. That's how I see it.

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Only 50 cents

[Sassette]

Oh, c'mon, xita - look at your avatar. How can you say they didn't get down and dirty right then and there? *G*



Though, you should change the caption to "Love at First Shag."



-Sass

[The Rose24]

No disrespect to anyone, but this topic has been discussed to death. It usually comes down to each person's own opinion.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 7/15/03 8:52 pm

[xita]

sass, yeah I know you are right. In either one of their places I surely would. As someone long ago said about that hush scene, "willow felt that between her thighs."



therose, that's certainly true, but people still find it fun to discuss. And lots of new people who may never have discussed it. Though it does seem, no one changes their mind

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Only 50 cents

[Aradia785]

How fast did w/t go? I think they alternate on nights, it all depends on the mood. Some nights you want to go slow, some nights you want to go fast, hell sometimes you just want to be thrown to the bed and... oh... uh... yeah...



Heres another vote for TIIT. What does that make the tally? Someone should make a poll for this...



Sass and Xita[/x], lesbiosity.... love at first shag... thats bloody marvelous.

If I hear that Gong of Doom I will send stoned squirrels to raid your kitchen
- Lisa of Nine

[The Angry Lion]

aradia 1 but hopefully I can win a point. Im still remembering wild things, maybe Tara touched that special wall spot, and then the action began from there

when the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets and love will steer the stars

[xita]

hee, I'll always vote for TIIT sorry cracks me up.



And lion, would that be the fifth dimension

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Only 50 cents

[The Rose24]

I think TIIT is a little too soon, IMO, because Willow and Tara have known each other for only two months by the time TIIT airs. Hush airs in December and the TIIT airs in February. I think they move into the heavy petting stage without actually going all the way that night. I think W/T are slow movers especially since Willow doesn't understand what is going on herself until she is forced to understand and make a decision in NMR.



I now believe it happens sometime between WAY and WTWTA. I used to be a firm believer that things don't happen until the candle scene at the end of NMR because it is in character for Willow to not commit herself fully to Tara until she finds closure with Oz. It was more romantic to say it happened then. JMO

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 3/18/03 11:27:30 pm

[willntlover]

Mark up another for TIIT.



-Will

"I think finding her soulmate would have made Tara a more confident and secure person" -Amber Benson

[Jimmi Magnus]

I'd have to go for WAY, and the flaming O scene. In TIIT I'm sure there was cudling and kissing. But the dialogue in WAY before the spell, where Willow says to Tara "I trusts you", is IMHO the shows magic=lesbian sex metaphor way of having Willow tell Tara that she is ready to take it to the next level. The firm sure way she repeats it when Tara questions her, shows us that this is what Willow wants.



To me this scene reads/looks as Willow telling Tara that she is now indeed ready to take their relationship to the next level.



"I trust you" = "I want this. I'm ready"

-I feel as if a kitten sat on my face all night

[hellmouthhottie20]

I keep reading TILT and thinking it says tit



Caz

International rockstar - Gravy maker extraordinaire - Ozzy

[Magrat70]

I've always wavered between TIIT and Way but I always hoped it was the TIT because thr W/T parts were the only things I've found interesting



BTW can i say i love this and want to take her home

The Glorious People Republic of Treacle Mine Road;



Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love and a Hard Boiled Egg