Season Six - A Kitten Rewrite - Discussion Thread

[justin]

I think that if Willow did kill them then it might be making Willow too bad, especially this early on. So I think it'd be better if she just put them in comas.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[chilled monkey]

I agree with Justin; having Wilow kill the muggers in episode 7 would be too much too soon. The effect of life-force drain should depend on how much is taken. In episode 7, Willow manages to maintain enough control that she doesn't kill anyone, just incapacitates them. In episode 15, when she finds out that Gabriel (thanks again for accepting that) lied to her, she is enraged and her control slips, so she drains all of his life-force, killing him.



As the series progresses, perhaps it becomes harder for Willow to control the amount of energy she absorbs. That ultimately leads to the finale, where she can't stop herself from automatically leeching any living thing that gets too close.



By the way, I just watched a 'Charmed' episode that featured two energy-draining parasite demons. If you've seen the episode, I think that is the sort of thing we should aim for in terms of the 'look' and effect.

Edited by: chilled monkey at: 5/25/03 3:01:48 am

[LostWithoutTara]

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.



At the moment, I'll provisionally put in for episode three (but no promises). Of course, I will write more episodes, but I have a really heavy workload with exams at the moment. After June 19th, though, I'm free!!



So after that date I'll be able to do loads. I'm also going to put my request in to write ep 7 (the Family Reprise) as I've had some nice ideas for it. Once part one has been finished (I've written 5/9 scenes) I'll send it for beta reading and once everything is okay, I'll post it here. In the first post of the thread, I'll also put a list of each episode and its writer as well as the location on here so that any newbies to the thread can read without being spoiled. Therefore, after ep one is posted, we'll have to have certain restrictions on the discussion.



Again, thanks for clarifying the talisman situation. If I'm to write episode three, I'll need to set the groundwork for it once Willow visits Gabriel.



ETA - Part One update. 7/9 scenes now written. I should have the entire thing done by Tuesday.

Edited by: LostWithoutTara at: 5/25/03 10:48:39 am

[LostWithoutTara]

Double post again, but more important info.



Ep one is now finished!! (Or at least the preliminary write ).



justin and darkmagicwillow - If you could let me know where you'd like me to send it for your beta reading, that'd be great.



Thanks.

[darkmagicwillow]

You can send it to me at the email address in my profile. What document format are you using?

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[justin]

You can send it to justin@techie.com

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[LostWithoutTara]

I use Microsoft Word.



What's preferable - an attachment (provided your computer supports it) or copy + paste into the email? The part's around 12 pages long, so it'd be long if I did that.



Once we've sorted this, I'll send them to you. To send your feedback/edits to me, my email is smashed_wrecked@hotmail.com (ironic considering those eps are two of the worst Buffy episodes ever. I was just in a dumb mood when I chose that one. )

[justin]

Word formats fine for me.



Sending it as an attachment would be best.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[LostWithoutTara]

Okay, justin, I've sent it to you. Hope everything's gone through okay.



Thanks.



Chris/LWT

[chilled monkey]

Out of curiousity, are you going to post the episode here or start another thread?



I have two ideas/requests for the series:-



1) Is it possible to have Tara sing at some point? Perhaps in the aftermath of episode 22. Some happiness at the end.



2) Can you please have Tara dust some vampires? Perhaps in mid-season, after the truth about what's happened to vampires has become apparent, maybe Tara could come up with a way to fight them?

[justin]

I'd like to second both of those ideas.



Tara singing? It's not just a good idea, it's the law

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[darkmagicwillow]

Attachments are fine and OpenOffice can read most Microsoft document formats (at least I presume that's which company's word processor you're talking about) so send away.



Another thread for the actual story is a good idea if the mods wouldn't mind as this thread is active with posts that aren't just irrelevant to readers but which are also spoilers since we'll be discussing what's happening many episodes past the one that's being posted.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[LostWithoutTara]

dmw, I've sent the part to you.



chilled monkey - Tara singing would be great!

I promise she'll get some vamp dusting/ demon beheading action.



Once part one is beta read and edited/revised, I'll post it as a separate thread to avoid newbie spoilerage and so that discussion here can continue.

[darkmagicwillow]

As I'm beta reading my first episode, I've come across a few possible issues about stylistic standards. Here are my suggestions and questions:



1. Do not use terms like "blonde," "redhead," "hacker," or "witch" to refer to the characters. Use their names, nicknames (for example, "Red" from Spike), and pronouns only.



2. Make a decision about pronoun choice for vampires to use "it" or a gendered-pronoun. It doesn't matter which as long as we're consistent.



3. Make a decision on how to emphasize thoughts. Both italicizing them and are common. Interesting, preview shows the less than and greater than signs but they don't show up in my post. Maybe italics are the way to go.



4. Make a decision about what text to use for separating scenes: HTML horizontal rules (see below) or asterisks or something else.

---

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 5/28/03 10:03:23 am

[LostWithoutTara]

dmw, most of your suggestions I'm fine with. If we make the standard to italicise thoughts (it's easier to read and makes things less weighty).



The lines/asterisks are fine too, as are the gendered pronouns.



But perhaps the naming convention suggestion is a tad rigid. As long as it is clear who is being spoken about either at the time of writing or shortly after the mention, this is fine.



For example, I can't really see a potential problem with Willow being referred to as "the redhead", namely because this would be done in context with her name and she is the only red-haired character, so no confusion. Similarly, "witches" is fine to refer to Willow and Tara as there isn't much room for confusion (also, there are no other witches in this story arc and again, as long as things are contextualised there shouldn't be a problem.)

[darkmagicwillow]

The problem with using terms like "the blonde" is not that they aren't clear (though sometimes they're not), it's that they draw emphasis to something that doesn't matter. What's so important about Tara being blonde or Willow being a witch that the reader doesn't already know?



It's the same type of problem as the "said bookism," where new writers find dozens of alternative words to replace "said" from "expostulated" to "uttered." It's annoying to read as using a different word places emphasis where there's nothing important, jerking the reader out of the flow of the story.



If it is important to describe how someone is speaking, then it's appropriate to use a word like "shouted," but it shouldn't be done on a regular basis. If there's no compelling reason to choose another word, use the standard words like "said" or "she" which don't draw extra attention to themselves and distract the reader from your story. So before using a term like "the blonde," ask yourself why you're emphasizing this aspect of Tara's (or Anya's or Buffy's) appearance.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[LostWithoutTara]

Okay, thanks for your clarification. Makes more sense now.



I've noticed that you've used 'you'. Is that a general reference or aimed at me specifically?



As a unrelated side note, I want to keep this thread focused on ep discussion so more ideas for anything would be welcome.



If there any editorial comments, it would probably be better to sort out these through privately emailing me. Of course, l value all your opinions, but I want this thread to stay discussion based.

Edited by: LostWithoutTara at: 5/28/03 12:43:08 pm

[darkmagicwillow]

I was using "you" in the general sense. English is limited in its third-person pronouns so it's never clear unfortunately.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[justin]

I've reread the series outline and I have a couple of questions / ideas.



Firstly I note that Gabriell is trying to resurrect his wife. So does he succeed?



If he doesn't how will he react to that? Will he blame Willow and try to get revenge? Or will he decide that the body that Willow had found wasn't suitable and continue looking for another body to act as host to his wife's soul? Maybe he would feel that due to her magical ability Willow would make the best host.



If he does succeed, how will Mrs Gabrielle react to being resurrected and, more importantly how will she react to Willow killing Gabrielle in ep 15?



In ep 11 the Buffy-bot is destroyed during patrol. I think it would be best if the Buffy-bot were destroyed protecting Dawn. Also before that we should show Dawn and the Buffy-bot interacting and the Buffy-bot developing sisterly feelings towards Dawn, which would explain why Dawn is so upset.



In ep 18/19 it suggests Willow use the Buffy-bot to get Buffy into trouble which is impossible since it was destroyed in ep 11. Maybe Willow could use a glamour, as she does in the next ep to impersonate Giles.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[chilled monkey]

Justin: I think you have a very good point. It would be a good idea if there is a scene where he tries to resurect her but it doesn't work. Perhaps, as you say, he could then try to kill Willow to use her as a host. If his wife was also a warlock, then this would really make sense.



As for the Buffybot, maybe Willow could temporarily restore it with magick. Or maybe she could use a glamour like you suggested.

[LostWithoutTara]

Thanks you for the feedback, justin and darkmagicwillow.



Both of your suggestions and comments are very useful and I'm glad the reaction has been positive. I'm going to make a few minor changes with what you've suggested, but I quickly wanted to ask if someone should read the revised episode or whether I can post it once I'm done.

[darkmagicwillow]

Send us your revised draft once you're done with it for a final check. I know that at least I always miss something or make new mistake when making revisions.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[justin]

I've got a couple of questions about the Buffy-bot.



When I'm writing about it I keep wanting to refer to it as she, is this right or should I stick to it?



Also how strong is it? From the series, and from the outline we've got I get the impression that it isn't as strong as Buffy. But that doesn't seem right since in IWMTLY April was stronger than Buffy.



I guess one explanation is that Warren didn't go as good a job this time since he was being coerced into it.



LWT. I agree with DMW about sending a revised version to us.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[LostWithoutTara]

Okay. Once I've done the revised draft I'll send it to both of you.



When referring to the Buffybot in pt one, I've used 'it' as the pronoun, so we might as well be consistent and stick with it.



I got the impression that Buffy-bot was weaker than Buffy, but still pretty strong (it did fairly well against Glory in The Gift until it was decapitated).



April in IWMTLY had the whole 'crazed-person-in-love' vibe and I think her anger comprised some of her physical strength. Either that or Warren was big on the domination .

[Grimlock72]

Ow, I'm way behind I see .



BuffyBot strength; she's strong enough but she's slow. Compare her to April in _I Was Made to Love You_ (season 5, ep. 15) for direct strength. It's unlikely that April's "anger" had anything to do with her strength, unless Warren's robot have a full hormonal system to run their muscles, which I doubt .



I vote for the resurrection of Gabriel's wife not succeeding at all, mostly because her story would partly close-in on Buffy's problems. Why would Gabriel need to blame Willow ? What does he do with that blame then ?? Willow and Gabriel get along fine until Willow finds out about him being dishonest about the resurrection spell for Buffy. If however he attacks her due to the failed resurrection of his wife, his cover will be blown so to speak.



Oh yes, the reason I went into this thread; I found the Willow-goes-bad-to-do-good fic (the one with the golden spell) in the completed fic archive, finally. It's Chronic's _Falling Star_ link here. It must be a good story since I keep thinking about it. It's a way better Willow-arc than the one we got, thats for sure. Anya is highly annoying and houlier-than-thou though, esp. for a Vengance Demon . Recommended reading. (esp. for dark magic willow since you seem to like the same story-lines I do)



Grimmy

--

She(Tara) knew that she was Willow too. If she knew that then why hadn't Willow herself? That wasn't fair. She was Willow. she should have known that first. -- Willow in _Sidestep Chronicle_ (part 80)

Edited by: Grimlock72 at: 5/30/03 2:37:35 pm

[justin]

I thought that Gabrielle would blame Willow since he'd be pissed off and would need to have someone to blame. Willow would just be an easy target, since he'd been using her for the resurrection.



I agree that he probably wouldn't attack Willow outright but would plan some subtle, long term revenge, which Willow might not realise that he was behind.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[chilled monkey]

I keep thinking of an episode of 'Charmed' in which Adrian Paul played a demon trying to bring his lover back to life. He was trying to use the bodies of witches to house her spirit. Perhaps we could do something similar here. If, as I said before, Gabriel's wife was also a warlock, perhaps her spirit would need to be transferred into the body of someone with magickal ability. That is why he attacks Willow; to use her as a host for his wife's spirit.

[justin]

I'd just like to volunteer to write ep 4 (The resurrection ep)



I've already had some ideas for the tests that the scoobies have to go through.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[darkmagicwillow]

They're so inconsistent about relative strengths of monsters. In some episodes, Spike is about as strong as Buffy, then she picks up the Troll Hammer like it weighs nothing. I think the important thing with the Buffybot is that she's not as an effective a fighter as Buffy for whatever reason; she's slow, she doesn't have Buffy's level of skill, whatever. Oh, and "it" works fine as a pronoun for the bot in narrative, but you may want to have Dawn always refer to the bot as "her" in dialog to emphasize her attachment. Other characters might slip up occassionally too.



As for Gabriel's resurrection, does he need other people to help him as with the Osiris spell, which would lead to him blaming Willow if she's one of them and it fails or if he asks her for help and she refuses, thus making it fail when he's the only caster.



Grimmy, I read the fic you recommended. It was an educational experience; I really liked how it started with Willow's problem, though I never agreed with what Anya and the others felt about Willow using too much magic (casting on Tara was another issue.) The ending and W/T's reconciliation seemed too fast too, which makes me think you're right about our story needing at least one episode devoted purely to epilogue.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[LostWithoutTara]

Hi all.



This is just a quick post to give my apologies - there'll be a delay in finishing part one as last night my glass of water decided to make an acquaintance with my laptop computer. Subsequently, I'm going to have to send it off to get it fixed and as I didn't have backup files of the revision, I need to redo it. I still have all the beta notes, though, so it's just a case of me finding the time. Stupid computers...