The Different Colored Pens' posting policy guidelines

[Web Warlock]

I thought maybe I would weigh in here since I had one of the efected stories.

I believe in following the community's rules. That is what makes a community work and not an anarchy.

Xita closed my thread and she had every right too. I am completely cool with that. I bear no hard feelings or anything aganist the mods. But if they post on MY forums, then they will feel my wrath!! Naw, just kidding. I would love anyone to post in my forums...

Granted I did/do feel that my story is a strong W/T one. It's just other things happened. But, hey, I can post it anywhere.

Did Xita email me first? I am sure she did, but seeing as how in the time I posted the first one and went back to the boards I lost a motherboard, hard drive AND email, hell she could have sent several 1000, I didn't know. Not her fault, not mine, just happens.

My ONLY concern was that those who did like the story may not now be able to find it.
Well until Excite@Home is back up, no one will!

But I will have it on my website. URL is in the Sig below.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@home.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/~theotherside/
The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/nbownw
--
"It could be witches, Some evil witches.
Which is ridiculous, 'Cause witches, they were persecuted Wicca good and love the earth
And women power and I'll be over here."

[Katharyn]

Wow, this now has me really looking at the guidelines and the posts that have followed and doubting myself.
I am writing a large multipart fic where a character (not W) will come to feel that she loves Tara. The fact that Tara never,ever, reciprocates (or encourages) this would keep it within guidelines, but if I address the issue sensitively (from Tara's PoV) as I have originally written it - where Tara fails to stamp her unequivacal "no" on the possibility due solely to her lack of confidence in the situation and dealing with the person (rather than her feelings which she is very clear on - she is Willow's and that is it*S*) do I risk falling off topic?
This is a relatively minor incident in a large fic, but has important plot implications.
I know that before anyone would consider declaring it off topic I would no doubt be contacted but that is not a road I would wish to travel down so I ask the question.
Just to add though that I am all in favour of the guidelines and their application to keep this a W/T board and the wonderful work that the mods do, however I do think this is a far more difficult thing to assess (in many cases) than a thread on the Kitten board. I hope that no one will mind me asking for this clarification, but when I see that Never the Twain is being debated as to being on-topic then I naturally worry for my own humbler efforts.

Katharyn.

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She's my always

[xita]

It is the reason I brought it up, these are not easy issues. Web Warlock informed me that over half the fic would involve w/j and I felt that was entirely too much, no matter what the outcome in the end.

I never thought Never the Twain had any intention in indulging in w/other or t/other. From the start the focus was on how these 2 would find each other. There was never much doubt about that. I don't think that's really up for debate. That's like saying a w/t fic from NMR is bad because it had elements of w/o. Well.. yeah... i mean that is what was happening.

And I don't want to put one shipper over the other and I don't want to stiffle creativity. I would want people to think about what they want out of the fic and that at heart it is about the true love between Willow and Tara. If that isn't at the core, then might as well not post here. I have debated the idea of Tara only fics, and personally I don't think they belong here. So all an author has to do is find a place that will take it and there are plenty.

But I don't want to judge intentions. I guess the way I feel about it is, if the w/other or t/other content is so strong that you feel the need to put it in your disclaimer, it doesn't belong on the board. I would expect such a disclaimer on fic where the non w/t content was strong enough that someone who was a shipper would feel uncomfortable, where the content goes on for too long or .. where the feelings are more than spell induced etc... I for instance don't think a fic where say willow thinks she's in love with both buffy and tara and has to make a choice belongs here.

I guess that is where I am heading with this. Be your own judge if you feel the w/other or tara/other content is too significant, a big chunk of the fic, or extremely graphic, don't post it here. Post it elsewhere (if you don't know where, I can help you).

[This message has been edited by xita (edited December 01, 2001).]

[Dr.G]

Katharyn, if you have doubts, or any one for that matter, they can always email the mods before hand. It is very hard to moderate all the threads on both boards it takes a lot of time, so some things may slip through the cracks (talking general stuff, not just fics here).

I'm one of the WillTara minions and I try to read every thread, it does not happen often but every once in while there will be a troll or a flamer and I want to be sure to catch them in time, but I cannot read every fic that gets posted unfortunately. So I just scan the first parts of some fics while I do read others entirely. So for me it would be hard to help and see if a fic is starting to cross certain lines if those lines are blurred to begin with. My opinion may be colored by the fact I do not like to read about W/T with others, but I really believe that in the end it is best for this board that is created for w/t if we keep this part of the FAQ strict, there are still the wonderful fanfic sites that are linked on this board where they can be posted.

Uhm my opinion is just one of many, whatever Xita decides is what I will repect and stand by, it is her board. I'm just lucky I get to enjoy it and I really appreciate everybody who posts their fic, even if I do not have time to read it all or even like them all . I know the writing and creating of the other W/T A/A goodness we see here takes a lot of time and effort as well.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited December 01, 2001).]

[Katharyn]

This is really a tiny item in this fic and as I said is not even really a T/other thing... except in the mind of that other (it certainly does not ever fall under the category of couples. Strictly W&T though it is a journey for them. I will post it (eventually) here and take my chances. Thanks.

K

[Wiccagrrl]

Thanks for the explanation, Xita. That makes a lot of sense.

[aladdin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr.G:
That is exactly what the mods already do and have always done. Decisions to close a thread are not made lightly. Ever.
The problem now is if you allow one fic to go a certain way, you have to allow the next etc. It takes a lot of time and effort to moderate, and it does not get easier if the line gets more blurred.

Btw, Never The Twain was started before the Pens was created and long before the FAQ.
It is easier to make decisions about new threads.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited December 01, 2001).]

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I never doubted the moderator's competence and I respect and appreciate their effort and work. And I'm sure that they only consider closing a thread after doing some serious thinking about it.

I still think that fic about Willow and Tara can contain a little scene of Willow or Tara attracted to somebody else...but not falling in love with..I dunno.. John? Or anybody else.

I'm not interested in reading Cordy/Willow or Tara/Faith fics here but I don't think that fics concerning past relationships before the main W/T theme, are an off-topic. For example, Never The Twain starts with Tara and Willow instantly having a connection, although Harmony and Oz are in the picture. A fan fic shouldn't have to dive into the W/T topic without time to develop it- even if it includes different pairings...as long as W/T are the main focus. Because, well, they have a miraculous love, right?

I also agree with xita: graphic scenes with Willow or Tara and other parties shouldn't be posted here, but for me, that doesn't concern a kissing scene like in Chance's fic.

If Never the twain isn't a completely on-topic, in fact, a great one, what else would it be?

So, shutting up now.quote:

[Rane]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr.G:
Bless you Rane
I need to pay attention to people's sigs more often. Where did that line come from? And if that is from a S6 ep or Triangle I have just disgraced myself forever.

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thanks to the amazing Rayne, it's from Triangles shooting script. lots of funny tara lines are ALWAYS cut out!

and on to the fic discussion... i know i for one want to write and read w/t (together/broken up or before they got together but mainly willow/tara). i dont mind reading pre w/t as long as it remains within boundaries previously stated in this thread (re: sex scenes and whatnot).

and i dont mind writing or reading about the other characters in BTVS either. it's cool, but not when they become the main characters or when out of the blue characters come in and take over the story (not that that's happened here i think) i love having secondary characters to fill the story up, it creative and fun, makes it interesting. but once the fics get too far from buffyverse i just cant follow it anymore. like it's been pointed out there are other places to read those kinda fics.

i come to the pens board to read about willow and tara not willow and tara and a bunch of other characters. i get lost with multiple plots and characters due to the format of these threads. but that doesn't mean i wont read them on Wiccan Ways or Extra Flamey. i love reading all kinds fics unless they get like i've previously mentioned.

i think the moderating has been working pretty well here. as long as xita is getting the background on the fics like she did with Web's she can make a decision. and i think she made the right one if it's too much non w/t. i know i will go elsewhere and read it though cause i come here for mainly W/T. nice to know you have a place to find exactly what you need.

and about the ship thing... i'm a willow/tara shipper meaning i love the characters together or apart. i love willow. i love tara. that doesn't make me a less w/t shipper because i dont mind reading about willow with oz or tara alone. but i understand that others do not feel that way.

and i know i'm not making any sense beacuse i just started my first cup of coffee.

[This message has been edited by Rane (edited December 01, 2001).]quote:

[Chance]

I must have been out of the loop for months without noticing, because this is the first time I've read the controversy over my fic. I didn't realize it would be such a problem.

However, since this is being debated, and I never really defended myself or my fic, perhaps I could do that now?

I've read what everyone's said, and I understand the position of not wanting to read W/T with anyone else. I understand it, but I don't necessarily agree with banning it from the board.

I love W/T. I love them together, always have, always will. And I believe they should wind up together -- but I think it's unfair to deny that they do suffer from the human condition. They have faults. They will and most likely have been attracted to other people. Do I ever believe they'd act on their own free will and act on that attraction? No. And I think my fic stands as a testament to that. Willow is NOT acting of her own free will. Willow, the way I write her, would not cheat on Tara. But -- I'm also writing an uber fic. Tara and Willow have known each other for two weeks. Not two years.

What I'm really trying to say here, is that I think we should be able to expect W/T are in a relationship at some point during the fic. But past that, the lines are too blurred. Past that, it's censorship. If you don't want to read it, please don't. I don't intend to upset anyone. Now, if the mods want to shut me down, that's fine. But I honestly wouldn't see the point.

M.

[Dr.G]

Thank you Rane, I was afraid I missed something, though I should have known this as well.

Remember that scene from Dracula where Joyce was to have said he knew so much about history and Tara replied "That's probably because he was around for most of it."

Whyyyyyyy did they cut that? Would only have taken a second. Bwah there certainly was *plenty* of other stuff they could have cut

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited December 01, 2001).]

[Rane]

chance, that is why i brought up this topic from the realms. so we can discuss. please dont take it personally though.

angst is necessary, it's good. i mean they friking give us angst every tuesday. the whole thing about the spell (i think) is the reason xita opened the thread again. as long as it ends with W/T goodies kitties are all good with it but i think they dont want too much non W/T in the stories. i for one had no problem with your fic because i know you'll end up W/T. right? lol.

garfield! *rane-y rubs his tummy* there's also a goobelydgook scene from Yoko that i love. maybe we should start a thread of shooting script tara funnies...

[xita]

Fact is, either I or one of the other mods and minions has to read it. That's fact. 2 yes I make up rules for posting on the boards. Not everything that people want gets posted on these boards, it's just how it goes. It's a highly moderated place for a reason. And the debate is really not about you, or your fic, but more about the faq. Chance, please don't feel like you have to defend your fic. I don't think anyone here was attacking it. I think you know by my feedback that I think you are a good writer and I have enjoyed the story in the past.

Again the debate is about board policy. I can do what I like but I really want feedback from the community. I agree that there is nothing wrong with your fic or that itself betrays w/t but I have to draw the line on where it is too much, my initial solution was to have no line and accept nothing.

To restate policy :

If the w/other or t/other content is so strong that you feel the need to put it in your disclaimer, it doesn't belong on the board. I would expect such a disclaimer on fic where the non w/t content was strong enough that someone who was a shipper would feel uncomfortable, where the content goes on for too long or .. where the feelings are more than spell induced etc.

In other words: If you feel the w/other or tara/other content is too significant, a big chunk of the fic, or extremely graphic, don't post it here. Post it elsewhere (if you don't know where, I can help you).

I trust most can do that, but if I feel one has gone over the line, I will pull it, delete it or close it. It will be my judgment and the writer can argue with me about it in private. I didn't want it to be my judgement but I hope that I won't have to do that too much. You would think that people would know what a w/t fic is, but my experience with Willtara has taught me that that definition is too broad for people.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited December 01, 2001).]

[Rane]

who's a minion? how do you become a minion? not that i want to be one but i'm just wondering about how this is moderated. i see some people can close threads by themselves but i thought only mods could do that. i'm confused.

[tommo]

Just adding my own two cents for what it's worth. I'm currently starting out on writing a fic that has W/T in it, but they're not the primary couple in the fic. For those reasons, I talked with Xita about whether to post it on the board or not. Finally I decided that I would not post on pens. I mean, that's what websites are for, right? And mailing lists.

I honestly feel that the W/T relationship is very precious, and therefore don't really wish to come to a W/T 'shippers board and read about them with other people, no matter how brief or fleeting that pairing might be. There are a hundred thousand other places where you can go to read those kinds of pairings.

Secondly, I think right now, at this time, we need good solid W/T fic that has them firmly together without troubles or angst. I feel that it helps to create a happy and positive and optimistic community.

However, I'm not opposed to people writing fic that pairs Willow and/or Tara with other people. I just don't want to see it here.

That's my personal opinion. Sorry if it sounds harsh. But there is a reason we're all here and not somewhere else on the internet, right?

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"Yeah, cheers, thanks a lot." ~ Patsy Stone

[Dr.G]

Rane, I think that thread is a great idea actually, good one for the Kitten Board, and I know just the title for it.

One becomes a minion by sucking up frequently.
People cannot close their own threads, only the mods can and Brian and I use WillTara, cuz we are the minions.

*Editing to kiss Ruth just cuz she is hot.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited December 01, 2001).]

[xita]

Well I mean, I'll state my own opinion, which is I would rather not read any non w/other or t/other content. My preference would be for it not to be here at all. However, it isn't that easy to just say none, it creates some difficulty. So, I will be the judge of when it is too much... I'll let you know

About minions and mods. Mods are autonomous entities, capable of making policy decisions and in charge of dealing with tough situations. Minions are devoted kitties of unwavering willow/tara shippiness who help the board to run smooth by dealing with redundant threads, and steering people to the right places and also have been known to deal with tough situations in the absence of moderators. I wouldn't be able to live without them for my life would be hell.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited December 01, 2001).]

[Rane]

you minions and mods are hilarious. i've been here forever and i was wondering who the heck willtara was, sneaky lil kitties you!

start the thread, garfield! i wanna read your subject title.

and i agree with mistress ruth's post.

[Dr.G]

I think you are misleading the good people of the board Xitificus. Mods are like managers, they manage to do verrrrrrrrrrry little while the minions do all the hard work.

Editing: I will Rane, I just need to dig up an exact quote.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited December 01, 2001).]

[tommo]

I'm leaving this thread because you're all scaring me now. Garfield is kissing me, and Rane is calling me 'mistress'?

Jeez, all I was doing was stating my unadulterated and passionate love for Willow and Tara.

But hey, if that brings me kisses, then smooch away Garfield.

I'm getting a little pissy at the lack of hardcore Willow/Tara fic. By this I mean good, solid relationship stuff. Um, not the other stuff.

Oh bugger it. I'm off to watch the Mama Cass biography on E!

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"Yeah, cheers, thanks a lot." ~ Patsy Stone

[Kalita]

Hey, I don't think there's even any official mnion-assigning process... if you volunteer enough, you just sort of become one.

I've done the occasional little minion-y thing or two (directing people to the Intro thread or speaking up to explain policy), but I'm not on often enough to be considered anyone official.

Just do more of that suff, though, and who knows where you'll go?

Kal
Always the volunteer

[Warduke]

Well Kalita, that's not exactly how it works

When the time came to clean up the board awhile back (there were too many threads) Len and april were pretty busy, you know, that little thing called life, never heard of it myself xita was swamped, so she asked Garfield and I to help her clean it up, we did, I guess she liked our work, so she's let us use WillTara to close/edit/delete threads on the boards. And like xita said, if no mods are around and there’s a "situation" then we’ll take care of it.

[xita]

I love it when kitties who have been around for a while point newbies in the right places. This is most helpful and builds the community.

This is a little different than those with official minion status who have helped me out greatly since the first time I reached out for their help and we had to delete over 20,000 posts in one weekend... ick... I appreciate all you do for me Garfield and Brian!