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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:19 pm 
Hey all,

This is a heavy issue I guess, but this article stunned me, and I really wonder if this thing would ever become widely used.
It sure opens up a few new issues. As someone who as a teenager once had a guy try to force himself on her (but not succeed thankfully), it certainly got me thinking.
http://www.lesbianation.com/storydetail ... 44&ID=9098

Article:

THE ATTACK TAMPON

I know that this isn’t really an “entertainment" story, but when I read this I was mightily entertained: You could call it an "attack tampon". Dr. Jaap Haumann calls it one of the best reasons in the world for keeping your penis safely in your pants and thinking twice about raping someone.

Rape in South Africa has risen to epidemic proportions, and he thinks if women used his invention it would go a long way towards providing men with an incentive to think twice before risking the symbol of their manhood.

How exactly does it work? The woman inserts the penis-mutilating tampon just as she would any other. If vaginal penetration happens while the tampon is in place, the point of the penis presses against the section of the tampon containing a spring blade, and a portion of the top of the penis is summarily sliced off.

Dr. Haumann's device is still in the design stage, but he fully expects to continue the process and bring his invention to the market. It is estimated that at least a million South African women would be willing to buy and wear it... and what about those of us in America!


Sarah-B.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:40 pm 
This thing would only cause more violence towards women. I am shocked that it is even considered as anti anything.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:58 pm 
This reminds me of something I heard women did during war, I'm not sure which one. Women who were afraid of rape would actually stick a knife handle first between their legs and so anyone trying to rape them would be injured. I know it sounds crazy and I didn't actually believe it until I read this. Neither one sounds very safe.

T

------------------
DAWN: I gave birth to a pterodactyl.
ANYA: Oh my god, did it sing?



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:59 pm 
Hm. It won't be of any use in cases of forced sodomy or oral sex. It can't help but raise even more the violence level of any assault. Just thinking a half second about what rapists might do to detect and defeat/bypass it frightens and sickens me more than anything it would do if it worked properly.

I believe that adressing power imbalances between men and women, and working to get the medical/trauma/counseling establishment, and law enforcement and the court systems to treat rape cases properly, changing the way young children and teens are socialized with each other, and the way men deal with anger and feelings of powerlessness or frustration are keys to reducing the number of rapes...this thing sounds more like a way to get women brutalized more horribly, if not killed outright, than an effective way to deter rape.

A magic weapon that would allow women to incapacitate rapists sounds cool..but a society where men just don't sexually assault women is better for both.

-len



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:01 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
This thing would only cause more violence towards women. I am shocked that it is even considered as anti anything.

I definitely agree. Its the same story of treating the symptoms instead of the disease. quote:



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:37 am 
I was just learning about date rape in my psych class today and that thing sounds pretty scary. I would think that it would just piss the guy off more and make him do more damage. On the other hand it would make guys more cautious to rape women.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:50 pm 
I have a little devil on my shoulder that says "Wear the thing, and then seduce your ex-boyfriend."

I'm kinda sick.

Seriously, yes, BAD invention - violence doesn't solve violent problems - but gawd, isn't "Attack Tampon" the BEST band name?

------------------
"I love you so much I almost forgot to brood!" -Wesley (as Angel)



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:45 pm 
I think this things might work in S.Africa, because rape is so ramant. That is to say that there is a high occurrence of AIDS and there is a myth that if fyou have sex with a virgin your AIDS will be cured. This myth contributes to the epidemic proportions. That's why most of these men are raping women...and only vaginally.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:46 pm 
It's rampant...not ramant...sorry about the typing errors.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:58 pm 
Verucasalt, as a registered member, you can use the third little icon above your post, (the one with the little pencil), to edit if you want to. I never need it of course...*cough*.

-len

[This message has been edited by Hugin (edited February 13, 2002).]



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:37 pm 
That device is kinda like killing terrorists to solve terrorism, isn't it? I can't see how it would help - if it was ever used in American I'd be willing to bet the rapist would take out a lawsuit against his victim.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:36 pm 
I'm suddenly reminded of Jessica Rabbit's 'booby trap' from the Roger Rabbit movie.

Don't ask me why, just a nice parallel for some reason...



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 11:55 pm 
quite frankly i cannot see how this is going to help out the situation and the terrible occurances of rape. could you imagine the amount of accidents if this wasn't used properly??
i can just imagine the girls out there getting such a device and inserting this the wrong way..
or maybe setting it off, or having a faulty device and having it go off by itself, causing serious damage and possible mutilation.
and what if a chick forgets that she has one in and her poor loving partner loses a willy or maybe *ahem* some other body part..

in the case of south africa, and its rape epidemic, i'm not any sort of expert or anything, but i've heard that most of it is with very VERY young girls/babies who wouldn't be using tampons anyway.
and even here in perth (yes perth), theres people who rape the elderly and an 80 year old woman, i'm assuming, wouldn't use a tampon either.
and what about when you get raped by someone whom you trust? ie. a family member, a classmate, friend..

sorry for the weeny rant but as far as i can see its a totally useless investment when all our time and efforts should be put into educating young women in how to defend oneself and personal safety.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:05 am 
Y.T., the 15 year old female co-hero of Neal Stephenson's well-regarded cyberpunk novel, "Snow Crash", wears a similar device.

In the novel, the device, rather than performing a mutilation, finds a penile vein, and injects a powerful sedative.

As has been speculated here as a possible complication of the device, Y.T. has consensual sex, but fails to remember she still has the device inserted. The device works, and her sex partner immediately passes out cold on top of her. (Insert humor of your choice here.)

The point being, even in the novelization of this idea, the girl wearing it forgot. If so many "good girls" forget to use condems now, how many would forget to remove such a device?

Not only do I agree with the other posters that such a device would increase violence against women, but I think you'd find women who used it and failed to remove it, being charged with 1st degree assult and sent to jail.

I don't know what the solution is to rape, either in the Western world, or in Africa, but this device would add to the problem, not subtract from it.

bzengo



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:32 am 
I read this out of curiosity (for some reason, I spontaneously attached "Attack of" to the title, in a tacky, 50's horror-movie font), and I have to say, I agree with everything you have said.

The problem is, I can understand why someone would want to use violence against a rapist. Rape horrifies me so utterly, and I know part of the reason is what it implies: It is predominantly a male gender thing, which, for obvious reasons, makes it uncomfortable to deal with. You find yourself looking at yourself in, not to put too fine a point on it, a pretty revolted way: Is that something I'm capable of, because I am of the same gender? Okay, kill me now.

But the problem is, I don't think a lot of males do that - it's difficult to tell, because it's such a taboo subject - particularly amongst males: You'd never, ever get a group of males discussing it, but why not? It concerns us. It's about us, and our behaviour. It's the Uncle Ernie syndrome, where you know, deep down, that it goes on, but you ignore it, because shining a torch in the furthest corners of your gender is, well, frankly, an unpleasant experience. But therein lies the problem. Our society (and I will take the one I know personally, rather than, say, South Africa - I don't know enough to comment on), does a fine job of making excuses, in it's own, mumbled and insidious way. The right to violence, predominance, control, power - these are all things that males have in our society, and that gives us carte blanche to do whatever the Hell we want, evidently. If it's too uncomfortable to be self critical, we don't bother: It must be someone else's fault. I hate it. But the problem is exacerbated by the fact that often the only thing stopping males from raping is that it is seen to violate a code of conduct - you know, all that stuff about "treating a lady right": Thou shalt open a door for a lady, oh, and it's not too polite to rape them, either - at least until you feel (in your own mind) you've been given permission. I reckon, if you were to do a controlled experiment, where you could interview males and females in the sort of environment where they felt safe to really express their views, without fear of judgement, you would find the following: Most males don't think rape is as bad as murder. Possibly not even as bad as smoking a joint, in some circles. I mean, society knows that's bad, right? But stopping healthy, virile males having a bit of sport? I mean, that's not natural, is it? I think I know what the female response to the same question would be. Because of this (I'm simplifying, I know, but stay with me on this one), the rape victim becomes the transgressor. How many women refuse to come forward, or even downplay the event in their own mind, because they know the way society will look at them? At best, if they do come forward, they know they will have to go through a dreadful experience to get the sort of justice they deserve. And the suggestion that the "sliced" bloke becomes the victim, enabling them to file a lawsuit against the woman, who was wearing the killer tampon, is sick - utterly sick, but I don't disagree with you. I could see it happening. The tosser would probably get an extension, and make a career performing in hard core porn, or something - oh, wait, that already happened.

I'm sorry to rant; I know I'm preaching to the converted, and that I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but you've hit a sore point with me. I know violence doesn't solve anything, but in a way, I can see what this Haumann is trying to do - if you're caught with your dick in place, so to speak, it's fairly inequivocal. Of course, you can't necessarily prove that it wasn't consensual, but I can understand someone trying to do something in a hopless situation. Maybe taking a victim at their word might be a start, but I can't see that happening: I could see male law makers the world over stiffening (not that way) over that one. Maybe making all males go through some kind of treatment, that if they do anything that is of that nature, they turn bright blue, or something. Then everyone could see. Something that makes the words "I am a scumbag: feel free to treat me as such" come out on his forehead.

Okay, I'll stop now, and go on my way, mumbling crossly to myself. I hope you don't mind me saying this stuff, or interposing on your thread. I just felt the need to say something. Feel free to hit me over the head with blunt or sharp objects if you want: I shan't mind. I consider you all my friends, and when it concerns you it concerns me.

------------------
I am the sunlight on the sides of houses.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:39 am 
ok... when i read it... i really wasn't thinking about the damage it could do to the rapist...

the first thing i thought of was "what it it malfunctions???"

what if something went wrong? or someone inserted it incorrectly? what if you moved awkwardly and set the damn thing off?

how many women would be walking into the emergency room all sliced up inside?

ewww....

not a pleasant thought.

i reckon the guy who invented this really just wanted to be able to say that he invented something...

and all the good ideas - like the wheel... and peanut butter - were taken already.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:16 am 
I don't see this as being much of a solution. Even if it works, (and I would be afraid of a malfuntion too) who wants to wear a tampon all of the time.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:05 am 
I agree totally with what everybidy else has said, but I can also see another problem. When this device mutilates the penis by cutting the tip off and the man is bleeding heavily into the woman...isn't this just ensuring that if the have AIDs or hepatitus it will definitely be passed on? Another danger of the attack tampon.


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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:42 am 
I say a thumbs down on that idea;there's got to be a better way to curb the rape cases in SA. It just sounds too dangerous and risky even if used properally.

------------------
"My heart doesn't stutter" -Tara



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:59 am 
*takes a deep breath* As a survivor of three rapes (three different men) I think the idea is a not a good one.... like some one said.. what if the person has AIDS? If I am correct in my thinking, isn't AIDS rather common in S.A??? The blood would be contaminated obviously.... In my cases, I wish there had been a way to stop these monsters.... even though I was screaming NO at the top of my little lungs. Ok, enough about that.... Len is right in saying that there needs to be no rape/ domestic voilence at ALL..... hopefully this issue will be dealt with in a comprehensive way.... it is a horrid thing to have happen.

------------------
"So, how long have you known that your girlfriend was tinkerbell" Xander to Willow



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:17 am 
Okay. Speaking as a guy...

Doesn't this just sound like something a guy would think of? The way a guy thinks when solving a problem? Hmmm... Rape is a big problem, so what would stop a rapist. Hmmm... what would stop ME from putting Mr. Johnson where he doesn't belong? Hmmm... injury to Mr. Johnson. So the doc builds a contraption that completes the task of injury and suddenly women the world over are safe from rape.

Jeez. If only it were that simple. As others have said, you can't just forget all the sociological causes of rape that a quick-fix won't solve. A current case involving some college athletes here in Georgia comes to mind. There's a video tape that has just gotten sodomy charges added to aggravated assult and this device wouldn't have helped that.

But can't you picture this guy in the lab tinkering with tampons and exacto knives... bandaids on the ends of all his fingers... the terrified look on his wife's face when he's ready to test the next version... It's really nothing to joke about because it's a serious problem, but come on - this is so NOT a solution. This story had to come from the Weekly World News originally.

S

------------------
Buffy: The world is what it is---we fight, we die. Wishing doesn't change that.
Giles: I have to believe in a better world.
Buffy: Go ahead. I have to live in this one.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:23 am 
Amen to that, Salix..... it does seem like a device that a guy would come up with.... ironic......


Love, Reba

------------------
"So, how long have you known that your girlfriend was tinkerbell" Xander to Willow



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:45 am 
Besides all the fine points everyone here has raised against this device I just wanted to add that this device once again puts responsibility for ending rape on the victim. She must wear the tampon and know when to wear it. Since the vast majority of rape occurs by an acquaintance, it seems rather futile as well as an unfair burden on women. In addition, my work with battered women has shown how common and pervasive marital rape is and I hardly think this device is a viable or safe option for such situations. Lastly, yes, it is important to educate women about safety and self-defense, delany. But ultimately ending violence against women is about (re)educating men, holding men who use rape as a means of power and intimidation accountable, and working to end oppression.

I think it's important, as well, to understand male privilege and power as the privilege and power of a group within a specific system, not targetting men as individuals. There are anti-sexist men who are conscious of the privilege and power afforded to them as a group and who work to end rape and change current conditions.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:59 am 
Also if you have a gf and ooure going to have sex with her and she uses it well you better make sure its not in there >.<

------------------
<Xander>
"HEY LADY SHE WHO SMELT IT DELT IT!"," so it's like a a giant poltergasm"



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:40 pm 
I also agree with what's been written here. There are so many issues with this thing.

However, it's interesting how we all see the potential dangers. Yet that lesbianation article was so dizzy and positive.

Sarah-B.



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:52 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by judy:
this device once again puts responsibility for ending rape on the victim. ... But ultimately ending violence against women is about (re)educating men, holding men who use rape as a means of power and intimidation accountable, and working to end oppression.

I hate to say, "me too", but, duh, why didn't I see that?! This is precisely why this device is yet another bad idea.

I don't have the quote precisely (or the author at all), but I remember that someone once said something like, "If men could get pregnant, condems would be handed out on street-corners, conservatives would demand our fine young men take sex education as a required course every year from first grade, and abortion would be a sacred sacrament, offered by the holy mother church."

Judy has slayed this idea - as she said, the device shifts the responsibility for avoiding rape to the victim of rape, when what is wanted is education and accountability of everyone who perpetuates the system which allows rape as a possibility.

bzengo
quote:



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:09 pm 
What if shes itchy...... ouch

------------------
<Xander>
"HEY LADY SHE WHO SMELT IT DELT IT!"," so it's like a a giant poltergasm"



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 Post subject: OT: The Attack Tampon (article about new anti-rape device)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:39 am 
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfie:
But the problem is exacerbated by the fact that often the only thing stopping males from raping is that it is seen to violate a code of conduct - you know, all that stuff about "treating a lady right": Thou shalt open a door for a lady, oh, and it's not too polite to rape them, either - at least until you feel (in your own mind) you've been given permission. I reckon, if you were to do a controlled experiment, where you could interview males and females in the sort of environment where they felt safe to really express their views, without fear of judgement, you would find the following: Most males don't think rape is as bad as murder. Possibly not even as bad as smoking a joint, in some circles. I mean, society knows that's bad, right? But stopping healthy, virile males having a bit of sport? I mean, that's not natural, is it?


You sound SO much like my old boss, a straight man for whom I have a great deal of respect and affection. He always said that the only difference between a bastard and a gentleman was the amount of self control they were able/willing, to exert over themselves.

But as the father of two young girls, he'd probably be all for something like this........and yes, it really is a very bizarre way of attempting to deal with a problem that has been around forever...

quote:



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