Here's the place to discuss this week's Buffy after you've seen it. Keep all your comments in this thread for the first day.
Enjoy.
by Zelda » Mon Feb 05, 2001 7:29 am
Enjoy.
by Warduke » Mon Feb 05, 2001 3:18 pm
Now for a couple of questions xita asked, about the two wildfeed reviews…
Did W/T act weird around Dawn after finding out she is the key…not really, more like uncomfortable, right after Tara mentioned the key, with Dawn standing right there, then both W/T were a little uncomfortable.
Did W/T do the teleportation spell or just Willow…they both did the spell together.
And the scene with Buffy and W/T talking about birthdays w/o boyfriends went like this…
B-maybe it’s time to start a new tradition…birthdays w/o boyfriends, it could be just as much fun
W-preaching to the choir here baby
T-yeah, some of my best…then she saw Dawn with the knife and the bloody hand.
At the beginning, Willow was talking about Buffy’s birthday, she said she use to be afraid of those candles you put on birthday cakes that don’t blow out and Tara said she use to be too…ahhhh
Also, plenty of stares, yes indeed…tee hee
by tvsurfer » Mon Feb 05, 2001 3:44 pm
thanks for the info!
do we need spoiler space in an eppie discussion thread?
4
3
2
1
If I might ask, when willow and tara do the send glory away spell, did they both recite words together or was it just willow taking the lead? I'm wondering because willow faints but tara doesn't and giles admonishes willow about doing such a difficult spell. so I guess what I'm really wondering is if tara is more advanced than willow to do/handle these spells or if willow was the one taking the lead and thus the brunt of its effect? does that make sense?
by xita » Mon Feb 05, 2001 4:41 pm
And now it makes sense, some of my best birthdays... etc. We all know about Family don't we!
No spoiler space in discussion threads, unless they are spoilers for another ep.
by Warduke » Mon Feb 05, 2001 6:13 pm
by Dr.G » Mon Feb 05, 2001 7:42 pm
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"Hello! Tarasexual now..."
by Zelda » Tue Feb 06, 2001 12:59 am
BUFFY 5.13 FAQ
WHAT’S IT CALLED?
“Blood Ties.”
WHO’S RESPONSIBLE?
Teleplay is credited to Steven S. DeKnight, who appears to be a newcomer to Team Whedon.
WHAT DOES TV GUIDE SAY?
“Dawn’s entire world crumbles around her after she learns that she is the Key – and dealing with the truth proves even harder than anyone had anticipated when she runs away.”
SUCKOMETRIC READINGS?
Virtually suck-free! 5.13 is an agreeably plotty installment with some fairly moving Dawn material. The only downside is the complete absence of laugh-out-loud comedy-genius dialogue like “Hello! Gay now!” and “Willow’s a demon?”
THE BIG NEWS?
In the episode’s big jump-out-of-your-seat what-the-hell-was-that? scene, we learn in highly dramatic fashion the true nature of Ben the Evil Intern!
DO WE LEARN BEN’S TRUE RELATIONSHIP WITH GLORY?
At least one important aspect of it! And while Ben and Glory may in fact be brother and sister, we learn that that share a far more intimate connection! Ew!
DOES BEN LEAD THE KNIGHTS WHO SAY “KEY!”?
Uncertain. He knows who they are, but he seems to be caught off-guard by their sudden appearance in Sunnydale.
IS BEN TRULY EVIL?
Well, yeah. He did, after all, summon that queller demon to snack on Joyce a while ago.
ARE THE WATCHERS STILL LURKING ABOUT? HAVE THEY BEEN REDUCED TO RUNNING ERRANDS FOR WILLOW AND TIDYING JOYCE’S KITCHEN?
Sadly, they have not! The watchers, in fact, have no on-screen role in this episode, having been shooed back to their sad little island by Giles and the slayer.
IF DAWN LEARNS SHE’S THE KEY, DO THE SCOOBS LEARN AS WELL?
Yes. Willow, Xander, Tara and Anya all get the news minutes before Dawn.
IS SPIKE STILL PROTECTING THE SUMMERS GIRLS IN THE SPIKECRYPT?
No! Joyce, Dawn and Spike all begin the episode in their respective homes. Was Spike just an interim solution while Buffy dealt with the watchers? Or did watcher research suggest Spike would make one crappy protector?
DO WE LEARN MORE OF GLORY?
We do.
WHAT KIND OF GOD IS SHE? SUMARIAN?
Giles relates that, according to council research, “Glory and two of her fellow hell-gods ruled over one of the more seriously unpleasant demon dimensions.”
IS GLORY SEEN THIS WEEK?
Yes. And she has more dreggy minions than ever!
IS BUFFY STILL HEARTSICK?
A bit. She gets a bit pouty when her 20th birthday comes and no greeting card with a Latin American postmark appears.
TELL US HOW TO SQUANDER OUR TUESDAYS, O HERCULES!
The WB’s “Buffy” at 8:00, the WB’s “Angel” at 9:00, and MTV’s “Road Rules/Real World Challenge” at 10:00. Tape ABC’s “The Mole” at 8:00 and Fox’s “Dark Angel” at 9:00. Buy a second VCR and tape Fox Family’s 2-hour “Freaks & Geeks” block at 8:00.
HERC’S RATING FOR “BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER” 5.12?
***1/2
by april » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:57 am
this is going to be a wonderful ep. especially the tara bending over part. (jk)
but we find out ben is evil? i thought he tried to help dawn get away? nothing in the summaries suggested that he was evil to me...
by tvsurfer » Tue Feb 06, 2001 1:46 pm
by april » Tue Feb 06, 2001 4:25 pm
roses are red
violets are blue
i saw tara bend over
and i thought of you
woo hoo for this ep! i loved it!!!!
by BlackLab » Tue Feb 06, 2001 4:29 pm
by eekiboo » Tue Feb 06, 2001 4:38 pm
Ben is Glory and Glory is Ben... when Ben told the minion "you know that Glory can't kill me" i was wondering...what is he a god? and i was right! so Glory and Ben is one and the same... hmmmm interesting... but it seems Ben is the good one and Glory is evil... so is the "key!" so if the monks had turned 'the key' into a human being, then there is a possibility that 'it' will eventually become 'good?' i know it sounds kinda confusing but that's what i'm thinkin' rt now after watching it.
now when Willow and Tara did that spell... i was like... finally, they're *doing a spell together!* but it seems Willow's energy to cast that spell has left her weak (which caused the nose bleed) but Tara didn't even feel a slight tinge of weakness. does that mean Tara's more powerful coz it didn't drain her energy unlike Willow? or Willow's more into it than Tara? but Willow was the one who said the final word that eventually led Glory to another place/dimension (in the sky) and it was a very powerful spell so probably that caused her to lose energy.
having Dawn feel the way she did was just too emotional! i felt her pain! it was devastating! now her finding out she's not 'human' coincides with the Passions' storyline... (sorry kinda OT) coz it's the almost the same story as Ethan Crane, finding out he's not a Crane but a Bennett! imagine both their despair and denial after finding this out!? what horror they must be feeling! ugh! Dawn trashing her room is naturally acceptable!
ramblings over. bad me, too long... peace.
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Willow to Buffy: "we have to face it, you can't handle Tara being my girlfriend..." The Yoko Factor
by Isolde » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:06 pm
by jojo_ 342 » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:16 pm
by SciFiAcid » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:45 pm
quote:
Originally posted by april:
a poem for xita:roses are red
violets are blue
i saw tara bend over
and i thought of you
rotflmao
OMG april! Niiicce poem, you dog!
by hypergirl » Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:55 pm
Ciao -
ºAshleyº
[This message has been edited by hypergirl (edited February 06, 2001).]
by tvsurfer » Tue Feb 06, 2001 6:33 pm
I liked the way that buffy 'listened' to willows concern about them not being made aware of what the key was (and it was clear it was buf reacting to willows criticisms as opposed to xanders that moved her). Instead of making excuses, she took responsibity and gave them the information on dawn.
interesting birthday party. taras comments about some of her best birthdays
being boyfriendless was stated in the "pleural' as opposed to her last birthday or her best birthday. which could mean she has had birthdays with boyfriends and or birthdays with other girl friends?
I thought the dawn melodrama was ok but could have been better. buffy had being the chosen one whose duty was pushed on her when she was 15 with no help from her friends and family, and buffy still isn't clear on where her power comes from or who she really is . this would have made a fine touch stone to use in relating to her sisters angst over learning she is more or perhaps less than she seems. why didn't they work the "the summers girls" are unique thing?
as for our god of chaos glory, so now we know her human form limits her power and she is one of 3 gods who ruled a dimension of hell. ok so is she one god and ben another and the third is still back home ruling?
The first crazy people got quelled back in the 12th century and thats about when the monks hid the key (which is almost as old as glory which is forever) so has glory been stuck here since the 12th century? with the knights chasing her and ben since then to sever the link and keep her from coming or returning to hell?
as for ben and glory, ok they are brother and sister. ben drives glory crazy and glory needs brain energy to keep sane. they can't hurt each other because they can't exist in this earthly dimension at the same time. they flip back and forth displacing each other and their knowledge is seperate. so where does ben go when glory is here, back to hell? are they one god with two personas or two gods sharing one access point to earth? ben wants to keep glory from the key but why. so as not to go back to hell himself?
then there's spike who actually gets through to buffy tonight and gets her to really talk to him even apologize of sorts to him, not to mention he helps
and the big fight, well kind of dumb to try and take out a god with an arrow or a crow bar. good thing willow and tara had a trick in their bags. blue jeans seems to have become willows uniform for demon hunting and my goodness anyone else notice that everyone got beat up, knocked down or bloodied EXCEPT tara.
while it was nice that buffy and dawn bonded and tara ran to willow, I was kind of disappointed tara just touched willows arm/shoulder as opposed to helping her to a seated position and wrapping an arm around her and supporting Willow. a warmer demonstration of concern and affection would have been nice
also thought it kind of cold that buffy would leave the recovering scoobies with out so much as a 'thanks and oh are you guys ok' and just walk off with dawn
granted mom was worried but her friends are bleeding after almost getting killed
a thanks guys would have been nice
and maybe a joke about another typical buffy birthday
by Roxton » Tue Feb 06, 2001 6:40 pm
I was shocked when I saw Ben transform into Glory. It appears that they are one entity, except that the good and evil parts of their nature can't co-exist at the same time. When each comes to the fore it is manifested in a diferent form: the good being Ben, the evil Glory. Basically a God with a split personality.
It was great to see Willow and Tara doing spells together again. What's interesting is that even though they had never done a teleportation spell before it gave us an indication of just how powerful a force they can be when they combine their talents. Plus I had to laugh at the look on Glory's face when she materialized. I'd have to say she was not very happy.
by calliope » Tue Feb 06, 2001 6:57 pm
by darvangi » Tue Feb 06, 2001 7:04 pm
This was the 3rd great ep in a row, i hope this trend continues! I was very pleased that this one continued what was started in the previous 2 by carying through on the promise of the gang coming back together this year. Everyone was working together so nicely that it seemed like vintage BTVS, except better because now there's Tara.
Oh boy, when the camera was lingering on Tara's arched body in front of the magic shop, i thought 1). the photographer has just fallen in love with amber like everyone else and cant move the camera off of her and 2). this scene is going to cause an explosion of happiness for certain members of the board whom i will not e(X)pose (I)n repect to (T)heir (A)nonymity.
by eekiboo » Tue Feb 06, 2001 7:14 pm
by judy » Tue Feb 06, 2001 8:02 pm
Speaking of which, I loved the fresh pleasure of hearing/seeing the "preaching to the choir" line while watching the episode. The spoiler-free life has some distinct advantages.
I am not convinced that Ben=Glory and Ben=Good and Glory=Evil. I suspect a more complicated (familial?) triangle/nexus of Ben/The Key/Glory. I found it interesting that Dawn lied to Buffy about Ben (a friend I watched with scoffed and said Dawn really couldn't remember but she has not resided in the Buffyverse for long). The effect of Ben switching to Glory was great.
I loved how they portrayed Dawn's pain and the murky questions they raise through this storyline -- what makes a family, how much identity is knit up with memory/history/recognition (which makes me think of Gertrude Stein's "Identity is recognition, you know who you are because you and others remember..."), what the hell constitutes love anyway, etc. I also liked how they highlight allegorically that awful time in your adolescence when you question reality/self; you feel unreal and awkward in the flesh you haven't completely grown into. (And on the most obvious level it was drawing from child finds out she's adopted narrative but I think it explores lots of other juicy themes too). Of course, with Dawn the confusion and despair are fixed in a very real situation.
Anyway I liked this episode. I know I have some quibbly quibbles I can't remember because I am caught up in the high of having watched unspoiled...
EDITED TO ADD:
Darin, ROFLMAO at your little code.
[This message has been edited by judy (edited February 06, 2001).]
by Anyalvr » Tue Feb 06, 2001 8:20 pm
I've always kind of liked Dawn. She's just
witty enough to make her amusing and interesting, but also has a touch of that studiousness/seriousness that Willow and Tara
have.
Michelle is one terrific little actress. Can you believe she's only 15?
Nice touch - after Spike confronted Buffy,
notice he was included in on the Scooby action in searching for Dawn.
My theory on Glory and Ben: originally they were seperate entities, but somehow they got meshed into one. Hence the antagonism and the fact that they both *know* this. Perhaps Dawn is the thing that will split them into
two, bringing one of the demon dimensions into the world, and that Ben keeping Dawn away from Glory is the only way he can keep
control of her. I also kind of think that maybe Ben's control over Glory or whatever the thing that meshed them together also brought them to human form, and when the key
seperates them, she'll be back to her original badness.
Oh, and on a side note, Angel was soooo boring, and it was so lame to hear him tell
the karaoke host exactly what he was thinking! A) It's obvious and B) Lame plot device. However ----
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
Heard in an upcoming episode that Angel does the nasty with Darla - yet doesn't lose his soul, and it brings him back to the gang. Sounds interesting.
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"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"
-(jewel)
"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)
by Warduke » Tue Feb 06, 2001 8:21 pm
by SciFiAcid » Tue Feb 06, 2001 11:00 pm
Okay, comments on the actual episode. I like how the Glory story is finally wrapping into something. That Glory/Ben thing was an interesting twist. I like the less self-centered Buffy although I think her sisterly thing is starting to get a bit tired. Don't know why, just thought that! Michelle was great. I loved Giles reaction when Xander was talking about how special he was because Dawn had a crush on him! lol I'm all curious about why the spell at the end had such an effect on Willow, but not Tara. Ummmm I do so hope we get Willow witchy stuff front and center soon! Xita pointed about finger hold... to cute. Anya, cracked me up as usual. I loved her wanting all the presents! Um, I think that's it. Brain fried, bedy by. Oh, the caps, um, might not be able to get to them till the weekend. Sorry folks, pout I know! But at least Nick got a good, um, um, a good cap there to hold most of us over.
by Dr.G » Tue Feb 06, 2001 11:24 pm
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
Darin, I have no idea who you could be possibly thinking of. I have no clue. Anyone?? It's not like I would ever fixate on posteriors. Hmm me??? no. Me? no.
*sigh* so you have no idea? Well, let me spell it out for you, in case anyone missed Darin's post there...
XITA *loves* the ASS sweep...
There now...any other questions?
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"Hello! Tarasexual now..."
by Dr.G » Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:15 am
quote:
Originally posted by Isolde:
You know, it bugs me that for such a great episode, little things never fail to catch my attention. When Spike was talking to Dawn (right before they headed to the magic box), every time he spoke, clouds of breath came out of his mouth. I thought it was pretty well established in the Buffyverse that vampires don't breathe? Why did that have to happen in such a great episode?
Well, I don't want you to feel bugged, so I have an explanation that will hopefully be satisfactory. True, vampires do not *need* to breath, but that doesn't mean that they *can't* (I am betting Spike inhales when he smokes). In order to speak they need to breath to get them vocal cords moving. And eventhough Spike is not warmblooded, I am sure he is warmer than the outside temperature, so the air he exhales will come out in little clouds if it were cold enough outside.
Editing to add: Dead Dog thanks for the cap! I've had this scene described to me in perfect detail, but seeing is believing they say.
April, you are brilliant! Lol, you are a poet at heart.
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 07, 2001).]
by Banshee » Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:41 am
So, I'm completely thrilled with this episode..the Dawn arch was F&*king amazing! T/W doing not 1, but 2!! spells was really nice to see. Anya, again, wins for the funniest scenes/lines in the epp. Glory..oh my goddess..lovin' her hardcore..
But, I have a couple observations:
--Did you notice how Dawn didn't know where Ben went or that he even morphed into Glory? Do you think he did something to her memory about it?
--With Ben-->Glory thing..do you think they were split when they left their world and the key puts them back together? That's why Ben was freaking out..
Oh..and, I had to explain the past 5 seasons to my gf last night during this epp. so, I missed the tara ass-shot... thank god for vcrs.
-S
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*~*~*~*~* I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones *~*~*~*~*
by Rayne » Wed Feb 07, 2001 4:24 am
I'm almost giddy that I got the script for Blood Ties posted this morning! I'm pressed for time, so I haven't read this thread yet, but I wanted to let you know that it was up... and there is the sweetest Tara/Willow scene in Act 3 that was cut (at least I think it was cut... a friend came over last night *during Buffy* - which is a big no-no - so I couldn't give the show my full attention).
[This message has been edited by Rayne (edited February 07, 2001).]
by drlloyd11 » Wed Feb 07, 2001 5:01 am
"
Birthday presents are strewn across the coffee table, some weapons, some clothes, a few books…
Willow and Tara are at the coffee table, cutting Buffy's birthday cake with a sharp, gleaming knife. Willow laughs, licks a bit of stray frosting from Tara's finger.
"
Hmmm, Tara frosting!
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