What did you think?

I felt icky at the end by how they made the girl confess to the killing. She was pressured to be all this stuff and she couldn't handle it getting out that she is a lesbian so she kills and they use the same pressure to do confess.

Yeah, the girl who died would have had supportive of parents I think if they knew and had time to deal.

The girl who is in jail, well it's apparent why she did it, of course it was wrong but the pressure from everything and how her parents would have reacted.

I too think it was about peer pressure, but at the same time it was about the fear of being outed. I have known some folks who would do anything not to have their freinds familly and church leaders not know about the sexuality, in fact I lost a dear high school classmate to suicide rather than tell his folks.

My point is, that I think we have to add this LandO to the list of bad tv depictions of the GLBT community. Even though they got the point across that being outed is NOT grounds for murder, they still make the point that, to some, being gay is somthing worth hiding.

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Originally posted by Karzia:
I saw it, and as I was watching I said to the wife, "Gee I wonder what the Kittens are gonna say?"

I too think it was about peer pressure, but at the same time it was about the fear of being outed. I have known some folks who would do anything not to have their freinds familly and church leaders not know about the sexuality, in fact I lost a dear high school classmate to suicide rather than tell his folks.

My point is, that I think we have to add this LandO to the list of bad tv depictions of the GLBT community. Even though they got the point across that being outed is NOT grounds for murder, they still make the point that, to some, being gay is somthing worth hiding.

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Well it is honest, alot of people rather murder, commit sucide, do anything because of how society treats and reacts to someone who is l/b/g/t.

I'm sorry but what we watch on TV does affect people's perceptions, and once a stereotype is cast its very hard to undo it.

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Originally posted by DianaBouvier:
I hated, loathe, and despised last night's episode so much so that I'm thinking about never watching L & O again. All it said to me was "dyke kills lover what else did you expect to happen?" I am so sick to death about these tragic stories where the nice lesbian couple can never, ever live happily ever after.

I'm sorry but what we watch on TV does affect people's perceptions, and once a stereotype is cast its very hard to undo it.

Ugh...sorry for the rant.

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I disagree in some aspects. Yes a lesbian was a murderer but why was she a murderer? Because of society, how she knew when it came out she was a lesbian her parents wouldn't accept her, her friends wouldn't want to be around her, etc...

Yes I'm tired of all the tragic ends of lesbian couples on tv and movies and I wish for more happiness but I don't think I will stop watching a television show because they showed it how it is. It's hard being yourself, it's hard coming out and alot of times people can't deal with it, they either deny themselves who they are, commit suicide and I'm sure in a few cases commit murder to pervent it.

Umm...well yes the killer was a lesbian but she was also captian of the cheerleading squad, popular and everyone liked her.

I don't love the show, and I hate how they pressured her to confess but I think it says more about how society is and the pressure on young people then it does on anything else.

I say again I'm sick of death, and unhappiness but I think in this case they did it to show something and I don't think this show should we should stopped watching it because of it.

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Originally posted by Righteous Babe:

BTW: For Mods, yes this is related to the board since it dealt with a killing of a lesbian.

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I'm sorry, but isn't this just a wee bit bitchy?
Am I the only one who is beginning to feel like people are just completely getting defensive and overly sensative to the fact that there are guidelines here that only some people pay attention to? Couldn't you have just put the Subject line as "Lesbian character on L&O tonight?"

-S

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Originally posted by Banshee:
I'm sorry, but isn't this just a wee bit bitchy?
Am I the only one who is beginning to feel like people are just completely getting defensive and overly sensative to the fact that there are guidelines here that only some people pay attention to? Couldn't you have just put the Subject line as "Lesbian character on L&O tonight?"

-S

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I didn't mean it to be bitchy and I apologize to the mods if they took it that way. I just wanted them to know it was related cause they probably didn't see the episode and might have assumed it was off topic and have closed it or have moved it.

i happened to watch this episode of law and order by accident. i sat with my roommate and we were both horrified, both being lawyers in the criminal justice system. im sorry, but the way she explained what happened, that wasnt murder, id be surprised if they could even prove it was manslaughter. it was an *accident*. and while they may have been able to use the "motivation" she had to kill the gf, which would have probably helped them make a case against her, since the jury would probably be somewhat amenable to thinking something is wrong with being gay, i think its bordering on unethical for prosecutors who have a duty to be objective and fair to basically blackmail this girl into taking a plea based on her shame and fear about who she is. i also thought this was a terrible message to send to anyone in america who thinks that this show is any kind of accurate representation of how the legal system works and just bolstered the idea that there is something wrong with being gay.

michele

[This message has been edited by rocketdyke (edited March 28, 2002).]

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Originally posted by rocketdyke:
shannon, i think you need a massage. youre too tense.

i happened to watch this episode of law and order by accident. i sat with my roommate and we were both horrified, both being lawyers in the criminal justice system. im sorry, but the way she explained what happened, that wasnt murder, id be surprised if they could even prove it was manslaughter. it was an *accident*. and while they may have been able to use the "motivation" she had to kill the gf, which would have probably helped them make a case against her, since the jury would probably be somewhat amenable to thinking something is wrong with being gay, i think its completely unethical for prosecutors who have a duty to be objective and fair to basically blackmail this girl into taking a plea based on her shame and fear about who she is. i thought it was bordering on unethical and also was a terrible message to send to anyone in america who thinks that this show is any kind of accurate representation of how the legal system works.

michele

[This message has been edited by rocketdyke (edited March 28, 2002).]

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Oh yeah, the legal system sucked all that episode but actually I wouldn't be surprised some laywers did that.

About the murder charge, I don't know how that works actually. She never intended to murder her but she did want to make sure she didn't talk and she did push her hard, so I'm not sure if they could use manslaughter charge or not. I don't know what needs to be proven for that charge.

depraved indifference and criminal negligence are not, however, just pushing someone while youre having an argument, unless youre standing on the edge of the subway platform, perhaps, or near a cliff or something. theres really no way that her death was a reasonably forseeable consequence of pushing her during that argument. so it would be difficult to prove it was manslaughter. depraved indifference kind of means that you pretty much knew how dangerous your behavior was and you didnt care that someone might get killed. like drag racing at night or shooting a gun in a public park or something.

the more culpable thing the girl did was not tell anyone her friend had died, i guess, but even that doesnt make it murder or manslaughter.

anyway. there you go.

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Originally posted by Righteous Babe:
BTW: For Mods, yes this is related to the board since it dealt with a killing of a lesbian.

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I don't think it's bitchy or anything. I would ask however, that if it's a thread that's on-topic for the board in a way that isn't immediately clear, a little bit of extra explanation or description in the thread title and the first post would be useful.

It helps Kittens casually scanning the board to know what the topic really is, why it's interesting and pertinent, etc. It gets people up to speed a little better if you want to get a nice discussion started.

The only disclaimers that are problematic or annoying are when folks say something (directly or indirectly) along the lines of:

"Mods, forgive me for breaking this rule, but...I'm just really excited or really angry or really just interested in doing things the way I want to despite knowing it violates the rules, so make an exception in this case or don't spank me or delete me only if you have to (if you insist on being mean)."

That is tiresome. But Righteous Babe didn't do that, so, it's cool. Carry on. (I didn't see it, so I can't really comment)

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Originally posted by rocketdyke:
shannon, i think you need a massage. youre too tense.

[This message has been edited by rocketdyke (edited March 28, 2002).]

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a massage from you--hell yeah!

and I now see what I meant to say was more how len said it.. with the influx of new people that aren't use to things, they don't tend to like to have their wrist slapped or their posts not replied to and I was getting a little annoyed with the whole thing.

So, RB.. I apologize

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Originally posted by Hugin:
I don't think it's bitchy or anything. I would ask however, that if it's a thread that's on-topic for the board in a way that isn't immediately clear, a little bit of extra explanation or description in the thread title and the first post would be useful.

It helps Kittens casually scanning the board to know what the topic really is, why it's interesting and pertinent, etc. It gets people up to speed a little better if you want to get a nice discussion started.

The only disclaimers that are problematic or annoying are when folks say something (directly or indirectly) along the lines of:

"Mods, forgive me for breaking this rule, but...I'm just really excited or really angry or really just interested in doing things the way I want to despite knowing it violates the rules, so make an exception in this case or don't spank me or delete me only if you have to (if you insist on being mean)."

That is tiresome. But Righteous Babe didn't do that, so, it's cool. Carry on. (I didn't see it, so I can't really comment)

-len

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Okay, I'm glad I didn't really break any rules. Next time I make the topic more clear so any mod passing by will no immediately.

It's just I wondered what people thought about the whole episode, how they got the conviction, etc. but it doesn't matter now. I will think more about my subject line next time.

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manslaughter, in new york and in most places, is usually killing someone by either depraved indifference to their safety or criminal negligence. or some other specific circumstances, like during or fleeing from committing a felony or helping someone commit suicide.
depraved indifference and criminal negligence are not, however, just pushing someone while youre having an argument, unless youre standing on the edge of the subway platform, perhaps, or near a cliff or something. theres really no way that her death was a reasonably forseeable consequence of pushing her during that argument. so it would be difficult to prove it was manslaughter. depraved indifference kind of means that you pretty much knew how dangerous your behavior was and you didnt care that someone might get killed. like drag racing at night or shooting a gun in a public park or something.

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Thanks for clearing it up, I wasn't sure exactly what the law is. I'm kinda surprised they screwed it up but I guess they thought they could take a little lee-way for the episode.

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a massage from you--hell yeah!

and I now see what I meant to say was more how len said it.. with the influx of new people that aren't use to things, they don't tend to like to have their wrist slapped or their posts not replied to and I was getting a little annoyed with the whole thing.

So, RB.. I apologize

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Honestly you don't have to apologize, I just wanted to make sure it was clear, I probably should have a more detailed subject line or something.
I was just wondering what people thought of the episode and well I never thought about it and I used the BTW: cause I know the mods are closing alot of threads lately BUT always because it's the right thing to do.

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Originally posted by Warduke:
I edited the thread title

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Originally posted by TyRex316:
Interestingly enough, L&O did an ep a few years back about a white girl who kills her black boyfriend because he was going to break up with her if she didn't admit to family and friends that they were involved.

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see, this is what i hate about law and order and law shows. they are not actually acurate about the law, and people find this surprising. and then people think they understand how the legal system that actually governs their *real* lives actually works, based on tv shows, and it disturbs me. especially since the country is set up to be a government by the people and all that.

but i digress.

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Originally posted by rocketdyke:
RB said: Thanks for clearing it up, I wasn't sure exactly what the law is. I'm kinda surprised they screwed it up but I guess they thought they could take a little lee-way for the episode.

see, this is what i hate about law and order and law shows. they are not actually acurate about the law, and people find this surprising. and then people think they understand how the legal system that actually governs their *real* lives actually works, based on tv shows, and it disturbs me. especially since the country is set up to be a government by the people and all that.

but i digress.
[This message has been edited by rocketdyke (edited March 28, 2002).]

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Originally posted by Hugin:
I think pretty much everyone who does something for a living or has real world knowledge of it tends to be driven crazy by the way it's portrayed on TV.

I mean, if I had a nickel for every time someone on TV or in a movie said something completely nonsensical like "All we need to do is reformat the T1 line and upload new RAM to the CPU."....

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Oh whenever I'm watching a movie that deals with computers, they better get it right or I will get mad. Especially since it is nothing to find out what the actual terms and how everything works together.

I don't get to watch 'Law and Order', but I believe that, depending on how they do it, they can show an ugly situation in order to criticize it. Then, showing a gay woman killing her lover can be done to denounce the pressure she'd been under, and how homophobia is the villain. But I didn't see it, so I'm just rambling.

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Originally posted by Righteous Babe:
Law and Order have done practically every side of a storyline it seems.

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They certainly have. There have been other episodes they've done that were sympathetic to the gay community and portrayed gay people in a positive light. If I remember correctly, Chris Noth's character was written out of the series by having him punch a homophobic city councilman, too.