The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:50 am 
I would like to request any help Kittens can give me for researching my essay which will focus on the online community around W/T. The course I'm writting this essay on is 'Queering Popular Culture', which I joined partly for the potential of integrating elements from BTVS into my academic work. And it worked too- I discovered some of my fellow students are big BTVS and W/T fans (not to mentions some avid Trek slashers-Trek beeing my second passion)

For my term paper, I chose to focus on online fandom communities, more specifically, the Kitten board. I kindly ask the moderators for some extra Kitten info, like the story of its creation, and a rough number of members.

I want to focus my essay on the importance of the way W/T are positively protrayed, as opposed to other lesbian characters in the media, and what this means both to gay fans of the pairing, but also for straight fans,since after all for many people, their views of LGBT people are shaped to an extent from Media representations. I fully intend to write a very positive essay on the Kitten, and will share the end product with you (if you're interested in my ramblings, that is).

So, some of the questions I have for Kittens are:

-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

And finally, for the mods: What urged you to create the Kitten?

Any and all help will be much appreciated. Thanks in adavance!



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:11 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

W/T to me is hope. They give me hope that I too can find someone who loves me. W/T is also just fun too watch, it's nice to see a lesbian relationship showed this way. nice, sweet, loving, caring and as any other relationship.
I think it's very important to society, because it shows people that there is nothing wrong about a lesbian relationship.
For media representations, I think this is important too, because (as far as I know) it's the first long term lesbian relationship, and it's showed just like a real relationship.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

On the Kitten I find people who share my passion. It is a real community, almost a family. When there's stuff I need to get off of my chest, I can come here and spill. When possible, people offer their help and advice. I don't have to be affraid on how people react here, I know I will not be judged by the kittens. I've made some great friends here. In hard times we stick together, and most of the times make things a bit easier for each other. That's what I love about the Kitten.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

Well, I know that I have been talking about W/T so much that my friends kind of already knew I was gay...so it made coming out a lot easier. I guess that, because they are portrayed so positively, I could 'use' them to show my friends how a lesbian relationship is beautiful and not scary or wrong.


Hope this helps you a bit...ooh, and I do want to read your essay once you've finished!!!

Patricia


------------------
"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[This message has been edited by wiltar (edited March 25, 2002).]



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:32 am 
Thanks you for the input, Patricia. I forgot to ask-does anyone mind if I quote them?

And yay! At least one person wants to read my essay! Now I will definetly post it (I expect it should be done in about 3 weeks).



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:37 am 
If you see anything in my answers that you want to quote, be my guest... I would feel honored

Patricia

------------------
"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:50 am 
What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

The other day I was watching a movie and Melanie Griffith and Harrison Ford were making out and I realized that I was sick and tired of watching heterosexual couples making out. Tara and Willow give me the oportunity to regularly see, if not lots and lots of kisses, at least a relationship between two lesbians that is beautiful and positive (and they will get together again so all will be well). Because it was done so thoughtfully and stuck in the middle of an already popular TV show using an already popular character, many people who may not have watched a show centered around a lesbian have been watching and changing their opinions. I think they've definitely paved the way for less sensational, more real portrayals of lesbians on TV.

What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

This place is amazing. All of the kittens who post here are so considerate and just nice and friendly. It was easy for me to start as a lurker and quite natural for me to start posting. I feel that in a relatively short amount of time, I've really become a member of this community. I feel like I can totally be who I am here without fearing that people will make fun of me or anything negative. It's a place of comfort that I can come to and, as Patricia said, get things off of my chest.

you're welcome to quote anything i said if you want

I'd also be interested to read your final product

------------------
~La

"No good sittin' worryin' abou' it. What's comin' will
come, an' we'll meet it when it does."
~Hagrid, from "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire".



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:32 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

W/T made me realize that what they have is everything I want too in a relationship. They made me realize that true love does exist in this world and you don't have to settle for anything less than that.

I think having W/T on TV will make people realize that lesbians are just ordinary, normal people who happen to fall in love with someone of the same sex. Cliche but true, love knows no gender.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

I'm a newbie here but have been a lurker for a long time now. First, I guess, is because we share a common love for W/T. Second, this is the only board I know where intelligent discussions are made. Third, though I still don't know much of the Kittens, I do think that they're really nice people to hang out with.

Shewolf, please do post your essay. I would love to read it too.

------------------
I love you as certain dark things are to be loved, in secret, between the shadow and the soul... - Pablo Neruda



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 5:53 am 
As a straight male, I was drawn to W/T because here was a relationship that genuinely seemed founded on mutual love and respect. In fact, with the sexual side only being hinted at initially, that strengthened the relationship, as they had to get across to viewers the depth of feeling involved without covering it by showing the couple romping in bed. So for media purposes, it is sending a message that gays can love each other, as straights are always shown to, and they can have the same insecurities (as with Tara secretly worrying that Willow will turn back to boys at some stage)as any other couple

As for the Kitten board - I enjoy reading the varied comments and positive viewpoints of the members, plus I feel pleased when I read that the W/T relationship has helped someone come to terms with their own sexuality. Happy news in a less-than-happy world.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:14 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

Again like alot of people have already mentioned, W/T relationship is special and is filled with love and thats what I want. I want to feel a love unrivalled and know the moment that i look into my partners i can see my love returned.
W/T relationship has given me hope, I have been in an unhappy relationship for nearly 3 years, all because I didn`t think that I was good enough or worthy enough of anything different. W/T relationship proved to me what love could and should be like.
And now I am free to find the love of my life.
They are both extremely strong role models for the gay community, and I feel that through this they can show that being gay etc isn`t bad or disgusting, it`s natural.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

I was first drawn to this place as I had become a spoiler addict and the longer I have spent here the more I have to come to love it. I really want to meet the other kittens, it`s great to find a place where people have the same interests as me and where everyone is friendly.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

I came out a long time ago but believe me it would have made my life alot easier if they had been around when i was 15!
I was constantly trying to find role models and never found any, they either ended up dead, manic or unhappy. It made me feel terrible, like that was what my life was going to be like. Urgh!
Watching Willow and Tara now fills me with pride, it makes me feel like anything is possible.

My 2p.

Rachelle

------------------
"I want you, but i`m not giving in this time.
Goodbye to you, goodbye to everything that I knew.
You were the one I loved, the one thing I tried to hold onto."

[This message has been edited by capricornmist (edited March 25, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by capricornmist (edited March 25, 2002).]



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:07 am 
Shewolf,

I am always very happy to help students in their research efforts, especially ones that demystify topics that are of importance to me. But what I ask in return is a follow-up. Post your results here or how your paper did. (which you said you would)

Do you need demographics? Sometimes those are helpful. If so then I am a married, 32 year old white male. I have an advanced degree (Ph.D.) and (gasp) 14 years of college. I have one child (a boy) and I spend about 5 hours online a day, mostly looking for a new job.
Let us know if you want more.

The Kitten has not really changed my view of LBGT issues. I have always had lesbian and gay friends, and relatives too for that matter. That is not to say that it someday won’t. I don’t pretend to know everything.


What do W/T mean to you personally, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
Personally W/T to me have always been about the hope of a perfect love and trust in a world that punishes those in love. Buffy’s world in not a nice place. The fact that Willow and Tara could find each other and build a relationship this special is a message to everyone, gay and straight, that you too can overcome any odds and find that one true special person.
Willow and Tara have always been portrayed as having a real relationship. They argue. They fight and they kiss and make up. While I do like Xander and Anya’s relationship, they always had issues that I don’t get (sorry, I wanted to be married at 21! Guys that balk at long term commitments baffle me) and Spike and Buffy was a horror show from start to finish. Neither of those filled me with much sense of hope. Willow and Tara do. I am in a relationship that is now and forever, she is my soul mate. To see what I have portrayed on the screen is great.


What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
It’s the chicks.
No seriously, I came here for a variety of reasons. None of which are as important as to why I stay. I don’t get involved in other Buffy discussion boards, I am not involved in other boards that deal with lesbian characters. I stay here because I have found not only a group of intelligent people, but a group of people that see these characters the same way that I do. When I say to people here “I love Willow and Tara”, I am not met with questions of “why” but responses of “I know.”
Now that is not to say I agree with everyone or everything here. I have had arguments with people on the interpretations of some episodes, things or some other characters. Nor do I suspect that will ever end. But this board is so good natured and, again, intelligent, that diverse points of view are welcomed as long as you remain true to the core. Willow and Tara.

For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictional characters had such a positive impact on your life?
Well. This does not apply to me. But I can say I have no problems holding my head up high and saying “Yes I am a Willow and Tara shipper.”
But it is obvious that more positive media images of Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Quesioning/Trans people and couples would help young people with their own lives.
We have all heard the quotes from Amber about how she hears from so many girls that seeing Tara made them feel ok about being a lesbian. I don't know what could be higher praise to an actress.

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
My Willow&Tara Pages: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/willtara.php
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
--
I'm ahead of my time. But only by a week.
- Too Much Joy, "I Don't Know"



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:10 am 
1. What do W/T mean to me? Hmm, watching them on the screen makes me feel all happy. Like there is some light at the end of the tunnel and there is someone out there waiting to share the same love and trust these two do with me. And they make me think naughty thoughts, but maybe you´d better leave that out of your essay.

What does their relationship mean for society? Hmm, on it´s own, not much. But it´s kind of a positive "rolemodel" for other shows. Only when gay relationships get portraied (sp?) in this positive light in more then just ONE tv show (and not one with that big an audience), will it affect society at large. It´s kind of a first step in the right directions, but other´s must follow in it´s steps and spread it´s ideas!

2. What draws me here? Hmm, people are nice and kind and helpful and talk about interesting stuff. It makes my life a little happier to go here and read or even write. And it makes me enjoy BtVS and W/T even more.

3. +4. No (past or future) coming out here, and neither am I a mod...


Hope I could help ya! Good luck!



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:14 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
It was the first time i had ever seen a lesbian relationship on TV that wasn't just about the hype. Its so great to see two girls in love and for that to come across.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
The people are just amazing, you don't find this kind of support everyday. Not just for the characters but for each other. Kitties are a wonderful group of people.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?
It wasn't W/T that influenced my coming out, but more the kitten board. Well more specifically the people I meet and talked to on the kitty. They helped me through a very difficult time and I owe them a lot (thanks again guys).

------------------
Beep, beep



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:21 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
Since i'm only young it was pretty much the first lesbian relationship i ever knew about and they showed me that it wasn't freaky or weird

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
naked oilyness in the spolierfree thread
nah seriously everyone on here is so tolerant and i always know that when i'm sad i can come on here and start laughing my ass off at some of the posts and especially a lot of the fan fic on the pens.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?
they just showed me that it wasn't freaky or weird to feel this way and they really helped me a lot in coming to terms with the fact that i am a lesbian[/B]

i wanna read the essay too!

------------------
Hannah's Home -- My Collective Creative Crap ;)

"Thank you Professor Higgins, after one lesson I feel I can speak perfectly."



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 9:23 am 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

W/T mean so much to me. I live in south america and everywhere I go there is a bad image of gay people. At home it wasn`t even mentioned. At school (I went to a catholic school) they didn´t like the idea of people being gay, and in the street they are so mean to gay people. So I had this feeling that there was something wrong with me for being a lesbian... and I felt so alone and so... Well, you know.
And then Willow, my favourite character ever turned out to be gay...
It really changed my life. I finally saw there was nothing wrong with me and for the first time in my life I opened myself to others.
And it really changed the way a lot of my straight friend´s thoughts...
Also it was easier for my little sisters to understand the fact that I´m gay and that there´s nothing wrong with it...
My mom first told me not to tell them but then we had a long chat and she understood...

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

It´s just the best place ever. Everybdoy is so understanding and so... I just feel connected with everyone. I`ve been a lurker for a long time now...and slowly I´m starting to post.
But really... there are days I just feel terrible and coming here makes me so much... I don´t know.. it cheers me up...

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

Well, I think I answered part of this question in the first one.
I guess before W/T I didn´t even have a.... I think I thought I was the only one on earth who felt that way and I realized I wasn´t and met a lot of great people and this changed me forever... this made me ME.

------------------
I have a theory. Some kid is dreaming, and we are all stuck inside his wacky broadway nightmare!



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:30 am 
Why the kitten??

Well the name was clever. So it was a " we have to go and see this." I love the way it is organized.

Plus it is very acttive.

But the reason we looked for a W/T board to begin with is because we first loved buffy. How ever the boards that we tried did not seem to as loving to willow and tara as we were. I still am shocked that tara is not as loved as some of the others seem to be.

All I can think of is that many people out there must still be more hung up than I thought.

I do wish that was a show a where to men are in love like w/t. I don't think that one will be coming any time soon.

Isn't great though to watch two people love each other. In the way that I would want my children to love and be loved by some one.

We have pulled out our teenager recently from local jr high school. One of the big factors was the fact that he could not walk down the halls with out hearing gay fag. I understand why they pick him out he is well read and more not in to sports. But when I brought up the fact that this was happening the school clearly new and was lazafare about. I now the teachers have to have heard it. When you know that much of thier student bodies is gay. what is it one out of ten? How many of those kids will be hurts physcaly? How many will kill then selves ( SP?). It made me mad.

The point is how many of the kids are watching and will watch and see two people who love each other. Maybe they are getting the idea that its not all that bad.
The truth is the more you see it the more you can no longer be affaid of it.

Today the "gay issues " are more than out there. We have such a long way to go. But its so much better.

I know with things like willow and tara that this will come to pass too. Some day love and respect camitment wil be what makes a family , marriage, friends, teachers, writers, music. Not who you sleep with and what goes where.

I think W/t are a big step towords there no longer being any gay issues.

Mrs. capt murdock



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:17 pm 
Wow, everybody, thanks for all the answers. I'm starting to feel really good about this essay-it's the first coursework I've done about something I love.

And Web Warlock, demographics could be usefull. What I want to stress in my paper is how the Kitten makes everybody feel welcome, regrdeless of gender and sexual orientation. I've alway felt comfy here.

What drew me in W/T was obviously their love, and the sweet, realistic way their relationship was portrayed.And plus...their general cuteness and speech patterns...aww! As for the Kitten, while it didn't really change my views on gays and lesbians, it educated me more on a lot of things-and was the reason I chose 'Queering popular culture' as an option in University. Now at least, when people get into conversations about sexuality, representation and subverting stereotypes, I have a better idea what they're talking about.
Not to mention that when the tutor in my Media studies core course brings up topics about discrimination against homosexuals, I can alway mention the latest post I read in the Kitten about horrible laws and judges. She's quite the leading queer theory academic, so it's her favorite pet subject.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:19 pm 
quote:
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
[/B]

1) For years television and film have portrayed lesbians and gays in films, some in a subtle way, others blatant. However, for the most part, "Hollywood" seems to have fallen into a sterotype when doing anything relating to homosexuality. Lesbians are big ole bulldykes or criminals or other negative connotations. For gays it's that "flamer" image with an overly feminine male strutting his stuff with limp wrists and a lisp.

As the new century rolled around a great deal of awareness came with it. Roles started to become more fleshed out, though they still fell into the sterotype. "Will and Grace" for instance. Will isn't necessarily a "flamer" but his friend is. Xena started to break away from that mold but stayed so far in the subtext of it that it wound up doing more harm than good, and even then that was a bit sterotypical because you had the "butch" and the "femme."

After Xena ended I decided to give Buffy a go, especially after hearing so much about Willow being gay. I tuned in to see "The Gift," but I was too far along in the story line to know what was happening. When "Bargaining" came along I was floored by the naturalistic way a lesbian couple was finally shown on TV. Neither one was "butch" or "femme." They both were just two girls in love. They didn't fall into the "lets go to a bar" or "lets have sex constantly because that's what the male viewers want." Joss meticuliously created this relationship at a slow and natural pace (in TV time at any rate) and showed that things were not always easy and not always hard. That a relationship takes time to work out, to learn each other, to trust one another.

Often in films and whatnot there's a major problem - someone cashing the hero or something similarly life threatening and the two leads are thrust into each others lifes (and beds) and they ride off into the sunset happily ever after. But that's not how things really are and W/T show that. Yes, they went through various life threatening events, but after which they didn't start shagging each other's brains out. They let their feelings slowly grow and as they grew to love each other you grew to love them as a couple.

Buffy is often over looked by other media other than to do articles on whatever seems to be the hot topic at the time, but the fact that the show is breaking the rules and breaking free of the standard molds in place for TV and film will hopefully catch on with others in the field and show them it may not always be the safe route, but the fans would prefer something more natural than the typical and current depiction of gays and lesbians on screen.


2) I don't recall exactly how I found the board, but I read some posts and decided to join in the conversations and have found that unlike many fandom chat rooms and message boards the Kitten is truly accepting. The Kitten's do not look down on anyone, do not belittle or scoff at anyone. If you have an idea, no matter how off the wall, there's always Kittens there to support it and nurture it to help it grow. They're there to give support to other Kittens in times of need and they share a passion for W/T which has bonded us all together in the first place. It's a safe haven, a place to turn to for uplifting (giving or getting), for talking endlessly about the show and W/T without having people roll their eyes at hearing "more stories" about the girls.

Okay, now that I practically wrote a paper in itself, I hope that helps out. I tend to ramble, as you can tell, so feel free to edit whatever you like if you want to use any of this in your paper. I'd be interested to see the end result.

------------------
Joining in the chorus of people pissed at Joss.

Mega Wi(t)ches site:
www.megawitches.net - FINALLY OPEN
Enlightened Member #243, BHS Member #70, Fragile member #308

"Hey, Giles. Sharp wheels." - Will
"The rest of the car's nice too" - Tara (Real Me)

"Besides, when is there any us two. You two are the two who were the two. I'm the other one." - Will (Yoko Factor)

"A doodle. I do doodle. You too. You do doodle too." Will (Gingerbread)quote:



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:06 pm 
The short answers...

What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
In a nut shell, W/T show us we don't have to be popular or in the "in-crowd" to find true happiness, that it comes to all, in one way or anouther. Although there may be obstiacles and consequences, their kind of relationshit can withstand it. It short... HOPE

What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
Up to date news on events and happenings around the world. Like minded people discussing a subject in a relaxed adn sometimes amusing way. A feeling of "I'm not alone".

I hope that was coherent and that you there is something of interest to you Shewolf.

------------------
Maj - (Creator of Willow's Room)

SFX: Where would you like to see Willow go in the sixth season?
Alyson: "I hope Willow gets taller, and she gets a tan."
- SFX Magazine, December 2001



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:08 pm 
Two questions addressed to me yay!
What urged you to create the Kitten?

The kitten was created as a response to be being obsessed with W/T. Shortly after w/t met, the onelist group Willtara started up (now a yahoo group). Shortly after that some of us began chatting daily. Around the time of NMR the traffic on the list became unbearable. So over the summer, vern, zelda and myself are staying up all night discussing minutia about w/t. And we get frustrated cause we come up with great theories, timelines and none of it gets saved cause it is in chat. We both frequent the cross and stake (on inside the web then) and we both really like that format for discussing. We also became frustrated that Willtara had no moderation and it was increasingly harder and harder to read plus we couldn't get into in depth discussion.

Also after NMR, the buffy online community was extremely hostile to both Tara and W/T. We wanted to be in control of what got posted. So we set up rules and created a place where Willow and Tara and W/T would never be bashed. The premise is simple, love w/t or leave the board. Personally, w/t struck a chord with me that is unmatched. I have faced different pressures to change the focus on the board and I have resisted because W/T are more than just a gay couple on tv, or a special couple on tv. They are the only long term lesbian couple, and it is majestic and grand in a way few couples (heterosexuals) ever are on tv. Buffy is a great show but it is not enough to motivate me to run this board and spend so much of my time on it.

So we decided to start a forum on Inside the web for us to have a place to discuss. We took all our chat buddies, and the beginning there were no more than 10 regular posters. Darvangi, JSR, BBOvenGuy, Judy, Zelda, Len, Wiccagrrl, Ruth, drlloyd, tyrex,(I know I am going to forget folks) and we moved here to novogate where we grew and grew and grew.

As far as member it is a tricky question. My stats tell me that the average since I have been keeping stats is

Page Visits
Total 780,109
Average per Day 2,261
Average Visit Length 9:15
Last Hour 588
Today 3,620
This Week 57,226

Page Views
Total 4,049,419
Average per Day 11,737
Average per Visit 5.2
Last Hour 1,443
Today 12,778
This Week 184,167

Page visits are people who log on for a session during the day (average of 2,261). And the page views are how many times our pages are loaded (average of 11,737). But we've had highs of 15,000 visits and 45,000 views.

However, lots of those are lurkers and I have no way of knowing how many are seeking spoilers or are in the kitten spirit. The nether realms tell me nearly 400 have signed up for the official listing, but I imagine not all kittens have signed up for that. I would estimate about 1000 regular kitties. Anyway, I never dreamed it would become this, and I hope in the end the community is bigger than Buffy.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 25, 2002).]



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:33 pm 
I'm sure this is more rambling than anything, but I hope it works. Good luck on the paper Shewolf!!

What do W/T mean to you personally, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

On a personal level its nice to see a lesbian relationship portrayed on a program where it is just there...its not a MAIN focus - but its not hidden either. I believe their importance for media/society is basically showing that there are alternative lifestyles out there and that it doesn't change who somebody is. In short - acceptance of all even if they're a bit different than you.

What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

I was drawn to the Kitten board for the fact that they appear to promote a POSITIVE environment. They don't tolerate the negatives and they don't allow speculations about A/A. I think that is a big key. Some places will allow and promote the trashing of people. I have yet to see that here. Big bonus, plus - its great to be able to talk about the 2 characters that have actually had an impact on peoples lives.


For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictional characters had such a positive impact on your life?

I didn't come out because of W/T - but I wish that when I did come out they would have been around. It would have made life easier for me!! Granted I did luck out in having a family whose response was simply "no shit." I know that there are a lot of people who aren't that lucky. I did have to deal with the "friends" who I no longer have because of my coming out -- but if you can't like me for who I am - I don't need you in my life.

------------------
A dream is a wish the heart makes.

Willow: "You had two eggs, sunny-side-up. I remember because they were wiggling at me like little boobs."
Tara: Sassy Eggs.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:05 pm 
What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

Hmm. Well, for me it's the first believable lesbian relationship on television. And I include the rather more permissive status of British tv in that as well. There's also the relatively young age of Willow and Tara; which, in my opinion, provides some kind of comfort for young gay people. We've seen the whole progression of the attraction, the issues, the problems and also the triumphs. And I think that last word is one of the most important. Willow and Tara have proved that a gay relationship can be happy and fulfilling; that it has a place to go; that there is a progression after the whole "coming out" story. That's what I love so much about Willow and Tara. Their getting together was just the beginning, and I think it's been a brave move for tv to show later stages in the relationship. I'm kind of proud of them and what they are as a couple.

In terms of what it means for society, well, perhaps I'm a little more unsure about this aspect. Working with children, certainly the profile of lesbian/gay relationships has been raised due to the large teenage audience of the show. But you know, it's not been terribly well received by the kids I work with. Their initial reaction was that they lost some respect for Willow, as the established character moving into a relationship with Tara. And the Tara bashing was unnerving as a result of this. But you know, it's been three seasons now, and nobody's going anywhere. It's ingrained into the show that Willow loves Tara and Tara loves Willow. And the beauty of that is that time teaches society lessons that preaching often doesn't. I'm just hoping that in time, we'll see more couples like this on shows that are accessible for young people.

What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

Oh god, so much comes to mind. I've been at the kitten since the beginning, when a handful of people from willtara drifted over here and posted on the original board. That was so great. It was like we had this special place where we understood and loved Willow and Tara for what they were to us. Since then of course, it's grown beyond all imagining. And I still love it. It's still the first place I come to when I get onto the internet. The influx of more posters means a wide variety of discussions, and I have to say, I've learned a lot more about gay issues coming here than from text books.

I like the feeling of community that is created here. There are a few people that I consider to be good friends that I have met from posting on the board and in chat. It's a nice group feel. Hell, I even love it when I clash posts with people, I mean, life isn't life without some friction.

The organisation of the board is great. The moderation is beyond wonderful. Really it is. I've come to depend on the mods for their consideration of everyone, and I know that it's a really hard job that they do. Perhaps they don't feel recognized enough; but I appreciate it. And judicious moderation helps to make this board what it is, I'm sure of that. That's why I keep coming back; it's a safe place.

Woah. I was totally sincere in this response. No bitterness. *checks forehead for a fever* What's wrong with me? Heh.

------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 7:20 pm 
What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
Personally and generally speaking W/T relationship is about us queers taking our place at the table. I remember in "Superstar" just how normalized MR made the image of gay and lesbian couples when X/A, R/B, and W/T were sitting and listening to the music. No special mention was made of it and it was just as made the clear pairs show within the context of the group. It was nice to see because, and with BtVS in the beginning, most shows (I'm thinking of Dawson's Creek right now when I say this) make special occassions or put special emphasis on the queer couple which contrasts to the relationships of heterosexual couples on the show. Straight couples are treated as on-going romances and gay relationships as sporadic trysts.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place? I am a big dyke-daddy Seriously though, the intelligent discussion of two of my favorite topics: pagans and lesbians.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life? This show has definately contributed to my "proud to be pagan" self; though I've been a militant homosexual for years. It should be noted that I am from Kansas and the Midwestern slant to Tara's character are frightfully real here.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 7:42 pm 

What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

Personally, I'm a shallow wanna-be kitty. I love W/T not because they're lesbians, not because I can relate, but because it's a good story, full of dreams and hopes and fun and angst and depth.

As for the media representation, it's good that I can find, on National TV, a show that has characters I can relate to, characters I can see act and speak and live and say "Hey, I did that! Hey, that reminds me of something!". Willow and Tara are a good exemple of a real relationship. Granted, fantasized with the magicks and the eternal and the levitation But they have a day-to-day complicity that is rarely expressed on TV. Especially in a gay couple. Which is why it's specially important to me. Good, real, romantic and gay? That's a portrayal ME should carry with a proud smile.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

The lack of prejudice, most definitely. The freedom of speech, the realization of self through other posters' experiences, the tremendously intelligent responses and discussions. The little icons and quotes beneath our names are cool as well Plus, the background? Very stylish.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

I actually haven't fully come out... I've got this huge feet still inside... I've told friends, family, but I think I haven't told myself. I have a girlfriend, my parents are being extremely nice to us, so are my friends. But there's always that part of me that's afraid of meeting new people and having to tell them. Seems like my life is one big coming out I can't get out of... As for W/T, they did influence me. Not about coming out, but about what it meant to be a lesbian. Most lesbians I knew were those butchy females acting and dressing like boys. I wanted to be a woman, a femme, with a femme by my side. Willow and Tara showed me that was possible. And that it was good.

_______________________

I hope my responses will help you. For statistical purposes, I'm almost (Good God! In less than 2 weeks!) 19 and live in Montreal, Canada.

Thanks for posting this... I actually feel good about answering something like that. Puts things in perspective... Mmmm... perspective.

------------------
Tara: No, see, 'cause your insect reflection represents your insignificance... in terms of the karmic cycle.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:05 pm 
-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?

* i think it helps people realize that being gay isn't really a disgusting 'thing' to be. i guess it shows people how normal we are and the way we express love, and generally ourselves. for me? it justmakes me know that i am not alone in the world and it is okay if i am feeling this way.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?

* i love this place because i can totally be myself. i can be without apprehensions and worries that people won't like me. it's total freedom.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?

*uhm... not out yet.

------------------
"Knowing I was a lesbian transformed the way I saw, heard, perceived the whole world." -pat califa



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 8:11 pm 
Please feel free to quote and I would like to read your essay.

-What do W/T mean to you personnaly, and what do you believe their importance is for media representations, and society in general?
I personally love watching the interaction between W/T. It makes my heart feel good to be able to turn on the TV and see two women in a loving relationship with problems just like everyone else.It does get old watching a bunch of straight people make out and have sex. I love having W/T be an option on TV.As a bonus my wife and I both like the show, which is a rarity. Society needs to have more representaions of positive gay and lesbian characters. The media is hugely influential to people and as bizarre as it is I think what people see on television will help make that difference.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?
What draws me here is several things; I love W/T and here I don't have to feel weird about it. I love being able to rant for a moment and read other rants. Its a safe place for everything for, people thinking of coming out,people who have been out for ages,discuss or ask any question.

-For Kittens whose coming out was partially influenced by W/T, why do you feel two fictionnal characters had such a positive impact on your life?
I came out seven yrs. ago but, I think W/T have made it easier for alot of people. Willow and Tara are positive for me because they clearly love each other and maybe for the rest of the world thats good, too.

And finally, for the mods: What urged you to create the Kitten?

Any and all help will be much appreciated. Thanks in adavance![/B][/QUOTE]

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Sugarloaf
"Due to the recent presidential elections, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off."



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:58 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by Shewolf:

I want to focus my essay on the importance of the way W/T are positively protrayed, as opposed to other lesbian characters in the media, and what this means both to gay fans of the pairing, but also for straight fans.

-What draws you to the Kitten? What do you love about this place?




Okay for me Willow and Tara's relationship was, in a way, life changing. Before Willow/Tara I was, to say the least, very homophobic. I was brought up in a family where homosexuality was frowned upon and God help you if you actually turned out to be gay! However through Willow/Tara I met all these people on the boards who were just like everyone else. They have feelings, thoughts, oppinions and such and so my views of the world hae been EXTREMELY changed and continue to be changed each and every day because of the people at the board.

What draws me to the Kitten is simple - I love the many people who, no matter what, are kind, thoughtful, thought provoking and generous (everyone think of all the videos/cd's you've had sent to you or even the help given when you have a problem/need help with an essay/or need to find a website).

There's my input! :0

*~Kristy~*


------------------
"Do you love her?"-Willow
Tara stroked a hand over
Willows cheek. "Not
like I love you," she
whispered..."Not yet."
Wonko's The Wish
quote:



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 2:24 am 
Again, thanks to everybody. All your articulate answers will not only be usefull for quotes, but they gave me a few fresh ideas for the line of arguing I'll use.

Now I have to go do the less fun part of research-reading theories. I predict spending a boring day getting acquainted with Michel Foucault.



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 Post subject: A plea to all Kittens.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:44 pm 
This board has lots of cool options and little messanging tools I can use, and it's on BTVS. "Nuff said!!!

------------------

quote:
Mommy & Daddy have the best cocaine, Ritalin's never gonna be the same.

-'I'm Bouncing off the Walls Again' by Sugarcult

Image

[b]Sopranna[/bquote:



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