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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 7:19 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by Arat sevol Wolliw:
I saw Jodie Foster's Date!!! She was cute!

Who was she? And was she actually her date? The only times I saw Jodie, she was standing alone.
Sarah-B.
quote:



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:11 pm 
jumping into this thread very late...

normally i detest long oscar acceptance speeches, but i was riveted by halle berry's. this was the first time i've ever seen someone cry at an awards show and felt like it was genuine. i don't think she really believed that she'd win the oscar no matter how amazing her performance was, because of the academy's history of ignoring black actors. i know *i* didn't believe it for that reason. in her place, i would have had an equally intense emotional reaction.

and it was so, so important for her to recognize all the black actresses who'd gone before her and not gotten the recognition they deserved from the academy. i feel that this was easily one of the most important moments in oscar history.

and quite frankly, in my opinion they should have given enya 3 fewer minutes and halle 3 more.

there's no comparison between halle's speech this year and gwyneth's a few years ago. gwyneth was just crying for herself. halle's tears were for 74 long, long years of insult, neglect and prejudice finally coming to an end. it was an amazing moment, and halle acknowledged it in a classy, impressive way.



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:09 pm 
*deep bow* Happy to make your acquaintance, btw, Judy. I don't think we've met before. And eloquent as always...I wish I had been as thorough in making my case as you.

T.

------------------
"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:32 pm 
Halle. Berry.

Please...

------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 9:44 pm 
Thank you, Ruth. If we're gonna be discussing Ms. Berry's win, we can at least get her name right



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 10:18 pm 
All4W/T: How should I have read the paragraph below which to me is a pretty straightforward comparison of homophobia vs. racism? Am I missing something? (I am not being snarky here; I really am confused about how else to understand the statement).

"Since racism is still alive and well, it scares me to death to think of how long homophobia will be around..Because while it is utterly unacceptable for people to be prejudice against blacks, hispanics, indians whomever, it is still acceptable to be prejudice against gays and lesbians..By people period."

BTW I cannot find your original post and I don't know if it got lost in a board blip or if you deleted it or if I am blind and slow and am not seeing it. The first post I see is Toni responding and quoting you. But if you did delete it then it makes it harder for me to engage in a dialogue with you about this because I can't go back to read your original post and respond to your comment that I misread what you were saying. If it's still in the thread, please let me know. I know that the above statement of yours in conjunction with some of your original comments about Halle Berry's speech and your argument that racism isn't alive and well in the Academy gave me the impression that you were saying homophobia is a more serious problem than racism. If that is an incorrect take of your words, my bad. I just don't like seeing a Hierarchy of Pain and Oppression set up where various groups fight to be seen as the most victimized and ignore ways we discriminate against one another or hold power and privilege in some areas.

quote:
Im saying its a different type of prejudice, not the same as racism..Have i ever been a victim of racism, no i have not..Does that mean i dont understand what it likes to be discriminated against, no it does not..

My intent is not to offend you..It is strictly the way i feel..It doesnt make me a bad person or a racist or insensitve to the struggles of people of color...


I never said you were a bad person or racist or don't understand the pain of discrimination. I was annoyed by your opinions and don't agree. I did put that reaction of mine out there very strongly in my post.

For the record, I happen to think all of us who grew up (or have lived in the United States) for a lengthy period of time have been influenced by the biases and oppressions that make up the foundation of how this country is run and how it makes it profits. I don't know you but I like to think (and do think unless proven otherwise) that your intent is not to offend me and that you believe discrimination is wrong. However, I disagree that discrimination is discrimination. Unfortunately, I think things are a lot more complicated than that. Just because I have experienced homophobia and/or racism and/or sexism doesn't mean that I can automatically can translate *my* experience onto what it is like to be discriminated against because you are transgender or grew up poor. This doesn't mean that I cannot educate myself about those particular struggles. That is my responsibility to do so. I don't always do it gracefully or successfully or at all (I've been defensive and belligerent) and I've screwed up along the way, but I try as hard as I can to recognize where I have privilege and how that may impact the lens through which I view the world -- and how it affects others in my community and how *I* have discriminated against others. I think it will be a life's work and struggle. We can all resonate with the *feelings* of being discriminated against, but I think we all need to go further than that to undo the various forms of oppression which have hurt us individually and collectively.

Case in point: there are queer people on this board (and off) who have dismissed Halle Berry's speech and found it too race-centric. There are white feminist woman who have said similar things (off this board). Yes, I am personally really troubled by those sentiments and reactions. No, I will definitely not change anyone's mind about this.

And so, I don't want to derail this thread off the topic of the Oscars too much as this feels like an exercise in futility. It was upsetting to me to see some of the reactions to Halle Berry's win because it felt dismissive to me of the complex realities of racism and how it functions in Hollywood and the Real World. That's why I spoke up in the first place. Frankly I am now at the point where all my buttons are being pushed and I feel like it's pointless (and probably irritating for others) for me to go on and on about my beliefs about this matter and about racism. I am starting to feel like I am getting way too didactic for my liking, so I am taking a break from this thread. And bringing out that old "agree to disagree" clause.

EDITED TO ADD
I came back and edited this post several times to make it clearer and more on-topic with Berry/Oscars. Just an FYI.

[This message has been edited by judy (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by judy (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by judy (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 11:27 pm 
Oscars were great. I had a contest at work and we all filled in who we thought would win before hand and I got almost all of them right. I wish Memento had won one, tho.


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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 11:59 pm 
Judy, you're eloquent and awesome and spot on. I don't think it matters it was slightly off of the original topic, it's an important issue and this one little thread is just the tip of the iceberg reguarding the years and years of systematic oppression of people of color in the U.S. You're very brave and outspoken.


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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:21 am 
Judy, As Kieli said, you have stated your case very eloquently, much more eloquently than i have apparently..I wasnt saying there was NO prejudice in the Academy, just that i didnt believe that it could be as deep as some people have said it is..Does that make me naive, probably so..

Id like to thank all of those who corrected my spelling..I wasnt sure how to spell Halles' last name so i took a shot..Trust me it wasnt done on purpose..So snipe all ya want about it..

And before anyone else jumps on the bandwagon, I said i dislike discrimination, period...I detest and abhor racism especially..

Judy has experienced it more than i and has said so in a sensitive, thoughtful, eloquent manner..I on the other hand obviously didnt explain myself in the same way and have now been misinterpreted and misunderstood..My bad..Im outta here...

[This message has been edited by All4W/T (edited March 27, 2002).]



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:23 am 
All4W/T: I hope that you will still be posting on this board. I am checking out of this conversation as well, but I hate to think that our disagreement or any misunderstanding has resulted in you ditching the Kitten. I will be the first to admit that I can take these things personally (well, because, they are personal) but I am trying not to personalize it to the degree where I am making attacks on people's character in my head or heart or in a post. I reserve that for the trolls.

EvilAnya: Thanks for your kind words to me.



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 8:46 am 
Reiterating Judy's sentiment that I let this one drop as well. I also must apologise if you thought that I was attacking you. That was not my intent. My intent was to figure out the basis for your dissent and attempt to understand your differentiation between racism and homophobia.

While I do not have the gift for lengthy explanation, I do hope that I have at least made some clear arguments and posed some rational questions.

I also repeat Judy's request that maybe you would like to give the rest of the Kitten a chance and stick around for a while. Dissenting opinions happen on a regular basis here so, join right in.

Toni

------------------
"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes



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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:02 pm 
I can't believe I'd missed this thread. So I want to give thanks to the fellow dykes of color here who jumped in and explained things way better than I could explain them. I think it is too simplistic to separate the "isms" and analyze them that way. I know as a latina lesbian, I do not walk around measuring the impact of the forces around me. Yet it is also too simplistic to say that one doesn't carry more weight than the other. It depends on circumstances, communities, individuals. Yet one must never ignore them or disregard the impact they have on everyday living. I could be more specific but then I would go way OT. But thanks Judy, kieli!


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 Post subject: OT - Oscars
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:14 pm 
One of these days, Xita, you and I need to have a real conversation....like cuppa joe, sidewalk cafe-style conversation. I wish you'd come a little earlier. Would've been great to hear your thoughts on this. I wasn't anywhere near as prolific and elouqent as Judy. My experiences are limited and my mouth seems to get me into trouble She was the voice of reason.

T.

------------------
"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes



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