General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

chronic · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:23 am

just read the spoilers about Willow and Tara's love scene in ep19, and i'd just like to say:

WOOHOO!!!

and its about time. how many times have we seen buffy doing the wild thing with various men, and Xander and Anya sucking face, while W and T have had about 4 on-screen kisses, none of which were super-passionate. and i bet this scene gets heavily cut when the BBC finally get hold of it. still, as long as they keep doing the late night, un cut repeats I'll be happy.

edited to add:
ok, Hugin's comment wasn't there when i started writing this post. point well taken, but we can hope.

------------------
Now you can tell some lies
About the good times that you've had
But I've kissed your mother twice
And now I'm working on your dad.

[This message has been edited by chronic (edited March 21, 2002).]

capricornmist · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:25 am

I can`t see UPN doing a full on love scene with W/T, well I don`t know are they that brave? I think we will see a heavily cut version or a post sex scene.

*sigh* well I can hope for more but I don`t think my heart could take it!

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:27 am

Yeah, you're right Len. I shouldn't jump to conclusions. Darnit

wiccie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:39 am

If Ed's correct about the 2-hr season finale, that moves ep18 to April 30th, putting *all* the new eps in Sweeps. Good business, but bad for spoiler-hungry fans.

We know that W&T have major passionate smoochies at the end of ep18, and whether or not the "nude" scene Amber mentioned is pre-, post-, or during hot girl-on-girl action, I'll be happy. Although I'm still pining for that tastful shower scene.

Also, I'll reiterate my theory that W&T have at least 24 hours of make-up sex (whether we see all of it onscreen or not); from the goodies at the end of ep18 to the ickies at the end of 19.

Just a theory...

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 21, 2002).]

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:42 am

Wiccie, I like the way you think, girl A 24 hour W/T lovefest. Very nice thought.

kitten scout · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:16 am

Has anyone heard if there will be a funeral for Tara? If not, maybe it's because she won't be dead long enough!

Web Warlock · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:18 am

I am fairly sure Ed is right about the two hour season final. I remember hearing/reading something like that on SciFi.com over the summer. UPN *I think* wanted it as part of the deal.

But hey I could be wrong.

But I do have a question. I can't remember if I asked this before, or if it even got answered. My search through the threads only made me dizzy.

Does ME have any clue what this is doing to us? And by this I mean Tara all dead and Willow all evil?
Another question I guess is, Do they care?

I mean you can get into that whole artist crap about not being influenced by the public. But it is the public that pay your bills, so...

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
Jesus saves. Allah forgives. Buddha shows the light.
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:20 am

I think that the last four episodes will take place in the span of 2-4 days just like last season. They probably won't show a funeral because there's no time to show that. It seems like these episodes will be fraught with action, and Tara's funeral would take too long. Besides, Willow goes off the deep end upon finding Tara's body, so I don't think a funeral's foremost in her mind.

Web Warlock--I tend to agree with you about ME. They do OWE their public, and I personally will feel incredibly betrayed if they opt for apathy. You don't create a loyal fan base by destroying characters. That's a surefire way of alienating an audience. But, if ME is hell bent on being melodramatic, then by all means...

--Sela

[This message has been edited by Sela (edited March 21, 2002).]

wiccie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:34 am

Warlock (love your sig, BTW - do you know they sell plushy Cthulhu dolls? But I digress...) I have no doubt that Joss & Co. know exactly the effect they're having on the fans, and that it is the desired result.

They want to take us on a great big emotional rollercoaster ride, and they're doing a hell of a job!

We're talking about the show and we'll be glued to the tube to see what happens.

The thing is, we've never been on *exactly* this rollercoaster (just similar ones from past seasons) so we're all freaked out because we don't know for sure where the ride is going. To stretch this analogy further, we've been thru lots of loops and drops, and now we're cranking up a huge incline.

We know there's a free-fall coming soon, but we have no idea what comes after that at the end of the ride. All we can do is reason, guess, panic, stay calm, or "insert individual response here".

I, for one, have never been disappointed by Joss at the end of the rides. Yeah, it gets scary or happy or weird along the way (just like a real rollercoaster), but at the end I'm jumping up and down yelling "Wow! What a freakin' awesome ride! Yay Joss!".

So have faith, my kittens, esp. if she's naked.

oh, and thanks Tracy - my 24-hour sex theory got buried in the Neg-O Land bandwidth of the last thread. Maybe my sexy theory will have a new life here.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 21, 2002).]

Scarecrow · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:43 am

Been a lot of theories, misery, denial, jumping buses and all that so I thought this would help to keep us in a good mood. :-)

I lived my life in shadow
Never the sun on my face
It didn't seem so sad, though
I figured that was my place
Now I’m bathed in light
Something just isn't right

I’m under your spell
How else could it be
Anyone would notice me?
It's magic, I can tell
How you set me free
Brought me out so easily

I saw a world enchanted
Spirits and charms in the air
I always took for granted
I was the only one there
But your power shone
Brighter than any I’ve known

I’m under your spell
Nothing I can do
You just took my soul with you
You worked your charm so well
Finally, I knew
Everything I dreamed was true

You made me believe

The moon to the tide
I can feel you inside

I’m under your spell
Surging like the sea
Wanting you so helplessly
I break with every swell
Lost in ecstasy
Spread beneath my willow tree

You make me com-plete
You make me com-plete
You make me com-plete
You make me—

------------------
Trust In Joss

"Liberate tutemet ex inferis"

"Me and Willow always know how to find each other"

"Black mircles, dark wonders, another life of unknown pleasures"

"There are some corners of the Universe that have bred the most terrible things, things that stand against everything we believe in. They must be fought"

wiccie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 11:49 am

Cool Scarecrow, but the correct lyric in the last verse is:

"surging like the sea,
*pulled* to you so helplessly"

Ms. Psycho Pep Squad, signing off.

Cici · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:00 pm

But *wanting* you so helplessly is so much better.

Am i right?

About a "love scene" ..... i don´t think that will be a REAL love scene! It´s only a snuggle bed scene... we´ll see!

Bye
- Cici

Scout · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:07 pm

quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
We're talking about the show and we'll be glued to the tube to see what happens.

But that's no longer a given. I've said this before (and I swear Xita this is the last time I'll repeat myself ) but by going to these extremes they've practically guaranteed I won't be tuning in. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Right now I have absolutely no plans of watching anything beyond right before Tara dies. Reading about it is hard enough - I can't imagine watching it as well.

I love Joss and I'm very grateful for all he's done, but you can go too far and alienate the fans to the point that they stop watching - even if it's only for a few episodes. It's a fine line they have to walk and I think there is a danger in going too far.

quote:

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:09 pm

Cici, yeah, I guess we'll see. We know we get a fairly passionate kiss in ep 18. (See first post) We know Amber mentioned a naked (well, with modesty clothing) bed scene. How much we see on screen, we'll see, but the implication seems to be make-up sex.

Considering Tara gets killed shortly after the make-up, I actually wouldn't be a bit surprised if we did get an actual love scene. Y'know, just so we get the highest highs and the lowest lows. Or maybe the actual love scene will wait until they bring Tara back (thinking positively here)

[This message has been edited by Wiccagrrl (edited March 21, 2002).]

stilldragons · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:11 pm

Delurking for a quick moment to ask: where did Joss state that the entire season was encapsulated within OMWF or that the clues for the finale were provided within the ep? I really need to know his exact quote because I think that it may be important.

Thanks, Kittens.

---stilldragons

Popje · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:11 pm

You know we should have known better that when Joss said “Tara’s becoming the heart of the show” , that he really meant, “So that means we can rip it out and stomp on it and therefore inflict major pain”. Unfortunately, as a character-plot driven show, Tara’s death the one factor that would push Willow over to a serious power-trip and “Dark Phoenix” (side note: X-men’s classic comic story arc wherein a red-headed responsible heroine, Jean Grey who has telekentic powers gets zapped with cosmic rays that give her “god-like” powers, but unfortunately she gets corrupted by the powers and goes evvvvvill and can kill planets and hurts a whole bunch of folks. She chooses to go supernova when her loved one manages to bring some awareness and conscience of the old heroic Jean back to the surface. Rather than hurt her friends she blows herself up.)
We’ve been going towards Willow’s dark side for a few seasons now, and it seems her real rage and power comes to the surface when experiencing big grief. If Tara stays dead –then there’s two options. Willow stays bad (Giles in Flooded says “"Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them." Willow: "No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy.”) Or, as others have pointed out, she goes on a suicide run (we’ve had hints that dark magic can devour the user – sic Sam in As You Were says there were these shamans and they got heavy into the black arts, “there was nothing left”).
So do the writers plan to save Willow? Well I hope so. The only thing worse than having Tara hurt is having Will hurt. But who will save Willow? If she becomes unstoppable, which will probably be the case, as how can the Scoobs stop her? She knows their every move, and they are handicapped because they love her. The only way I can see her being saved is if Tara comes back…sigh wish fulfillment I know… But I see Tara as the only one that can “find” Willow and save her. It won’t be about Willow finding Tara, but of Tara finding Willow (to me this would be in keeping with the reversal-parallels in story lines of S5 vs S6).

drlloyd11 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:15 pm

quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
Warlock (love your sig, BTW - do you know they sell plushy Cthulhu dolls? [This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 21, 2002).]

My 3 year old son has one! I taught a 3 year old to say "cthullu"! I'm so proud..
Ok, there are no new spoilers.. so its filler time

[This message has been edited by drlloyd11 (edited March 21, 2002).]quote:

Katie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:19 pm

Regarding the love scene, I don't know how much you can get away with on US TV but didn't someone mention that a lesbian kiss on Once & Again rated highest in its time slot? I am sure UPN will be aware of this, even if ME do not want to use W/T as ratings winners, maybe UPN do?

Regardless of how explicit the scene is when comparing it to Spuffy, I think it will be a lot stronger than anything we have seen before. According to what has already been posted about same sex relationships on US TV, and I hope I'm not out of line saying this, but if Willow & Tara were seen to be more physical, it may bring in more casual viewers?

I am not to sure on the guidelines for US Tv, as I am British, so I am not sure what the network would be allowed to show.

------------------
What can't we face if we're together?

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:24 pm

Well, I think it depends on the station. WB had a Standards and Practices division that pretty much vetoed all lesbian sexual interaction. Joss had to fight for the kiss. But UPN is totally different. They don't have such a department, and from what I understand they're more liberal with it anyway. Also, UPN is a fledgling network. It needs rating and BAD. So I don't think they'd veto anything unless there was proof that it was bad for ratings. That's just my take on it.

As for the actual love scene, I could see how it might just be post lovemaking, but I also remember Marti saying something about lesbian sex being the "next frontier." I'm just gonna wait and see. Either way, I will be pleased because it's more than we've ever seen. I'm just excited about seeing an ACTUAL long kiss. Still, I'm not looking forward to what will follow the love scene.

--Sela

[This message has been edited by Sela (edited March 21, 2002).]

greep · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:24 pm

Hurrah for ratings-grabbing W/T snogs!

Web Warlock · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:26 pm

wiccie and Dr.L,

Yeah! I was going to pick up a cuddly Cthulhu for my 2 year old when we were at the game store last week ("see this stuff over here, this is why no one talked to daddy in high school..."), but he looked at me like I was on drugs or something.

Back to the topics at hand.

Right. Roller coasters are great, but you know the ride is short and you have good reasons to believe that your will get off with the people that got on with you.

If Tara dies, and stays dead, this is not a roller coaster, it is a train wreck.

NOW, far be it from me to influence anyone...but if you don't want to watch the rest of the season after the coffee, food, kisses and gay love, then just down load the clips. You are not watching the comericals, thus not not enfluenced to buy, thus not buying, not giving money to companies who pay UPN...but I am going to watch my TV.
I'll just fast forward through the comericals and make a mental note of which products I won't be buying in June.

If there is one thing I have learned in this world. You want to effect something, hit them where it hurts the most, and money is the root of a lot of pain.

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
Jesus saves. Allah forgives. Buddha shows the light.
Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:30 pm

Great suggestion, Web Warlock. Shame on them if this isn't rectified by season's end. But in the event that it does happen, we all have a choice. You can continue to watch and pump money into it, or you can just download the clips and not worry that you're providing steam for the Buffy engine. I'm still hoping that it's *not* a train wreck, though.

--Sela

The Big I-T · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:33 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Popje:
The only thing worse than having Tara hurt is having Will hurt.

Well, Tara's not just going to be hurt; and Willow's not just going to be hurt either. Tara's going to be dead and Willow's going to be both emotionally and physically devastated. The idea of any harm coming to even a hair on either of their heads is enough to give me acute belly rumblings. But this latest thematic twist of the knife is way on the other side of unacceptable to me. The only thing that is going to make it possible at all for me to watch those scenes play out -- even though I remain steadfast in my belief that some sort of reversal is on the horizon -- is knowing ahead of time just how Joss and Company are going to make things right for them by the end of Ep 22. And by "right", I mean both of them alive, together, safe, and happy.

Somebody, anybody, new POSITIVE spoilers please...and SOON!

--jr

quote:

drlloyd11 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:34 pm

I was at a gaming con last month and someones 18 month old was pretending to roll percentile dice..
He even had high/low down right..

Sometime I'll tell the story how he can tell the differnce between half-life and quake and has a preference..

quote:
Originally posted by Web Warlock:
wiccie and Dr.L,
Yeah! I was going to pick up a cuddly Cthulhu for my 2 year old when we were at the game store last week ("see this stuff over here, this is why no one talked to daddy in high school..."), but he looked at me like I was on drugs or something.

quote:

BBOvenGuy · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:35 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
But that's no longer a given. I've said this before (and I swear Xita this is the last time I'll repeat myself ) but by going to these extremes they've practically guaranteed I won't be tuning in. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You're absolutely right there.

I owe Buffy a great deal. The first season was what got me back into writing. The fanfic I wrote at the end of Season 1 and the beginning of Season 2 showed me that I could actually write in prose and enjoy it. I was inspired again in Season 4, and the stuff I wrote then showed me that I could put more emotional depth and feeling into what I wrote.

But that was then. This is now. The show is on the verge of becoming poison to me now. It has lost all of its balance and fun, and it has me fretting and worrying most of the time instead.

I start the first draft of my next book on April 15. If we haven't found a good reason for me to keep watching Buffy by then, I won't be watching the rest of this season, and I might not come back for next season either.

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited March 21, 2002).]quote:

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:42 pm

Right now, I'm in the "wait and see" camp. I've already gone on record as saying that, if things aren't "ok" by the end of the season (meaning Tara and Willow both alive and together) I will not be bothering to tune in next year. Too painful, too little enjoyment, and frankly this latest turn of events just feels...insulting to me on a level it's hard to explain.

That said, a lot can happen. And we may not have much info until very close to the finale. So I'm gonna try and hang in until then.

sparrow · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:04 pm

*as I sit at the back of the bus*

does anyone have a refill of tequila or sam adams cause all this negativity and waiting for the aforementioned steamy scene is so draining, need more to drink.

------------------
"I may be loves bitch but at least I'm (wo)man enough to admit it"

"Yea baby, I'm back"

theatremouse · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:09 pm

yeah so about this two hour finale dealio, fill in my meager little brain, when they do two hour shows are pt 1 and pt 2 usually written by different people?

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

xita · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:15 pm

You know if things turn out ok in the end I will watch, but I certainly have lost my trust and joy in the show. And I most certainly would want it to end next year.

And if things don't turn out ok, yeah def. not watching.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 21, 2002).]

Dave V · **Posted:** Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:16 pm

quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
...BTW - do you know they sell plushy Cthulhu dolls?...

My wife has two different kinds. Steve Jackson Games sold scores of one type at GenCon last year.

(Patiently waiting for actual spoiler information to appear...)

quote:

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

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