General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Caesar · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:36 pm

quote:
Originally posted by AutumnT:
The interview did not say this. I think this is conjecture that we should not necessarily attribute to Marti. I think it is unfair to judge her motives based on someone's hypothesis about her here.

I have heard from some reasonably good sources that Marti is pissed that spoilers for Tara's death got out. Episode 20 is her baby and she wanted everyone to be shocked. However, you are right that might not be her motivation for angering the fans, but it just seems too much of a coincidence. quote:

AutumnT · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:42 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar:
I have heard from some reasonably good sources that Marti is pissed that spoilers for Tara's death got out.

I imagine she is. I would be if I were her as well. However, I think to subscribe some sort of revenge vendetta to this is silly. What she's so mad we found out about Tara's death she'll what? Kill Tara? It really makes me uncomfortable to see people deciding what a writer must be doing or feeling because they do not like it.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

Megan · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:42 pm

Delurking to say that I for one think that's exactly what ME is trying to do...alienate everyone that is.. These writers are smart, and they know exactly what buttons to push to rile us up. I just hope that they don't think when all of this is over, and they somehow fix this mess, that we will forget the pain that we as fans have been put through. I feel used.

tommo · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:48 pm

I like feeling used.

And excuse me, but isn't it the sign of a good writer or writing team to pull the audience in so much that they get emotionally involved in the show and the characters?

Woah, really long sentence there...

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

fontaine · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:49 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar:
I have heard from some reasonably good sources that Marti is pissed that spoilers for Tara's death got out. Episode 20 is her baby and she wanted everyone to be shocked. However, you are right that might not be her motivation for angering the fans, but it just seems too much of a coincidence.

I guess that makes us even then since I am not terribly impressed with her right now

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"It was inconclusive and I didn't stick around to find out. I might have magic'd my fist through a wall or something - Willow (Normal Again)quote:

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:05 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar:
I have heard from some reasonably good sources that Marti is pissed that spoilers for Tara's death got out. Episode 20 is her baby and she wanted everyone to be shocked. However, you are right that might not be her motivation for angering the fans, but it just seems too much of a coincidence.

Um, I thought Tara dies in Episode 19, which would NOT be her baby. Everybody would know by the time HER episode aired. Am I wrong?

I would *hope* that MN wasn't so vindictive a person to go on and change a story just because she's upset that spoilers got out. That's the risk you run when you produce a show that fans feel so passionate about. You want to know everything about it, and it's gonna get out, especially if you're not as careful with the information as maybe you should be. I remember the X-Files used to print their scripts on red paper so that no one could photo copy them. I'm not saying I'd like this to happen, but aren't there ways to prevent such leaks? I don't know. It just seems like such a stupid reason to kill Tara off indefinitely. Geez, there are spoilers about Spike, Buffy, Willow, Jonathan, Warren, Dawn, Anya, and Xander too. Is she gonna kill all of them off indefinitely?

Here's to hoping reason prevails!!!

--Sela

[This message has been edited by Sela (edited March 29, 2002).]quote:

Popje · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:07 pm

I agree with Autumn T, we can't contribute reactions to writers based on hypothesis and say, "oh she's angry" or "Joss isn't around so it's his/her fault". Personally, althought spoiler leaks might tick the writers off, I doubt it concerns them to the point of changing plot lines. 5 million fans don't read spoilers. And even those that go online, not all want to be spoiled. So thinking Marti would stick it to the fans, because a small percentage found out about them - makes no sense. Spoilers are like skipping to the end of a book. OK it's not fair to the story or anticipation or surprise. But some people just like doing it. I think the only time the writers really want to keep spoilers locked down is for the finales, as these are more likely to be picked up by major media.

Megan · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:07 pm

Yes Tommo, being emotionally invested in a show is a sign of a WONDERFUL writing team. However, the writers are choosing to walk a very fine line with the story they are telling this season. It is one thing to have your audience on the edge of their seat waiting with bated breath for the next episode. It is another to have,notjust causal viewers, but diehard fans who have been with the show since the beginning not being able to watch because it literally causes them pain. Insulting the fan base in interviews doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I love the show, but I can't help but feel that I'm being played. I understand some don't hold my opinion, but I felt stongly enough about this to post...an extreme rarity.

VampNo1 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:08 pm

I can't see how Marti can be all that pissed that fans found out Tara dies in episode 20, because rumours about her death have been around all season. The same goes for Willow turning evil. Maybe if the writers tried to do a storyline that was original where fans would be totally surprised at the direction at the show I would have more faith in Marti and the other writers. To me Marti and ME is just pandering to the audience that wants all this evil and depression so why is she surprised when fans know the plot before it airs on the tv.

AutumnT · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:08 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
I remember the X-Files used to print their scripts on red paper so that no one could photo copy them

Which by the way did not work either as I am the proud owner of a photocopied red script from the movie.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

eccentrictulip · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:10 pm

well, i just have one question....so, the spoilers about tara's death got out....and she pissed at the fans... um, why is that exactly? it's not our fault somebody leaked somewhere along the line....i can understand why she is--when you're making stuff like this, especially something so explosive, naturally you're doing it to shock and surprise people, but on the flip side, shouldn't she just be greatful that the show has such devoted fans and actors, writers, etc, etc, who make us all care so much about these characters?

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~*i know she's watching that star...gonna twinkle...*~

Willowlicious · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:11 pm

BTW, I took a look at the new BtVS promo Aylandi mentioned. Anya's clip is indeed new. She says to Buffy: "Okay, let's talk about torture."

Also, each of the regular characters are mentioned in the following manner and order: "The Slayer, The Vampire, The Witch, The Demon, The Smart Aleck and (here's the interesting part) The Key to the Future of the Universe. Oh, really? Since when? The writers said Dawn wasn't the Key anymore and what's with this "Future of the Universe" stuff. Is this just some vague, inaccurate description of Dawn's former powers in order to refrain from calling her The Little Sister in the promo? Or is it something else.

Don't know. Just thought I'd mention it.

The Next Tara Maclay · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:15 pm

..Hmmm never thought of that.

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:26 pm

Humm...whatever the future holds for W/T, whether Tara's death/Willow going evil is indeed permanent... I think we should brace ourselves for some, shall we say, not too sensitive comments when the eps hit the air. Have a feeling the party line is gonna be more "Oh, get over it" then "We feel your pain, hang in there, it'll get better." JMO, but this article from Marti seems to indicate this is, at the very least, Marti's public attitude at present. (Not just in terms of W/T but the fans in general)

Elz · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:28 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Willowlicious:
The writers said Dawn wasn't the Key anymore and what's with this "Future of the Universe" stuff.

*Dawn* said she wasn't the Key anymore, in a piece of classic ME misdirection, which she immediately qualified by saying "even if I am..."

I won't be at all surprised if Dawn's keyness factors into the last two eps somehow. Or plays a big role in next year's events. Not because of the promo, just because it makes sense.

Elz

quote:

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:28 pm

quote:
Originally posted by AutumnT:
Which by the way did not work either as I am the proud owner of a photocopied red script from the movie.

Well, there you go. There will be leaks NO MATTER WHAT. Big or small, spoilers will abound. So, the writers should be pretty used to it by now. That's why I think it's just too petty to retaliate against fans because of it.

--Selaquote:

the literary exterminator · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:31 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Willowlicious:
BTW, I took a look at the new BtVS promo Aylandi mentioned.

All right. You made it sound interesting; now I have to check it out. You got a link?quote:

morgan1707 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:34 pm

Marti Noxon maybe pissed but really, she must have known it was coming. Something this big was surely going to come out eventually. And anyway, I don't always think spoilers are leeked on purpose. I think sometimes they are leeked by the shows themselves to generate interest. I mean, if we didn't know about Tara's death in episode 19, we would all watch, but would the casual viewer? The answer is - probably not.

And Caeser - would you care to elborate on your spoilers?

And Autumn, are you the same Autumn Tysko (sp?) who does spoilers for The X-Files? Just wondering...

Willowlicious · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:39 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Elz:
*Dawn* said she wasn't the Key anymore,

I'm sorry, that's what I meant by 'the writers.' I just meant it appeared in an episode. And no, it wouldn't surprise me if they did more with The Key storyline. I'm just surprised that the first tangible hint of that possibility comes in the form of a promo.

LE, the link is www.vidiot.com. Hit the "New" icon to the left. It's actually not that interesting. All old clips except for Anya.
quote:

BBOvenGuy · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:47 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar:
Ms. Noxon is really pissed at the fans right now about the spoiler leaks, especially Tara dying, and she is taking it out on the fans. By insulting B/A and B/S she just pissed off more then half of Internet fandom.
[snip]
She is screwing over the W/T fans as well and from the spoilers I am getting I very much doubt there will be a reset for Taras death.

Okay, for the record, I still consider these "spoilers" you're getting from your "very special sites" to be unproven. I'm not saying you're wrong or that you're lying. I'm just saying I'm skeptical, and will remain so until a proven source verifies something you've told us.

Your post here seems to be implying that Marti willl now make Tara's death permanent because she's ticked off at us for finding out about Tara's death to begin with. I strongly doubt that's the case. Aside from the fact that Joss Whedon is supposedly still in charge and even when I'm at my angriest at Marti I wouldn't accuse her of being that immature, the simple logistics involved in such a major plot change are probably too huge to make it possible. Back in Season 4, we saw how they had to scramble when Seth Green and Lindsay Crouse bailed unexpectedly. Do you really think they would put themselves through that again just because they were having a temper tantrum?

I think if Tara's return was always planned, it'll still go forward, and if it wasn't, then it still won't happen. Marti's fit of pique isn't going to change that one way or another.

That said, everyone has raised some very good points about Marti's attitude in this interview. Once again it looks like Buffy is turning the end of the season into a suicide run with regard to its fan base. She continues to insist people will be happy with the end of the season, which is her job, of course. But if she really believes that when she's trashing popular characters and relationships right and left, she's using more spin than James Baker during the Florida vote recount.

quote:

AutumnT · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:50 pm

quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
And Autumn, are you the same Autumn Tysko (sp?) who does spoilers for The X-Files? Just wondering...

Perhaps I am. Check my profile for a clue.

And Again. I have to say you are putting words and ideas that are your own onto the writers if you call them "petty to retaliate" and the like. I am just as sad. Just as upset. Just as frustrated as anyone here. But people. Please. You don't know the writers. You don't know their motives. You don't know how they feel. Do not pretend that you do in your frustration.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

Sela · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:51 pm

quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
I think if Tara's return was always planned, it'll still go forward, and if it wasn't, then it still won't happen. Marti's fit of pique isn't going to change that one way or another.
That said, everyone has raised some very good points about Marti's attitude in this interview. Once again it looks like Buffy is turning the end of the season into a suicide run with regard to its fan base. She continues to insist people will be happy with the end of the season, which is her job, of course. But if she really believes that when she's trashing popular characters and relationships right and left, she's using more spin than James Baker during the Florida vote recount.

Can I get an Amen, for Bob? And how about a hearty Halleluiah? Couldn't have said it better myself, and trust me, I tried.

Um, and also, I don't think there is a retaliation, but I guess my point has been lost. That's why I'll just agree with everything Bob has said.

And I wouldn't presume to assume anything about the writers--this season has taught me to stay far away from that type of speculation. Yes, I'm frustrated, but I wasn't presuming anything about the writers, I was merely asserting that in my opinion, it would be petty to retaliate. Again, JMO. If it came off another way, I apologize. Just wanted to make that clear.

--Sela

[This message has been edited by Sela (edited March 29, 2002).]quote:

Beatie · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:56 pm

The promo is here. Right click and "save as" is the best way to do it.

I'd like to add this SFX spoiler makes sense to me and reminds me of a similar post earlier in the season when the "My Grandma saw Marc Blucas in a cafe" spoiler came out. It's not trying to be clever it's just passing on a little something. The hefty vengence demon theme this season is telling us something. Right now the thought of watching the Tara's dead now and Willow's evil now stuff is totally stomach churning - *like I'm alone* - but I don't think Joss is a fool, or a meanie, or vindictive, and I don't think he's far enough away from the show to let it go to the dogs. I believe we'll get a major catharsis, but then there'll be a pay off. Joss knows his Shakespeare and this season is one of the Romances. There'll be a happy ending, bet ya.

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Beatie :^D
Keeper of Willow's Magic Addiction
Mother of Willow Intervention

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 29, 2002).]

fontaine · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:58 pm

quote:
Originally posted by VampNo1:
I can't see how Marti can be all that pissed that fans found out Tara dies in episode 20, because rumours about her death have been around all season. The same goes for Willow turning evil. Maybe if the writers tried to do a storyline that was original where fans would be totally surprised at the direction at the show I would have more faith in Marti and the other writers. To me Marti and ME is just pandering to the audience that wants all this evil and depression so why is she surprised when fans know the plot before it airs on the tv.

Exactly and if this was such a problem then why would they go ahead with something that has been rumoured since Tara appeared on the screen? - OK that was an exaggeration there but I am sure you know what I mean

Edited to add: I just downloaded this generic promo and Tara can be seen in two old clips so she is not being totally ignored

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"It was inconclusive and I didn't stick around to find out. I might have magic'd my fist through a wall or something - Willow (Normal Again)

[This message has been edited by fontaine (edited March 29, 2002).]quote:

Wiccagrrl · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:00 am

Yeah, I'll add an Amen to that. I'm not thrilled with the tone of the article, and I think Marti does take some swings at the fans there, but I'm kinda doubtful anything much changed based on spoilers getting out.

the literary exterminator · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:01 am

quote:
Originally posted by Willowlicious:
LE, the link is www.vidiot.com. Hit the "New" icon to the left. It's actually not that interesting. All old clips except for Anya.

Sigh ... you're right. I guess I just got caught up in your energetic prose. Thanks for the quick reply, though. quote:

BBOvenGuy · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:02 am

quote:
Originally posted by fontaine:
why would they go ahead with something that has been rumoured since Tara appeared on the screen? - OK that was an exaggeration there but I am sure you know what I mean

I know exactly what you mean - and it's not an exaggeration. quote:

Incarnadine · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:04 am

Interesting promo. Was it a case of misdirection by running Willows de-ratting of Amy backwards or did it show Willow re-ratting Amy? It was pretty quick and hard to tell.

Lijdrec · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:05 am

Actually, I think there's a ray of Mutant Enemy hope in this statement....

quote:
From Marti Noxon by way of Wanda:
We're going to throw Buffy a bone or two. And I think, ultimately, people will be happy with the balance. There's so much cool stuff about to happen--in a way people are not expecting.

But whose is the other bone they're throwing at Buffy???

[This message has been edited by Lijdrec (edited March 29, 2002).]quote:

sophia · **Posted:** Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:16 am

I've been spending way too much time on spoiler boards these last few weeks. I need a job.

Anyway, I have two comments about the MN interview. First, I've read that Joss plans his story arcs out a couple of seasons in advance. This means that anything concerning Tara's death has been in the works for a while.

Second, I wonder why the spoilers of Tara's death are so much more a big deal than Buffy's last season? I knew Buffy was going to die before I saw The Gift because I read it on a spoiler board. Why is Marti so upset that this spoiler has gotten out?

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

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