General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Kamil · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:39 pm

quote:
Originally posted by fontaine:
I know what you mean, I lost my grandmother last year after she had a long battle with cancer and about 3 weeks later I watched "The Body", I was going OK until Anya's little speech and then I lost it. The thing is it helped because a lot of what she said was pretty much the kind of stuff that was going through my head at the time and

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother; that bites. In one of the universes little ironies, "The Body" aired 15 years *to the day* after my mother died -- from complications from a brain tumor.

Fortunately, I knew what the ep was about, and sat down with a *large* drink, a box of kleenex and said, "Okay, Joss, show me whatcha got."

Another drink, and many kleenex later, I was impressed as hell. The man captured the shock of loss as well as I'd ever seen it done. Using an old, obscure Whoopi Goldberg reference: "I take my scarf off; I take my motherfucking scarf off to Joss."
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--
Kamil
Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."
"Heartthrob" Angel

[This message has been edited by Kamil (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Kamil (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:

Ari · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:52 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Kamil:

Another drink, and many kleenex later, I was impressed as hell. The man captured the shock of loss as well as I'd ever seen it done. Using an old, obscure Whoopi Goldberg reference: "I take my scarf off; I take my motherfucking scarf off to Joss."

I know what you mean. Lost my Mom right around six years before I saw The Body. It was Tara that got me, though. When she was sitting there, trying to be strong for everyone and told Buffy how she had lost her Mom.

Especially the part about how it wasn't sudden, but it's always sudden.

Everything about Tara in that ep just reminded me so much of myself it was positively eerie. I could have been saying those same words, except I was 21 and not 17 when I went through it.
quote:

invisigoth · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:06 pm

I remember the night "The Body" first aired my roomate's friend from back east called and said between what sounded like tears that my roomate shouldn't watch tonights episode. My roomate's mother died suddenly the year before. It turned out she watched it with some other students at a professor's house.

Afterwards she said that she didn't know if she liked the direction the show was taking, but whoever wrote the episode must have experienced something like it because it seemed very real. She still watches it with me occassionally, but she doesn't like how depressing it has gotten recently.

I hope she's not around when Tara dies, because while Joyce's death was poinant, this is just going for the melodrama.

Ari · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:15 pm

What worries me the most about the story we've got coming up is that I'm afraid it's going to be much harder on my partner than it will be on me.

Because while I am very much like Tara, she is quite similar to Willow.

So for us, it is going to be a bit like watching something horrible that could almost be happening in our own lives. I'm not tremendously thrilled about that.

I understand that's just who Joss is as a storyteller, though. So I'm having faith that I won't be disappointed in the end, because he hasn't disappointed me yet.

fontaine · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:24 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Kamil:
I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother; that bites. In one of the universes little ironies, "The Body" aired 15 years *to the day* after my mother died -- from complications from a brain tumor.

Thanks, sorry about your mother too

quote:
Originally posted by Kamil:
[/b]Another drink, and many kleenex later, I was impressed as hell. The man captured the shock of loss as well as I'd ever seen it done. [/b]

Exactly what I thought as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Kamil:
[/b]Using an old, obscure Whoopi Goldberg reference: "I take my scarf off; I take my motherfucking scarf off to Joss." [/b]

Ah yes Whoopi (huge fan here) I think that comes from the very thing that I get my handle from - "fontaine, why am I straight" one of the most original and clever stand up shows I have seen.

In any case I have to believe that there is more to this whole thing than what we are being told, or as I said before, the writing on this show is getting so bad that perhaps it's time for them to call it a day.

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"It was inconclusive and I didn't stick around to find out. I might have magic'd my fist through a wall or something - Willow (Normal Again)

[This message has been edited by fontaine (edited March 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by fontaine (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:quote:quote:

Nic C · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:26 pm

Good thoughts on B/A Xan/An parallels, Ari. Makes me feel a lot better about the end of the season, actually. Going off 'The Body', EC has her own ability to bring on the tears, and I could definitely see how it would complete her storyline if she chose redemption. Also, good catch those who pointed out Anya's invested too much of her humanity in Xander, and needs to find it for herself.

Is Xander/Anya the big slow-boiling storyline that's been coming at us all season? Or even since 'Restless'?

Maybe this will be depressing in a slightly less gratuitous way than we fear... but I don't wanna lose Anya, either! Who'll make all the fab sarky comments? Without her, where's the humour going to be - precious little of it already

Nic

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No sun, no moons, no stars over Al-Rassan.

Alicat · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:27 pm

In relation to what Ari said, my partner has many elements that are similar to both Willow and Tara. So watching one die and the other mourn, it will be so hard for me. I think I'm on the band wagon of taping and then waiting until I can watch all the shows together.

At least I heard yesterday they are gearing up the lesbian plot again on ER this Thursday. At least that's something.

JoeWithAnE · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:34 pm

oh my god fontaine that same thing happened to me in may last year. she died the day intervention aired over in the uk and i was in hospital at the time with a burst appendix. I really understand so if you ever wanna talk please email me, i was the same until i saw willows face and then i just lost it.

theatremouse · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 1:46 pm

quote:
Originally posted by ready4scully:
Then there was an exchange between Tara and Willow, that I might be reading too much into, but I thought I'd post it here cause it made me think. They are in Tara's room and Willow is playing with Miss Kitty.
Willow: I keep thinking, okay, that's the cutest thing ever. And then she does something cuter, and completely *resets* the whole scale.
Tara: Did you see her yawn earlier?
Willow: Yes. *I thought I was gonna die.*
There. That's it for now. Just thought it was food for thought.
Justin

dude ya know i'd say you likely are reading too much into it, except that sounds to me precisely like the sort of dialogue we would talk about later, after some plot thing having happened. you know? like "be home by dawn" and then we all talk about that now that we know what it means.... that conv is a very jossian sort of dialogue that very well might mean something later. or i think so at least.....

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote:

EvilAnya · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:04 pm

so if there's a reset it might be miss kitty fantastico to push the button? or maybe she is the button? Well now, that would be a twist. Miss Kitty and her power to turn back time with her magical yawn. It would be cute.

Ange · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:24 pm

I can't stop imagining Tara's death. And like Bob said, i really don't know what we'll see or what to expect. But that it'll be slow or fast, with or without Willow holding her. It still hurts so much.

Ange.

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"Things are not always what they seem to be...." Shakespare.
"Once you're fallen for me, you stay fallen..."

Blue77 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:24 pm

I just want to say one thing ...

HAVE FAITH

I'm on the FAITH BUS ... I'm not religious, I'm not in the reset camp, I'm in any camp where Tara lives!!!

And I think she will be alive ... it's a gut feeling, nothing more.

I think JW/MN/ME are probably laughing their arses off right now, we know Tara dies and we're all pissed off and threatening not to watch the show, but we will watch it until Tara is definitely DEAD FOREVER.

We all know the positives, we all know the negatives - it would be repetitive and boring to list them here.

A few important thoughts/points to remember:

1. I think there will be a reset/wish granted of some kind but it won't involve memory loss, cause nobody would learn from it and ... we all know JW & MN want them to grow up!

2. MN said the season would kinda have a cliffhanger but she said it in relation to Buffy, and it doesn't seem major (I don't think we'll have to wait until season 7 to find out whether Tara is alive). I think this has to do with Spike , him having his chip removed has to be important, especially when I read in an interview with James Marsters recently that he said 'Spike has always been bad, always will be, you take that ship out of his head and he's gonna bite people' (I think it was SFX/Feb)

3. Amber Benson's not acting like she's lost her job (I agree with Bob here) and Aly H said she hates being evil willow because she's scared the fans won't like her. We know how much JW loves them both, would he really fire Amber? and make Aly hate her job?
I think not people!

4. MN's mum is a lesbian, JW has gay friends & both have said that they are very conscious that because it's a gay relationship they didn't want it to be a cliched curious thing and they've taken pains for them to be together - Can't remember who said it but one of the writers said, if Willow had met a guy after Oz, we would have broken them up by now.

Plus, Deknight said Tara would die over his dead body, and when questioned on the beta bronze about the Tara death scene, he said 'you haven't been reading those nasty spoilers again, have you?'

5. Why move to UPN when they were planning on killing Tara off anyway? JW said the only time WB really pissed him off was over the kiss in The Body.

Jump on the faith bus Kittens ... it's free, it only takes a leap of faith and if I'm wrong and my gut feeling that everything's gonna be okay isn't right - then I'll eat all my Buffy tapes and go on a televised hunger strike ... until they bring her back

*The force is strong with this one!!*

Sam

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"We must have kissed a hundred times ...It was very nice." ~ Amber Benson

"After one take, [Buffy creator] Joss [Whedon] did say, 'Can we have one [kiss] that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes?' " ~ Alyson Hannigan
The Body

fontaine · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:29 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Willowlicious:
Thanks, Fontaine.
See, that's the thing, up until this point, BtVS was actually helping me deal with my grief.
[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 27, 2002).]

Exactly - Willow and Tara were and still are my form of escaspism from it all and really did help me get through it without cracking up. Which is why this news hurts so much - even more loss, ENOUGH I SAY!

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"It was inconclusive and I didn't stick around to find out. I might have magic'd my fist through a wall or something - Willow (Normal Again)

IP: Logged

GreenNeutron · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:30 pm

I'm right there with you Sam I don't want to give up... and I can't help the optimism.

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~Mel

Random Ass Webpage

willowtarasandwich · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:40 pm

Blue77 - thanks for your post - seeing it written like that gives me more hope (and I'm in need of it now)

And to all you Kittens who have lost somebody or are losing someone, I think you are wonderful. I haven't lost anybody, thank God, but I doubt I could be as brave as you all are. I only hope Joss reads your stories and realises what a major influence in people's lives his stories are.

BigMac · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 2:47 pm

I was talking to my Aunt who is big fan of the show and told what is going to happen.She said something that was true when ever they change a character from bad to good back to bad that is the kiss a death for the character. Now for a character to go from good to bad back to good means they live for another day or get a spin-off. She TV shows have always been that way since the 1950's. So have HOPE Kittens

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Tara:Assume Crash Positions

tommo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:04 pm

Please...not the bus again. For the love of all things Tara...

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

CPS Boy · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:50 pm

I like the bus! Its a good bus! *sticks tongue out at tommo, grins mischievously and leaps gleefully onto the bus*

I, for one, plan to enjoy the ride.

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The good fight, aye?

[This message has been edited by CPS Boy (edited March 27, 2002).]

Kamil · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:57 pm

quote:
Originally posted by NLL:
I agree with those who say that Tara's death and Willow going bad will be a repeat of what happened last season with Glory. What exactly is the point? BtVS has quite clearly run out of ideas (which is why Buffy & Spike are having sex - have the producers overdosed on sick fanfic?).

Hey! A little respect for those of us who like a little monster in our men, please. It's fine if you don't like it, obviously, but I think calling it (and by extension those of us who do), sick is pushing things a bit.

quote:

The ideas it has it can't even do well - for example, if you are going to make Buffy & Spike get together, have some build-up or
some sexual tension.

Say whaa... Huh? No build up, no sexual tension between Spike and Buffy? Did you miss "Crush" "Intervention" "The Gift" "Afterlife" and "Smashed"? Seems to me like they led up to it quite nicely, and if there's no sexual tension in that relationship -- remind me to duck if I'm in the vacinity of a relationship that you do think has sexual tension.

quote:

It might be too much to hope for that the producers will keep the W/T relationship after 2 or 3 seasons but why can't they even write it out in a half-decent way?

Well, ya know, some of us do think the writing has been just fine and dandy so far this season -- fresh ideas, interesting plots, hot-as-hell sex, and ever so much lovely dark chocolate angst and suffering.

So can you please try to express your displeasure with the season without implying that those of us who do like it are as half-witted as the writers. Pretty please?

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Joe: "You watch your ass, MacLeod."
Duncan: "It's not my ass that I'm worried about."
Methos: "Did I happen to mention about all of this coming to a bad end?"
Duncan: "No, Methos, I don't think that you did."
Highlander: Endgame

[This message has been edited by Kamil (edited March 27, 2002).]quote:quote:quote:

Walker · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 3:58 pm

Y'Know, I like the bus. It's a fun party bus. But do you know where I like it best? On the daily thread. I don't want to be a meanie, it's just you come here and get all excited about the pages and pages of spoilers. But there are no spoilers. Just the bus.

xita · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:04 pm

Let's drop the spike talk eh? Yes? Everyone can nicely express their like or dislike of spike and b/s but don't argue with each other about who is superior. Remember it's a w/t board, if you can't find stuff to talk about w/t , then go somewhere else.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 27, 2002).]

DaRebel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:08 pm

This is my first time on the 'spoiler board', and if I'm saying something that's already been covered, please excuse me. I just wanted to throw a question out there, . . .where ever THERE is!
Maybe I've been reading TOO many of the fics' over on the other board, (IF that is even possible!!) Anyway, IF the spoilers I've read prove to be true, as far as ep. #18 is concerned and the 'promised Willow & Tara reunion', does it seem to anyone else besides me that it just comes a little too easy, or quickly, or both? As I said, I guess the fics have spoiled me. They take their time, fill in background, work up to things in a natural progression. As far as the TV show goes, we haven't even really seen Will & Tara have a serious sit-down talk/confrontation.
Am I just overthinking this whole thing/ (People tell me that I tend to do that!) Let me know what you 'guys' think.

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"No, no potions. It's not magic, it's chemistry. You can tell by how damn slow it is!" Willow 'Doublemeat Palace'

Hugin · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 4:23 pm

Fanfics have the luxury of focusing on whatever plot element the writer intends, at whatever length the writer desires, without regard for the practicalities of television pacing, episode length, season length, or other characters and thier plots.

I personally think it's been well long enough.

I think thier separation has been agonizing.

I think that we've seen quite a few scenes that demonstrate that they have remained apart despite still deeply loving and desiring each other.

I think they've shown that both of them recognize this state of affairs as necessary, though painful for both of them.

Therefore, I think thier reconciliation is neither too easy nor too quick. Tara was strong enough to leave Willow when she needed to, and if she decides it's time to go back to her, I'm not going to second guess that choice, it doesn't ring false to me after the things I saw in Normal Again, Hells Bells, and Older and Far Away in particular.

I want them back together, comma, dammit. The spoilers I've seen describing how it happens seem sweet and funny and organic and romantic and sad and happy and loving and sexy and real to me. I'll take them.

But that's just my opinion as a guy. Not a 'guy'. So take it with a grain of salt.

-len

Kamil · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 5:04 pm

quote:
Originally posted by fontaine:
Ah yes Whoopi (huge fan here) I think that comes from the very thing that I get my handle from - "fontaine, why am I straight" one of the most original and clever stand up shows I have seen.
In any case I have to believe that there is more to this whole thing than what we are being told, or as I said before, the writing on this show is getting so bad that perhaps it's time for them to call it a day.

Heh. I should've thought of that myself -- when my eye was caught by a glimmer of gold off in the corner. LOL I adore that entire tape -- it's one of my most cherished possessions.

ObW/TaRef: Wouldn't you love to see Whoopi do a riff on their relationship? I suspect she'd rival Aly in not-so-oblique references to Miss Kitty. Even so, I suspect she's a Buff fan and a Will/Tara girl -- she has great taste; how could she not be?

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Joe: "You watch your ass, MacLeod."
Duncan: "It's not my ass that I'm worried about."
Methos: "Did I happen to mention about all of this coming to a bad end?"
Duncan: "No, Methos, I don't think that you did."
Highlander: Endgamequote:

juri-sempai · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:01 pm

Reading over the Marti Noxon interview in the Buffy magazine I was struck by:

"I think the overwhelming theme this year is about growing up. It's about when you're finally faced with adult responsibilities and realities."

Could be a clue. Possibly. Maybe. I don't know. But it struck me anyway and I thought I'd post it.

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Reincarnation: the futile attempt to get the milk back into the can

"I'm a blood-sucking fiend! Look at my outfit!"

BBOvenGuy · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:09 pm

An update on location shoots - unfortunately, the update is that there are no more location shoots on the schedule at the moment. There are two more weeks left after this one in the shooting schedule for the season, so we've still got a chance for one or two more. We'll see.

One thing, though - word on the grapevine is that the Buffy people are trying to figure out how fans keep finding out about their shoots. If they get too worried, they might start being stealthier in how they get notice of their shooting permits distributed to the public and the authorities in the area where they'll be working. That would be a bad thing.

On another note, going back to theories for how the season might end. There's been a lot of good discussion of the possibilities, but to me the simplest storyline is still the one where things are reset by Anya granting someone a wish. That would also create a kind of "cliffhanger" to the season, because Anya would be stuck as a vengeance demon and you wouldn't know if we'd ever see her again. Note that that idea is roughly similar to what Ed the Spoiler has been telling us, except that Anya doesn't die.

There's no more evidence for that scenario than there is for anything else, but the fact that it's simple and doesn't involve digging up clues from past episodes that most audience members won't remember. So it could happen.

Caesar · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 6:26 pm

****New Spoilers
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*
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When Spike returns from Africa without his chip Buffy is forced into making a heart wrenching decision.

[This message has been edited by Caesar (edited March 27, 2002).]

with catlike tread · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:18 pm

keep the 'faith' - remember:

1. tara is a 'goddess' (figuratively, of course)

2. its easter

(oh, i mean 'its easter' in the coming back to life sense, not in the ascending into heaven and giving spiritual guidance sense.)

chocolate is good for the happiness.

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taran-tara taran-TARA

BigMac · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:26 pm

Hey BOB is there a chance that they might do the rest of the shoot on the lot and pull the wool over everybody's eye's and keep the spoiler hound's at bay. Joss and ME can't be that smart to do dirty trick like that would they?

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Tara:Assume Crash Positions

KatyQ · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:30 pm

Hey all, it's been a long time since I've posted, I'm a lurker extraodinaire. (hmmm... so long I just had to re-register)

Been following this whole thread, don't quite know what to think about it all. So we definitely know Tara is going to die and we're pretty sure there's going to be a reset. Now I'm not saying I don't want a reset, in fact I think there *will* be for logistical TV type reasons. But taking a more philosophical bent on it all, especially given what we know about Buffy's time in the "afterlife", and given some folk's posts about their own personal losses, a quote from Babylon 5 comes to mind (yes, I'm a scifi nerd):

"All life is transitory, a dream. We all come together in the same place, at the end of time. If I don't see you again here, I will see you, in a little while, in a place where no shadows fall."
- Delenn

My Mum has been seriously ill, so I've had my own reasons for thinking over the whole death thing. Warm hugs to the other Kittens on this path.

And since I'm in the quoting mood, here's one to make the wait for more spoilers and new eps a little more bearable:

"I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope
For hope would be hope of the wrong thing; wait without love
For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting."
- T. S. Eliot, Four Quartets

cheers, Katy

[This message has been edited by KatyQ (edited March 27, 2002).]

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

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