quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
I know exactly what you mean - and it's not an exaggeration.

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There I go again - too much of what I say in jest comes true but I swear I never joked about Tara being killed off.

This sucks out loud

1) I respect what Marti and Joss and their team are going to do, because it's their vision. It's not mine. I might not agree with it, I might hate it, but I have the choice to stop watching. That's my decision. Nobody is forcing me to view this program once a week or whenever.

2) Slagging the writers off will get you precisely nowhere. They're doing their job. However, it's not your job as a fan to slag them to high heaven and back. Give them a break.

3) If you're lurking to find out information, as we know that you are, I suggest you contribute more constructively next time you decide to post, then maybe you won't have to sneak around so much.

I'm just a little bitter here...

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

Anyway, I think what she said about B/S is what a lot of the writers have been saying. B/S is NOT a good relationship and they thought they were showing that fact but obviously, they didn’t think people would latch onto it as some grand romance.

Ah well… still holding out hope while not really thinking about it for my own sanities sake.

Call me vague, but what does F/X mean?

Can someone help me out?

Thanks in advance,
Jen

quote:

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Originally posted by Jen/jennpurr:
Call me vague, but what does F/X mean?

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You're vague.

Ahem. Sorry.

FX stands for effects, as in SpecialFX.

It's also the name of a cable channel that shows Buffy every day, twice a day. Sigh. Take me back to season 3 someone...

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
3) If you're lurking to find out information, as we know that you are, I suggest you contribute more constructively next time you decide to post, then maybe you won't have to sneak around so much.

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Ah c'mon Ruth it is so much easier to take what you find here and bitch about us. Well, if you're in the spoiler game for ego that is. And I'm sure we don't know any one like that.

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Autumn

So while a great many people are upset and want to cry foul against the writers, many people are also happy with the way that particular story line is progressing.

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
You're vague.

Ahem. Sorry.

FX stands for effects, as in SpecialFX.

It's also the name of a cable channel that shows Buffy every day, twice a day. Sigh. Take me back to season 3 someone...

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It's okay. LOL
I feel really stupid now. That's what I was thinking it stood for, Special Effects.

Thanks Tommo.

Jen (Who's going back under her rock now, till W/T are happy again.)

It's the work itself that I believe in -- what we actually see on the screen. That's the only place to find truth in art.

Every Marti interview seems to generate a furor among the fans. Frankly, I'm amazed ME
continues to allow her to speak to the press. They need to change their media relations person, assuming they have one!

One quick thought, I just got to watch the promo at Vidiot. A couple of days ago, I theorised on Giles unwanted surprise. My thought was that he found new information about the key & it's powers in the watchers archive. The promo says something like "key to the future of the universe". Before season 6 started both JW & MT gave interviews in which they talked about how Dawn will get new powers from being the key. So I was startin to think they were yankin my chain about it since 6 is almost done & hey, Dawn, still whiny & spoilt but definitely no superpowers except for that awful screeching noise that comes out of her mouth at times! Now personally I have never liked the possibility of a reset at the end of the season, basically it's backward momentum! No lessons learned due to lack of memory of the events & plus we have to suffer through basically the crap a second time in the beginning of season 7. So what if Dawn is the variable that changes everything? Tara dies, Willow goes whacko. Dawn loved Tara as if she were a sister, she was her caregiver & her friend. What if the emotional pain & grief triggers her mystical power, I mean it would be a kind of auto pilot thing, not as she would know how to control it, but an accident. Her grief & wishing Tara was alive more than anything her subconscious would guide it or whatever! What if she is capable of opening time portals as well as dimensional portals? What if she pulls Tara out of the past before her death? Theoretically that would probably present us with the same problems as a reset except that their memories wouldn't be erased maybe, maybe it could be something like Tara is pulled out & Buffy able to remember the events, intercepts Warren when he attempts to shoot her? Memories left in tact but the events linked to Tara's death such as evil Willow & her injuring of innocent people still exist in their minds however the events basically being changed.
Just a new theory possibility, haven't worked out all the kinks yet. Oh yeah, one other thing, the spoilers posted about the SFX being done because of a vengeance Anya granting a wish, or turning back time, whatever it was were cast into doubt due to the fact that the wish & the reversal of a wish required no special effects, basically switches one scene to another. What if it was actually Dawn opening a portal instead? That did require SFX.
Just thought I would share the theory! Night!

As for Buffy/Spike. The chip makes Spike a neutered wolverine. He's not cuddly. He's not trying to repent for bad deeds done. Spike's not as angst ridden a character as Angel (or Buffy for that matter). He's sexy as hell. (hell being the operative word, like the devil cliche) But for the popularity of B/S as a couple you can't have them being all luvvy-dovey. As Marti said they're not going to sit on the couch...(and my addition)... and watch Passions together. The fun part of their dynamic is the tension, the love-hate. They're like a Rhett Butler and Scarlet, or Han Solo and Leia...they've got to be apart. Theirs has got to be a whirly-gig relationship for the relationshiop to have teeth.

Willow and Tara? Well they've taken on a bit more of the Angel-Buffy doom and gloom...but by making their relationship romantic - ME's broken a lot of barriers with this depiction, as far as I'm concerned with the way they've shown "gay love". Within the Buffyverse - they've made W/T like every other couple on the show. Agony and Ecstacy. So kudos. And they're about to rev it up.

But I think the writers may be even more subversive than we give them credit for. I think they've started to use W/T like a spoiler trap pit or something. For the last three seasons, there's been a major W/T leak that's had spoiler folks say "Tara's a demon", Tara's going to die (and ended up brain sucked)...and now this year, "Tara really does die..." and everyone follows after it to a black pit of - no more spoilers. It's great for ME don't you see?
Well now, I've lost my next point...

I think it has been said in the spoilers that Anya does become a vengance demon and there is a wish..I could be wrong on those two things though..It may have been speculation and i got those mixed up with the spoilers..

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
isn't it the sign of a good writer or writing team to pull the audience in so much that they get emotionally involved in the show and the characters?

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As ever Ruth, you're on the button. [jeez...must stop this sycophancy.... ]
This season, ME has pulled us in, taken us to the depths of despair, and not just the Kittens, but all Buffy-fans, I cannot contemplate that there will not be a happy outcome for those who have suffered more than most, us kittens.

Unless of course, Joss has been watching 'Apocalypse Now - Redux' for inspiration.

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love and kisses

Still Waters Run Deep

" Hi!..um..aw...shit...he he he....'Scuz me..er.. I did'nt mean to..er....expose myself to.. ,ya know..public...*groan* "

I think clearly Marti is frustrated at fan expectation and what the message they are trying to send out. I consider myself an intelligent person and I consider some people here to be very intelligent and I don't think any of us can make sense of this season. I think Marti doesn't have a good way of communicating with the media, she never says the right thing it seems. Joss was a lot more masterful with the media and Marti is sure tackling some really tough issues. I actually found it surprising that Wanda didn't ask her about spoilers leaking.

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
... especially when this source claims it is because 20 is her baby and we all know Tara dies in 19...

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I beleive that accurate spoilers stste that though Tara does get shot in episoe 19, neither the characters nor us the audience will know sbout it until episode 20.

Therefore mentions of the death as being in 20 should be considered, accurate, as this is when the death is actually revealed to the unspoiled and shown on the screen.

I'm not going to get involved in the Marti Debate as a) I don't see it particularly relevant to a spoiler board, b) there's nothing about Will or Tara in it, and c) My views on the interview may not be shared or appreciated by other posters.

On a seperate note, it would certainly appear that the allegged spoiler crackdown is indeed in effect at ME. There are whispers of threats involving sharp pointy objects...

[This message has been edited by The Partyman (edited March 29, 2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by lindabarlow:
I also remember the special effects post, and thought it was pretty intriguing when it was first posted. But I wish we had more to go on. I also wish I could believe at least something that Marti has to say (like her feeling that people are going to be pleased by where the show's going), but the reality is, IMO, that there really isn't much value in anything the ME staff says about the show.

It's the work itself that I believe in -- what we actually see on the screen. That's the only place to find truth in art.

Every Marti interview seems to generate a furor among the fans. Frankly, I'm amazed ME
continues to allow her to speak to the press. They need to change their media relations person, assuming they have one!

--Linda

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Her statements about B/S were true also. They can't be together - the relationship just would not work.

quote:

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Originally posted by All4W/T:
I have to say Aynaia I like your theory..
Dawn has shown that she doesnt much like dealing with death be it Joyce and trying to bring her back or Buffy and wanting her to be brought back..She is very, very, close to Tara and i wouldnt put it past her, that if Tara were to die, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back..How Anya being a vengance demon and a wish being made at some point come into play is another story..

I think it has been said in the spoilers that Anya does become a vengance demon and there is a wish..I could be wrong on those two things though..It may have been speculation and i got those mixed up with the spoilers..

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You're right about the vengeance demon/wish thing, but the thing is Dawn pulling Tara out of a time portal is only going to change the events related to T/W/ & Warren storyline. Anya I still believe is headed for the grave & this way Tara would come back, no reset used therefore memories retained & lessons learned, plus the independant storylines still happen & are not altered so much. Wish granted, guilt & love, change of mind, reversal & death.
Anyway sounds good to me! He-he!

Dawn. It is interesting to note *what* scenes they opted to show for Dawn in the new preview. We have been hearing for a bit that Dawn was going to get some Kewl Powerz(tm), but I did not believe we would see them in this season.
I could be wrong.

So we have two possibilities. 1.) Dawn is "the key to the future" she is pivotable to final eps. or 2.) This is classic misdirection.

Seeing the new preview also just drives the point home that Amber REALLY needs to be in the opening credits. I really hate the 2nd class citizen treatment she gets.

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
My Willow&Tara Pages: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/willtara.php
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
--
I'm ahead of my time. But only by a week.
- Too Much Joy, "I Don't Know"

It's true, she doesn't come across that well in interviews. However, as someone who used to conduct interviews for a living (and still does on occasion), I can tell you that some people, while having very good intentions, just don't express themselves well in interviews. Especially in a hard Q&A format. There are no framing paragraphs to let the reader know expression, tone, background. I think I only turned in two Q&A's ever as a journalist, because I think they are a disservice to both the readers and the subject. They're popular, of course, because they are small, quick and easy for publication. They just also tend to be grossly misleading.

Anyway, while I am very confused by and wary of this season's outcome, I can partially understand where Marti (may be) coming from. The writers have been hounded about B/A for four years and now the B/A stuff has taken on a new intensity because of B/S. From all of her interviews, it sounds like Marti is astounded that her intended theme for B/S (which I won't get into here) and the entire season is just not registering with a large portion of the fans. People aren't getting it and her frustration is unfortunately showing. This is her first year at the helm of the show. She is likely very excited and proud and yet her message isn't getting across.

I'm just as confused as everyone else and I'm worried about what's happening to the show and W/T. However, I don't think Marti is trying to tell the fans to fuck off. I think she may just be tired of the whole B/S & B/A wars and feeling stress because her first season is under such fire. Let me put it this way, I envision her reacting to the constant B/S questions much the way Kittens do to the old "Is Willow gay?" question. Part of you wants to pull out all the charts and graphs and explain the whole thing, and the other part of you is tired of explaining and just wants to smack the person in the head for not getting what is so damn clear to you. (Note: I'm not comparing the inherent understandability of those two situations, merely the frustration quotient.)

I think Marti thinks her season is self-apparent...trouble is, it's not, which leads to misunderstanding and grumbling on all sides.

Amy

Whoops, my bad. Anya does say "torture" instead of "future." I agree with others that the scene is probably from Entropy, with Anya trying to get a wish from Buffy.

As for the Dawn scenes... I know I started off with this, but after sleeping on it, I don't know how much we can possibly take from the preview. IMHO, it was designed to attract new viewers to the show, not to foreshadow what was going to happen. Being such, it would naturally highlight the "sexier" aspects of each character -- ie, Buffy and Spike's fighting prowess, Anya's "demonic" nature, Xander's quips, Willow's magic -- and, of course, Dawn's "mystical energy." Does that mean that Dawn's mystical energy will be used anytime soon? Not necessarily, because the promo wants to hook viewers, not tell them what's about to happen.

Forgive me for digressing for a moment -- but from everything I've read (and for some reason reading interviews and hunting down sources for spoilers has become a hobby for me) the "Dawn will get special powers" rumour claims to be from an interview with Michelle Trachtenberg. No interview I have seen with her has contained this remark. So, unless someone sources that properly I think it has to be taken as the same kind of "spoiler" that the "Riley will return from South America as a vampire with Drusilla on his arm" one was. Sorry to be obsessive -- but I'm a history major. If you don't show me a source, you might as well be making it up.

Incidentally, is no one distressed that there's no Tara -- not even in the background -- in this promo? That might have to do with her non-regular status, but still...

On the interview with Marti:

Thank God this isn't an S/B board, because those are turning into pretty vitriolic places at the moment. But I agree -- I actually think it was a pretty smart interview. And for W/Ters, she made the semi-hopeful comment that fans would like where the show was going... MN's not, I think, so naive as to assert that if the end was to hold a dead Tara and an evil-and-depressed Willow. She would have said something to the effect of "This is a dark season, and it will have a dark ending, and in order to achieve what we want to do dramatically we're going to have to annoy a lot of people."

Just my opinion,
Ayl

Amber's non credit status is really started to annoy me too, she has been in show far too long and is far too essential to be left out at this point.

And while I am ready to storm the castle walls and just waiting for the word 'go', I know it is futile.

That is why I say let them know with your money. Though it may not have any effect either.

I am fully ready, willing and able to see how this season rides out. But there better some indication of the future of Willow and Tara by the end of it all. The rest, I am fine not to know.

Warlock

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
My Willow&Tara Pages: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/willtara.php
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
--
I'm ahead of my time. But only by a week.
- Too Much Joy, "I Don't Know"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aylandi:

Incidentally, is no one distressed that there's no Tara -- not even in the background -- in this promo?

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She's in there twice actually. The group scream and from the side in the "good God that's a lot of shake" scene.

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Autumn