The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

General Chat  || Kitten  || WaV  || Pens  || Mi2  || GMP  || TiE  || FAQ  || Feed - The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe

All times are UTC - 8 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 825 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28
Author Message
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 6:49 pm 
Hey, I hold my eggs with Joss. Like Paul, I too still have faith. And it isn't something I am making up. The show has shown us that they will always find each other, not once but twice. This is a true love, not just in Joss' words but in the scripts, and in the freaking show! That's my faith, that's where it comes from.

And realities? It's all over the show, we are meant to question what is going on. So yeah, I will hold judgement, I make all my statements with a big if things don't change, if if if. That is a big if. I WANT SPOILERS! ok, I am fine, had to get that out.



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:15 pm 
My name darkend-faith is my belief in the show, i still believe in Joss's talent but where he's going with things make me doubt(joss=god)but spoilers(those damned addictive little buggers)have got me down. again. I read that -our herione will become darker and darker-(note the more leather she's been wearing)-losing touch with her real reality, in which means she loses sight of whats important and becomes lost.-(literally?)-Our chipped becomes chipless(spike?obviously)but can't control his more feral instincts. Indangering the entire scooby gang.- So does this mean spike falls of the wagon i'm thinking yes.Its going to be an intrestin very scary ride.(you'll see me hiding behind the couch)I gatherd these from a few different boards if you'd like the www's for them email me
thanks for the ramble space d-f out

------------------
We know of the past.
We are of the present.
We dream of the future...



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:38 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Well, the worst part of it to me is that everything is playing out exactly like people have been expecting for months or even years. How long have people been saying Anya would become a vengeance demon again? How long have people been saying Tara would be killed off? How long have people been saying Willow would go all dark-magicky?


My hypothesis: Give 'em what they think they want. And then show 'em why it's not such a good idea after all...

Or maybe another way to look at it...Joss/ME always has something "ulterior" up their proverbial sleeves...


quote:


Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:39 pm 
The latest object of my analytical obsession is Dead Things.

It's a pivotal ep in a lot of ways. It's effectively the turning point for both B/S and W/T for the season, in that when Buffy confided in, and bonded with, Tara she set in motion the events which would lead to W/T's eventual reunion and her own choice to end things with Spike.

It's also when Buffy realizes she no longer has the excuse of being 'wrong' to blame all her bad decisions on. This is the beginning of Buffy's real healing process, I think.

I like the way they set the scene between Buffy and Tara in the beginning, with the poster entitled "cooperation" in the shot right there in between them.

There's an interesting set up to the Willow/Tara scene also. When Tara starts to walk away, they framed the shot with Willow on the left side of the screen and the right side empty with the word "Open" in the Magic Box window on the right side of the screen.

I don't believe there's any coincidence to the way they framed that shot. They could have easily done a close up instead. I think it helps set up the idea that Willow's incomplete, and out of balance, without Tara.

I also thought it was interesting that Jonathon pulls out a record that's titled "Frampton Comes Alive!" at the beginning. Seems like an odd choice.

But what really got me thinking was the big fight between Buffy and Spike. I certainly think Katrina's death is meant to parallel Tara's upcoming murder. Which fits in with the double pattern for the season.

So with that in mind, here's an interesting quote (and the reason all this is in the spoiler thread *G*):

Buffy: A girl is dead because of me.
Spike: And how many people are alive because of you? How many have you saved? One dead girl doesn't tip the scale.

I think Spike is wrong. One dead girl can tip the scale.

One girl who represents things such as fairness, reason and so forth. Who in a lot of ways, represents balance.

But it ain't Katrina.

And when she dies, the scales are tipped and as a result everything goes out of balance and spins further and further out of control until it all crashes into a firey heap.

And if this girl's death represents the loss of balance, then there aren't a lot of things other than a return of her life, one way or the other, that could signify the scales being righted again.

I've thought there were a lot of interesting parallels between Tara and Katrina pretty much since they first showed her in IWMTLY. I even wondered at the time if they had cast the girl because she bore a resemblence to Amber. The way they dressed her, her hair, and of course, the fact that there are also parallels between Warren and Willow.

It's also interesting that in the flashback, he calls her "Trina".

I'm wonder now if Buffy's dream doesn't have some significance also. In the way Katrina opened her eyes and they were blue.

The other notable element of Dead Things was of course the issue of time.

"Oh, time has no meaning here."

"Never's a long time, baby."

"I can even go to the magic shop now. As long as someone's with me at all times."

"What time is it?"
"It's late. I just wanted..."

"Demons in the woods? Time going wonky? They won't believe you."

"So that's why time went all David Lynch?"

"He's everything I hate. He's everything that ... I'm supposed to be against. But
the only time that I ever feel anything is when ... Don't tell anyone, please."

"I-It's okay if you do. He's done a lot of good, and, and he does love you. A-and
Buffy, it's okay if you don't. You're going through a really hard time, and you're..."

DeKnight went to a bit of trouble to throw that word in there so many times.

Heh.

Anyway, just some more thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Ari (edited March 29, 2002).]



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:46 pm 
At this point, I'm totally confused as to where ME might be going with things. (Probably exactly what ME wants, I realize) Know the spoilers, read the interviews and speculation...I'm at a loss. So, guess I'm just gonna have to wait until we get more info, or something kinda clicks and it all becomes clear Cause I think we're probably missing a big piece of the puzzle (maybe several at this point)

Sigh. Want some answers. Want some hope. Wanna know if the light at the end of the tunnel is, indeed, a train... Patience? Never been my strong suit



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:01 pm 
What I don't understand is how everyone seems to be saying that the fans will all be happy by the end of the season (Marti, The writers at the Bronze and Emma C). Because from what I am seeing, I just don't get that. I think ME and the Buffy writers may have a very annoyed group of fans on their hands.
However I still cling to faith that Joss will turn things around. Although all the fans happy? No way

------------------
Beep, beep



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:12 pm 
There are going to be angry fans no matter what the writers do. You can't please everyone.

------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

Willow: Hi, um Tara. How are you? I was wondering maybe you want to go out sometime for coffee? food? kisses and gay love?



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:17 pm 
I had a notion..
I was talking with angelx and it occured to me..
I once read this article talking about on most TV shows the stars are "king". The show rests on them, and they can and do demand perks and tribute. This article went onto say that on shows like Buffy and NYPBBlue, the stars were expendible and the writer was "king", and this lead to a stronger show.
Irony such that we have a show where Amber Benson takes an interview on her lunch from 3 fans , and James Marsters makes eye contact with autograph seeker..
But now the writers treat the fans with scorn, and imagine that they are the only ones who turn thread into gold..
The writers are "king" here


Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:19 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rose:
There are going to be angry fans no matter what the writers do.


You're right, you can't please everyone. If the writers tried, then absolutely no one would be happy. But an interesting turn of phrase. Angry fans.
quote:



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:26 pm 
Ari I think you are probably right that there is far to many "time" references to be anything other in some clue. Thanks for all the time you take on these may be clue post. They are at the least interesting if not enlightening.

I was bored so I went and downloaded the season 6 promos off of Mr video. I was thinking what if they mean more then getting viewers interested in the show and more then about how things were when Buffy was dead. I know it's just speculation but in light of the spoilers and rumors I think they are quite interesting.

Dawn: "My sister died saving the world, saving me-Whose going to save us now?"

Dawn: "All my life one persons kept me safe in Sunnydale but she's gone-Now it's up to me to stay alive"

Spike: "It hurts when I think about her. But soon I'm not going to be the only one. Cause without her-All hells going to break loose!"

Willow: "Even in High school she warned me. She told me she'd die young-I never believed her until now!"

Xander: "We live on a hellmouth and we're down one slayer-If my calculations are correct We're in big ass trouble!"

Xander: "The slayer is dead-everybody else?-We're Next!"

Anya: "If she was here right now I know she'd tell us how proud she is of us. she'd say, Yea you guys fighting evil without me. That's what she'd say-you know if her vocal cords aren't all decomposed and stuff."

Anya: "Death is stupid. Plummet off a tower and pssz that's it-It's shocking and I don't like it"

Those are just the ones at Mr video. I don't know if there was more character promos or not. It's weird that there would be no Tara so I'm thinking that some are missing. But from those ones at least it seems maybe little clues to the whole season not just the time Buffy was dead.

[This message has been edited by TarotX (edited March 29, 2002).]



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:36 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by Ari:
The latest object of my analytical obsession is Dead Things.

It's a pivotal ep in a lot of ways. It's effectively the turning point for both B/S and W/T for the season, in that when Buffy confided in, and bonded with, Tara she set in motion the events which would lead to W/T's eventual reunion and her own choice to end things with Spike....

But what really got me thinking was the big fight between Buffy and Spike. I certainly think Katrina's death is meant to parallel Tara's upcoming murder. Which fits in with the double pattern for the season.

So with that in mind, here's an interesting quote (and the reason all this is in the spoiler thread *G*):

Buffy: A girl is dead because of me.
Spike: And how many people are alive because of you? How many have you saved? One dead girl doesn't tip the scale.

I think Spike is wrong. One dead girl can tip the scale.

One girl who represents things such as fairness, reason and so forth. Who in a lot of ways, represents balance.

But it ain't Katrina.


Bless you, Ari. How I love agreeing with you. There you are all working on the logical plane, and it gives me the perfect opportunity step in and add my two cents worth on the emotional plane.

First of all, I'm going out on a not so precarious limb by saying "There are no coincidences in Buffyverse." That said, I don't think you can overlook or underestimate the significance of Tara's "death" acting as the catalyst or turning point for everything in Buffyverse going straight to hell in a handbasket from that point forward. Remove her from the "equation", and everything heads for chaos and mayhem.

Think about how Tara has been made more and more a central -- no, make that an essential -- figure in the well-being of the Scoobs. Every episode has brought to the fore her strength of character, her extraordinary capacity for compassion and forgiveness, and her unlimited depth of love. And even in those episodes where she has not been physically present, her presence has been emphasized and felt...and overarching. Name one episode this season where her name has not, at the very least, been mentioned prominently and with purpose. That's no coincidence either.

Tara is essential to the Scoobies. And ME has been very deliberate in laying the groundwork for that eventuality, and now that fact.

I was trying to dig up the quote from Joss stating just exactly this sentiment, but I couldn't readily find it. In essence, though, he said that Tara now has an essential role to play for/with the Scoobies, aside from her relationship with Willow. Sure, she is Willow's everything. But we (on the Kitten board, anyway) already knew that. This season -- and likely from this season forward -- we are about to find out just how essential she is to every single Scooby.

Willow? That one's easy. Tara is Willow's everything and always. We've been told and shown that over and over again. And given what is about to transpire, we know, without a doubt, that Willow can not be "saved" without Tara. Again: They Will Always Find Each Other.

We have also seen how Tara cares for Dawn, to the point of giving herself up to a hellgod. We have seen how Dawn responds to her, with complete trust and appreciation for being acknowledged as more than just "Buffy's whiney little sister." Tara may well be the second most important person in Dawn's life, next to Buffy. And some might even argue that point.

We have seen Tara become Buffy's confidante when Buffy didn't feel she had anyone else to turn to...even including Willow. And not only was she "there" for Buffy when Buffy just needed someone to talk to, but she readily took on and accepted -- without judgment -- the "secret" with which Buffy entrusted her. She has given Buffy a voice...she has become her touchpoint, her guide.

We have also seen numerous occasions where she has reached out to Anya offering her affirmation as a human/mortal -- not a former vengeance demon -- who has "feelings" and insecurities -- something Xander, who supposedly is in love with her, hasn't even been able to offer.

Tara has even been there for Xander, if you've been paying careful attention. He knows where to "hide" when things get testy between Willow and Anya. And it was Tara who acknowledged, in the Body, that Xander was feeling pain over Joyce's death. His putting his fist into the wall was just a way to make the emotional hurt -- something that was beyond his ability to comprehend fully and cope with -- into something that was purely physical...something that he could comprehend and "handle." She "gets" Xander. "It hurts," she acknoweldged with her simple but sound brand of wisdom.

I was trying to locate the quote from one of the writers -- DeKnight, Petrie, or somebody -- who, when posed with an observation by a poster on the Beta Bronze about it seeming that things were "off" or that it seemed that "something seemed to be missing" when Tara wasn't in an episode, his reply was "You should be feeling that way."

Tara is essential. That's no longer a question. Or at least it shouldn't be. But for those who didn't happen to get it the first time around, we're about to find out just how much so.

Take heart, people. I am firmly convinced that Tara is about to come into her own...not just for those of us who always knew how extraordinary she was, and how much more lay beneath the surface of her potential. But now for everyone else. Of course, they're not going to realize that until it's all taken away...for a little while. But she will be back. Because the Scoobs truly need her and far too much to have it be otherwise.

quote:



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 8:45 pm 
quote:
You should be feeling that way.
This is a great quote. Could someone kindly tell me where this is from? This is exactly the way I feel also.

------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

Willow: Hi, um Tara. How are you? I was wondering maybe you want to go out sometime for coffee? food? kisses and gay love?quote:



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 9:53 pm 
I hope we're not all just projecting our own desires about how important Tara is. But I think the writers have shown so far this season that Tara has become the Center of the Scoobies. (I said as much about five thousand pages back. Whew, what a ride.) She's their glue. Glue-ier, I think, than even Giles or Joyce ever was.

Note what happens with Tara completely gone. (Not just temporarily separated from Willow, but totally out of the picture. Dead gone.)

I would love nothing more than to have a scene at the end where everyone is sitting around, exhausted, glassy-eyed, and numb with the horror of what has transpired, acknowledging that it was the absence of Tara that was the impetus for The Trainwreck. Taralessness incites entropy. (It certainly does at the Kitty, if not in the Buffyverse.)

Okay, I know I'm definitely projecting my own desires here, but it could happen. And it sets Tara up to have an even more obviously integral role in season 7. (And Amber in the credits, YAY!)

Slightly switching gears: I have never ever been able to get the stuff from Mr. Vidiot's site to work for me. But I've read enough about the latest promo to get the gist of what's happening. Are they just messing with people's heads about the Dawn having powers thing? Or is Dawn going to do some big keymojo thing? I can't imagine that she would let Tara go softly into the night, in light of what Dawn did when Joyce died. Dawn is impulsive and I think that neither would she think about whether Tara would want to be brought back nor could anyone sway her if she were determined to do so. Also, after Willow, Dawn seems to me to be the one who will be most affected by Tara's death. And, based on the spoilers, it doesn't seem that anyone's going to be too concerned about what Dawn might be getting up to in the last couple of episodes. Maybe this is one of those big pieces that we know we're missing? (Or maybe it's just a bunch of hooey to try to make Dawn seem interesting to new viewers.)

Neeeeeeed more spoilerrrrrrrrrs!!!



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:41 pm 
So, I've been following this Incredibly Exploding Thread as much as possible ... but golly-gee-whiz! There's a lot here!

After reading all this stuff, all I can say is this: from what we know, and from what we pointedly DON'T know, either ME has gone and done a buncha' drugs, or they've got something mind-blowingly cool up their sleeve.

Drugs: Tara Dies

Mind-Blowingly Cool: They've managed to take people who don't like Tara and make them frickin' love her (but, uhh ... not in a prison way *winks at Shanie*).

Frankly, I'm withholding judgment and won't be jumping on the Faith Bus unless Faith is actually the driver in all of her cleavage-y slut bomb glory. 'Cuz, y'know, that has its own entertainment value while we're waiting until the freakin' 30th for the next new episode.

But I have to say, I've ADORED all the speculation. I know that they're not spoilers, but ... geeze, this is some good stuff. My favorite, so far, is the Wizard of Oz Ending ... go read wiccachica's The Late Shift and giggle along with me. *G*

-Sass
Oh, and Shanie? The "...but not in a prison way" thing is actually the SECOND best follow-up to an "I love you". After you've gotten everyone used to "I love you ... but not in a prison way" ... use this one: "I love you ... but not in the way you're thinking ... I want to have SEX with you."



Top
  
 
 Post subject: General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2002 11:08 pm 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rose:
There are going to be angry fans no matter what the writers do. You can't please everyone.

No, you can't - but there are plenty of ways you could please most of them. Not destroying everything people watch the show for would be a good start.

Woops. Too late for that...

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited March 30, 2002).]quote:



Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 825 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

W/T Love 24/7 since July 2000
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group