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Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

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Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Maj » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:03 am

I labled this Off Topic as the only reference to Alyson and/or Amber is the line “Even for a Hollywood series, the cast are for the most part staggeringly beautiful,”.... It's a transcript I have done for you of an article from todays paper, and I hope you find something interesting in it.

Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck
Richard Jenkyns
refuses to fall under the spell of the vampire slayer from Sunydale.
The Australia Financial Review, Friday 8 March 2002

Reviewers often exaggerate how much they know about the subjects of the books they discuss, but you would have to be a bit sad to be a real expert on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I hasten to assure readers that I don’t know a great deal about it. But it seems I should be getting out less. Roz Kareney declares that this is the first television show to have seduced her completely, and admits admits to being obsessed with it. She is not alone. Writers and intellectuals, she adds, discuss Buffy over dinner. Her collaborators in Reading the Vampire Slayer* are also fully paid-up fans (except for an expert on east Asian martial arts movies, who breaks ranks by concluding that the fights in Buffy are indifferently executed). Some praise the show for wit, others for symbolic force. Kaveney likes the dialogue’s snappiness and offers examples: “What is your childhood trauma?”; “I’m loves bitch, but at least I’m man enough to admit it.”

When I have sampled Buffy, I have found the characterisation cardboard, the plot lines repetitious, the pacing and development of the narrative poor, the monsters feeble and the action scenes perfunctory and unexciting. But there is a lot of Buffy. Kaveney offers a brief synopsis of 100 episodes of Buffy itself and more than 40 episodes of the darker spin-off series, Angel – and it must be hard to keep the standard up. Maybe it has been my bad luck that any time I switch on I seem yo catch Giles the librarian advising Buffy about the latest supernatural perils in those concerned tones that children put on when they are playing at being grown-ups. Plenty of people, it is true, find Buffy charming. Certainly, pop-culture television can be worth serious attention: the egghead praise heaped upon The Simpsons, for example, is fully deserved, and the Fawlty Towers is one of the finest works of art produced in the past 30 years.

Although Buffy may be better than I think, many of these contributors are too indulgent. The joy of fandom is that everything can be made to appear meaningful. Kaveney is impressed that the characters in the story age in something like real time. That, of course, is because the actors are aging in real time and even in Hollywood and actor nearing 30 can’t go on playing a schoolkid. Kaveney also reveals that “the five seasons of Buffy …share a structural pattern as coherent as the statement, development, second statement, recapitulations and coda of sonata form” – a fancy way of saying that the storylines are all the same. Anne Millard Daugherty deduces that Buffy is represented as affluent because in five series she has never worn the same outfit twice. But isn’t she supposed to be an object of teenage lust? “Even for a Hollywood series, the cast are for the most part staggeringly beautiful,” pants Kaveney, lowering her brow for just a moment.

For Boyd Tonkin, Buffy exemplifies the contrast between the endless sunshine of the southern California and “the deep darkness and perpetual turbulence of the region’s supposed moral climate”. But this is a British view. Americans laugh at the idea of southern California as a hedonist’s paradise, a lotus-land of warmth and pleasure. With a dash of envy, this dream becomes a fantasy of darkness beneath the bright surface. The theme goes back to Aldous Huxley’s diatribe in Jesting Pilate against LA as the “City of Dreadful Joy”, written years before he capitulated and made California his home.

Alsion Lurie’s novel The Nowhere City studies this syndrome from the viewpoint of east coast America, where some people catch the disease in a milder form. But the reality of LA is that it contains a larger area of pleasant, middle-class suburbs than anywhere else in the world. Buffy is set in So Cal because So Cal is where the people who make it live and work: for them it is perfectly everyday, and the basic, quite amusing conceit of the show is that Hellmouth and the cosmic conflict should be centred on a bog-standard high school – Drcacula meets Beverly Hills 90210. The point of Sunnydale is its ordinariness.

The Englishman, Giles, is perhaps the most interesting character in the story. American Anglophilia is reflected in Giles’s role as the source of learning and Buffy’s wise preceptor. But at the same time he is a kind of subordinate, and it may be significant that he is usually addressed by his surname (he is Rupert Giles in full) and his feelings for Buffy have to be restricted to an ineffectual tenderness (it being well known that Englishmen are not supplied with sexual organs). Half of Giles is Obi-Wan Kenobi: half is Gielgub as the English butler.

Kaveney’s authors are not afraid of being pretentious. One contribution speaks of “Buffy’s forth season” as as though it were Beethoven’s third period and reveals that the show is really about globalisation and the relation between capital and nation. Another contributor, in pan-feminist mode, takes us through Sumerian myth, the Eleusinian Mystery, gnosticism and much more. There is surely less here than meets the eye. When I see the death and resurrection of Buffy Summers compared to that of Jesus Christ, I do not think that this adds value to the series but rather that it cheapens things which are truly profound. It must be possible to write about pop culture seriously while preserving a sense of proportion.

*Reading the Vampire Slayer. Edited by Roz Kaveney. Palgrave. $37.

Richard Jenkyns is professor of classics at Oxford Univerity.

Photo: Typical shot of SMG with a stake.
Caption: In the beginning: ‘Pepper spray is just so passé.’

------------------
Maj - (Creator of Willow's Room)

SFX: Where would you like to see Willow go in the sixth season?
Alyson: "I hope Willow gets taller, and she gets a tan."
- SFX Magazine, December 2001

Maj
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Hemiola » Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:42 am

Um...well...it seems to me that there is a lot to object to in Mr. Jenkyns' article ...

His attitude is that of so many jaded critics: snide and shallow.

He doesn't like the Jesus/Buffy resurrection comparison? I suppose he must've hated "ET" even more .

He objects to someone stating that the cast is "staggeringly beautiful"? Does he think that they are ugly?

But most of all I object to his remark about people "seeing more than is actually there". Really?? One could argue that all the learned papers written about, say, Joyce's "Ulysses" or "Finnegan's Wake" are just so much blather, and that Joyce was really just "having us on". In fact, it could be argued that all analytical criticism of literature, art or drama is a pointless exercise. I am really rather sorry for an individual who thinks that art, whether it is of a "serious" nature or of the "popular" variety, has no levels or implied meanings. To believe this is to believe that art has no richness of any kind. If that's the way he thinks, you might as well not even bother putting something like the "Mona Lisa" in a museum--hey, if you've seen one smiling woman you've seen 'em all, right? If he really thinks this way, why did he bother to write his article at all?

No sirree--put me in the group that thinks that there is a lot more to BTVS than a snarky TV show. Just like there is a lot more to "Ulysses" than a day in the life of a Irish-Jewish newspaperman/adman .

Hemiola
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Salix » Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:13 am

Loved your comments, Hemiola.

quote:
"Although Buffy may be better than I think, many of these contributors are too indulgent."

He doesn't have to like it. It's not for the masses. But when you're a fan you WANT to be indulgent. You enjoy it. You want to annoy everyone around you with it. He is missing the whole point.

He must be one of those critics that think their job is to take the oposite position of whatever they review in order to "give the other side of the story". Everyone's entitled to their opinion (he doesn't even seem to agree with that), but he sounds like the typical American AM Drive DJ that says things to get people riled up so they'll call in and create controversy to get a little attention and ratings.

Bah, I say. Bah.

S

------------------
Buffy: The world is what it is---we fight, we die. Wishing doesn't change that.
Giles: I have to believe in a better world.
Buffy: Go ahead. I have to live in this one.

[This message has been edited by Salix (edited March 08, 2002).]quote:

Salix
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Eyes Without A Face » Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:19 am

OK1 Time to 'fess up! Which one of us had peed in the author's cereals the day he wrote this review?

------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

Eyes Without A Face
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby ninjitsugrrl » Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:33 am

This man admits that he has watched very little Buffy and yet he feels able to bash it so completely? I don't not like this! He cannot judge a very complex show on a few episodes or a few snippets of episodes he has seen. Watch it before you knock it people! Grrr... Richard Jenkyns is evil!

------------------
"That's right, puppy. Willow's gonna make you bark."

ninjitsugrrl
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby sisterofmercy » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:01 am

Perhaps if the reviewer stuck to reviewing the book instead of making some blanket statement about the value (or lack thereof) of BtVS, then I might be able to take the commentary seriously. But to dismiss the show based on a few cursory viewings is lousy criticism, indeed.

However, I hate the rather joyless way academics often treat popular culture. It's like "I must make this sound far more serious than it is, so let me include far too much useless verbiage and suck it dry so my colleagues will take my dip into lower brow culture seriously". I read a book called Popular Culture and Critical Pedagogy for my Curriculum theory class and in my review of it, I marvelled at the way they made The Simpsons seem so, well, dull. Ugh.

Probably FAR more than you wanted to know. Sorry. Rant over!


Kim

sisterofmercy
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby tommo » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:19 am

Well he clearly has some kind of axe to grind. And he's grinding it. Perhaps if he'd followed the series instead of "dipping in and out" then he'd understand how fans feel about it.

I'm of the opinion that Buffy has a few one shot episodes that work as stand alones. But the beauty of the series is that it has running developments over a period of time. I think that's what this writer has failed to see overall in terms of the big picture.

Well, that and he's pretty snippy as well. Odd how some reviewers still don't see television as a valid or intellectual medium. Bah. I read this and just thought, okay, so what. I don't care.

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Kakamabee » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:29 am

ANYONE UP FOR BITCH SLAPPING?
and a big for him

------------------
I smell sin on you!

"HEY LADY SHE WHO SMELT IT DELT IT!"," so it's like a a giant poltergasm"

[This message has been edited by Kakamabee (edited March 08, 2002).]

IP: Logged

WiccanBex
Gay Now!


Posts: 1508
Registered: Jun 2001
posted March 08, 2002 13:42               
well... at least his unfounded arguements were well-written, i guess...

EWAF, if someone *hadn't* peed in in his cereal... i bet there's a few people who would like to now. lol.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site

IP: Logged

concrete
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 284
Registered: Mar 2001
posted March 08, 2002 13:53               
Friends, Romans,Kittens, lend me your ears.
I come to bury R.Jenkyns, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones
So let it be with him.
-
Feeling rather proud actually, the realization that merely being a great fan of Buffy can be the cause of these emotions. I mean: the power!!! to be able to bring out all this. I think it’s fantastic.......

------------------
It's not so much that I'm always right, it's just that I'm never wrong.....
{pecunia non olet}

[This message has been edited by concrete (edited March 08, 2002).]

IP: Logged

Dazey
Gay Now!


Posts: 1214
Registered: Mar 2001
posted March 08, 2002 18:16               
Ooooh, more crap writing. I should've stopped reading right here:
quote:
Originally posted by Maj:
the actors are aging in real time and even in Hollywood an actor nearing 30 can’t go on playing a schoolkid.

Clearly this man knows nothing about American TV.

------------------
"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."

IP: Logged

shellybean
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 192
Registered: May 2001
posted March 08, 2002 22:02               
I don't really know how to react to this article. This guy doesn't seem to like Buffy at all but seems to give it credit because so many other people do. And did he call us Buffy obsessed people sad? What a jack ass!

IP: Logged

Bones
Floating Rose


Posts: 27
Registered: Oct 2001
posted March 09, 2002 00:01               

As I pointed out at HDC, the show got excellent newspaper coverage the weekend before this article came out, so I think this is a response to that....

It is a financial paper, that this "review" was in, so can anyone smell a desperate attempt to get readers ???

IP: Logged

with catlike tread
Blessed Wannabe


Posts: 6
Registered: Feb 2002
posted March 09, 2002 00:03            
This is simply academia snobbery and not worth worrying about.

1st, the guy is a 'professor of classics at Oxford Univerity'. This means he simply cannot tolerate anything that wasn't originally in latin or greek (presumably, though, he gets a thrill from some of the spells in BvTS!).

2ndly, he is clearly of the 'old school' academia that views 'pop culture' as for the massess and not for intellectuals to be concerned about. I mean, if the person on the street can understand it or watches it, then it simply cannot be worthy of some highly intellectual and well educated person taking notice of. Plus, as an oxford don, he has a political agenda to oppose any American cultural imperialism. He will also hate 'friends', baseball caps, McDonalds, Starbucks and coca cola.

these are the same people who deplore 'Harry Potter' because they feel that if you are going to read you should read Shakespeare or Henry James or, presumably, you should just not read at all. Science fiction and fantasy books, well, they are just comic books with words and comic books are just archie and donald duck and therefore also are not worth anyones attention (excepting, of course, greek and roman myths, which aren't really fantasy).

(ah, that wasnt meant to be such a rant. But why review a book about a show you have no interest in, are glad you have no interest in and which you dont watch. Unless you think it a way to kick someone who doesn't do what you think an academic should do. Maybe I should do a review of Joyce - never read any of his books, but I know some Irish people and have had plenty of Guiness).

IP: Logged

mucifer
Willowhand


Posts: 328
Registered: Sep 2000
posted March 09, 2002 09:12            
i thought the article was insulting to americans in general. but, oh well many are pretty dense. so people get the show on different levels. how does that make it a shallow show?
as far as intellectuals go there are articles written praising buffy from harvard professors and such. so this author shouldnt does not represent the intellectual community .
then part of me says "hey it's just a tv show and everyone has a right to her own opinion."

IP: Logged

Under Her Spell
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 223
Registered: Dec 2001
posted March 09, 2002 12:38               
Buffy's a postmodern show, so recycling of 'unoriginal' elements is essential to it: putting a new spin on old cliches. As is the way it doesn't take itself seriously, without being self-consciously a comedy show.

This guy here is a critic of postmodernism, as he clearly thinks Mozart is better because it's old, a view postmodern critics reject. Mozart was pop music in his day (or at least, many other famous composed were), as was Shakespeare pop theatre. The 'sense of proportion' he's talking about simply means that he thinks you can talk about pop culture, providing you don't dare to say it's actually as good the pop culture of a few hundred years ago. Shakespeare, Dickens, Bronte, Browning, Shelley, Byron, Frost, Beethoven - all of these were pop culture.

My problem is that a lot of the essays I've read on Buffy don't take a postmodern tack; they don't talk about Hammer Horror, comics or Femminism, they talk about the 'old' stuff, and keep comparing Buffy to it; Buffy is like Shakespeare, but it's also a lot more like 'Bride of the Vampire' and Marvel comics.

IP: Logged

PandoraSpocks
Blessed Wannabe


Posts: 16
Registered: Mar 2002
posted March 09, 2002 15:49            
You Know what I thinks "sad", A person who has nothing better to do than trash something he doesn't seem that interested in anyway. If he wants to constructively criticize something he feels passionate, about fine. I usually go out of my way to avoid articles like that. What can be "sad" about taking pleasure from something, that can stimulate the mind as well as the heart
That's all I have to say.

IP: Logged

IP: LoggedWiccanBexGay Now!


Posts: 1508
Registered: Jun 2001
posted March 08, 2002 13:42               
well... at least his unfounded arguements were well-written, i guess...

EWAF, if someone *hadn't* peed in in his cereal... i bet there's a few people who would like to now. lol.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site

IP: Logged

posted March 08, 2002 13:42                well... at least his unfounded arguements were well-written, i guess...

EWAF, if someone *hadn't* peed in in his cereal... i bet there's a few people who would like to now. lol.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site
IP: LoggedconcreteCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 284
Registered: Mar 2001
posted March 08, 2002 13:53               


Friends, Romans,Kittens, lend me your ears.
I come to bury R.Jenkyns, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones
So let it be with him.
-
Feeling rather proud actually, the realization that merely being a great fan of Buffy can be the cause of these emotions. I mean: the power!!! to be able to bring out all this. I think it’s fantastic.......

------------------
It's not so much that I'm always right, it's just that I'm never wrong.....
{pecunia non olet}

[This message has been edited by concrete (edited March 08, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted March 08, 2002 13:53                Friends, Romans,Kittens, lend me your ears.
I come to bury R.Jenkyns, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones
So let it be with him.
-
Feeling rather proud actually, the realization that merely being a great fan of Buffy can be the cause of these emotions. I mean: the power!!! to be able to bring out all this. I think it’s fantastic.......

------------------
It's not so much that I'm always right, it's just that I'm never wrong.....
{pecunia non olet}

[This message has been edited by concrete (edited March 08, 2002).]IP: LoggedDazeyGay Now!


Posts: 1214
Registered: Mar 2001
posted March 08, 2002 18:16               


Ooooh, more crap writing. I should've stopped reading right here:
quote:
Originally posted by Maj:
the actors are aging in real time and even in Hollywood an actor nearing 30 can’t go on playing a schoolkid.

Clearly this man knows nothing about American TV.

------------------
"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."

IP: Logged

posted March 08, 2002 18:16                Ooooh, more crap writing. I should've stopped reading right here:
quote:
Originally posted by Maj:
the actors are aging in real time and even in Hollywood an actor nearing 30 can’t go on playing a schoolkid.

Clearly this man knows nothing about American TV.

------------------
"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."
quote:IP: LoggedshellybeanCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 192
Registered: May 2001
posted March 08, 2002 22:02               


I don't really know how to react to this article. This guy doesn't seem to like Buffy at all but seems to give it credit because so many other people do. And did he call us Buffy obsessed people sad? What a jack ass!

IP: Logged

posted March 08, 2002 22:02                I don't really know how to react to this article. This guy doesn't seem to like Buffy at all but seems to give it credit because so many other people do. And did he call us Buffy obsessed people sad? What a jack ass!IP: LoggedBonesFloating Rose


Posts: 27
Registered: Oct 2001
posted March 09, 2002 00:01               

As I pointed out at HDC, the show got excellent newspaper coverage the weekend before this article came out, so I think this is a response to that....

It is a financial paper, that this "review" was in, so can anyone smell a desperate attempt to get readers ???

IP: Logged

posted March 09, 2002 00:01               
As I pointed out at HDC, the show got excellent newspaper coverage the weekend before this article came out, so I think this is a response to that....

It is a financial paper, that this "review" was in, so can anyone smell a desperate attempt to get readers ??? IP: Loggedwith catlike treadBlessed Wannabe


Posts: 6
Registered: Feb 2002
posted March 09, 2002 00:03            


This is simply academia snobbery and not worth worrying about.

1st, the guy is a 'professor of classics at Oxford Univerity'. This means he simply cannot tolerate anything that wasn't originally in latin or greek (presumably, though, he gets a thrill from some of the spells in BvTS!).

2ndly, he is clearly of the 'old school' academia that views 'pop culture' as for the massess and not for intellectuals to be concerned about. I mean, if the person on the street can understand it or watches it, then it simply cannot be worthy of some highly intellectual and well educated person taking notice of. Plus, as an oxford don, he has a political agenda to oppose any American cultural imperialism. He will also hate 'friends', baseball caps, McDonalds, Starbucks and coca cola.

these are the same people who deplore 'Harry Potter' because they feel that if you are going to read you should read Shakespeare or Henry James or, presumably, you should just not read at all. Science fiction and fantasy books, well, they are just comic books with words and comic books are just archie and donald duck and therefore also are not worth anyones attention (excepting, of course, greek and roman myths, which aren't really fantasy).

(ah, that wasnt meant to be such a rant. But why review a book about a show you have no interest in, are glad you have no interest in and which you dont watch. Unless you think it a way to kick someone who doesn't do what you think an academic should do. Maybe I should do a review of Joyce - never read any of his books, but I know some Irish people and have had plenty of Guiness).

IP: Logged

posted March 09, 2002 00:03             This is simply academia snobbery and not worth worrying about.

1st, the guy is a 'professor of classics at Oxford Univerity'. This means he simply cannot tolerate anything that wasn't originally in latin or greek (presumably, though, he gets a thrill from some of the spells in BvTS!).

2ndly, he is clearly of the 'old school' academia that views 'pop culture' as for the massess and not for intellectuals to be concerned about. I mean, if the person on the street can understand it or watches it, then it simply cannot be worthy of some highly intellectual and well educated person taking notice of. Plus, as an oxford don, he has a political agenda to oppose any American cultural imperialism. He will also hate 'friends', baseball caps, McDonalds, Starbucks and coca cola.

these are the same people who deplore 'Harry Potter' because they feel that if you are going to read you should read Shakespeare or Henry James or, presumably, you should just not read at all. Science fiction and fantasy books, well, they are just comic books with words and comic books are just archie and donald duck and therefore also are not worth anyones attention (excepting, of course, greek and roman myths, which aren't really fantasy).

(ah, that wasnt meant to be such a rant. But why review a book about a show you have no interest in, are glad you have no interest in and which you dont watch. Unless you think it a way to kick someone who doesn't do what you think an academic should do. Maybe I should do a review of Joyce - never read any of his books, but I know some Irish people and have had plenty of Guiness).IP: LoggedmuciferWillowhand


Posts: 328
Registered: Sep 2000
posted March 09, 2002 09:12            


i thought the article was insulting to americans in general. but, oh well many are pretty dense. so people get the show on different levels. how does that make it a shallow show?
as far as intellectuals go there are articles written praising buffy from harvard professors and such. so this author shouldnt does not represent the intellectual community .
then part of me says "hey it's just a tv show and everyone has a right to her own opinion."

IP: Logged

posted March 09, 2002 09:12             i thought the article was insulting to americans in general. but, oh well many are pretty dense. so people get the show on different levels. how does that make it a shallow show?
as far as intellectuals go there are articles written praising buffy from harvard professors and such. so this author shouldnt does not represent the intellectual community .
then part of me says "hey it's just a tv show and everyone has a right to her own opinion."
IP: LoggedUnder Her SpellCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 223
Registered: Dec 2001
posted March 09, 2002 12:38               
Buffy's a postmodern show, so recycling of 'unoriginal' elements is essential to it: putting a new spin on old cliches. As is the way it doesn't take itself seriously, without being self-consciously a comedy show.

This guy here is a critic of postmodernism, as he clearly thinks Mozart is better because it's old, a view postmodern critics reject. Mozart was pop music in his day (or at least, many other famous composed were), as was Shakespeare pop theatre. The 'sense of proportion' he's talking about simply means that he thinks you can talk about pop culture, providing you don't dare to say it's actually as good the pop culture of a few hundred years ago. Shakespeare, Dickens, Bronte, Browning, Shelley, Byron, Frost, Beethoven - all of these were pop culture.

My problem is that a lot of the essays I've read on Buffy don't take a postmodern tack; they don't talk about Hammer Horror, comics or Femminism, they talk about the 'old' stuff, and keep comparing Buffy to it; Buffy is like Shakespeare, but it's also a lot more like 'Bride of the Vampire' and Marvel comics.

IP: Logged

posted March 09, 2002 12:38                Buffy's a postmodern show, so recycling of 'unoriginal' elements is essential to it: putting a new spin on old cliches. As is the way it doesn't take itself seriously, without being self-consciously a comedy show.

This guy here is a critic of postmodernism, as he clearly thinks Mozart is better because it's old, a view postmodern critics reject. Mozart was pop music in his day (or at least, many other famous composed were), as was Shakespeare pop theatre. The 'sense of proportion' he's talking about simply means that he thinks you can talk about pop culture, providing you don't dare to say it's actually as good the pop culture of a few hundred years ago. Shakespeare, Dickens, Bronte, Browning, Shelley, Byron, Frost, Beethoven - all of these were pop culture.

My problem is that a lot of the essays I've read on Buffy don't take a postmodern tack; they don't talk about Hammer Horror, comics or Femminism, they talk about the 'old' stuff, and keep comparing Buffy to it; Buffy is like Shakespeare, but it's also a lot more like 'Bride of the Vampire' and Marvel comics.IP: LoggedPandoraSpocksBlessed Wannabe


Posts: 16
Registered: Mar 2002
posted March 09, 2002 15:49            


You Know what I thinks "sad", A person who has nothing better to do than trash something he doesn't seem that interested in anyway. If he wants to constructively criticize something he feels passionate, about fine. I usually go out of my way to avoid articles like that. What can be "sad" about taking pleasure from something, that can stimulate the mind as well as the heart
That's all I have to say.

IP: Logged

posted March 09, 2002 15:49             You Know what I thinks "sad", A person who has nothing better to do than trash something he doesn't seem that interested in anyway. If he wants to constructively criticize something he feels passionate, about fine. I usually go out of my way to avoid articles like that. What can be "sad" about taking pleasure from something, that can stimulate the mind as well as the heart
That's all I have to say.
Kakamabee
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby WiccanBex » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:42 am

well... at least his unfounded arguements were well-written, i guess...

EWAF, if someone *hadn't* peed in in his cereal... i bet there's a few people who would like to now. lol.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site

WiccanBex
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby concrete » Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:53 am

Friends, Romans,Kittens, lend me your ears.
I come to bury R.Jenkyns, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones
So let it be with him.
-
Feeling rather proud actually, the realization that merely being a great fan of Buffy can be the cause of these emotions. I mean: the power!!! to be able to bring out all this. I think it’s fantastic.......

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It's not so much that I'm always right, it's just that I'm never wrong.....
{pecunia non olet}

[This message has been edited by concrete (edited March 08, 2002).]

concrete
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Dazey » Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:16 pm

Ooooh, more crap writing. I should've stopped reading right here:
quote:
Originally posted by Maj:
the actors are aging in real time and even in Hollywood an actor nearing 30 can’t go on playing a schoolkid.

Clearly this man knows nothing about American TV.

------------------
"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."
quote:

Dazey
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby shellybean » Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:02 pm

I don't really know how to react to this article. This guy doesn't seem to like Buffy at all but seems to give it credit because so many other people do. And did he call us Buffy obsessed people sad? What a jack ass!
shellybean
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Bones » Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:01 pm


As I pointed out at HDC, the show got excellent newspaper coverage the weekend before this article came out, so I think this is a response to that....

It is a financial paper, that this "review" was in, so can anyone smell a desperate attempt to get readers ???

Bones
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby with catlike tread » Fri Mar 08, 2002 10:03 pm

This is simply academia snobbery and not worth worrying about.

1st, the guy is a 'professor of classics at Oxford Univerity'. This means he simply cannot tolerate anything that wasn't originally in latin or greek (presumably, though, he gets a thrill from some of the spells in BvTS!).

2ndly, he is clearly of the 'old school' academia that views 'pop culture' as for the massess and not for intellectuals to be concerned about. I mean, if the person on the street can understand it or watches it, then it simply cannot be worthy of some highly intellectual and well educated person taking notice of. Plus, as an oxford don, he has a political agenda to oppose any American cultural imperialism. He will also hate 'friends', baseball caps, McDonalds, Starbucks and coca cola.

these are the same people who deplore 'Harry Potter' because they feel that if you are going to read you should read Shakespeare or Henry James or, presumably, you should just not read at all. Science fiction and fantasy books, well, they are just comic books with words and comic books are just archie and donald duck and therefore also are not worth anyones attention (excepting, of course, greek and roman myths, which aren't really fantasy).

(ah, that wasnt meant to be such a rant. But why review a book about a show you have no interest in, are glad you have no interest in and which you dont watch. Unless you think it a way to kick someone who doesn't do what you think an academic should do. Maybe I should do a review of Joyce - never read any of his books, but I know some Irish people and have had plenty of Guiness).

with catlike tread
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby mucifer » Sat Mar 09, 2002 7:12 am

i thought the article was insulting to americans in general. but, oh well many are pretty dense. so people get the show on different levels. how does that make it a shallow show?
as far as intellectuals go there are articles written praising buffy from harvard professors and such. so this author shouldnt does not represent the intellectual community .
then part of me says "hey it's just a tv show and everyone has a right to her own opinion."
mucifer
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby Under Her Spell » Sat Mar 09, 2002 10:38 am

Buffy's a postmodern show, so recycling of 'unoriginal' elements is essential to it: putting a new spin on old cliches. As is the way it doesn't take itself seriously, without being self-consciously a comedy show.

This guy here is a critic of postmodernism, as he clearly thinks Mozart is better because it's old, a view postmodern critics reject. Mozart was pop music in his day (or at least, many other famous composed were), as was Shakespeare pop theatre. The 'sense of proportion' he's talking about simply means that he thinks you can talk about pop culture, providing you don't dare to say it's actually as good the pop culture of a few hundred years ago. Shakespeare, Dickens, Bronte, Browning, Shelley, Byron, Frost, Beethoven - all of these were pop culture.

My problem is that a lot of the essays I've read on Buffy don't take a postmodern tack; they don't talk about Hammer Horror, comics or Femminism, they talk about the 'old' stuff, and keep comparing Buffy to it; Buffy is like Shakespeare, but it's also a lot more like 'Bride of the Vampire' and Marvel comics.

Under Her Spell
 


Buffy’s Biggest Fans Are A Pain In The Neck

Postby PandoraSpocks » Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:49 pm

You Know what I thinks "sad", A person who has nothing better to do than trash something he doesn't seem that interested in anyway. If he wants to constructively criticize something he feels passionate, about fine. I usually go out of my way to avoid articles like that. What can be "sad" about taking pleasure from something, that can stimulate the mind as well as the heart
That's all I have to say.
PandoraSpocks
 


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