Thread Subject: Discussion S5E6 -- Family

[Roxton]

posted 11-09-2000 16:01 EST (US)
I don't know if Beth still believed in the demon curse at the end and I doubt if it really mattered. Beth had become so brainwashed as to the role of the women in Tara's family that the simple fact Tara wouldn't return to look after her father and brother was, in her mind, both incomprehensible and unforgivable.

[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited 11-09-2000).]

[Nouvelle]

posted 11-09-2000 19:53 EST (US)
Little Willow, the Twilight Zone episode you're thinking of may be "Jess-Belle". It was a one hour episode from season four that stared James Best (Cleatus from The Dukes of Hazzard). Just scanning over my copy of The Official Twilight Zone Companion I see a pic of Best with two actress, one brunette and one blond and in the episode description I see the words majic and menfolk. If you want the more detailed description let me know. When I saw Cousin Beth my first thought was of The Stepford Wives. Anyone remember that?

One other thing Little Willow, since you know Amber did she tell you what Taras' secert was going to be? And what's up with her hair? Like I said before she looks totally brunett now. In the earlier episodes she looks very blonde. Is it Joss or Amber who wanted to make the switch? I'm just wonderin. Thanks.

[xita]

posted 11-09-2000 23:08 EST (US)
I think Amber's hair looks different when light hits it as well, I mean in addition to any color changes that might have been made. I think everyone is protective of Dawn, not just Willow and Tara and it's because that was implanted in them, along with the fake memories.

[Ham]

posted 11-10-2000 02:49 EST (US)
Finally saw the ep after having computer trouble, man it was worth the wait.
I loved how the ep was all about facial expressions. Amber's smile that starts out all wonky and then just gets grinny is beautiful. Especially in the bed scene (Who'd of thought we'd be able to say bed scene?) and the bit at the end where Beth asks if she's happy. Once again Aly is also a queen of expressions. I hate that that girl can make me teary just by looking a little upset. Who didn't cry during Consequences when Willow found out about Faith and Xander?
Joss is a god, no doubt now. I promise to never doubt the man again, he knows what he's doing. Not for a long while have we had an episode this romantic and heart wrenching that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Plus after 6 viewings it still hasn't worn off. I like that Tara was the catalyst for the supposed theme of this season. It was because of her that the Scoobies were all brought together as a family. I feel Dawn will be the one to keep them this way. And now that Tara's a real scooby there'll be no getting rid of her that easily. I'm glad she'll be around in a Scooby capacity for a while.
I also enjoyed the way Joss compared B/R and W/T during the party. Riley comes in and they're all smoochy but not much spark, then W/T dance and it's electric. And they used the L word again, hurrah.

The best ep so far, I'm now really waiting for the next Marti ep, For Your Love, that sounds exciting.

[Little Willow]

posted 11-10-2000 03:12 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by spuckie:
Little Willow - if yer feeling old, i must be fossilizing as we "speak"...

---

LOL! No!!
I always feel old. I always say, my age is older than I look, younger than I feel.

------------------
:: she's essential
www.AmberBenson.net
:: get willow power
www.members.tripod.com/little__willow/wpwp.html

----------------------------------
http://little__willow.tripod.com
http://www.gist.com/tvclubs/fanclub.jsp?fanclub=buffy
http://www.envy.nu/yourgirl

[Little Willow]

posted 11-10-2000 03:17 EST (US)
Nouvelle: "Jess-Belle" is precisely it! THANK YOU! If you watch it, see if I'm nuts about the similarities - and I mean strictly in features of the girls, Cousin Beth is like a hybrid.

"The Stepford Wives" -- Is there an emoticon for *shudder*?

Cannot comment on the secret keeping.

I don't know if the hair change was character-induced. It's just her hair. Usually back in a scrunchie.

Little Willow http://www.amberbenson.net/ http://www.envy.nu/yourgirl

[Seaweed]

posted 11-10-2000 11:52 EST (US)
Does anyone know what the overnight ratings were for this episode? Did it do well against election coverage?

Seaweed

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 11-10-2000 12:02 EST (US)
According to Enigma at the Cross & Stake:

quote:

---

The WB began the first Tuesday of sweeps with " Buffy, the Vampire Slayer." "Buffy" kicked its way to a 5.1/7. (3.1/5) Wesley pretended to be a vampire at 9 p.m., while "Angel" was away, helped the show to 4.4/6 (last week, " Buffy the Vampire Slayer" 3.1/5).

---

[xita]

posted 11-10-2000 12:52 EST (US)
I think the highest buffy this season was the premiere it was at 5.7. I can't remember. All things considered it did really well. All the episodes this year have picked up from last year.

[Prairiegirl]

posted 11-10-2000 14:41 EST (US)
I really liked this episode.

I was worried for a long time that Tara would become the amazing exploding girlfriend, which is what usually happens on TV. And this didn't happen.

I was also worried that if she didn't explode, that they would become the typical gay couple on TV, who you can tell that they are the gay couple of the show because they are never intimate with each other, they never touch each other, they never do the little things that people do when they are in love. And instead, this show was full of those kinds of things that people do regardless of sexual orientation.

I also liked how he tweaked the censors by having every other couple on the show kissing, just to show the inequity in how the gay charactors are treated.

A couple small niggles. I thought it was odd that Tara didn't introduce Willow to her father. Even if she isn't coming out to him, it seemed incongrious.

Also, I thought it odd that Willow never asked Tara if she wanted to leave *her*. The leaving was as much about leaving Willow as the rest of her life, and I would have thought Willow would have been more forceful to stop her lover.

As the charactors in the show have grown up and become more confident in themselves, I like how the charactor of Tara has brought back some of the ackwardness that we all feel. I like the assertiveness that Willow now shows both in the relationship,in the rest of her life, and with the gang.

There was a big change in Willow's attitude towards the relationship that I wish had been shown on screen, from when she goes from "I was so scared to tell you" to "you are essential". It is now past, but I wish Joss had shown when Willow changed from afraid to accepting to fighting for the relationship.

As to the acting, quite fun. I often feel that straight people who play gay charactors are still carrying around some subconscious internalized homophobia but I didn't really see that here. Aly, especially, seems to be able to be comfortable physically with Amber, which is nice to see. I expect this will grow with Tara as the charactor becomes more confident, giving Amber more range in this area.

All in all, I was very very very happy with the episode.

[Zelda]

posted 11-10-2000 14:53 EST (US)
On the not introducing Willow to her father front -- Tara did introduce Willow to her brother. She introduced her father to the dominant male in the group. I think there are a variety of reasons she would do that that have nothing to do with closeting her relationship. At a minimum, she may be trying to shield Willow from her father.

[xita]

posted 11-10-2000 15:33 EST (US)
I think Willow was disappointed at not being introduced but it's interestint that she introduces him to only the dominant male at the magic shop. Very much intentional.
I also think that when Willow asks Tara if she wants to leave, she's implying leave me. Afterall, really what has Tara going in Sunnydale that would prevent her from leaving. I think now, she'll feel safer to build more connections. Tara always acted like someone who didn't want to involve themselves in life and now we know why. She was so afraid she would lose it all. It's why she didn't seem to have friends. I think she got involved with Willow because she had not choice. She had to love Willow, it was overpowering. Yet still there, she was willing really not fight actively for Willow and let her choose Oz if she needed to. When Willow danced around the idea of living together, Tara shot her down. Poor Tara was so afraid she would lose it all

[Dave V]

posted 11-13-2000 11:06 EST (US)
Hi folks!

Saw "Family" on Saturday. I was totally spoiled, but my wife and some friends who watched the ep with us were unspoiled. The others all liked the episode. Personally, I was blown away by Joss, Alyson and Amber.

I cannot add too much to the other great insights posted here. However, I will make an observation. One of the women at work has started watching Buffy regularly this season, and we talk about the show occasionally. Her opinion of same-sex relationships like that of Willow and Tara is that they're "just wrong." However, she liked "Family", especially the part where Willow and the rest of the Scoobies supported Tara and stood up to her father. My co-worker agreed, your family are those who treat you best. Cool.

[Zelda]

posted 11-13-2000 12:18 EST (US)
From Cinescape.com -- Review of Family

'Buffy' Episode Review
Sidney Williams is back with his latest review of the most recent episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The most recent installment of the series, which was aired on our crazy election night, was titled "Family." Here's what Sid
has to say about it:

"Family"

Tara has been an almost silent member of the Buffy family for sometime now, significant in her relationship with Willow yet defined more by her silence and alienation.

In "Family," written and directed by series creator, Tara takes center stage, picking up were an aside in an episode last season left off. As Willow and Tara attempted a spell to
reveal demons, Tara inexplicably sabotaged the spell as Willow concentrated with closed eyes.

The reason behind that is the focal point for an episode that also features cool demons and utilizes Spike's growing Buffy infatuation while developing the recent revelation that Buffy's "sister" is actually an ancient, mystical key put into the Slayer's hands for safe keeping.

It's a suspenseful installment, directed with the style fans expect when Whedon takes the helm and acted by Amber Benson as Tara and by guest players as well. Tara's folks
have that kind of eerie, backwoods feel with hints of simmering anger mixed with dangerous ignorance.

While Tara and the folks are at the forefront, Buffy's newest nemesis is also at work, proving to be dangerous and not easily stopped. A serious showdown is somewhere in the future.

Trouble with Riley is also brewing as difficulties regarding his role in Buffy's life. He'd like to stand beside the Slayer,
but things don't quite seem to work that way.

The fifth season remains as interesting and engaging as those before, making excellent use of characters and situations.

[cookie monster]

posted 11-13-2000 20:06 EST (US)
Hi, I lurk around here but I have just registered so you may be seeing more of me. Anyhow, I have read alot of the spoiler and discussion threads on this board about Family and I have not seen something mentioned about it. That something is when Spike is walking toward Tara to hit her Willow is holding onto Tara's fingers. I know that people watch and rewatch episodes (me included) for the tiniest W/T goodness and I thought it was odd that nobody mentioned this. I only caught this today after numerous viewings so I thought I would put it up here to see if anyone else saw it. That's all I wanted to say so I'm off to the Intro thread.

cookie monster

[Zelda]

posted 11-13-2000 21:55 EST (US)
I can tell you that this is Xita's favorite moment. OK, number 4 favorite moment. I have yet to rewatch the episode to see this moment, though I have been tipped off to its existence.

Welcome Cookie Monster

[This message has been edited by Zelda (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Roxton]

posted 11-13-2000 22:31 EST (US)
Cookie, you would almost think that Willow and Spike had the same idea and were acting in unison. Although given Spike's ability to point out the obvious I think it was more likely he saw Willow holding onto Tara and took advantage of the situation. That was a great scene. Tara's reaction to Spike hitting her, then everyone's reaction to what Spike had just done and finally the way Spike summed it all up.

[xita]

posted 11-13-2000 23:02 EST (US)
Ah yes Zelda, 4th favorite moment. Sometimes we chat about things in the chat room, I forget we haven't posted it here. I have to give scificacid credit for tipping me off to the finger hold. I love it. At this point, Willow still think Tara is a demon. She has just found out she's been lied to for a long time. And yet, as soon as Tara tells her it hasn't all be lies and that she wants to stay, Willow (and I know it was Willow) reaches for Tara's finger, in front of her father even. She has to let her know everything is alright with them. VERY nice touch.

[april]

posted 11-14-2000 15:02 EST (US)
are there any good screencaps of the "tara finger moment"? (as opposed to the "willow hand moment"...goodness this sounds naughty!)

as i babbled about at length in today's OT thread, i've been away, and haven't been able to partake in "family" discussion nearly as much as i'd like. i just wanted to mention a few things:

i know this has been discussed by little willow and the gang over at amberbenson.net, but one of my very favorite moments in "family" is at the end of the scene where the scoobies stand up for tara. cousin beth bbitterly asks tara "are you happy now?", and in response, tara just lets this huge *smile* slowly spread across her face. i *love* this moment. you can totally see tara thinking about all the wonderful things that her future holds with willow and her new family. this is as close to perfect as a scene can get.

i must admit that there's one thing that baffles me about the tara's secret situation: i know that tara is shy, and was very, very frightened about her (blood-relation) family, what she thought she was going to become, and how the scoobies were going to react. i *know* how hard it is for people who've been in emotionally and physically abusive situations to talk about personal problems, especially one as complicated and dangerous as the problem that tara thought she had.

but why, *why* didn't she think that she could talk to the scoobies, or at least willow, about her "demonic side"? at the very least, couldn't she have mentioned it to *anya*?! she couldn't possibly have thought that anya would have objected to someone who was part demon. and she knew that the scoobies had befriended and dated all sorts of supernatural-type people, including vampires, werewolves, and other demons. she even saw them save oz in NMR after he turned into an obviously dangerous creature and was captured. they would totally have been willing to try and help her out, help her contol the demonic side that she thought was going to emerge. giles and willow could have found useful spells, anya could have offered practical tips, even spike, if he were in the mood, could have been helpful. were i in tara's place, i would have asked the scoobies for help as soon as i'd learned about them and the other supernatural people they'd befriended.

and in a more superficial observation, as long as w & t wear floral prints like those worn in the dance scene, the name of this board is in no jeopardy...

all in all, though, i give "family" lots of "woos", even more "hoos", and crate upon crate of extra flamey candles.

[Spring]

posted 11-14-2000 15:32 EST (US)
Well, I'm going to try to answer this one. Tara was afraid that Willow would reject her exactly because of what happened with Oz. Willow's reasoning for not getting together with Oz again are complex, but one of the reasons why Oz did leave in the end was that he could not control his dark side - yes there's acceptance, but also romantic rejection. It could be argued that seeing how Oz was treated, and seeing what really happens to you when you have a demon inside of you, that was the last thing she wanted Willow, of all people, to know about her. Although Oz is not rejected as a person, he is rejected as a lover because he cannot control that side of himself, and Tara believes that she will probably not be able to control that about herself either. Perhaps Tara wanted to avoid it as long as possible so that she could bask in their relationship for the short time (in her mind) that they could be together, before they eventually would have to break up due to her demon-ness. A real fear of Tara's could be causing physical harm to Willow in her demon state, so I wouldn't be surprised if Tara already had a plan for leaving Sunnydale behind as soon as her demon self turned out to be uncontrollably evil. Due to Tara's low self esteem , she might've expected Willow to break up with her on the spot, because Willow wouldn't want another relationship with a demon since the last one turned out so badly.
Although Anya is an ex-demon, the emphasis here is that she is a human being now, so her situation is not that similar to Tara's. Spike isn't the friendliest demon on the planet either and if it weren't for that chip in his head, it's been implied that Scooby snacks would be the first thing on the menu after he got un-chipped. In the case of Angel, if he 'gets with' Buffy, he will turn into a really, really bad person - so you can see all these demon types aren't exactly goody-goodies. In all the Scoobies are, as far as we know, human (Giles, Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Anya). And Dawn is a human girl with energy inside? I don't even know what to call Dawn, but Tara percieves her as being human.

[This message has been edited by Spring (edited 11-14-2000).]

[spuckie]

posted 11-14-2000 16:35 EST (US)
excellent ideas why tara kept things secret from the scoobies. I'd only like to add that if tara had never told anyone about her demon side, then even wouldbe supporters like the scoobs wouldn't be enuf to overcome her fears of rejection/self-hate etc etc. She was emotionally, and given big bro's attitude, potentially physically abused by her family. It would take a major emotional crisis (ie like the arrival of said family) to bring tara to talking about all this and looking for help.

[xita]

posted 11-17-2000 23:11 EST (US)
Something else I like. When Willow goes over to ask Tara to dance, she gives her the what from now on will be known as the universal lesbian touch. You know the one, the one from Superstar, starting at the elbow ending at the hand. I think Tara gives a similar touch to Willow in Where the Wild Things Are. And I am told there was a similar one between Bianca and Rain in AMC (though ABC News and the election made sure I didn't watch it). Anyway, I really like that touch in Family.

[ghaliya]

posted 11-17-2000 23:16 EST (US)
xita, combined with that look willow gives tara when she says "my dance"....sigh....
yeah i know, sappy romantic fool

[xita]

posted 11-17-2000 23:20 EST (US)
Yes, I think I am starting to resemble Spike That look is great! And also, why is Willow not wearing shoes when she's floating?

Ok, last comment. I love the way Aly keeps looking at Amber's lips there at the end! I know I would sneak a few looks myself!

[This message has been edited by xita (edited 11-17-2000).]

[darvangi]

posted 11-17-2000 23:26 EST (US)
Yeah, I wondered where Willow's shoes went too, but only for a second because I was too distracted by the sight of Tara's hideous sandals. Get thee to a Gap, witch woman.

[Spring]

posted 11-17-2000 23:30 EST (US)
Lesbian. Witch. Birkenstocks. Duh.

[Corporeal Dennis]

posted 11-18-2000 12:05 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spring:
Lesbian. Witch. Birkenstocks. Duh.

---

You tell 'em, Spring!

ObWardrobe: My favorites were Tara's Doc Martens in "This Year's Girl", though.
Which episode also featured one of the least-flattering shirts ever to exist, also on Tara.

--Dennis

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 11-18-2000 12:12 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by xita:
When Willow goes over to ask Tara to dance, she gives her the what from now on will be known as the universal lesbian touch. You know the one, the one from Superstar, starting at the elbow ending at the hand. I think Tara gives a similar touch to Willow in Where the Wild Things Are. And I am told there was a similar one between Bianca and Rain in AMC (though ABC News and the election made sure I didn't watch it).

---

Vampire Willow also gave it to Sandy in "Doppelgangland."

[Zahir]

posted 11-18-2000 12:20 EST (US)
I understand perfectly why Tara didn't tell anyone of her "demon-ness."

Fear. And shame.

Remember she is *not* experienced when it comes to love, or friendship. Most likely she was (and still is, btw) terrified of losing either. In other words, she doesn't want to rock the boat.

As for shame, she's been programmed by her family to feel exactly that about herself. Not merely her "demon" self, but the whole package (Donnie's casual threat of physical violence with no reproof from their father was chilling). Like the lesbian who remains in the closet even amongst the tolerant, Tara stayed in her closet (not that there's a metaphor going on here or anything).

------------------
"O let my name be
in the Book of Love.
If it be there,
I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out!
Or write it in anew.
But let it be
in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam