General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 8

[the literary exterminator]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
In the end, it was an act of defiance, both against the spoiler and the fact that it was threatening to dampen my finishing my book.

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I love this. So on the surface, the thread title has two meanings, ``Ending'' like the ending of a novel, and a ``Happy Ending'' as in the personal accomplishment of completing a novel. The next day, however, the title becomes ironic, as is is describing the literal happy ending of you finishing a book, but in actual fact we are faced with the prospect of an unhappy W/T ending.

Upon final analysis, though, the title is indeed accurate, as it describes your personal victory over the unhappy W/T ending to finish your book. So the REAL happy ending of Happy Ending Friday is your triumph over the emotional turmoil caused by external traumatic events. I swear, BBOvenGuy, you're half the reason I read this board.quote:

[BBOvenGuy]

It's my second book (or my fourth, if you count my fanfics, The Night of 100 Stars and The Sisters of Paradox). You can read what it's about on yesterday's daily thread.

[Rally]

me too...

just got back, catching up, opinions later.

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"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

[Scoobiedoo]

Ok. So…I knew something was up when the fresh new spoiler thread had built up 16 pages in a matter of a day. Let’s just say I’m disappointed, shocked, in grief, in denial… in sweet sweet denial. It just doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t. And I don’t think I’m going to believe it until it airs. I have faith in Joss, it wasn’t so long ago that we all did. And at this point we have no proof positive that he is doing what we all fear. Angel X is extremely reliable, but Joss is a sneaky bastard. Well I at least hope he is a sneaky bastard. But I know this : He is not ignorant or narrow-minded. And I think all those lesbians friends of his that he has mentioned would definitely beat the living bajesus out of him if he did something like this.
I have a few reasons of my own (well…mostly plagiarised re-wordings of other ultra-intelligent kitten postings, but I’ll claim them) as to why I don’t this will come to pass.

1) Joss has mentioned that the whole theme of this season was ‘oh grow up!’. So would it really make sense to punish the only character on the show who has grown up (i.e. Tara) by killing her?

2) Amber, Alyson and Joss have all mentioned how PROUD they are of presenting this relationship. Amber and Aly have said how pleased they are that lesbians come up to them all the time telling them of how grateful they are of the w/t relationship because it gave them the strength to be out and accept their homosexuality and now they are in loving relationships of their own. They were the light at the end of the tunnel for a hell of a lot of lesbians, teenagers and older, in a world where, to be frank, we are generally hated, feared, labelled as ‘deviant’, ‘unnatural’ and ‘against god’ and put down because of our ‘choice’. Film and television (and the media in general) provide a mirror for our own daily living, something to identify with. If your gay, there are very few reflections of yourself that you ever find, and very few that are positive. Most are of unhappy people, ashamed of themselves, afraid to be who they are, and punished by something or other. The only queer issue that I hear being discussed often in the media is that our suicide rate is four times that of straight people. Great! How lovely! How inspiring! Willow and Tara and their relationship provided such a beautiful reflection for us. It was love, pure and simple. It was complicated yes, but all things are.

3) Joss has previously stated how he writes the show according to what he thinks the audience ‘needs’ as opposed to what they think they ‘want’. Of course, we on this board want Tara and Willow to be together. But unfortunately, we are not the majority. And I think there are a lot more people out there who are homophobic, who ‘need’ to see a loving functional homosexual relationship displayed in the media in order to get over themselves and realise that homosexuality is a perfectly natural thing that creates wondrously beautiful love, just like heterosexuality does. The queer community does not ‘need’ another representation of a gay relationship that hasn’t worked out.

Also, if Tara not being the BSD means that Anya is, well, I don’t really like that resolution. Anya is one of the more interesting characters on the show and Emma Caulfield is a talented actress.

Btw… I am amused that some people keep calling bob the BBQ guy.

And look… even if it is true… I don’t think what we have heard is the be-all-end-all of the arc. Keeping with what we’ve been told about the writer’s sensitivities to these kind of queer issues before, having willow turn into the evil-bitch-lesbian from hell is really ignorant and promoting gay-hatred and subsequently gay-bashing. And I don’t think Joss is that mean.

Most importantly, be strong kitties. And have hope.

All my love,

Julia

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"FINE! I'll go to the pool and you can go to the museum of pools!"

[sam7777]

The Marti Noxon Article about the Willow?tara love scene was from the Dreamwatch Mar '02 issue and transcribed here: ./004512.html

quote:

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The network had been good, particularly UPN. The WB was more cautionary. They were concerned about them being in bed together and other factors, but UPN has been even more comfortable with their physicality. We haven’t done a really sexy sex scene with them. We’ve done spell sex. We’ve done metaphor sex. But we haven’t done naked sex like we have with the straight characters. That’s probably the next frontier. I’ll get back to you on that one! [laughs] It may be time to see how far we can go there. I do believe that that’s where a real fight [with the network] would happen.

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Marti doesn't mention an ep# but most folks assume it will be the next ep that she writes ep 21.

quote:

[bzengo]

Does anyone yet have the interview with Emma which has been mentioned a number of times today? The one where people have said she has - parphrasing now - a retrospective or wistful tone?

Anyone? Buhler?

[Ari]

bzengo,

Here you go: ./004751.html

[xita]

Marti could have been talking about 19... which goes along the lines of what stephen said about not killing tara cause who would he write lesbian sexyness for.

[bzengo]

Thanks much.

[ReiZo]

hi kittens on this really sad sad day..

i dont cry.. i never cry, but this news just made me do that, and i was all depressed.. and i'm all sad.. and anxious.. .. but.. i still have hope.. in the writers...in how fake spoilers can be, even coming from the most reliable source...

what do i think? well that's this season was a nightmare for everyone. xander not getting married 'cause someone from his future shows him a marriege like his parents.
anya gettin' bumped the day of her wedding, letting her alone dealing with the guests.
willow losing the love of her life, the one who loved her completely, becausef her magic addiction, then she gets out from her addictions, return with her love, and her love is killed.
tara: well her soulmate betraying her, manipulating her mind, making up withher.. and then.. getting killed
buffy: having sex with spike, riley returning with a happy life,and a beautiful perfect wife and working in a stupid place with stupid clothes and stupid people.
dawn: everybody just treating her like she doesnt exists,a nd the onluy one that treats her like a teenagers, like she want to be treated is killed.

this season will be a dream, a horrible dream for everyone.. and yes.. i'min denial.. and i'm not.. and i'm just going crazy with this stupid spoilers..

first i'm ding the happy dance with the kiss at the end of ep 18 .. then i'm all sad and crying.. i hate crying.

i need a chocolate.. and a ticket for the denial bus.. or the other bus..

and if the spoilers are true and tara is dying.. i will not be watching buffy anymore.. i started to see it because of my two beautiful girls... the hug in ep 2 of S5 just melted my heart... and now.. my heart is all broken and.. and.. i need to get a life... i really need toget a life.. its just that they developed tara's character so well.. and if she kill her after the make up, after she has growed up it will be like saying "growing up is bad because, if you are not killed by a bad guy accidentaly, you will be in serious danger"
damn.. i'm babbling.. damn..i need to go to that bus now..

i hope you guys goteverything , or most of all tings i said.. cause.. my english is awful... really bad... likethe weather here.. it's windy.. and all depressing.. why is everything all depressing?

BTW.. if tara dies.. what will happen to the kitten board? is it going to disappear or is itgoing to change its name for "the disappeared kitten, the evil crazy witch, and her dead soulmate with the bad wardrobe" or for"let's kill BTVS writers" or "I hate joss whedon and marti noxon" or "the former w-t board, 'cause one of them is dead and we dont watch the show anymore"?
and whats going to happen with the fics?
and with my life? will i get one soon?
will people stop askin me if i'm gay?

ok .. i'm still babbling... goddess.. i need to calm down.. i'm hiperventilating....

sorry for the typing... and plz.. can someone send me a hug.. and a ticket.and a life?

we can do this dear kittens.. we can... or not..

[lesbianinmaine]

What a rollercoaster of a day this has been. First off, I want to say how proud I am of this community. The love and support shown here over the past 15 hours is astounding.
Secondly, AngelX handled this with grace and compassion. She has my total respect.
There have been so many posts that have helped me feel better about this, and get back to what I have always held onto about this show-Trust Joss. I am ready for the ride, I am ready to believe this will end up in a better place. I went looking for this quote from Joss- "I love invoking all those(old horror)movies, but at the same time, the core of this series, emotionally, is a very safe place."
I also wanted to mention the post from CPS Boy, back around page 12 or 13. That was one of the most touching and heartfelt posts I've read, thank you.
I've been thinking of the time/reality manipulation/shifting ideas. There does seem to be a preponderance of this theme thoroughout this season. I came up with 10 episodes that had some reference, if not outright plot point, to these ideas. And that was just what I could come up with sitting here for a few minutes.
Lastly, when is the ScullyBus due to pick me up? I have to do laundry, I expect to be on board for a while.

ReiZo- you can sit next to me on the bus, I'll share my chocolate with you! {{{{{big hug}}}}} Your english is fine, and don't worry about babbling, I think that's what we are here for. Chin up, read some of the levelheaded, optimistic posts and visit the Kitten as often as you can.

[This message has been edited by lesbianinmaine (edited March 10, 2002).]

[Sheila]

I've been following this thread all day and I have to say that this board is one of the best places to be. So many wonderful people together! I read posts that made me cry like a baby (well, the whole Tara dying thing left me almost in tears anyway...), others that made me laugh and have hope, but all of them so very caring to all fellow kittens, it's amazing. Thank you all for all your words and thoughts in such a hard time. *hugs*

I have to say that I may very well be the driver of the DenialBus. I just can't see this happen. It's not logical and it's not right. I tried to be very rational, at least for a little while, and think about all the consequences that would follow if this really happened. They just don't fit the plot, the show, the characters, nothing! Tara's death does not make any sense. The only reason that I could see for this to happen would be Amber wanting to leave the show, which I don't think it's happening.

But, even being in denialand, it still hurts sooo bad... :-( because there's always that little shadow following you, reminding you that there is a possibility that it is true. :-( I am just so tired, like all of you, of not having ONE SINGLE lesbian couple to follow on TV!! First, it was Babylon 5 with its 2 years building up Ivanova and Talia's relationship, finally we got to the episode where they sleep together, and then Talia is gone for good (that was not the producers fault, at least, Andrea Thompson left the show, but anyway). Then, Xena, no explanation necessary, of course. And now, Buffy??? You know, there's only so much I can take...

You know what scares me? It was the first time I saw a truly, completely meant to be couple on TV. They made me believe in soulmates. They showed me something that I wish I could have, a goal for a as-perfect-as-possible realtionship. And I have to confess, even if in small little silly things, but they did help me and my partner to make our relationship better (she's a huge W/T fan too).

We need role models so bad and, if there's any in Buffy, it is Tara. She is the best human being in that show. If she dies, what is the message? Yes, we all know the show was always about "bad things also happen". But, after everything we went thorugh this season, I would like to ask Joss if, in his world, good thing never happen. Because in mine, I have both. In Buffy, I don't.

Sheila

[JBC]

I rarely post here, but I just want to say my heart goes out to every kitten. For the past 3 hours, I've gone through various stages of shock, denial, unwilling acceptance, rage, back to denial ...

(During the height of one of my more delirious stages, I wished that the Tara who dies isn't really Tara but some imposter created by Rack or Amy to push Willow back to using dark magick ... What can I say, I'm going crazy.)

Right now, I don't really know what to believe. A part of me wants to believe that this truly is a red herring by JW and ME. Another part wants to believe that this horrible event will be reversed by time travel or a wish.

Sigh... Honestly? I just feel deflated and completely devastated. Don't think my brain (or heart) can take much more speculation. Pessimism isn't something I normally succumb to, but I find it hard to resist now...

The only hope I can cling to is that nothing is set in stone until the episode airs... but that's not very comforting at all...

I know everyone here knows what I'm talking about and it makes things easier knowing that I'm not alone.

I've never said it before, but I really am grateful for the kitty board and all of its members. I don't know how I would have gotten through this news without you.

[silverangel]

quote:

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Originally posted by lesbianinmaine:

I also wanted to mention the post from CPS Boy, back around page 12 or 13. That was one of the most touching and heartfelt posts I've read, thank you.

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Amen to that. After reading your post, I went back to read CPS Boy's post and starting crying all over again. He gets it. He totally gets it. I also started crying when I read ReiZo's (Sorry if spelled wrong)post. The raw emotion and honesty, and support that has come out in the last day just floors me. I was always a fan of this board before, and proud to be a Kitten. But today I am more so. I just want to say thanks for that. And thanks for letting me be emotional-gal.

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Willow and Tara's Lovequote:

[Lijdrec]

I'm still saying my prayers and hoping that this is some cruel Jossian Joke to uncover leaks. Numfar, please, do a Dance of Love, Hope, and Peace....not to mention Sanity.

*hugs* all around, stiff upper lips, keep a good thought..... ta-ta

[BishopII]

Regarding "reset button episodes"... well, I think it's less of a "reset" if someone still knows. The idea here would have to be that someone still knows -- otherwise they'd make all the same mistakes again. It's 'I Will Remember You' over on Angel... very sad, heart-wrenching episode, but it didn't seem pointless just because it got erased at the end. And why not? Because Angel remembered it, and that meant that, to some extent, all of it happened.

[dulcinea]

this was a great way to end my weekend....I had to go away and compose myself. I'm devastated, but it's nice to be able to come here and see that other people care as much as I do. It's kinda comforting.
only a spoiler like this could cause me to stop lurking and post. BUT, after going away, and thinking about it, I'm hopping on that big scullybus!! Yep, I'm going into denial mode.
seriously, my train of thought and the trail of posts saying the same things I was thinking, led me to a place where I came to believe it's a fake, to create interest, up the angst...wouldn't a spoiler like this pull in the ratings? All those people hanging out for someone to die?

I'm just going to stop panicking and wait to see what happens.

big hugs to everyone,

[LeatherQueen]

So I've been sitting here all day reading and watching as this thread grew and grew. I read Michelle's post soon after it came out and instantly, my heart dropped into my stomach and it hurt to breathe.

So I stopped, and thought about it. And then continued to read all the posts here on this thread and at other places and lists. I've read the theories and the rants and listened to others thoughts and hopes and prayers.

And the conclusion I've come to? I can't believe they would do this. I can't believe that Joss would ever pull a Tapert on us. I can only hop on the Denial Bus and continue the thought that this is some grand ruse to smoke out the spoiler sources and throw us off the real story. Because if I believe for one minute that this is real and that this season will play out this way... my head will explode.

So... save me a seat on the Denial Bus, pass me some jam tarts, and everyone get that group hug going again.

And thank the Goddess and the mods for the Kittens and the Board. We'll get each other through the coming dark weeks of re-runs.

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"Honey, I'm the original one-eyed chicklet in the kingdom of the blind." -Glory

[Willowfan]

For me...I think that in order to stop from breaking down into a jumble of sobs and crying fits, I am going to wait until I actually see tara get killed. I have found that spoilers tend to be half truths and even the most reliable sources have only gotten half of the story. I also have faith in Joss. He IS human after all, and he created this beautifl relationship, I don't think he would give it back to us and then kill it. That's just mean.So until I see Tara hit the ground, I'm going to wait and see...and hope.
(Deny,deny,deny...)
But hey...it's either that or break down into a blubbering mass of jelly.
Willowfan

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Tara:You found me...
Willow: I'll always find you.

[Bishop2]

Hey there. Finally registered to post. I lurked for almost a year, posted today finally under "BishopIIAndrd" and "BishopII," and now I'm finally registered under this name. Hi everyone. I guess this spoiler is what finally got me off of my duff.

I think it's sweet that so many of you don't believe they would do something so cruel... personally, I'm getting used to the idea that they always do whatever seems cruelest to me. They've done no small number of heart-rips on me since I first started watching partway into season one. This just seems like the latest. I can't deny that they're capable of it -- I fear that they're probably capable of worse. My only hope is that, if this has to happen, I want to see her go out of the show a hero.

[icefire]

oh shit, the spoiler slayer board was updated today, and they say that warren killing tara is 'likely' now, yesterday it was 'possible'. that's bad

[Ari]

BishopII,

Actually that's not true, it doesn't have to be that someone knows.

For example, going by one of the many rumors flying around latetly, lets say that Anya goes to Warren and offers him a wish (since she can't seem to curse Xander herself) and whatever wish he makes somehow helps to keep him from getting arrested with the other two in 19.

If most of the badness that happens from 20 on is a result of Warren and his actions, then if that wish is broken and he gets arrested with the others it effectively reverses everything he did and the it's consequences.

Ari

[lurker1.0]

*Hopping off the denial bus at Knowing it's all fake station*

Because my faith in Joss sick sick cruel mind is that strong and this all has to be false

[This message has been edited by lurker1.0 (edited March 10, 2002).]

[Bishop2]

Fair enough Ari, that could work. But I have a hard time imagining that Anya will still be a vengeance demon by the end of the season. Still, who knows.

I find it interesting that the same person who provided the "Buffy will sell her house" spoiler on the Spoiler Slayer also got another piece of info from the same source which is that Tara will not die. Of course, interestingly, the house rumor is listed as "likely."

Pump that fuel into your denial bus and watch it chug forward like a speeding train.

[maudmac]

Okay, so I get up Saturday morning, poke around on the internet for a while, check the spoiler thread here as I always do, get the major-smoochies-truly-and-forever spoiler and proceed to tralala off to work with a big smile in my heart. I was fucking TRALALA-ING all DAY today while this was going down.

In my giddy W/T Forever! state, I innocently assumed the five million posts that had popped up in, what?, 7 hours, were just all the Kitties gushing over The Reconciliation, The First Passionate Kiss, etc. I thought, "Ooo! MORE goodness!"

Someone should have queued up some ominous music right about then.

I join with the Kitties of the World in feeling like I've been reassured, hugged, and comforted only to be decimated, ravaged, and shattered. But I'm starting to get with the huggies again.

Because this just feels so wrong, for reasons already outlined. Many, many thanks to all of you who've laid out exactly what is wrong with this. It's like a hug.

Many thanks to Michelle for being so sensitive and respectful about all of this. You truly are in a class by yourself.

Many thanks to the mods, especially Xita, for providing us with this board in the first place, vigilantly maintaining its role as a haven, and for guaranteeing its continuance No Matter What.

Most of all, thanks to my fellow Kitties. I know it sounds cheesy, but I love you all. I don't know what I'd do without you.

I'm starting to think that the folks who are swallowing this spoiler without a thought are the ones who're really riding the Denial Bus. Please let me be right.

Take care, Kitties.

[jomarch]

God, what horrible news. I logged on yesterday and got the brilliant Ep18 spoilers and got all happy. Then come back from a great game of golf to find the most devastating news. I knew that 18 pages of the new spoiler thread was not a good thing .
I will add my thanks to AngelX for providing the spoilers and for trying to soften the blow with the coffee shop scene.

[circe]

looking past the ickiness of that post... sigh...

off the pc for the last two days... spent most of today in bed... sick , my kids running all over... hubby watching them... catching up on my Laurel Hamillton book, finally feel up to reading emails and get hit on the head with a 2x4!

sitting at the screen chanting nononono all nite.. I just can't wrap my mind around these rumors/spoilers... I will refuse to believe them until the very end... so if there is any room on that bus, can I come too?

oh, jus to make someone ,anyone smile, my 4 year old today , when she woke up from her nap told me about her dream. She dreamed I was a mermaid with pink hair and a purple tail...Little did she know I always wanted to be a mermaid when I grew up!

peace...
circe

[Eric tr]

You know, not to seem like I'm just grasping at nothing here, but wasn't there a spoiler somewhere that said that Tara does not die before Episode 21? I remember reading it somewhere, but I can't remember where. I'm just trying to keep the hope alive.

And, after thinking this over for a while, I think I'm going to keep lurker1.0 company at the 'Knowing it's all Fake Station'.

[circe]

sorry, my computer did something funky...
again, my bad,
circe

[VampNo1]

I personally don't know what to think. Yesterday I was so exicted to read about the passionate reunion of W&T at the end of episode 18. To think all last night I was thinking about the shooting script info we got from DSM, and counting the days down to April 23(the day of the episode). I wasn't even going to go on the board tonight, but at the last minute I changed my mind, and when I saw the thread at so many posts I had to see what was going on. Now I am plain numb. As others have said this spoiler as it is doesn't make sense. Why would the writers use the ultimate cliche of killing one lesbian, and making the other one evil. There can be no true redemption for Willow now, so what purpose will her character serve next season? I am not naive to think the writers wouldn't kill off a beloved character, but to basically tell the audience if you find your soulmate, and you are a good person, basically one will end up dead, and the other will become revengeful murderer isn't the message I want to belive in.

I pray to God that Joss is spreading false spoilers to get to the leaks, because if this is really true I don't know if I could ever enjoy this show again. Thanks to everyone who posted positive remarks using common sense to show why these spoilers at face value really don't make any sense. I needed to hear these comments, and with these thoughts I am still holding on to a thread of hope that in the end everthing will work out. Lastly, that me say even though I only registered this month I have been lurking pretty much since the board has been created, and I want to thank everyone for being so kind and respectful even in dire time such as this.