Buffy & Faith - never?

[Sarah-B]

Just thinking about Eliza Dushku and how she backed out of doing that lesbian scene in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back for family reasons (her grandmother is a mormon).

I suppose this means that even if Faith ever returned, the dreams of all B/F shippers are looking more distant than ever.
I know this is a W/T board and all, but I guess I just felt like using this icon ->

Sarah-B.

[supermus]

what lesbian scene in J&Silent Bob? i hadn't heard about that.

[Robin]

Sorry, but there would definitely never be a B/F relationship or what ever. Buffy is straight (what about all the male viewers?!). I mean every station, even UPN would say no.

[Sarah-B]

Supermus, there was going to be a scene (most likely humourous), but Eliza decided not to do it. Kevin Smith the director mentions this on the dvd. Eliza apparently decided not to because she had already done a lesbian scene in 'Soul Survivors', and because of the sensitivity of her family to such things.
Sarah-B.

[Zahir]

You know, I gotta point out the real problem with any B/F love stories: Buffy is straight.

Sure, she's got strong feelings for and about Faith. Yep, Faith is enough to temp even the most hetero-inclined of females (imo). And sure, there's loads of chemistry between them.

But.

Buffy is straight. If she wasn't (as recent events methinks have proven) Faith's whole bad-girl-ness would have proven no impediment whatsoever to them destroying a house of their very own!

Personally, I think that makes Faith an even more tragic character. Unrequited love sucks. Hard.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Shewolf]

'Yep, Faith is enough to temp even the most hetero-inclined of females (imo). And sure, there's loads of chemistry between them'

One heterosexual female tempted by Faith reporting!!!!!

Eliza certainly has a type of sensuality that appeals to most people.

[This message has been edited by Shewolf (edited March 05, 2002).]

[Under Her Spell]

In 'Bad Girls' they did play with the idea of Buffy and Faith together, and I can see Faith as being bi, but even so, Buffy isn't exactly her greatest fan, is she? Straightness aside, Buffy hates Faith, even more than she hates Spike, so... er...

[wiltar]

Eliza did a lesbian scene in Soul Survivors? does anyone know if I can dl that scene somewhere?

Thanks in advance

Patricia

------------------
"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

[Sarah-B]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robin:
Sorry, but there would definitely never be a B/F relationship or what ever. Buffy is straight (what about all the male viewers?!). I mean every station, even UPN would say no.

---

Regarding Buffy being straight, I just wanted to mention - some ppl can of course go through their whole lives thinking they're straight until they meet someone of the same sex that they like. So in theory, there is no law of the universe that says it's impossible.
But ok, in the context of the show it's unlikely. Although there was also a time I would have thought Willow was pretty unlikely to ever be a lesbian.

And about the male viewers. Well if they love the show, then they shouldn't switch off simply coz Buffy had a fling with Faith. I'm sure some of them liked Willow too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by wiltar:
Eliza did a lesbian scene in Soul Survivors? does anyone know if I can dl that scene somewhere?

---

I have some caps, but that's all. I can put them up somewhere if anyone wants.

Sarah-B.quote:quote:

[Anne]

On the commentary to Bad Girls (season 3 DVD) there are frequent references to lesbian subtext, but even I, an avid B/F shipper, doesn't think it will exist except outside the cannon. As for Soul Survivours, apparently, there were some scenes filmed that were cut, and the best place to find them would be the Killer Cut version of the DVD when it comes out. The stills on the net that have been released are few and far between...but from what we can see, there was definitely something additional filmed!

A much cited eg I added onto my site to give you a hint... http://members.tripod.com/angels_flight ... /index.htm
At least, it wasn't anywhere in the Brit version I saw!!!

[This message has been edited by Anne (edited March 05, 2002).]

[Wiccagrrl]

Ya know, I have a feeling that Eliza wasn't so much uncomfortable with the concept of doing a lesbian scene (she's done them before, and there was definitely B/F subtext) I think, from what was said on the J&SBSB commentary that she was probably getting a bit concerned about getting typecast (the did mention her grandmother being morman, though...but also that she had just done a scene for soul survivors, and didn't want to do another one so soon)

As for B/F ever being canon, I agree it's doubtful. When it came to the subtext, I never felt anything had ever happened between them, that there was a definite attraction on Faith's part, and *possibly* a slight attraction on Buffy's part. I also felt that Angel's coming back and Buffy lying about it did some real damage to their relationship. (and found it interesting that Faith seemed to take that worse than any of the Scoobs- even though she had never met Angel and wasn't around when he went bad)

[Regular in anon mode]

Anne, the Season 3 DVD is out??? What did the commentary about lesbian subtext for BAD GIRLS say? I am dying of curiosity!!

Never mind... found a board dedicated to B/F that quoted the commentary (and I see it's the lucky UK folks who have their sweaty hands on Season 3 DVD).

For those who care:

Doug Petrie's commentary during BAD GIRLS:
"And here we've got the growing lesbian subtext between these two, which was always fun to play with...
Eliza was always pushing the sexuality, and no-one remembered to... stop her, which we were all very happy about..."
when faith draws the heart for buffy on the window doug says that this gesture is a romantic attempt on faith's part to seduce buffy - in point of fact he keeps mentioning the fact that faith is 'stealing buffy from willow'.

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 06, 2002).]

[tommo]

Yes, the commentary on the Season 3 DVD's weigh heavily on the fact that Faith is a seducer. But you know, she seduced Buffy emotionally and spiritually. I guess that makes her even more attractive in some ways.

------------------
Sweetie...I'm a fag.

[Sarah-B]

Yay for commentary, and dvds, and all that funky new stuff

[candace]

I think Buffy could feel Faith's attraction to her and had moments where she felt a degree of reciprocal attraction, which probably freaked her out. She was a little freaked out by Willow and Tara at first, and that did not even involve her own sexuality. This would explain why Buffy's emotions and reactions to Faith were always SO intense.

[tommo]

Honestly, in the show I really don't think a physical relationship with Faith ever crossed Buffy's mind. However, I do think the Slayers shared a bond that was deeper than friendship. But I don't think it was sexual at all. It just appeared that way because of its intensity.

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.

[La]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarah-B:
I have some caps, but that's all. I can put them up somewhere if anyone wants.

Sarah-B.

---

that'd be awesome if you could put up some caps. i for one would love to see them!

------------------
Taree: ah'm, yo' know...
Willer: Whut in tarnation?
Taree: Yourn...quote:

[Sarah-B]

quote:

---

Originally posted by La:
that'd be awesome if you could put up some caps. i for one would love to see them!

---

Okey.
Well, these are the pics from Soul Survivors of Eliza in the lesbian scene with Angela Featherstone (who was made up to look a bit boyish) (note: some nudity, so everyone close your eyes! ). This scene was cut from the movie and it only appears on the special version...

Eliza&Angela1
Eliza&Angela2
Eliza&Angela3
Eliza&Angela4

Also, here's a quick pic of Angela Featherstone I found from another movie, where she's not made-up to look boyish. Just for recognition...
Angela Featherstone

There was also this (clothed) shower scene in Soul Survivors that Eliza did with Melissa Sagemiller (the lead star of the movie, and way cuter *IMHO*), which was kinda subtext-ish ....

Eliza&Melissa1
Eliza&Melissa2
Eliza&Melissa3

That's it

Sarah-B.quote:

[Zahir]

Oh. My. God.

gottagetbacktoworkgottagetbacktoworkgottagetbacktowork...

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Web Warlock]

I always thought there was something between them, but my wife says I am on crack.

I can see Faith wanting Buffy's approval and love, but her mind that gets all tangeled up with sex. Tangled up in sex with Faith. Now there is a nice mental place.......
See her interaction with the Mayor when he get's her the new apartment.

Of course Buffy does not share those feeling about Faith, and that could very well be one of the reasons Faith seems to hate Willow so much, because Willow does have Buffy's love as her best friend.

Of course if Buffy and Faith ever did do it, that would make for an interesting conversation between Willow and Buffy. Sort of the flip side of the one in NMR. We would never see it on TV though.

Which in a way is kinda of too bad, I have always been something of a Faith-redemptionist myself. I think she could be good if someone gave her the chance.

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

[Chance]

You know, I've always been a F/B shipper, and I think it's because I see the whole tension coming from Faith... and the sort of unsure reaction coming from Buffy. And as much as I know that it's never gonna happen, it doesn't mean I can't want it to.

But I don't necessarily agree that Buffy hates Faith. I think Buffy very clearly recognizes that she could have been Faith. I think she's angry with her, I think she dislikes what she does, but I think Buffy knows Faith had a rough deal. Remember: Regardless of what their relationship is, they do have a common thread, something NO ONE else in the world has. They're both Slayers.

But no, it'll never happen on the show. That's what fic is for.

And yes -- Soul Survivors: The Killer Cut was released on February 26th here in NY, and I'm pretty sure it was nationwide in the US. Eliza looks hot throughout the whole damn thing. But she might want to start being worried about being type cast as evil. Sweet of her to worry about her grandmother, though.

[Wiccagrrl]

Chance, I agree, I think Buffy's feelings about Faith are very much tied into a "there but for the grace of my friends and family go I" thing. I think those feelings are very complicated. And I think she reacts so strongly to Faith because she sees something in Faith that scares her. She hates Faith, loves her (in whatever sense you want to see the relationship), fears her, and is somewhat envious of her and her freedom all at the same time. Any surprise then that Faith has always been able to push Buffy's buttons more than just about any other character/villain?

[tommo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Web Warlock:
I can see Faith wanting Buffy's approval and love, but her mind that gets all tangeled up with sex...See her interaction with the Mayor when he get's her the new apartment.

---

Well Faith's power often lies in her sexual attraction doesn't it? And for her, sex is another way of gaining power over people, or enabling herself to feel empowered. I think that for most of her life, Faith was unable to be the powerful person in situations, so once she discovered her sexuality, she was able to use that to good effect. I mean, I think her problem with Buffy was that no matter what she did, she could never really get a handle on the balance of power in that relationship, and define exactly where it lay between them.

The situation with the Mayor is a great example of Faith's whole take on how she sees herself. She figures that he does nice things for her because he wants her sexually. And that's her power over him. Her attachment to him grew out of an almost bewilderment that he didn't want her sexually. Imagine that, first guy in probably forever who didn't want to boink her. It's really quite sad that she has such a low opinion of herself.

quote:

---

Which in a way is kinda of too bad, I have always been something of a Faith-redemptionist myself. I think she could be good if someone gave her the chance.

---

She was given the chance. Angel gave her the opportunity and she took it. Hence the whole prison thing.

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.quote:quote:

[Glory-p3-mrs]

well - (said with a giant smirk)
i adore faith, she is my favorite character in anything ever, and i am a huge b/f shipper

i think there was unquestionably faith-for-buffy stuff going on, but that buffy-for-faith can be questioned (although take 'really, we're just good friends' and try to argue that one)
i don't think there was ever anything that happened but how i wish...
i blame wesley for faith's not coming back to the good side after talking with angel
and i can't think that buffy hated her because they made peace in the coma dream
and, hey!, forehead kiss!!
buffy didn't hate faith when she came out of the coma, faith was a bit vengefull though

and then when she was in LA, ok, *then* buffy hated faith, but i think it was only because faith had turned her back on buffy
you know, switch places?

i would love for the dark slayer to come back because i think its very much unresolved
plus she can't just sit in jail forever
if riley can come back, why can't faith?

***what b/f board was this season 3 stuff on?
i just want the board link****

and let me just say that my love for faith and all things b/f is making me very nervous about the character of justine on angel
VERY nervous...

last:
willow was straight too
there was more 'foreshadowing' of buffy being gay with all this faith subtext (you cannot deny that they didn't play with us) than with willow and only having 'vamp willow'
the straight thing is so not an issue
(wow, i wish that were true for me...{faith or riley?? hmmm...i don't know!}...)

different entirely:
*cough/sputter* where is that hand in the new 'hells bells' pic??? hmmm??

[miss_spangles]

I always kind of interpreted like Faith was a bisexual (or maybe just sexual) character who was definitely attracted to Buffy and the bond they shared as slayers. There were certainly moments where Buffy kind of flirted with Faith, but sadly, I think the character of Buffy has always been written as kind of straight.

[Kalita]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarah-B:
Well, these are the pics from Soul Survivors of Eliza

---

Whooo! Well, I say.... er... huh... huh... I'm gonna go outside now. Get some nice, cold air.

Yeah.quote:

[Righteous Babe]

Under the Production Notes from the DVD they said the character Raven played by Angela actually has no gender. At least I'm pretty sure that's what I read.

[tommo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Righteous Babe:
Under the Production Notes from the DVD they said the character Raven played by Angela actually has no gender. At least I'm pretty sure that's what I read.

---

Which, you know...is silly...because, hello! Tits!

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.quote:

[Righteous Babe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tommo:
Which, you know...is silly...because, hello! Tits!

---

Well I know of people who don't identity as neither gender, and also well I don't have breasts or a vagina and I feel I'm a woman so....

[This message has been edited by Righteous Babe (edited March 06, 2002).]quote:

[tommo]

You know, I knew once I posted that, that I would offend somebody.

I'm sorry. I will subsequently keep my tits to myself.

------------------
No metaphors...just fucking.