OT: relationship help desperately needed

[Evie]

Hey everyone, I need to get this off my chest, so please excuse the lengthy-ness of this post. I was hoping someone could offer some advice..feel free to email me. My friend Sarah Bennett recommended this site to me, so I hope it helps. At least it will let me tell my story. I'll start from the beginning.

I've been dating my girlfriend, Jack, for almost a year now. When things first started, we were both very unsure of our relationship..we decided that it was better that we end things since it was "wrong" or "unnatural" for two girls to be together. This is what we had both been taught while growing up. I went away for the summer, but she remained the person I wanted to tell things to first, and she wrote me almost every day. We were always so excited to see each other when we visited, and had difficulty distancing ourselves. We said that the only way we could grow apart (which, of course, seemed like the "right" thing to do) would be if a boy came between us. So Jaq met a boy one night at a bar, had no emotional attachment to him, dated him for 2 weeks, showed him off to her parents, then decided to end things. It hurt me a lot while this was going on, and even now it still bothers me sometimes. The thought of her being intimate with someone else rips me apart. I love her.

Jaq came out to her parents (who she lives with) b/c she wanted to maintain a truthful relationship with them. Once things were out in the open, her entire family never stopped pressuring her to end things with me. Like, every day, both her father and stepmum would have individual talks with her telling her that they don't care that she's with another woman, but that it's just her relationship with me that is bad. (This seems to be crap). They've told her that she's "missing out on opportunities" by being in a committed relationship with me, that she should "play the field", that she needs to work on her self esteem before being in any kind of relationship, and they've used deragatory comments in regards to us. They even blamed me for being "too withdrawn, too sad" at a funeral reception that we were all at. For the past 6 weeks, Jaq has been sticking up for me, telling them that she loves me and that she's not changing her mind.

The past 2 weeks she's been very stressed out, saying that her home life is incredibly tense, that her parents never want to stop talking about her sexuality. That she can't take it anymore. Even her younger sister is included in the discussions, who tells Jaq that Jaq can't possibly "really be gay" that it's just an obsession problem she has with me, that really, she likes guys. As if they are dictating who she likes or dislikes!!

We haven't had any problems, any fights or anything for a very long time. Last Thursday, Jaq told me how she was excited to spend Valentine's Day with me, and how she can't wait to hear about my weekend away and that we should catch up on Monday (today). Things were perfect.

I get home on Sunday night and there's an email from Jaq, telling me that "we can't see each other anymore." She then proceeds to give me every excuse that her parents have been telling her..."I know my parents aren't homophobic, I know that this relationship is wrong, that my parents are right, that we can't even be friends." She said that she loves me very much, that she hopes we meet up again, that this is tearing her apart, but she asks me to not contact her in any way, shape or form "not for a few weeks, not even for a few months, way longer than that." What happened?!? I am confused, angry, very upset and not knowing how to deal or how to move on. I know that I need to give her the space that she needs and that I can't force her to be okay with being gay...but it hurts me so much to have to walk away from this girl who I am in love with...how can I deal with this??? To everyone who has read this far, thanks so much for listening. If you have any advice for me, feel free to send me an email. Take care!

[shellybean]

Hey, I really want to help you with his but these type's of situations are so difficult to deal with. Unfortunately YOU can't force her to see that two women being together is NOT wrong. The most you can do is maybe show her that she needs to live her own life for herself and not for her parent's. If she truly cared for you and you truly care for her I think you should try to talk to her and work it out. Something similar to this actually happened to me, but unfortunately it did not end well. So maybe I'm not the best person to be giving out advice.

[Sarah-B]

Hey all, just wanted to mention that I suggested my friend Evie post her message here. I'm glad she did, so hopefully the Kitten community can help her out with some opinions and advice. Any thoughts would be really, really appreciated.

Sarah-B.

[MAJIK]

I can understand what you must be feeling, and patience in these situations doesn't come easily, but I think that is the best thing to do. As Shellybean said you can't tell her how she should feel or what she should do, she has to make her own decisions, as hard as that makes things for you. I was in a similar situation myself and although it worked out ok in the end, I would do things very differently now. I wanted to sort everything out quickly, I couldn't stop my contact with her and she couldn't cope with the pressure, I made myself ill and she just wanted space, which I eventually gave her-could of saved myself a lot of hassle if I had just backed off in the first place. I don't know if this is any help, I've been up for a long time, need sleep, but I've got Mumps and it's painful!

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WILLOW-
'So hard to believe such a hot mama yama came from humble geek-infested roots.'

[Wolfie]

I hope you don't mind, but I will post my comments here, rather than in an e-mail, as I feel that if I say anything that my fellow kitties disagrees with, obviously they can point it out to you, so you get an even perspective - if that makes sense! My reasons for this is that, although I am "qualified" in relating to the parent/offspring-trauma issue, being a happily married, if slightly bisexual male, I can only provide a perspective from one angle, if you will. But I'd like to try to help in my lowly way, if that's okay.

I would hope that simply having a forum such as this, where people from all walks of life, backgrounds, etc, will listen and lend a kind word (or, in my case, words), will help you at least feel a little better. Talking/writing about your experiences as they unfold, I think really helps, and I hope you feel comfortable enough to keep coming back here. We kitties are very, very good at the written hug!

Okay, so my advice is going to be very generic. I think that there may be little you can do, unless your girlfriend meets you and says "help". I would imagine she is feeling utterly wretched right now, as I am sure you are. I would say that you both need to find someone with whom you can draw comforting cuddles and a few wise words from, irrespective to what happens between you both. You might decide that you want to send your girlfriend a message, telling her how you feel about her, and that you will "be there" for her, should she need it: I am sure she'd love to hear from you, and to know that you love her, but be a little careful about how you phrase it - I know it will be difficult to do so, but if there is someone you love and trust, it might be beneficial to let them review what you would say before you send it - I refer you to a passage below, about sending intense declarations of love of the dying swan variety.

(I'm going to tread carefully, here.)

When dealing with someone who is going through a difficult time, and they are very close to you emotionally; like a lover, close friend, family member, etc, sometimes it is difficult to know what to say, because there is an emotional investment going on, which makes you feel confused yourself. But what I would say, is, even if you can't think of what to say, because you are unsure of finding the right thing to say, it doesn't have to stop you just being there - sometimes proximity is enough, anyway.

However, if I was to say anything specific, then I would suggest caution towards allowing yourself to get drawn into a war with her parents. You have got to look after yourself, as well, and people can be very spiteful and unthinking when they feel threatened. And parents can feel threatened at the drop of a hat, where their kids are concerned. This never, it seems, changes, either. Just 'cause they've gone through the rearing a child thing doesn't make a person any wiser - they're still a person, just the same as you, and no more (wo)man-of-the-worldy, if that makes sense. My hope (and it would be no more than that, really) is that your girlfriend eventually makes her own decisions, independent of her parents, and that her choices are the right ones for her. But, and there is a but here, I feel - I think it is reasonable to suggest that if the right decision means listening (mostly) to her own inner voice, then the same will have to apply for you, too - what I mean is, you will have to be prepared to give her space, and not pressure her. This is for your own sanity, as much as hers. I'll explain:

I have a close friend, who is just about the sweetest, most sensitive person I know. He broke up with his girlfriend, as the result of a silly fight. Then, said girlfriend went to Australia for a year. She is still there at the moment. My friend is besotted with her, and hopes that they might be able to get back together when she returns. He is a very intense chap - articulate, expressive, artistic - and right now, is fuelling that obsession by thinking about this girl, day and night. You see, he is finding that even the negative emotion that comes from excessive pining is better than no emotion at all, but it has culminated in the inevitability of sending an overwrought valentines card to said girl, pouring out his heart to her. If she now freaks at the intensity (they have been in contact, but it's obvious that she is taking things deliberately casually), then the real casualty will be my friend, who will be utterly devastated. He knew what we would, as his friends, have said, if he had told us of his intensions, so he did it first, then told us, to which, what can we say?

So, long story long (again): Try your best to stay objective, loving, supportive, SUPPORTED, and (if you want to) hopeful. I hope that someone objective is there, to keep an eye on your girlfriend (if you are unable, for practicle reasons, to), and make sure she has access to the kind of environment where she can work out what's right for her. It sounds as though she has a lot to overcome, and it may take some time to resolve things. I have my fingers crossed for you. As ever, I am free to be e-mailed (my mailbox is open to everyone), although I'm sure that, in this case, there are far, far more experienced peeps on here, who can give you more specific advice. I tend to be very moderate and cautious in my views, and I concede that where my fellow kitties have said "er, Wolfie - you are insane - you can't keep your mouth shut over this such-and-such", that they are probably right. If they say to you "look, don't listen to Wolfie - he's a nice geezer, but a bit of a twit", then you should listen to them:

"Beware when the so-called sagely men come limping into sight."

I hope you haven't minded my twittering.

L

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I am the sunlight on the sides of houses.

[Charlie]

First of all, welcome to the Kitten, honey.

It’s hard to offer advice without sounding preachy (though Wolfie’s done a damn good job with typical ‘twittery’ style) but one of the shittest things about relationships is that they do screw up. And unfortunately, gay relationships seem to screw up more than most, often because of all the outside pressures that straight couples just don’t have to think about. My straight friends don’t have to think about how their parents will take the news or what friends are going to think when they start dating someone of the same sex or what society in general’s reaction will be. It means that you have to get over a few more hurdles than a straight couple would before stuff settles down.

First of all, you’re right when you say you can’t force her to do anything, to be happy with being gay or with dating you. You can’t. No one can. Unfortunately, people can pressurise her to be the opposite, and it sounds like her family have done a top job of that. Having someone you love tell you they want out, that they can’t hack it anymore, is heart crushingly painful. I know because I’ve been there. And I would love to promise you that she’ll come round, that she’ll just take some time and then everything will be hunky dory again. But I can’t because it might not. Getting used to being gay, to accepting your sexuality and being happy with it is a process that takes years, lifetimes even, and some people never manage it. She may not come back, and so I’m not going to tell you that she will. I don’t know her or you and I don’t know how much ‘fitting in’ and making people (her family) happy means to her.

You, I’m afraid, are going to have to do as she asks and give her time and space. Let her know how you feel, tell her you’ll be there and that you still love her. I’m guessing she knows it all already but having it written down in front of you as a tangible proof can be a lifeline sometimes, especially since she's probably feeling wrecked right now. Don’t push yourself where she doesn’t want you to be or can't let you be, that could be destructive rather than anything else. But just let her know you’ll wait, and tell her you’ll give her the time she’s asked for. Wolfie’s right about not ending up fighting people you don’t need to fight. It sounds to me like her family are not gonna back down on this anytime soon, but there is no point in putting yourself on their firing line any more than you already are. They’re the ones who’ve made the mistakes in this, the people who’ve been unfair and unjustly pressurising. Leave it at that, accept that they’re in the wrong, and don’t let yourself hate them – it won’t help.

I would say that you really need to find someone to back you up. You need mates to help you through this, and I hope you have someone to cuddle and talk to and cry on. Don’t think you can do this alone, because we all need people there, especially when the things we care about most are collapsing. Find a friend, tell them all and get what you need to keep you going. And make sure you have people you love around you on Valentine's Day, K? I’m sending you many Kitty hugs with this message! Staying away from her may be the hardest thing you’ve ever done, but if it’s what she needs you have to love her enough to do it. Mail me whenever, OK? I had loads of important things to say but as usual when I’ve sat down to write, they’ve oozed mysteriously from my brain. If I think of anything else, I’ll post; otherwise I’ll just keep paraphrasing Luke… xx

[Evie]

Hey Majik, I hope you feel better soon! Thanks everyone for all your kind words, it did make me feel better, and a bit more in control of things.

As hard as this is, and as much as I miss every hour without her, I don't feel that have any right contacting her at all. She asked for me not to phone, not to email, and not to show up where I think she'll be on her university campus (we would often run into each other). If she gets many weeks of time to herself, would that not allow her to start thinking for herself automatically? I don't know. So much of me wants to send just a little note to say, "just make sure you make your own decisions. I love you and am listening if you want to speak to me. Until then, take care of yourself". It's so hard, because Jaq is very reluctant to disobey her father and stepmum since her real mother cut out everyone from her life and ended up very emotionally unstable. I know that Jaq never wants to end up like her mother, and I know that her parents often treat her like there's so much wrong with her, and tell her that if she doesn't listen to them that she is behaving exactly like her mum. That makes me so angry. As soon as I think about her parents I get very mad and upset, and don't know how to avoid become cynical as a result. Usually I'm a very happy person.

Luckily, I have a lot of quality friends who are all of support to me. My cuddles are limited though...my cuddle-friends all live far away But I do have supportive friends in my everyday life, and if I decided to write Jaq a note, I could definitely run it by some of them. I am sad for Jaq because she has only one friend who supports us. I don't know who is going to keep an eye on her. I feel like her family doesn't do a good enough job, but that it's not my place to interfere. She will be moving out before May, if all goes as planned, then working abroad for 4 months.

The only way I can deal with this is to think that she didn't really mean what she said, and that I'll see her in a few weeks. Otherwise, I am a crumpled mess...I don't think I've ever cried so much as I have in the past few days. I know that this can't be a healthy way of dealing with it.

Anyway, thank you all for welcoming me with open arms to the kitten community, I appreciate it I will be sure to keep you posted.

[Ange]

Hey, Evie!
Listen, i will say a little bit the same than the others on one pint. You can't force her. But it seems to me that, like you said it's not really her decision.

Things happens somtimes, in a few seconds and we only see after, what we did and the consequences of it.

Now, if Jaq, loves you, and you said that, she did, you're right. You have to let a little bit of space. You're on the same campus, so she could see you and she will have all the time to think about it.

The note is a good, thing. You have to make her feel, that you will be there, even if you're only friend with her. Not rush anything.

But, you also, have to fight. Love is the most important thing of the world. And that you'll be gay, hetero, or bi, doesn't matter. The only thing that does is love. And we don't care of the rest.
I know that it's easy to say, and harder in life, but it's real.

In another, note today, i think that if i was seeing her for a second, i will tell her that i love her. because that's the only thing that she has to know.

I'm sure that it must be very painful, for Jaq, too. And i hope that you will find a way, to be together soon and that everything will be resolved.

love,
Ange.