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Should I be Ashamed?

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Should I be Ashamed?

Postby ~KISMIC~ » Sun Jan 27, 2002 8:23 am

"Well you've admitted that you like Willow/Tara, so you've taken the first step..."
Lol, no you shouldn't feel ashamed, at least your mum/parents know which is the hardest part, imho. I mean I haven't told anyone in my family and I don't intend to because I really don't want to have to deal with their reactions (eg - 'you like a gay couple so of course you must be gay too', *rollseyes*) but really if your family knows then things can only get better.
I don't really have any great advice or help to give you as I haven't been in that situation but just know that if someone makes you feel ashamed or guilty, you are actually the better person for being accepting and not passing judgement.

*~Kristy~*

------------------
"Do you love her?"-Willow
Tara stroked a hand over
Willows cheek. "Not
like I love you," she
whispered..."Not yet."
Wonko's The Wish

~KISMIC~
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby The Next Tara Maclay » Sun Jan 27, 2002 9:34 am

Hi all,
Thank you for your support, I'm glad to find some people who can help me alot ^_^ There are alot of nice people on here, I hope that I can pull this off, I'm gonna show my mom some movies and stuff that Aly and Amber have been in to show her how good they are and that its not that bad, I'm praying it works!!!
The Next Tara Maclay
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby angelus » Sun Jan 27, 2002 10:09 am

faith is a great character(i'm always 5x5
angelus
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby WiccanBex » Sun Jan 27, 2002 10:41 am

do *you* think you should be ashamed?

because that's all that matters.

personally, i don't think that anyone should be ashamed of being a fan of two brilliantly written characters who just happen to be in love with people of the same sex.

------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site

WiccanBex
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Charlie » Sun Jan 27, 2002 12:03 pm

Honey, I’m not going to repeat a whole load of stuff that’s already been said very eloquently by a lot of people but I will say something about your relationship with your mom. I went through years of struggling with my sexuality on my own, and when I finally did come out to my parents they were wonderfully loving (they’re very strong Christians, as I am) but they have spent the years since trying hard to come to terms with it, because of their faith. We’re finally making serious headway, and I feel I’ve reached a point where my parents are my friends as well as being my mom and dad. What I’ve learned along the way is that you can disagree utterly on a point but you will never be properly listened to and heard unless you establish a grown up relationship first.

You have to be open with your mom, and be caring, gentle and loving in the way you treat her, and then you’ll be surprised at how much more open she is to listening to what you have to say. Homophobia has many roots and is often very firmly embedded, but it’s not usually a reason to get judgmental because there is always a human reason for it’s existence. Talk to your mom, listen to what she has to say, but hold firm to what you believe. Be true to yourself and stick to your guns but be as open as you can be and try and see her side of the story. If she sees that you are making that kind of effort to see her point of view, hopefully she’ll make the same kind of effort to see yours. And try and explain to her that you are your own person and that the characters you watch are not the reason you act the way you do – you’re your own unique person, and watching Buffy may be influential but Joss aint got the mind control thing worked out that well… yet! Relationships with parents are usually plagued with difficulties but that they are worth working at. Trust me, it’s worth it!

------------------
‘When she lowers her eyes she seems to hold all the beauty in the world between her eyelids; when she raises them I see only myself in her gaze.’
- Natalie Clifford Barney

Charlie
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Katharyn » Sun Jan 27, 2002 12:33 pm

Nope... nothing to be ashamed of at all. And everyone else said everything that I can think to add much, much better and sooner. Just checking in to lend my support...

Katharyn

------------------
She's my always

Katharyn
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Zahir » Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:42 pm

There are things I wish I could do for you--like changing your mother's mind about things, or giving you enough strength to easily deal with what you're going through right now.

But all I can offer is this:

As Joss said, the hardest thing about the world is living in it. Would you didn't have to taste that truth so soon and so vividly, but sometimes random chance does stuff like that. Yet here's another truth--the worst things we do to each other is because we fear. And fear is often based on misunderstanding. Methinks maybe that's where your mother is coming from. That doesn't change the wrong-ness of her opinion or the pain she's causing you. But maybe from that you can find a way to forgive her--and thus have some peace.

But also, nearly everything good about humans boils down to our compassion for each other and our loyalty to those who touch our heart. When you feel these things for Willow and Tara, you are nurturing the best within you. So no, there is no reason to be ashamed. You have plenty of cause, in fact, for PRIDE, especially if you apply these traits outside of t.v. and in your day-to-day life.

And btw, when you do that, you become more like Willow and Tara. So perhaps your choice of name is an extremely apt one...

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

Zahir
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Tara's Psychic Fairy » Sun Jan 27, 2002 2:09 pm

There's nothing I can really say that hasn't already been said, so I just wanted to give you my support and say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking Willow and Tara, I hope things work out for you. :)
Tara's Psychic Fairy
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Fuzz » Sun Jan 27, 2002 8:26 pm

That's great idea The Next Tara Maclay!
My mom is rather fine with all this ( I think...cuz when she first saw New Noon Rising she went all quiet...really strangely quiet Not yelling or anything ) But she likes the show anyway cuz she got excite too easily by those fighting demons scene

Oh and just wanna say that there's nothing wrong with W/T
I mean Willow + Tara = Love
and it's love that all that about.
And moves the world with everyone's hearts.

so how anything could be wrong with that

*Fuzz*

PS. Yeah!Dreiser.Something definately wrong with Anne Heche. And why Dr.Weaver got all the kisses like that? ( or it's just the way things are )

Fuzz
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby orion » Sun Jan 27, 2002 9:47 pm

I'm just going to add some more words of support. Families can make you crazy the best advice is to keep up your grades and go away to school as soon as possible. I know how hard it is to live with a mom that seems to disaprove of everything in your life. If you ever just need to vent about your mom I'm happy to listen, my aol screen name is Orionkitten

------------------
"Okay, thats a little blacker then I like my arts" -Willow

orion
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Pixie-Muso » Sun Jan 27, 2002 9:53 pm

There is no way you should be ashamed of being a W/T fan because someone else can't appreciate the love found in a gay relationship! I know what you're going through; my mother has basically said the same thing to me. But hey! You're not your mother!

Don't be ashamed. I kinda have other stuff to say, but can't really think of how to word it right now.

------------------
"...the hardest thing in this world is to live in it..."
~Buffy, The Gift.

Pixie-Muso
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby jitterbug » Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:09 pm

Hey,the next Tara McClay,i'm 16 and i have been/am going through a lot of the same stuff right now. I know it sucks,but remember that your mom loves you and everything she does is out of love,because she thinks it is the best thing for you,not because she wants to make you miserable. The one thing that keeps me going is my two best friends,who I know I can talk to about anything and who are very supportive. Find someone like that to talk to,and don't ever be ashamed of who you are. While I'm not exactly reknown for my sanity I am always ready to talk if you want; my e-mail is dksmd223@yahoo.com and my aol SN is DanaMuldr42. Also,don't run away,been there,done that,doesnt solve anything. I also agree with pretty much everything everybody else has said,more eloquently and intelligently than I could. Good luck!

P.S.Faith rocks!!

jitterbug
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:11 pm

I'm 37, and I still have problems with my mother. Fortunately, I'm now old enough that I can move 2000 miles away from her.

Mothers are mothers, and they always will be. When you're a teenager, it's even worse, because you're just figuring out who you are and they're terrified because they can feel their ability to "protect" (i.e. "control") you slipping away. Hang in there, though. Running away won't solve the problem. Just be true to who you are - you should never be ashamed of that.

------------------
Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

BBOvenGuy
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Anakin1218 » Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:35 pm

heck no girl you shouldn't be ashamed to watch W/T....what this about stuttering and being like Tara from your mom???? That so far out there its not even funny;take it from a fellow stuttering kitten(I've been stuttering since I was 5)that watching Tara dosen't make one stutter.

Next time your mom gets on your case about the stuttering issue,casually mention that Nicholas Brendon(aka the loverly Xander Harris) is this year's "spokesperson" for the national speech foundation and stutter's himself.

So don't feel ashamed and I hope you can keep coming to the kitten board;its a very caring and helpfull crowd around here

Blessed be.

-Sarah

------------------
"My heart doesn't stutter" -Tara

Anakin1218
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby The Next Tara Maclay » Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:10 pm

Well, Sorry I havent updated on stuff, Now my mom hates..them a lot more then ever, Now I cant even watch BTVS, Because of this, *Sighs* I tried, But I am gonna watch Buffy anyway, So HAHAHA to her! I'm going to disobey her, I will literally sneak up and watch it, Well, See ya around!
The Next Tara Maclay
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby shellybean » Wed Feb 13, 2002 1:46 am

DON'T at all be ashamed for gods sake! We all LOVE Willow and Tara here and aren't ashamed, right guys? Its completely fair for us to care and don't let your parents influence the way you feel!
shellybean
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Winka » Wed Feb 13, 2002 12:45 pm

Ok ... just said .. I am new.

This is the first thread I read and I really began to smile. ... I never heard in my country that somebody is influenced because of two lesbian TV-Charakters ... well, here in Germany are lesbians in nearly every series and soap. ... W/T ARE THE BEST!

Question: Is it harder to be a lesbian in the USA than in Germany?
Cause, I've a girlfriend (22) and a cute little daughter (2) and we don't have any problems. It's okay, when we kiss in clubs or sth. Nobody is interested in that. Men kiss other men in hetero clubs and so on ...

Ok, ... comment to this girl:
Tell your mother from me, that I am lesbian and I didn't get gay, because of Willow and Tara! I 've been gay before... I've been gay in kindergarden .. I think I had a crush on my .. uuum ... how do you call the women who look after you in kindergarden? *lol* And if you were gay, that shouldn't be a problem, cause you're the same person. I think its better for a woman to be lesbian ... look at all the men (sorry guys *lol*) ... A lot of advantage! you can't get pregnant, women are softer, women are faithful, women are more beautiful ... etc. ... etc... *heehee*

Ok, I'm happy with my life and I don't want to change it.

Hugs ...


------------------
Winka

http://www.lesbian-slayage.de.vu

Winka
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Legs » Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:38 pm

I'm beginning to see that this whole 'my parents won't let me see this show' thing, is more cultural than anything else. I read Winka's post about being a lesbian in Germany
and how in almost every german show there's a lesbian couple... Here in Brazil, when some famous soap writer tried to introduce a lesbian couple in the soap, (it was very, VERY light. They didn't even hug, but they lived together, shared the bed and they had this really speacial way of talking to each other, so there you go...) the general public had a bad reaction to it. But the funny part is, when the same author introduced a gay couple in other soap, the public had a positive reaction! And when there's an american/british or whatever show that has a lesbian couple, the same general public respond to it positively. So, I guess here, people are prepared (well, parents are never prepared but anyway) to see 2 guys involved, but they seem to never be ready to see 2 girls together. Unless it's in some foreign show because then, reality seems to be far from them. But in all cases, I never heard of parents who forbid their children to watch.

Relating to the girl's (I'm sorry, I forgot to see your UserName) problem, if talking to your mother didn't help, you could always try a different approach, like trying to make her see the beauty in these characters instead of immediately labeling them as bad examples for being lesbians and witches. I mean, make her see that even though they might seem possessed in her opinion, they're caring, inteligent, friendly... try to make her see that them being a lesbian is not the reason why you like them. I guess maybe it will help her to understand. I'm not a parent, but I don't see how some parents thinks it's ok for their kids to watch people being cut in half (and I'm not saying your mom is this kinda parent, I obviously couldn't since I don't know her), but it's still not ok for the same kid to see 2 people sharing their lives.

Needing someone to talk: legs20rj@yahoo.com

:-** & [ ]s
Legs

------------------
Stars don't die,
they just move places.

[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 13, 2002).]

Legs
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby MadeinNZ » Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:42 pm

Nothing much more to add. I agree with everybody before me.

I can't really say what to do in your circumstances - I can only tell you a couple of things that I've learnt along the way (I'm in my thirties now - old enough to be your mother!).

One thing your Mum might be worried about is that you're watching too much TV generally. I know when I was your age I watched heaps of TV and its really easy to get wrapped up in things (heck - I'm just about pushing into the red obsessive zone now with BTVS). My Mum worried that I wasn't getting out enough. Maybe she's concerned about getting some balance.

The other, and most important thing, I've learnt is that family is key. There's just something comfortable and secure about being around family. No one will ever know you longer or love you more than your family. I fought with my father all through my teenage years but I'm happy that we still keep in touch now. We're not best friends but I know that he'd be here for me in a heartbeat if I needed him. Its hard - but try and keep working at it with your Mum.

Hope this helps.

MadeinNZ
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby Cipher » Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:33 pm

I don't know if I can help at all, or if this advice might work or not, but some things have occurred to me while reading this thread and I offer them in the hopes it helps you improve your relationship with your mom (and hopefully continue watching Buffy and W/T with your mom's acceptance).

Your mom sounds a little closed-minded, and she might never accept things her beliefs tell her are "wrong". But perhaps you can open her mind a little. You might start by trying to be more mature and show your mom that you can learn from the good examples on Buffy without mimicking the bad ones. If your mom can see that you can distinguish good behavior from bad behavior on the show, she might be less concerned that it will be a bad influence on you.

Willow and Tara have had some fights recently (and one towards the end of season 5 which was their first ever), but they don't throw things when they're angry and they don't scream at each other even when they are upset and somewhat frustrated. (Willow used magick to throw things at Glory last season, but that's part of the fantasy evil-fighting side of the show and not meant as a literal example of how to resolve conflicts in real life). Perhaps you could learn from their good example and try talking about things with your mom in a mature fashion. You both probably have things to learn and you can probably help each other if you're both willing to make the effort to be reasonable.

Try talking with your mom about the show and about Willow and Tara's relationship. Don't just start listing points but set up that you want to discuss each other's feelings about the show. You want to understand her feelings, and you want her to understand yours. You need to talk with each other, not just at each other, or you'll probably both just continue being frustrated and angry with each other. Does that make sense?

For example, think about episodes that have taught you something. In season 4 Buffy slept with a guy she'd just recently met and then the next day he pretty much blew her off and had no real feelings for her, and she was quite hurt. Your mom would probably be appalled at pre-marital sex and especially when people barely know each other, but point out that Buffy's mistake teaches you something (try to be specific), so maybe you're less likely to make that mistake yourself. (Of course, it's best to use examples you've actually seen and especially lessons you really learned (though even an example of a lesson you already knew works as an example of what the show can teach you), so if you didn't see that episode find other examples.) If your mom can understand that BtVS does teach important life lessons, she might be more accepting of the show.

Also ask her what she objects to. Try to understand her point of view, and see if there's something you could point out that might soften her less-reasonable views. Maybe try to point out the flaws in her thinking by gently asking questions ("But if two people love each other, why is it wrong just because they're both women?"). If she insists on declarations like "It just is" then point out that that doesn't help you understand her views. This general approach can backfire ("Don't get smart!"--so watch your tone of voice and try to be gentle and curious; you're trying to get her to explain her feelings, and thus to think about them herself rather than just cling to an unsupported belief because she's comfortable with it). But yelling at each other is probably worse, so it's worth a try.

If the discussions go well, invite her to watch and discuss the show with you. Try to find examples of choices the characters make and why you think they were good or why they were bad (most importantly about their regular lives, but metaphorical lessons can be drawn from most of the supernatural stuff too at least if you think about it). If your mom can discuss the show with you, she can share her values and help you avoid being "improperly influenced" by it, and she can see that you take good lessons from it and that you know (perhaps with her guidance) what examples are not meant to be emulated. (They don't intend people to practice wicca or try to do magick just because it's on the show, any more than they intend people to go out and slay vampires and monsters or solve conflicts through violence. And a lot of Buffy and Spike's recent behavior is meant as an example of an unhealthy relationship, not one to go emulate.)

Of course some of her "guidance" might be less helpful, and you won't necessarily agree with her on many things. It's important that you agree to be mature and reasonable with each other and both understand that you might not agree with each other on some things. Instead of arguing over them, ask gently-probing questions to better understand (and indirectly challenge each other to back up your views with reasons and rational thinking).

But remember, it's a discussion not a debate or a contest to see who can win an argument, the point is to help both of you by better understanding each other and improving your relationship with each other. If you can also learn from each other, that's a bonus.

Cipher
 


Should I be Ashamed?

Postby shellybean » Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:22 am

I hope you realized and decided that being Willow and Tara obsessed is completely normal! at least it is here! Right??
shellybean
 

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