The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe - Willow & Tara Forever

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 Post subject: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:42 pm 
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This thread is a sounding-board for ideas
  • For people to raise early, ad-hoc or partially thought out ideas for initial comment and constructive feedback/debate.
  • Please take a moment to familiarise yourself with the Kitten content guidelines.
  • This forum is only for discussion of ideas that fall within the remit of those content guidelines. If you're not sure if your idea is suitable, please contact the moderators.
  • Start here to throw down a few notes for an idea that you want to get some feedback on. If you've got a big outline or pages of notes worked out you're probably best going straight in and starting a Developing thread.
  • Give your post a meaningful title that people can respond to and will be able to distinguish from other ideas. E.g. New Idea: Willow and Tara in African Adventure.
  • Even though your idea may not be fully thought out, do try to explain things as best you can. Think about what assumptions you're making. Give people as much to ponder as you can manage. If you are overly terse people might not be able to see your vision and fully respond to it. Try putting yourself in another reader's shoes and see if your idea description tells everything they need to know to respond.
  • Where an idea develops in detail, then start a Developing: < Working Title> thread with a summary of the debate so far and then carry on detailed idea discussion there. Debate on that idea here should then stop. Also, please edit the first post you've made in this thread and just add a note to let readers know that you no longer need any comments on your idea in this thread. You could also include a link to your Developing thread, so the reader will know to take her/his comments over to that thread.
  • If you're not sure if you should be posting here, have a look at the Beta Pens FAQ or ask the moderators.


Last edited by raspberryhat on Sun May 22, 2005 6:08 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:13 pm 
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An example Idea:

The setting: Tsavo, Kenya Home to the infamous man-eating Tsavo lions.

One of our girls is there to study the maneless lions and the other is in a near-by village working as a physician with Doctors Without Borders or another such organization.

Question: Who would be best suited to be the zoologist and who the physician?

Continuing: The story itself would be a mystery. I'm not sure which angle to take with it though. Possibly poachers? Murder in the village? Medical experiments on the villagers that our girls uncover? Lots of thoughts and possibilities here. Does anyone know of any other fics set in Africa?

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Last edited by Trom DeGrey on Thu May 05, 2005 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:13 pm 
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Now in answer to the story suggestion and very much IMHO:

I see Tara as physician because that's to do with helping people. Willow equally could fit the physician role, but I think zoology could appeal more directly to the thirst for knowledge that's very key to her character. We've seen that she's often put knowledge ahead of almost everything. While she has a big part of her that wants to help, what we've actually seen as she gets very caught up the knowledge and can lose sight of why she started learning. If she studied medicine I can see her being a researcher more than say working with patients.

So if we assign roles, I see Tara as the MD and Dr Rosenberg as the zoological specialist. I can also see Willow enjoying the whole international travel aspect of Zoology.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:31 pm 
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I think my only hesitation in making Tara the Doc instead of the zooy was that I thought the solitary nature of the zoology work would suit her more, but I like your rationale here and I think I'll go with your suggestions. Ah, now, a plot itself.... Ugh. I'm envisioning their first meeting and I think that could lead to the conflict actually. I can see Willow being injured somehow (by the poachers?) out in the savannah and being brought to the village and treated by Tara. Or perhaps her presence in the village could lead to paranoia from the bad guys and our conflict ensues from there. Still just really batting this around.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:50 pm 
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In regards to the plot, you mentioned experiments. Why not look at the sort of thing that is alleged to go on in parts of Africa in the area of drug trials?? Ever read the Constant Gardner by John Le Carre? It was banned in Kenya...Interesting themes there.

There's plenty of life realisations a person could achieve through serious illness. This does of course happen a lot. What if Willow's Wiccan faith was say lapsed and perhaps part of the the nexus here is bringing her back to her faith with a little help and guidance. There are numerous dangers in Africa.

Or fever dreams. If you like writing surrealism. Imagine an impressionistic Tara fading in and out. Ministering (!) angel etc.

I love the setting. I can feel so much depth and color there. I've always liked the idea of what W/T would be like as they grew a little older than we knew them from canon. Very interesting characters with life experiences that when they cross later in life could create wonderful relationships.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:36 pm 
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Just finished Constant Gardner. Great read! Thanks for the heads up on that one. Even if I don't use the experimentation angle, it gave me nice insight into the world of the doctor in a Third World country. As for surrealism... That's a really interesting thought and one I never would have come up with on my own. I'll have to spin that one around.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:37 pm 
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Hey :wave

1st off - I think this idea of the Beta Pens is a great idea!

And then we come to the reason why I'm very hesitantly writing this here.... I've had this idea of Willow as a Viking bouncing around in my head for the better part of maybe 3 months now. I've never written (and finished) anything before, but I just can't get this idea out of my head...unless it goes away very soon I'm almost hoping. :p

Anyhoo, the idea: The time is 799 AD. Willow is this Norse Viking. She and her best friend (since childhood) Alexander (Xander), along with other vikings are on a plundering trip to Ireland. Right now I'm leaning toward them staying in Ireland, due to some trouble in their home country. And during their stay Willow meets Tara.

Tara is originally from England, but she now lives with some family in Ireland (both her parents are most likely dead), and she might be engaged to this guy (I haven't decided yet if he's nice or not), who I plan to make the village's king's son (from what I've read, there used to be several, or some, smaller kings spread around Ireland around this time).

From this point on it might be a bit un-organized, but bare with me: Since this is an Alternate Universe, I want marrage between 2 women, or 2 men to be possible. It's because the thought of Tara becoming Willow's, or any other viking's, slave just doesn't sit right with me. So the way it's bouncing around in my mind - Willow and the other vikings come to Tara's village to plunder it; the village's king (or perhaps 'chief') negotiates a truce by giving the vikings anything they want and paying them for protection against pillaging/plundering groups of Irish outlaws. Willow wants Tara, and she does get Tara, but Tara's fiancee is not happy.

And it gets a bit lacking in details from this point. This is some of the things I'm picturing in the story (and I don't think it'll happen in this order): at some point I'm picturing kids; for a while Willow goes blind after an attack; Willow almost dies (everyone might think she did die though); and Tara is kidnapped by someone.

Oh and as to other friends; for now I think Buffy might be Tara's best friend, who lives in the village with her husband Liam. Faith might be Willow's and Xander's best friend. Or it might be the other way around - Buffy as Willow's best friend instead. I haven't quite figured out if I want Faith or Buffy as Vampire Slayers, or possibly both. Willow has some power, so she could possibly have rescued her best friend from dying during a battle. And speaking of powers - Tara is a healer, while Willow's powers might be more dark.

So is this any good? Is it really really bad? I don't think I'm cut out to be a writer of anything; I'm more a reader kinda person. And the thought of writing something, and then posting it of all things, sounds terrifying to me. So I'm not sure if this will pan out, or if I'll even post it (cos I'm too much of a chicken lol).

Liv

ETA: I've now posted a chapter of Wolves of the Sea here on Beta Pens. Any comments on it can be posted there. :)

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe. - Einstein
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves. - Rochefoucauld
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us. - R.W.Emerson
Everything is relative. - Einstein (Except for ”absolute truths”)

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Last edited by Still Waters T on Fri May 26, 2006 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 10:45 pm 
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Hey, Liv! Welcome to Beta Pens! I know it's scary, but remember that everyone who's ever posted a fic on Pens had to make a first post at some point. Most likely all the authors you read have felt that same fear. Just know that you're in good company, feeling that way.

I think your story sounds like a fine idea. I imagine it as a grand, sweeping epic adventure sort of story, with a squishy center filled with romance. It sounds lovely.

It's difficult to give advice, because it's all so subjective. I'm only offering my personal opinions and I have no idea what your strengths and weaknesses are, beyond what you've told us, so anything I say might not really apply to you at all. And you might get further opinions from others and find that there's no agreement. So please take anything I say with a grain of salt. That might be one of the most difficult aspects of using Beta Pens - sorting through contradictory opinions. But that's just part of the challenge of being a writer, so it's all good. Sometimes you have to listen to what others say, because they are right. And sometimes you have to listen to yourself, because those other people are dead wrong.

Since you say you've never written and finished something before, and this story sounds quite ambitious, you would probably be well-served to put extra energy into the planning.

It sounds like you have several specific scenes in mind, with fuzzy areas between them. I would suggest that you focus now on filling in those fuzzy areas. Your story sounds big and complex, so it would probably benefit from good planning - good outlining or snowflaking or whatever works best for you, as long as you have a clear view of the story - beginning, middle, and end - in your mind.

Some writers don't plan that way, of course, so your mileage may vary. Some writers plan meticulously before they begin writing and some fly by the seat of their pants. Personally, I think somewhere in the middle yields the best writing.

It's important that you know where you're going with the story. (Know your characters, their histories, their quirks, their issues, etc. Know your setting; be able to see it in your mind so you can describe it well. Have a good idea of what happens, why, and what are the consequences, the cause and effect of everything that happens, so your plot is cohesive.) Knowing where you're going with the story will make it so that you can be certain your story is moving in the right direction and you don't end up writing yourself into a corner.

But! It's also important that, in all that planning, you don't lose sight of the fact that some of your best ideas may arise as you are writing. And that may require some revision of your outline. It's tricky. It can be very, very tricky, knowing when to stick with your plan and when to deviate from it. Having already gotten a solid grip on the total story you want to tell, before you begin the writing, should help you make better decisions about when and why to stick to your outline and when and why to let the story go off in its own direction for a while.

I recommend that you do a few things now:

One, write up a brief character sketch for each character. Include the things most of us probably already know, like age, appearance, etc. But also include information about their personalities, their histories, what their lives are like, even minute details like their favorite foods, colors, what they dream about, etc. Definitely need to figure out what sort of powers they have. (I noticed you mentioned that you thought Willow's powers might be more dark. So I think you should explore her background in preparing to write your story. She's a warrior, so she's probably had some pretty traumatic experiences. And so has Tara, though probably of a different kind. Might be interesting conflict if Tara's parents were killed by Vikings. That would be some good angst, I think. Just a thought.) You want to have a solid idea of who all these people are and how they got where they are - what makes them tick. So writing up some character profiles for Willow, Tara, Xander, Buffy, and Faith, should help. You shouldn't assume that everyone sees the characters the same way you do.

Two, since you seem a little fuzzy on how all your characters are connected, I'd suggest that you draw up a little map or something like that, showing how they're connected. Just for your own information, so you can see it laid out clearly, how they all fit together. Who's friends with whom and for how long, etc. Maybe even write up a little brief backstory. Like, how did Willow, Xander, and Faith or Buffy meet and how did they end up together on this plundering voyage? How did Tara and Buffy or Faith meet and what have their lives been like? And I think you definitely need to decide whether or not Buffy and/or Faith are Slayers. This could be integral to your plot development. (I imagine that if, say, Buffy is a Slayer and Tara's best friend, she might be very useful in a battle between Willow and Tara's fiance. The possibilities there seem endless to me, whether Buffy and/or Faith are Slayers or not, but I think you need to know that before you start your writing.)

Three, try to plan out the major events. Like, just based on your post, I imagine something like this:

  1. Willow on plundering trip to Ireland.
  2. W/T meet, but Tara currently engaged.
  3. King's truce/deal with the Vikings.
  4. Tara's fiance and Willow fight.
  5. Tara kidnapped.
  6. Tara rescued.
  7. And they live happily ever after.


You can see how each point leads logically to the next point, so you can more easily fill in the space between them with the smaller events that connect the major events. This should also help you set up some conflict that will help move the plot forward. For example, as I mentioned before, I can easily imagine that perhaps Tara's parents were killed by Vikings, so she might be weary of these new Vikings in town at first. Or perhaps the kidnapping of Tara is precipitated by Willow's friend Buffy or Faith threatening Tara's fiance. Or maybe Tara's friend Buffy or Faith threatens Willow, thinking she is a bad, bad Viking, and someone kidnaps Tara thinking they are actually rescuing her from Willow. There's really no end to what you can do with conflict!

Lord, okay, I think I've written waaaaay too much here. Bottom line - your idea sounds awesome. It's got Willow, it's got Tara! It's got Vikings! Go for it!

I do hope you'll continue working on it and posting here about it. Don't give up! Plan carefully! Try not to get overwhelmed. Take it day-by-day. Start small - do one character sketch today, do another tomorrow, do two or three more next week. We'll all be here with our thoughts and ideas if you want to post more here about your story.

I wish you the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 1:51 am 
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:sheep Omg that was a lot! Thanks! :D I greatly appreciated everything you said, and you even gave me some ideas here. :hmm Ohh the possibilities, yep. :smug

I have been putting extra energy into already. Since I got the idea, and haven't seemed to get rid of it in 3 months I've been doing research on vikings, and their laws, way of life, beliefs, etc. And since this is supposed to happen in at least Ireland, I've been reading up on vikings and their settlements there and other places. And well, just in general as well.

When it comes to the beginning, I kinda already have one, a prologue, but I was considering chucking it out...but I think I'll just re-write it a bit more (for the 4th time lol). I started writing a tiny bit a couple months ago, and just stopped and let it stew for a bit. Anyhoo, so the beginning and middle is clear, but the end might be a bit more muddled.

Great idea about writing character sketches! :bounce Thanks for that advice. :) I already have a farely good picture of how Willow will be: as a warrior, and yes she's experienced a few horrors which would be the reasons she might be (and I'm not a 100% sure of this yet) more into the dark part of magic. Not to say that Tara hasn't experienced any badness, but she hasn't let her anger and grief eat at her. I don't know how in-depth I want to go here; might want to see where I take the characters myself when I write them. Get a feel of them I guess - see what fits. Sounds like a good idea to write out character sketches; I think I'll work on that, define them a little.

I hadn't thought of the idea that Tara's parents could have been killed by vikings. Great! I mean, badness, but great idea! :D Hmmm, do you think if I throw in a pregnancy (Tara - pregnant, but not by Willow) and a set-up marriage (W&T), it might be a nice way of adding some more angst? :glasses Hehe.

I think I want Buffy to be Tara's best friend, and she'll be the Slayer. Faith will be Willow's and Xander's best friend, who just loves to explore and is therefore on the plundering trip.

And yup, the story feels a bit overwhelming when I think of everything I'll have to write. But I take things slowly, so I'll take this one scene at a time. Thank you for all the advice. :)

Liv

ETA: I've now posted a chapter of Wolves of the Sea here on Beta Pens. Any comments on it can be posted there. :)

_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe. - Einstein
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves. - Rochefoucauld
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us. - R.W.Emerson
Everything is relative. - Einstein (Except for ”absolute truths”)

Avi made by gingerafros


Last edited by Still Waters T on Fri May 26, 2006 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:20 am 
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Liv,

Thank you for sharing this idea. I think this could lead to a very interesting story. Epic deeds in adventure across the world. Oh yes.

I definitely subscribe to the view that planning, especially for anything complex (as this could well be) is a real help, probably a necessity for most. The art seems to be in where to stop planning and start writing. It is also possible to get caught up in the planning process. I also think iteration around writing and revision of the plan is perfectly fine. As maudmac pointed out, you may have a great idea on-the-fly and want to work it in. That may require minor modifications to your plan. I certainly find that despite all my planning (and I tend to do a lot) sometimes things come to me while I am writing and they work better than something I had in my plan. I just try to go with it.

The snowflaking idea was interesting. I think if you’ve never planned before, the principle of starting high level and slowly refining the detail in each area is a good one. I often find myself feeling overwhelmed by complexity sometimes. Either by the size of the task or some complexities I’ve built up in the plot. If you take it step by simple step and don’t try to think too far ahead all the time, that may really help keep it in perspective and importantly keep it fun.

I’d also add that I think a lot of writing is simply about hard work, tenacity and believing in your idea. The spark of the idea is fundamental but then it’s about having the vision in your head to know that the end result will be worth it. I firmly believe that if you work hard enough you will always finish and however long the piece is it’ll be something you can truly know you’ve put your heart into and it’ll be worth it.

Your synopsis raises questions that make me want to read the as yet unwritten story in order I can know their answers. That has to be good I think. Definitely got my curiosity working. Some questions jump out to me as a reader, some as different possibilities you may consider in writing the story. It’s probable that not every answer needs to be elaborated in detail. The fact you’ve considered those issues may be enough. In my own efforts, I’ve found myself having to resist from answering everything in explicit detail. Sometimes it seems to be enough to imply.

I think the story of how Tara got from England to Ireland could be interesting. Back then a trip like that could have been fraught with all kinds of danger.

How did Tara become a healer? Where/how did she discover her power? Did anyone help her nurture that power? Perhaps it was related to the crossing from England? A traumatic event that exposed a power maybe.

How was magic perceived by the Vikings? How was it perceived by the English? Would it have to have been hidden? Would Willow and Tara have practiced in secret? Or one of them have had to practice in secret?

The details of the negotiated settlement could be interesting. A lot could happen leading up to that point. Could Willow have had anything to do with her leader’s clemency? I think a realistic portrayal of such an act would really help cement the story.

You raise many good questions about character relationships. Given you’ve said this is AU perhaps fleshing out more details of your character’s backgrounds will help suggest who would be more drawn to whom and in what capacity.

I definitely get the sense of an epic here. Turmoil of the world requiring heroic deeds and such. Where could Willow’s abilities have taken her I wonder? What’s her history through previous battles? Perhaps she’s learned all kinds of arts as she’s travelled.

I wonder what the extent of Tara’s ability is and how far it could take her.

If Willow’s power’s are dark in some way, what exactly does that mean, how does it effect her and how would it effect the way Tara perceives her or she perceives Tara? If they have very different outlooks on the world and on the use of power that will effect the way they see each other. Interesting possibilities for the characters and relationships there.

I think you’ve got the kernel of a cool idea here. I really can empathise with the feeling of wondering if you can be a writer of anything. Working with a beta individually or with many through this forum will help bring the story out of you and increase your writing ability. The beta process is not just about pointing out grammatical errors. It’s not about chastising over anything. It’s about helping to draw something from within you and making it as good as it can be.

I think that like anything it takes practice. I am not convinced many or any people are just able to do it. Personally I think that writing every day really helps. Doesn’t matter if it’s only a few notes, but it helps keep the idea growing and your ability developing.

By the time you’ve been around and around the beta process you will have something good. A beta will be honest and tell you if anything’s not working and help you find a way out of that problem.

I’d say just be prepared for the overall process to take some effort. Equally though, be prepared to be surprised by what you’re capable of.

One last thought is that I think it’s possible to get too close to your own work and even start to doubt its value or quality. Again your beta’s will tell you know when it’s ready and give you objective comment.

I really hope you continue to develop your thinking in this forum and take a go at the story. I know I’d look forward to reading it.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
I imagine it as a grand, sweeping epic adventure sort of story, with a squishy center filled with romance.


That so made me giggle! Liv, thanks so much for sharing this! It's wonderfully original and sounds like it would be a real treat to read. I'm just seconding what maudmac and raspberryhat have said already: PLAN, PLAN, PLAN!!!! Something that large, complex and detailed needs as much preplanning as it will writing almost. I would encourage you not to let the scope of it intimidate you. Just work a little at it everyday. Even if it's only outlining or writing a character sketch for ten minutes during the day, you'll have worked on it and be that much further with it when you can sit down and take an hour or two. Lay your foundation well and the story itself will be that much easier when it comes to actually writing it. I'm finding that out teh hard way. :happy

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:58 pm 
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hey ya'll,
ok last week the history channel did a big thing on the civil war and that got me thinking on a story idea. the problem is i could never do this idea justice cause i just don't have the time this story would need to be told. so i saw this beta thread and thought what the heck. i'm gonna put m idea up and give it out to anyone who thinks they could take it and go.
ok the actual idea:
like i said civil war. Tara is a southern bell living on a farm near the union/confederate border. her father and brother are off fighting for the rebels and her mother is already dead. Tara suports the north and is involed in the underground railroad, but because she is in the south she has to keep quite.
When the war started Xander and Willow (disguised as William) joined the union fight. Willow beucase she looks so young and doesn't shave, is aken in as a drummer boy, while Xander is regualar inifitry. I figuered Giles (still very british) could be a Union doctor and Buffy his nurse. Giles, Buffy, and Xander are the only ones to know Willow is a she and not a he.
ok for some of the plot. th Union soldiers move in to occupy Tara's town. they set up camp, quite forcifully, on Tara's farm. Not all of the Union soilders feel Africans should be free men so Tara has to both stay on the Union officers good side, not look like she deflecting in the eyes of the south, and try to continue to help escape slaves.
hmm what else. oh i figuered Faith could actully be half african-american her mother was a slave and her father i white pig (possible Tara's father?) so when Tara freed her faimlies slaves faith deicded to stay and help. Kendrea could be around too in this case. i thought maybe miss Calender could be a suporter of Tara's possible another doctor? on a Warren is of chorse a bad guy. either a Union officer who has his eyes' set on taking Tara by any means nesscaery. or a Confederate solider who's still in town, or maybe a spy in the union ranks.

well that's what got. like i said, i would really really love to see this story told, just don't have the time or skill to do it, so i hope some will take it up and go with it, it they do, then of chorse things do have to stay how i put them, change whatever you want. heck i'd even be interested in helping co-author it be i find writer blocks happen atlot lest when there's two people. but this is all i have. good luck!
~Bug

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:46 am 
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First, thanks for posting this idea. Second, Welcome to my world. LOL!!!! Just kidding! Our stories are obviously very different except for the Willow/Will concept. Pipsberg is writing an excellant civil war era story The Rosenberg Institute and tarawhipped is writing a fun piece with Willow in drag - The Legend of Green Eyed Red. The idea seems full of conflict potential and could be very compelling. If anyone wants to take up the mantle on this one, I would be very interested in talking to you about using he vs. she in different contexts with Willow/Will.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Re: Still WatersT--a further addition to the "Viking/Ireland" idea. The ending should obviously be the mating of Willow and Tara and, since Willow is a Viking Princess in this story, why not have her be the one who conquers Ireland, and who chooses to honor her beloved by naming the main Irish city after her: Tara, as we all know, became the capitol of the Irish kings!
"The harp that once thro' Tara's halls,
the soul of music shed"....Thomas Moore

Now my own idea involves an AU version of Season 6. In fact, I thought the season was actually going to go this way (given that there were rumors from the very start that Willow was going to be the "Big Bad") until JW and his minions ruined it:(.

Anyway, all is as it was up to the end of "Tabula Rasa". Then Willow, in despair over the despair over the departure of Tara, becomes more and more involved with dark magics. Hearing about the Nerd Trio, she decides to show them how powerful magic really is, and before long becomes their "Queen". It is Willow who orders them around, convincing them to commit crimes and generally wreak havoc. Of course, the Slayer tries to stop them, all the while trying in vain to convince Willow to return to the path of righteousness. Eventually Willow becomes the ruler of all the dark powers in Sunnydale. The nerds rebel, and Willow kills Warren to try and teach the others a lesson, but they flee in terror, seeking protection from the Slayer. All seems lost as Willow appears to be totally controlled by the dark forces until a coven in England tells Giles to contact the one hope they have of saving the situation: he must contact Tara at once, for there is much that he and the Scoobies still don't know about her! Giles locates Tara through Dawn (who has stayed in close contact with her), and Tara informs Giles that she knows about the situation, and it has caused her intense pain. She decides that the time has come to do something about it.
After a huge battle with the Slayer, it is Tara that walks into the ruins of the Magic Box to confront Willow. At first she is unmoved by the sight of her former lover, but Tara transforms into her True Self, the radiant Blue Tibetan Goddess of Mercy and Compassion. It is this divine being who takes Willow's pain away from her, and brings her back to the path of Goodness and Truth. Willow is then transfigured into the Divine Consort, as the pair ascend to eternal bliss in the realms of Nirvana.

OK, it's sketchy, I know. And I haven't the narrative powers to bring it off. Perhaps one of our more talented writers could do it. That is, of course, assuming anyone likes the idea in the first place**looks around sheepishly**.


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:38 am 
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To make this shorter, I’ve put your points in bold and my thoughts in normal text beneath.

Anyway, all is as it was up to the end of "Tabula Rasa".

Sounds like a good place to start. Definitely a turning point within the story.

Then Willow, in despair over the departure of Tara, becomes more and more involved with dark magics.

That would fit but of course there’s going to be a twist.

Hearing about the Nerd Trio, she decides to show them how powerful magic really is, and before long becomes their "Queen".

I’d have to check the exact timeline, but I thought Willow would know well about The Trio by that point.

Your assertion presents some questions that would have to be answered. What would Willow’s motivation be in subjugating the Trio? You could go into some interesting places in her psyche to explain/justify her taking this position. Her power could well be of a point where she wouldn’t need them so she may well play with them for other reasons.

It is Willow who orders them around, convincing them to commit crimes and generally wreak havoc.

What’s her motivation in orchestrating this? Could be to make life difficult and frustrating for Buffy as part of a long game to wear her down without Willow actually having to exert herself much. Equally she may take a more strategic approach of wanting to hide the fact of her mastery of the Trio. Double agent style she could be acting the best friend with Buffy and making her life hell behind the scenes. Leads to a lot to reveal and deal with later.

Of course, the Slayer tries to stop them, all the while trying in vain to convince Willow to return to the path of righteousness.

See my point above. Willow does not need to be up front about what she’s doing. She may choose a more surreptitious path.

Eventually Willow becomes the ruler of all the dark powers in Sunnydale.

This has to call reference to the Hellmouth itself. I would have thought. One thing I don’t think we’ve ever really done is seen right into the where the Hellmouth goes. What we saw in seven never seemed to quite be it. Not to me anyway. We’ve had monsters and all sorts coming out (and the odd demon falling in) but never really been on the journey right into it. I always imagined it was meant as a physical manifestation for the ever present dark-side of life. Anyway, point is, I can imagine Willow being drawn very close to it. Or into it. You could have an interesting allegorical story there.

The nerds rebel, and Willow kills Warren to try and teach the others a lesson, but they flee in terror, seeking protection from the Slayer.

I can absolutely imagine they’d flee to the Slayer. Well they did didn’t they?

All seems lost as Willow appears to be totally controlled by the dark forces until a coven in England tells Giles to contact the one hope they have of saving the situation: he must contact Tara at once, for there is much that he and the Scoobies still don't know about her!

I am not sure Tara would have done nothing if she’d known about the problem before Giles et al approach her.

Giles locates Tara through Dawn (who has stayed in close contact with her), and Tara informs Giles that she knows about the situation, and it has caused her intense pain.

Fair enough.

She decides that the time has come to do something about it.

To my point earlier. I am concerned that Tara would not/could not sit by and do nothing.

After a huge battle with the Slayer, it is Tara that walks into the ruins of the Magic Box to confront Willow.

Now that would be cool. Big set piece showdown.

At first she is unmoved by the sight of her former lover, but Tara transforms into her True Self, the radiant Blue Tibetan Goddess of Mercy and Compassion.

Could be a lot of back story to go into there. Would Willow suddenly realise what she’d been missing in Tara all along? If Willow was so powerful why did she not sense before? Perhaps because Tara was that much more powerful. Does raise the question of how the Goddess form is intertwined with Tara. They must be intertwined or you’re essentially having to create a new character who doesn’t have the feelings for Willow that Tara has.

It is this divine being who takes Willow's pain away from her, and brings her back to the path of Goodness and Truth.

How does she do this? This could be complex.

Willow is then transfigured into the Divine Consort, as the pair ascend to eternal bliss in the realms of Nirvana.

Divine Consort? What kind of existence were you thinking about?


OK, it's sketchy, I know. And I haven't the narrative powers to bring it off. Perhaps one of our more talented writers could do it. That is, of course, assuming anyone likes the idea in the first place**looks around sheepishly**.

Don’t underestimate yourself. If you really want to see this become real, try taking the first step. Break it down. Detail, outline, plan and outline. Take it in bite sized pieces. Try some smaller stories first if you want the practice. If you want it enough…

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:09 pm 
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First and foremost my most gracious thanks to Raspberryhat for the criticisms and suggestions. I shall endeavor to address a few of your points:

1. It is very clear from the "canonical" show that Willow's sense of self-worth is, at best, fragile. It is also a clear that a lot her positive sense-of-self was very much entwined with her relationship with Tara. The loss of this relationship along with its vital support for Willow's self-worth would be devastating. It is my idea that Willow's thinking would run something like, "So, all I am is 'magic girl' to Buffy & Co., why don't I show them just how powerful I really am". It is not a big step from this sort of thinking to becoming actually "maleficent", especially if she is using more and more dark magics (Remember Tara's remark "You're not helping people. You're fixing things to your liking, including me"). It makes perfect sense that someone who was basically the butt of everyone's abuse for so many years (I am thinking of Willow's life before meeting Buffy and later Tara) would become somewhat "drunk" with the vast amount of power that the magics impart to her.
I very much like your idea of Willow becoming a kind of evil "double agent":), seeming to remain friends with Buffy/Xander/Anya while actually making use of the Nerds (who she would, correctly, just think of as "useful idiots") as her agents. I see her becoming ruler of alll the dark forces in Sunnydale as her reputation becomes known amongst the vampires and demons that inhabit the Hellmouth. Things would come to a "crisis" when the Nerds realize that they are pawns and try to rebel.

2. Tara as Goddess -- I'm thinking of the "human" Tara as an "avatar" (in the original Hindu sense of the word) of the goddess, in much the same way as Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu in the "Mahabharata". She would not want to do anything initially so as not to reveal her "true" state, just as Krishna reveals his divine nature only before a great battle in the famous poem known as the "Bhagavad Gita" (now an important part of Hindu scripture). Likewise it is the crisis of Willow attempting to seek ultimate domination that would spur to Tara to confront Willow and reveal her divine nature. It is not so strange that a goddess who did not want to reveal her true nature beforehand could "hide" herself even from a powerful witch.

3. Bringing Willow back could be done much as "God" (as portrayed by Alanis Morrisette) brings back an erring angel at the end of Kevin Smith's film "Dogma": she need only look into Willow's eyes with her intensely compassionate gaze, causing Willow to immediately understand the evil nature of all that she has done. Willow bursts into tears and sinks to her knees before such profoundly divine forgiveness and understanding.

4. Divine Consort--I see this as a kind of "apotheosis", much as Rama and his wife becoming divine consorts at the end of the "Ramayana".

It is kind of you to think so, but I don't think I am up to bringing this life. However, if it is of interest to one of our more talented writers, perhaps something might be done with it.
Thanks again for your comments.:)


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:36 pm 
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And the million dollar question is: just how did I miss this awesome new board for over a MONTH?

Seriously, this board is way WAY awesome, and I'm just about giddy. I don't particularly have the time to write, formally beta-read for someone, or even read a full-on story right now, but the fact that this is here where I can get nosey and poke into other people's developing fic ideas makes me want to jump a little bit. But just a little.

Anyway ...

There have been four really cool story ideas so far, and I have stuff to say about three of them (WolfNightwind - definitely looks like a cool idea, but I know little to nothing about the civil war, so I'm going to stay quiet on this one). Now, I don't know how far everyone has gotten with these stories (as I've showed up a little late in the game), so, of course, feel free to disregard anything that doesn't fit with what you've got. And not necessarily because y'all have gotten past what I'm commenting on -- it's also totally fair to disregard anything I say, because I could be, y'know, chock full of the proverbial "it". :)

**Trom DeGrey, with the excellent Kenya idea. I have to respectfully disagree with both you and raspberryhat (though I respectfully and emphatically agree with you both on other points) regarding the occupations of Willow and Tara in Kenya. Firstly, I agree that, should the occupations be a zoologist and a medical doctor, that it be Willow the zoologist and Tara the medical doctor; however, I think you have a neat opportunity here to have Tara be a zoologist/veterinarian, and have the actual "people-doctor" in the area get killed or severely injured, making Tara the person with the most medical knowledge in the area and throwing her into an unfamiliar situation.

This does, however, beg the question of what Willow is going to be. I would suggest a Civil Engineer. This is the part to really take with a grain of salt, as I tend to love Scientific-Egghead-Willow more than is healthy, considering she's, y'know, fictional. That said, she'd be in Kenya doing Civil Engineer-y things. For more information on that, go here: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos030.htm This also opens up an opportunity for some tension and/or conversation regarding technology vs. nature and the balance of humanity's needs against the open untouched wilderness (not that Tara, y'know, would be against villagers getting water and all, but you could have Willow go overboard in her own speciall "damn the torpedos" kind of way, or have Tara be impressed with Willow's consideration for the surroundings).

**Still Waters T: This is exciting - if there's been a Viking story, I haven't seen it. Though, I haven't actually been reading much lately, so if there were a Viking story already, it's not suprising I haven't seen it. Still - this is cool.

So, the main quesiton that pops into my head, is how the heck is Willow a Viking Warrior? That is in no way, shape, or form a criticism, because I think it's really neat to put one or both of the girls into a situation that, on the surface, makes you wonder how it happened. In the specific case of Willow as a Viking warrior, what with being tiny, and in the show portrayed as someone who doesn't particularly have an aptitude with the violence, this is a really neat opportunity. Personally, I've always found Viking mythology to be very fascinating (I do, in fact, have a tattoo of a viking rune on my body). While the Willow we know isn't big on the hitting things, the Viking Willow could have been raised as a warrior.

I don't know offhand whether the Vikings had the occasional woman warrior crop up, but their mythology is chock full of them - and, as a sidenote, the Irish were way definitely cool with the whole woman warrior deal. But, even in a society that's totally cool with it, I would imagine it tends to be rare. What with the whole "not attacking the Irish town" (which would be uncharacteristic), making off with a maiden from said town, and marrying said maiden to a woman warrior, perhaps a prophecy of some kind would be in order? Like Willow's backstory involves a seer predicting that Willow's life, if lived as a warrior, will have some kind of vague but important impact on the Vikings.

Again, I really dig this idea - and I also want to mention that maudmac's and rapsberryhat's comments are excellent, and I totally agree with them.

**Hemiola: you've mentioned you weren't actually planning on writing this, but I have two cents to contribute to the idea. Firstly, all of raspberryhat's questions regarding motivation are excellent ones.

Secondly, the idea of a Big Bad Willow is one that I find compelling on several levels. I have a few thoughts on Willow's character that I would like to share. I think that much of Willow's problems in Season 6 arose from her inability to acknowledge that there are some things she can't control, and that there are some things she shouldn't control. She is not, however, the least bit evil.

Willow's journey into Big Bad-ness would have to be a relatively slow one, imo, and it would have to involve her doing the wrong things for all the right reasons. I like the idea of her taking over the trio, but I would see her more likely redirecting their efforts into fighting the badness, feeling bitter about Buffy's lack of interest in fulfilling her Slayer Duties at this point, and then taking it all way too far. Willow is, at her root, a problem-solver. It's what makes her analytical mind so formidable, and makes her so very willing to "fight the good fight" with the rest of the Scoobies.

Some examples of "taking it too far": Problem: Tara is mad at her. Solution: make her forget the argument. Problem - Buffy is the Slayer, but has no money to pay for her home. Possible Solution - take the money the trio steals and pay off Buffy's house. Problem - Buffy is only half-heartedly patrolling. Solution - take over a group of amoral nerds and threaten/blackmail/mind-control them into picking up Buffy's slack. Problem - Spike is creeping everyone out. Solution - dust him. Problem - despite Buffy's half-hearted stakings and the trio's efforts, the "mysterious deaths" in Sunnydale have still not stopped. Solution - institute a magical curfew that just makes everyone stay inside after dark. Problem - the magical curfew means that nighttimes belongs solely to the vampires and other assorted demons who proceed to trash the place every night. Solution - control the demons through magic. Problem - not enough magic to control all the demons. Solution - kill Rack.

And so on. The thing with Willow going bad, is that she tends to believe that the ends justify the means. Even in the season-that-didn't-happen (6), in the episodes that didn't happen (the one's after that thing that REALLY didn't happen), Willow didn't want to destroy the world: she could suddenly feel all the pain and suffering in the world, and she wanted to end THAT. So, her goal was not bad ... her goal was to end all pain and suffering. It's just that the only way she could do that was to destroy the entire world, and that's bad. I think Big Bad Willow works better if her ends stay good, but her means get totally and completely out of hand.

And I'm done.

Bye.

-Sass


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:21 am 
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Hey :) I just wanted to reply to the advise I've gotten, which I really appreciate. I haven't had the chance to write much the last month - cramming for an exam, family visiting, grandma ending up in a hospital etc., some work, and then computer problems have kept me rather occupide - but what I have written already I've tried to improve on several times now, so I guess that's something at least. I'm thinking I'll want to finish writing it all and have it beta-read before I post it.

raspberryhat: I like planning things ahead too, so I have. I've done my share of research before I started writing anything. And I still research while writing (I've written little random scenes whenever I've had an idea of something, so I won't forget it later). I want this as accurate as I can get it; though I find myself wondering why I had to come up with a fic situated over 1000 years ago; I couldn't have come up with something from nowish?! :p Must be a glutton for punishment, or something or other along those lines.

I know what I want in the story, and what I want from the story...did that make sense? :hmm Before I wrote down my idea here, I didn't really realize how complex this story could become - eep. The real challenge about writing this would be the historical details - having it as accurate to those times as I can, although I'll be changing a few historical facts obviously; and writing the characters. I've been working on some character sketches, so that's coming along fine.

Hehe I got your curiosity working? Yay for me. :D I really hope I'll be able to deliver - make the story interesting.

I plan on making the story start in Ireland. The first chapter will either start when Tara and Willow meet, or it will be a Viking raid on a monastery where Willow's involved.

How Tara found her healing abilities...I hadn't really thought of writing how she got them, but now that you mentioned it, maybe I'll write something about it. I'm leaning toward her finding her healing abilities not through anything traumatizing to her, but something else. The village, being Christian, doesn't like her healing poeple, so she keeps it mostly secret I'm thinking. Willow, on the other hand, can use any powers she has in the open, but she probably hides most of them to have an upper hand on anyone wishing her harm.

The way I'm picturing Willow, she has a bit of the BtVS show's VampWillow personality to her, just a bit at the very least. Since she's a warrior during those times, and not raised Christian nor Wiccan, she doesn't view it as bad to take human lives during plunderings and battles. Back then the world could be pretty brutal, so she has to be tough to survive, and to survive as a Viking. In her younger teens something bad happened to her and her mom, which led her to a darker place. I'll see how much I write about that in detail though. She's well travelled, being a Viking and all, so she's bound to have met a few interesting people on the way. And I'll see if I can't whip up a few stories from her Viking travels.

I agree on the possibility of getting too close to the story at times, so I like to write for a while, and then let it rest fr a while and look over it later, and improve on anything I don't like, and then I repeat the process. And hopefully I'll find a beta at some point. Thanks for all the advise and suggestions. :peace

Trom DeGrey: Yep :) I've done plenty of planning, and research. And if there's things I'm still wondering about when it comes to something in the story (which will happen all the time throughout the story I'm thinking lol) I just do more research. I do like to just write away, just go with the writing flow of it sometimes, and then check afterwards to see if I can write whatever I wrote (historical facts and so on). I took your advise and have written little pieces of scenes and character sketches for a few minutes every now and then.So thanks for the advise. :)

And since I'm here and writing away; I really like the idea you have of Willow and Tara in Africa! :D The only fic I know of that have both Willow and Tara in Africa would be watson's The Amazing Kitten Race, but that's just for a part of the fic. If you plan on writing it, I really look forward to reading it! :bounce

Hemiola: Great ideas :) but unfortunately it doesn't really fit in with what I have planned on writing. Willow isn't a Viking princess due to the fact that she's the only daughter of a Viking who is chief of a village on the west coast of Norway. Norway had kings at that time (still do btw), and as far as I remember, the Viking chiefs of the districts around the country answered to him.

And the 2nd problem is that there might be problems between Willow and Tara. Their marriage will be arranged so there's no love lost between them in the beginning, but they'll fall for each other eventually. I appreciate the suggestions though.

Sassette: I think I've read a Viking story, but it was a short one-piece where Tara was a Viking, and Willow was a Valkyrie. It was during a battle, and Tara died in it. It was really short, but good. Hehe yup Willow is definitely tiny, but she's fast and she can easily have the upper hand in a fight. And if needed she always has the magics.

Some things happened in Willow's early teens. And it led her to a darker period in her life, which again led to her acompanying (sp) her dad and all the Vikings in her village on their travels. And she does live during a rather violent period of time; so that and her personal experiences in life have helped define who she is now.

I find Viking mythology pretty fascinating myself. :D And if you don't mind me asking; which Viking rune tattoo do you have? I'm just curious.

There's an Icelandic Viking law which states that if a woman dresses in men’s clothing, or cuts her hair like a man, or carries weapons to be different from others, then the punishment is limited lawlessness - so I kinda doubt that there were any female Vikings...but who knows really.

I hadn't thought of any prophecies in the story, but I'll think about it :D I'm just in the beginning stages of the writing still. I like your thoughts on it, thanks. :)

I love any and all advise I've gotten; it's really helped me. Thank you so so much everyone! :) And I'll do my best on this fic.

Liv

ETA: I've now posted a chapter of Wolves of the Sea here on Beta Pens. Any comments on it can be posted there. :)

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe. - Einstein
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves. - Rochefoucauld
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us. - R.W.Emerson
Everything is relative. - Einstein (Except for ”absolute truths”)

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Last edited by Still Waters T on Fri May 26, 2006 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:56 pm 
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It's eihwaz.

Something bad happening totally works for me as a reader as an impetus for Willow going the warrior route - and I can totally buy that she's a >good< warrior because she's small and quick (and, I would presume, worked really damn hard at it - one thing Willow doesn't lack is focus :) ). It would be a different fighting style from the usual Viking hack and slash, but I definitely see it working.

The reason I brought up the prophecy was basically as a way to explain the Vikings acceptance of Willow as a warrior - but then again (and I love this) you have said this was going to be 1000 years ago, but not (like, two women getting married is not a big deal). Historical accuracy is all well and good, but really - it's fiction. This means you're allowed to just make stuff up :) That said, I do applaud your intention to make it as historically accurate as possible.

I also really dig that you're planning on going the "arranged marriage" route, where Willow and Tara don't even necessarily >like< each other, let alone are madly in love. You've even got ample opportunity for a great big language barrier there (and, btw, I will be mightily impressed if you manage to throw some old norse in there - because I wouldn't try it, myself - I'd just throw in a note up top that says something like "dialogue in italics means the character is speaking old norse" :) ).

And lastly (though I probably could have lumped this in with the historical accuracy bit), I love Willow using magic - you could have just kinda' gone "eh, she's a warrior - doesn't need to happen." I like that you didn't.

Heh - this just had me digging around in my garage looking for a book. I went through this writing kick way back in junior high school, where I was writing fantasy stories, so I ended up with a lot of books on magic as a resource. I just found one I had stashed away; It's a book called 'Norse Magic' by D.J. Conway (part of Llewllyn's World Magic Series) and it's got a lot of really neat stuff in it. It goes over some of the myths, has a complete listing of deities and their associations, and has a section on history, religion, dress and ornamentation of the vikings. I have no idea if it's possible to get a copy of this book (or, perhaps, for all I know, you already have one :) ). However, should you see it somewhere, it's at least worth flipping through, as it not only has the magic bits, but it puts it into context by discussing the culture. There is also, according to the title pages, a book by DJ Conway in the same series called 'Celtic Magic', and while I don't have that one, I'd imagine it's just as good.

-Sass


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:00 pm 
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Sassette: Ooh more thoughts on my story. :D Coolness!

Yep, something bad happened to her and her mom, but I don't know if I want to say much of what happened just yet. And then there might have been some other bad elements as well, which will explain how she got into the magics. I hadn't thought of Norse magics until you said it just now, but hmm I'll see what I can find on it, and go from there.

To be exact I plan on this happening in 799 AD (but if something in the story clashes with the time period I could very well change it to a few years later), so 1200 years ago to be more presise (sp). Hehe Anya was about 1120 years old on the show wasn't she? She might be in the story...or not, depends on how the story developes.

I do plan on making some things up, like Willow and Tara actually marrying, and the fact that in real life Willow the Viking would be lawless among other things.

On the topic of arranged marriage: Willow will like and want Tara - she just doesn't particularly want to get married...ever. And Tara, who's parents might have been murdered by Vikings (years ago), might have a few issues with being married to a Viking. I'm just thinking ahead here, I haven't written more than 1.5 chapters, a few character sketches, and some random scenes.

When it comes to the Old Norse - the word "gulp" comes to mind. I had thought of doing the
Quote:
"dialogue in italics means the character is speaking old norse"
:lol For the most part I'll probably write it like that, but I can always try, when it's in Tara's POV, to have her overhear Old Norse. My aunt may know some Old Norse; she's a Norwegian teacher at a senior high school. I'll ask her if she can translate something if I have trouble doing it myself. Cos Old Norse is very different from modern day Norwegian...but I can understand some of it if it's written. It's a bit like understanding (or not understanding) Old English...but from my point of view Old Norse is harder to understand. I'll see what I can do though. :)

I don't have that book, but I do have several books about Vikings and their culture, travels, clothes, etc. I've read through some of them. It's pretty cool actually. I should probably read up on some of the gods/goddesses though; I've forgotten a lot. I know stuff about them in general (my bedtime stories when I was little were about them), it's just the details on them. Might be good to know what each one stands for. :p

Thanks for your thoughts on this - it really helps me think better, and develope the story.

Liv

ETA: I've now posted a chapter of Wolves of the Sea here on Beta Pens. Any comments on it can be posted there. :)

_________________
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe. - Einstein
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves. - Rochefoucauld
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us. - R.W.Emerson
Everything is relative. - Einstein (Except for ”absolute truths”)

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:49 am 
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Norse mythology...hmmm...may the wisdom of Odin, the strength of Thor, and the cleverness of Loki aide you in writing this tale. :-D

Old Norse--isn't the modern Icelandic language supposed to very similar to Old Norse??


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:36 pm 
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Hemiola:
Quote:
may the wisdom of Odin, the strength of Thor, and the cleverness of Loki aide you in writing this tale

lol :lol thanks, I probably need it. :hmm Though I think I'll want to stay clear of cleverness of the Loki kind - his cleverness tends to get him into trouble. :laugh (I think he did something to the gods one time, which caused them to do some vengeance on him - making Loki swallow a whole lot of snake poison.) Sooo I think I'll just settle for plain cleverness. :p

Yep, I think Icelandic is very similar to Old Norse from what I've heard and read. But you should probably ask someone Icelandic about that, since I don't speak the language.

Liv

ETA: I've now posted a chapter of Wolves of the Sea here on Beta Pens. Any comments on it can be posted there. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:55 pm 
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1. Blessed Wannabe

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Sassette wrote:
Secondly, the idea of a Big Bad Willow is one that I find compelling on several levels. I have a few thoughts on Willow's character that I would like to share. I think that much of Willow's problems in Season 6 arose from her inability to acknowledge that there are some things she can't control, and that there are some things she shouldn't control. She is not, however, the least bit evil.

Willow's journey into Big Bad-ness would have to be a relatively slow one, imo, and it would have to involve her doing the wrong things for all the right reasons.


I think you've expressed the core of how to make Willow as the Big Bad work well. I just want to add a few details.

Quote:
Some examples of "taking it too far": Problem: Tara is mad at her. Solution: make her forget the argument.


I never thought this was in character, unless there's something very big behind the argument (more so than in s6, which only was believable on the basis of the magic addiction being behind the argument.)

Quote:
Problem - Buffy is the Slayer, but has no money to pay for her home. Possible Solution - take the money the trio steals and pay off Buffy's house.


Tha'ts a good one.

Quote:
Problem - Buffy is only half-heartedly patrolling. Solution - take over a group of amoral nerds and threaten/blackmail/mind-control them into picking up Buffy's slack.


As a solution to both of these problems in one, how about the "Superstar" spell? It would give Willow the power to replace the Slayer and the fame to not have to worry about money. Willow would of course be very careful to lock up the demon of the spell, which given time to be explored in the story might turn out to be tied to Willow in a manner like the Picture of Dorian Gray or the dark Ged in A Wizard of Earthsea.


Last edited by dmw on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:44 pm 
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3. Flaming O
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Howdy Kittens! I just thought I'd post this idea here...don't know if it's already been done, but it hit me upside the head like a sack of wet bricks. I am doing the November novel dash, and came up with a story of our gang (the whole Summers family including Hank, Willow, Tara, Faith, Xander, Frank from Angel, Giles, Ethan, Spike, and Wesley with a brief past cameo by Miss Calendar) The main characters are Buffy, Faith, Tara, Willow. The others make appearances.

The idea is this. It's WWII and our gals have enlisted in WACs except for Tara who is a nurse aboard a hospital ship.

Anyone who can give feedback on this has my utmost appreciation!

Thanks, toodles, take care!

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:22 am 
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14. Lesbo Street Cred
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histchic wrote:
I am doing the November novel dash

Are you doing nanowrimo? If so, please head over to the nano thread, there's a bunch of us who are also doing it, we can post word counts and encouraging words to each other. Would love to add another crazy person to our mix.

Nice group of characters you have there in your idea. The WW2 setting is ideal for romances because relationships during times of war are always different (more intense? fewer opportunity for overanalysis b/c you could be dead tomorrow?). If Tara is a nurse on a hospital ship does it mean one of the soldiers (Willow?) is injured and needs mucho TLC?
[br]

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 pm 
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OOoo, Ooooo, I can just see it now, histchic...

It's June, 1944, and the D-Day invasion is underway. A hospital ship is stationed in the channel, where we find:

Tara =a nurse, beloved by all who encounter her ('natch;-) )
Willow =a military engineer who was checking on the performance of an artillery piece she helped design, but was wounded in action while trying it out
Buffy =another nurse
Xander =a wounded soldier who was working with Willow
Joyce =chief of the nurses
Hank =an American doctor
Riley =a super macho soldier, checking on his wounded personnel (including Xander above;-) )
Giles =a British doctor working on the ship
Ethan =possibly a wounded British soldier

That's just off the top of my head. Not sure what to do with Angel and Spike--would they still be vamps in this AU??

What do you think? :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:59 pm 
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watson, a fellow nano-er! Awesome! Actually, i thought about having willow as wounded soldier...but it seemed a little too easy, because it's been done so many times yknow?

Hemiola, this is non Hellmouthy fic....can't think of what its called...but Im pretty sure the Germans were evil enough. Maybe I could make Rack Hitler?

Actually....it starts a little before the war....the girls are all in college....Hadnt even thought of cpt. cardboard :clap but heres who i have so far

Tara--art student at NYU(where she meets Joyce who teaches art), then enlists in nurse corps in '41 after graduation before PH
Willow--student at Radcliffe, goes into Enigma corps
Buffy--Hank and Joyce's daughter(yes Hank is in this one), not sure where to put her
Dawn--Hank and Joyce's younger daughter
Faith--Mayor Wilkins daughter, friends with Willow, Allied spy in France
Giles--Old British Intelligence Officer, takes in Wesley as a renter during Depression
Xander--doctor aboard Tara's ship
Fred(from Angel)--Xander's friend from med school
Spike--Faith's contact in France
Ethan--Eeeeeviiiiiiillll German spy in France

oh and Tara's family is good but her mom is dead and joyce doesnt die. and giles and miss calendar were married but she died of typhoid. did they have typhoid in england in 1930's? i guess my biggest hole (besides my mouth obviously) is where to put buffy....id love to put her in the field as a sniper or Army Ranger or Airborne or something like that....but i dunno.

As always, any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a bunch. Toodles, take care.

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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:15 am 
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Hi histchic!**waves** Obviously, your characterizations are better than mine. :-D

Anyway, a few comments--

1. No typhoid in England, but people could still die of infections or influenza (no fancy antibiotics or anti-virals in those days!)

2. Buffy-a woman would never be in a combat position in those days; however, if you want to make her something really exotic, make her a member of the W.A.S.P.s (=Women's Air Service Pilots), who ferried planes to different locations

3. Dawn-lots of work for teenagers engaged in rubber drives, metal drives (collecting tin cans and such); when she's older she could become a blackout enforcer.

4. Enigma was entirely a British operation, so if Willow is to remain an American, she could be in the CIC (=Counter Intelligence Corp, the predecessor of the CIA).

5. Tara needs to enlist in 1942 (the U.S. didn't enter the war until December '41;) ).

Hope these are helpful. :-D

BTW, can we get any progress reports on some of the other stories in this thread? Has anyone starting writing and/or posting yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Initial Ideas
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:19 pm 
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Heya. After reading a lot of W/T Fanfic, I've decided to jump in and start writing some of my own.

For my first series, I was thinking about taking certain songs (I listen to the radio a lot, and found that a lot of songs I listen to remind me of W/T) and use them as the basis for writing either original W/T action or action from W/T scenes from Buffy.

Anyone else like this idea?

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 Post subject: New Idea: Parody of a Souled Vampire Willow
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:55 pm 
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Ok, here we go:

Today I was chatting with a friend and we got into discussing how lame the drama of souled vampires was. We were mainly focusing on Angel and Spike and I got talking about how it would be much better if, instead of the whole oh-my-god-what-have-I-done angst, they focused on the soul-demon contrast. I mean, years of killing and maiming kinda must have some lasting effect besides the angst. Then I got this idea:

Since the whole Vamp Willow getting her soul back thing is pretty washed up, I decided to change it a little. It's like this

- vampires don't lose their souls when they turned, it just gets repressed by the demon. (maybe Willow could be the first vamp to find that out?).

- So Vamp Willow gets in the way of a 'purifying' spell (I'm not sure how that's going to work, maybe Tara doing the spell thus Willow blaming the whole thing on her - this could lead to her trying revenge or something...)

- the spell purges some of her demon out. So the soul and the demon were in balance - so she gets influenced by both. Kinda like having the proverbial angel and devil on the shoulders saying what you should or shouldn't do.

I was thinking of focusing more on the hilarity of the whole thing... Getting a usually dark theme and making it light and fun? I don't know if I can pull it off. So I would like some ideas, suggestions, please?

Maybe I should get a beta to help me with this one?

See ya!
eletricblu


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