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New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

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New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:42 am

Okay, I've stayed up way too late tonight, but I wanted to get this done. Those of you who have seen the first version of this essay will note that once again I've made drastic changes. One of these days I'll get to do my treatise on Joss Whedon's spirituality, but I decided that this isn't the time.



Here ya go... see what you think...








People Are Talking...



A look at some recent quotes from Mutant Enemy



By Robert A. Black





Hello. Yes, it's me again.



When I finished the last of my four essays on the death of Tara, I had a feeling I wasn't quite finished talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. There was still some ground left for me to cover. And so I've been following the interviews Joss Whedon and others on the staff at Mutant Enemy have been giving. I've followed the comments people have been making about the first few episodes of the three Mutant Enemy shows. I've been following the lower-than-expected ratings that two of those shows have been receiving so far. However, I hadn't really found enough for me to talk about in all of that. Until now.



In the past week there's been a flurry of new public statements coming from the various writers at Mutant Enemy. It gives us an interesting look at what they're thinking - or at what they'd like us to believe they're thinking, anyway.



Throwing around the "H" word



Did you know that I'm a homophobe? Let me tell you, it was news to me. Who would have guessed that the many thousands of words I've written decrying the death of Tara had the dark specter of homophobia lurking at their roots? It boggles the mind.



And yet that's what Buffy writer Drew Greenberg would have me believe. Here's his reasoning, as posted on the Bronze Beta recently:











"In characterizing Tara's death as yet another in the string of clichéd lesbian deaths, you indicate that you do not see Tara as anything but a lesbian, you do not see her as the unique character she was, but rather just as a woman who had sex with women, and, in doing so, you reveal your own homophobia, your own prejudice and, more than anything else, your own lack of understanding of what we did with that character."




What are we to make of this? My first thought is that Mr. Greenberg is playing a polysyllabic version of "I know you are, but what am I?" You're familiar with the game, aren't you? One child calls another a nasty name, and the other child responds with, "I know you are, but what am I?" My brother and sister and I thought it was great fun - 25 or 30 years ago. We've outgrown it since then.



Of course, as I remember the rules, you can only say "I know you are, but what am I?" after you've actually been called a name. Mr. Greenberg is calling those who criticize Tara's death homophobes, but nobody that I know of called him a homophobe first. In fact, I've spent large portions of all my essays very specifically pointing out that I didn't think anyone at Mutant Enemy was homophobic. Other writers have done the same. If Mutant Enemy wants to perpetuate the false claim that they're being accused of homophobia, it can only be because they don't want to talk about the real issues.



But let's backtrack a minute and look at what else Mr. Greenberg had to say. He made some interesting comments about "the lesbian cliché," a topic I've brought up before and others have explored in great depth.











"Presentations of lesbians in film and television have historically presented these women as troubled, twisted and desperate. They were not accepted by society, and the only appropriate ending for them was either to be killed or to commit suicide, thus denying these characters any chance at happiness and, also, providing for the audience a rather clean solution to an embarrassing problem -- how to get rid of the lesbian. In the character of Tara, we carefully constructed a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet. We wanted you to love her so that when we took her away, the audience would feel her absence as something painful, just as Willow did, and absolutely NOT as a relief, as the cliché holds. The character was, in my opinion, in stark contrast to and the exact opposite of the old lesbian cliché."




That may sound learned and impressive, but let's take a close look. Note that Mr. Greenberg says that Tara was the opposite of the old lesbian cliché. The problem with his argument is that times have changed, and the way lesbians are portrayed in Hollywood has changed - in all ways but one. Consider the following relatively recent examples:





  • 1992 - In the Northern Exposure episode, "Cicely," the lesbian characters Cicely and Rosalyn were held up as the paragons of virtue and praised as the heroines who had turned the town of Cicely, Alaska, into "the Paris of the North." And yet that didn't stop the show from killing Cicely and telling us that Rosalyn spent the rest of her life in loneliness.




  • 1995 - In the Babylon 5 episode "Divided Loyalties," Talia Winters, an important, respected and well-liked character, suffered a "death of personality" the day after a night of lesbian sex with Susan Ivanova. We later find out that her life ended on a PsiCorps dissection table.




  • 1997 - In the NYPD Blue episode "Three Girls and a Baby," recurring lesbian character Abby Sullivan and her life-partner Kathy are celebrating the news of Abby's pregnancy when Abby's ex-lover arrives on the scene and shoots them both. Both Abby and Kathy are good women, and are well-liked. The sperm that impregnated Abby even came from a regular character on the show. Yet at the end of the episode, Kathy is dead and Abby is left bereaved. The final scorecard reads one lesbian dead, one lesbian evil and one lesbian alone - a result some viewers have dubbed "the lesbian cliché trifecta."






None of these cases fit what Mr. Greenberg defines as "the lesbian cliché," and neither does the death of Tara. But they all have one thing in common with the cases Mr. Greenberg has in mind - they all feature dead characters who were involved in lesbian relationships.



What we're looking at here reminds me of the road African-Americans have traveled in Hollywood. At first, the only African-American characters to appear in the movies were servants waiting on white people. Many years later, African-American characters began appearing in war movies and horror movies working side-by-side with white characters, seemingly as equals - but whenever the action heated up, the African-American characters were always the ones to be killed off. The unequal treatment of African-American characters hadn't gone away - the method of unequal treatment had simply changed. The old cliché had been replaced by a new one. And so it is with lesbians today.



Even if you don't believe that a "lesbian cliché" exists, a simple look at the three examples I've cited tells you that Mutant Enemy was hardly being original when they decided to make a lesbian character sympathetic and then kill her. It's something that's been done repeatedly for at least the past ten years. You may not think of it as a "lesbian cliché," but it's still a cliché.



"Individuals, not lesbians" revisited



Let's take another look at Mr. Greenberg's post, and examine the pretzel-logic that accuses people who wish Tara was alive of being homophobic. It's rooted in the nonsensical claim that has been Mutant Enemy's first line of defense for several months now - the claim that they "treated Willow and Tara as individuals, not as lesbians."



What exactly does that mean? Isn't it possible to be both an individual and a lesbian? Does one give up being an individual by becoming a lesbian? If so, then someone had better warn Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'Donnell, because I don't think they knew that before they came out.



Even if we could make sense of this argument, what good does it do? Tara is still dead. Imagine for a moment that there was some kind of afterlife for fictional characters, and that we could peer into it and find Tara there. Would she be resting any more comfortably because she had been killed by writers who were treating her as an "individual?" Perhaps she would be saying to herself, "Gee, I've got it much better than all these other dead lesbians up here. The writers who killed them off weren't nearly as enlightened." Somehow, I doubt it.



And what of the thousands of young people worldwide who are struggling with their own sexuality and had looked up to Tara as an example of what they could have for themselves? The fact that Tara was a lesbian as well as an individual gave them hope for their own futures. Perhaps Mr. Greenberg should go explain to them just how much better it is for Tara to be a dead individual than a live lesbian. If they don't agree with him, then maybe he can call all of them homophobes, too.



The fury over Fury



Meanwhile, there's been more trouble for Mutant Enemy elsewhere on the internet. Not long ago, a new Q&A column appeared at David Fury's official fan website, DavidFury.net. It created such a furor among its readers that it was pulled from the site just two days later. A revised version has appeared since then, with "context" added to explain some of Mr. Fury's remarks. Here is a small sample from the original column:













[Allyson, the interviewer]: The Bathroom scene in Seeing Red. "Attempted rape" or "the bitch got what she deserved?" Bonus points for not mentioning what a completely loaded question this is.



Fury: Can't both be true?



I mean... Rape! Definitely rape!




A: Given that there's been so much backlash in the fandom about the tone of Season Six, how come you writer types still give us the love?



Fury: Uh... what makes you think we still do?



I mean... Rape! Rape rape rape! Plain and simple. (Stop looking at me like that.)





In the added context section, Allyson describes the long-running feud that Mr. Fury has had with some of Buffy's fans, a feud that exploded in the wake of Spike's attempt to rape Buffy in the episode "Seeing Red" - coincidentally, the same episode in which Tara was killed.



Allyson explains:











"For the next five months, some fans of the character Spike, denied that he tried to rape her. Not ALL fans of the character, but enough very vocal fans to keep a Summer-long debate going. I saw posts at the UPN posting board that 'Buffy was a bitch, she deserved it,' hence the phrasing of my question. I saw posts that 'Buffy liked rough sex, so how was Spike supposed to know?' The characters had a sexual relation prior to rape, that was drenched in mutual abuse and violence. It was depicted as dark and frightening, yet some fans saw romance and love."




Regardless of whether or not Mr. Fury's latest remarks can be considered offensive, the fact remains that they wouldn't have been necessary if the Buffy/Spike storyline hadn't been filled with such mixed messages about love, sex, right and wrong.



Note that I'm not saying writers shouldn't tell stories about bad men trying to become good for the sake of the women they love. I've seen the same basic plot done quite successfully on another TV show currently on the air. (I think some people would be mortified if I revealed which show I'm referring to, so I'll just let you guess for yourselves.) It's one thing to fill a story with gray areas and characters who dwell in them. It's quite another thing to confuse the issue so much that characters who commit a crime as violent as rape are defended or even cheered, or where one person can see something "dark and frightening" while another person finds "romance and love" in the very same scene.



The issue over issues



If Mutant Enemy is having trouble keeping the issues straight in their storylines, perhaps it's because they can't seem to agree on whether or not their storylines have any issues. You may recall that over the summer Joss Whedon had this to say to E!Online's Wanda:











"I never court controversy. I don't really care about issues. I didn't care about the one I introduced with Tara, and I didn't care about the one when I killed her."




But just a few weeks later, Joss had this to say when talking to the New York Times about Firefly:











Whedon finds [genre fiction] uniquely forceful: using its vivid strokes, you can be speculative, philosophical -- and create stories that are not merely true to life but are metaphors for a deeper level of human experience. "It's better to be a spy in the house of love, you know?" he jokes. "If I made 'Buffy the Lesbian Separatist,' a series of lectures on PBS on why there should be feminism, no one would be coming to the party, and it would be boring. The idea of changing culture is important to me, and it can only be done in a popular medium."




So which is it? If Joss thinks the idea of changing culture is important, then how can he say he doesn't care about issues? And if he doesn't care about issues, how can the idea of changing culture be important to him? Has he invented some new way of changing culture that doesn't involve dealing with issues? Now that would be quite a trick.



Marti Noxon has also contradicted Joss's claim that he doesn't care about issues. In an interview with Sci Fi Magazine, she had this to say about Buffy's sixth season:











"I think in some way last year, there was a little less metaphor and a little more straight-ahead drama. And that may be why people were reacting more to issues, as opposed to the emotion of what was going on. Because we were being a little more forward about, 'Okay, this is about a gay relationship.' Or 'This is a metaphor for alcoholism that's pretty bald.' We go there because that's the stuff of life and that's really what the show's about most of the time."




Then again, Ms. Noxon is the person many viewers credit - or blame - for the content and tone of the sixth season. Could we then say that the heavier emphasis on issues was her doing, and not Joss's? Not according to what she told the New York Times:











"People ... blame me for the darkness of last season's shows, and those story lines were created by Joss a year earlier. This show is a slow-turning ship. But suddenly, I'm the Queen of Darkness on the Net!"




The assertion that Joss was responsible for the storylines of the sixth season is reinforced by a recent post from Steven DeKnight at the Bronze Beta. In the midst of a long-overdue apology for his offensive and hurtful performance at The Succubus Club last May, he said this about the decision to kill Tara:











"I still support Joss' decision to do what he did in order to tell the story he wanted to. If I had my way, would Tara have died? Of course not. It was a beautiful relationship and I was sorry to see it end in such a violent, tragic manner. But the Jossverse is built on a bedrock of pain and suffering, and this is how it played out."




Just as an aside, I should also note that this is the first time I've seen anyone from Mutant Enemy stray from the official party line on the subject of Tara's death. All summer long, we were told that "the needs of the story" required Tara to die. They've claimed that there was no other way to tell the story they wanted to tell. But here not only does Mr. DeKnight say that another way existed, he also claims that he would have chosen a different option. In other words, Tara's death didn't serve the story nearly as much as it served the story-teller - Joss Whedon.



Pointing the finger



As you've been reading all these quotes we've been looking at, you may have noticed a trend. David Greenberg accuses the viewers of homophobia because they didn't understand what was being done with Tara's character. David Fury gets into trouble because the viewers who read his Q&A didn't understand the context of his jokes about rape. Marti Noxon is upset because the viewers didn't understand that Joss was in charge of the storylines in season six, and not her.



Spotted it yet?



It's as if the folks at Mutant Enemy, with the surprising but welcome exception of Steven DeKnight, have collectively decided to play "blame the viewer." If they and/or their shows are in trouble, it must be because they're misunderstood.



And where does this attitude come from? Look at the top of the Mutant Enemy totem pole, and you'll find the answer. For example, let's see what Joss Whedon told Wanda about the reaction to Tara's death:











"What was surprising was that there was a lot of hate toward us. It was an episode that was so clearly about male violence and male dominance, and suddenly I'm a gay basher. It's one thing when you piss off the people you want wiped off the planet. It's different when it's people you care about--your audience. But it's especially frustrating when they treat you in the same knee-jerk manner."




Or more recently, look at what he told TV Guide when asked about an upcoming international academic conference on the subject of Buffy:











"I'm psyched because [last] season is the bastard child that everyone's mean to. We had a purpose. And for people to take it seriously and not just to say, 'That season was depressing and the villains were nerds,' makes me feel good."




When the person at the top has decided that the last season's problems were the result of viewers being "mean" and not taking the show seriously, it's not too great a stretch to imagine the subordinates following suit. But while all this viewer-blaming might relieve the bruising of a few egos, does it really do any good for the show?



The cold, hard numbers



One member of the Mutant Enemy staff I haven't mentioned yet is Jane Espenson. She was at the Bronze Beta along with Drew Greenberg, gleefully cheering him on as he told the viewers how homophobic they were. When her turn came to accuse the audience of not understanding something, she chose the subject of ratings. Here's what she said:











"I'm sitting 0 feet from where Buffy is written. We are under the impression that our ratings are just fine! We are a show that attracts advertisers in search of a very specific demo -- not just age but lifestyle, income level, etc. These advertisers seem very happy."




Apparently, wherever Ms. Espenson is sitting doesn't give her much access to the media. If I quoted every article that's been written lately about the poor ratings of Mutant Enemy shows, I could probably double the length of this essay. I'll spare you all that extra reading, though, and offer just a few samples:











































"On UPN, Buffy began its seventh season to just under 5 million viewers, far less than last season's premiere which drew about 7.6 million."
-- New York Post, September 27 2002
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Sarah Michelle Gellar's witty, demon-bashing odyssey has sprung a ratings leak at the start of its seventh season. Rival WB's fresher Gilmore Girls is easily winning the time period."
-- Detroit Free Press, October 8 2002
"Two weeks into the new TV season, Buffy the Vampire Slayer network UPN's getting hammered in the ratings, meaning it will be forced to give away free commercial time to satisfy its advertisers, media buyers said.



"With its ratings down 30% in its key demographic of 18 to 34 year olds, Viacom-owned UPN 'is hurting the most' of all the six broadcast networks, said Michael Drexler, chief executive of media buying firm Optimedia International.



"Among the downers: returning programs Buffy and Star Trek: Enterprise, as well as newcomer Haunted.



"'Their target audience is getting clobbered,' Drexler said."
-- New York Daily News, October 9 2002




Perhaps this last article explains why Ms. Espenson thinks the advertisers are happy. I know I'd be happy if my business was getting commercial airtime for free.



Nor is Buffy the only Mutant Enemy series having ratings trouble. Firefly is having even more problems:

















This Friday Fox series was eagerly anticipated, as it came from Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator Joss Whedon. More mystifying and unintentionally comic than cosmic, it has turned into a sci-fi dud. It ranks in the Nielsen 90s and, worse, often trails the show that follows it, John Doe, by a couple million viewers. That means Fox viewers are skipping the 8 p. m. hour and then watching at 9 p.m. -- the biggest vote of no confidence there is."
-- San Francisco Chronicle, October 14 2002




Mutant Enemy might be able to spin the poor ratings for a bunch of viewers who "don't understand," but network executives won't be fooled when they have plenty of cold, hard numbers sitting in front of them. The new season is less than a month old, but Firefly is already on almost everyone's list of shows about to be cancelled, and Buffy is starting to feel the heat from unhappy members of the UPN brass. Only Angel seems fairly secure - for the moment. If Joss decides to take Angel on a journey to the dark side like he did with Buffy last season, he'll start to lose a large portion of the viewers who tune in for its lead-in show, the shamelessly goofy but still successful Charmed. If that happens, it won't take long for Angel to get into trouble as well.



I've already seen posts online from people trying to make sense of the ratings mess. The most common excuses I've seen being made attempt to place blame on the networks. Firefly's troubles are because FOX rejected the original pilot, or because they didn't promote the show well enough. Likewise, Buffy's troubles are the result of UPN not giving the show the same kind of promotional kick they gave it last year.



This kind of scapegoating provides a great deal of fodder for post-cancellation bitterness parties, but it doesn't do much else. It certainly doesn't win over the hearts and minds of the network executives in whose hands the fates of these shows rest. Besides, at least in the case of Buffy it's not even true. UPN tried to turn the season premiere night into a promotional event, having James Marsters "host" the evening and throwing in a special performance by the Goo Goo Dolls. None of the other networks went to such lengths that night, and yet all of them scored better ratings than Buffy - so is UPN really to blame?



In television, the most powerful influence on viewer size is word of mouth. Word of mouth, and not promos by the WB, was what made Buffy a success to begin with. People watched the show and liked it, and they told other people to watch and those other people liked it. And while UPN did do a large media blitz at the beginning of last season, that was largely to tell viewers where they could find the show on the dial. Remember what the billboards looked like? A pair of eyes with the words "Buffy lives... on UPN." The pitch assumed that you already knew who Buffy was and why there was a question of whether or not she was alive. You had to have heard about the show from somewhere else in order to understand what the billboard meant.



The problem both Buffy and Firefly have had is that the word of mouth on them so far has been mostly bad. Firefly started with bad buzz because the original pilot was rejected and there were several critics saying the original pilot deserved to be rejected. For a little while after the series premiered, there was some word of mouth along the lines of "it wasn't so bad," but that's not a very compelling argument. Now I think the show has simply dropped off most people's radar.



Look at Buffy and you'll see similar trouble. The buzz from the sixth season has been almost universally bad. The musical happened almost a year ago now, and there's really been nothing more to say that's good. Spike getting a soul? The fans can't even agree on whether that's a good thing, so how can new viewers connect to it? Dark Magic Willow? That lasted all of three episodes, two of which were shown on the same night - hardly enough to get people talking. This season being "back to the beginning?" That lasted exactly one episode, and then it was back to sixth season business as usual. The recent website gimmick for the Cassie character from the episode "Help?" Cassie was a one-shot character - if you didn't see "Help," you have no idea who she even is.



What's the answer? What will it take to generate better word of mouth and prompt people to say good things about Buffy again? I can tell you one thing that won't work, and that's complaint after complaint from the people at Mutant Enemy about how misunderstood they are. When you call people homophobes, or tell them they're being mean, or that they don't understand you, or you make fun of them, those people aren't likely to go out among their friends and sing your praises. Just the opposite, in fact.



In my past essays, I've tried to promote what I called "a better way of doing business," a method of running a TV show in which the people who watch the show are seen as being in a relationship with the people who make the show. Another way of phrasing that is to say that it's a method where the people making the show have a sense of humility instead of overbearing pride. It's pride that makes producers think they know how to give their viewers "what they need." It's pride that makes writers lash out at viewers who dare to criticize them. And it's overbearing pride that will eventually alienate the audience and send them looking for something else to watch.



Practicing humility means listening to what the viewers tell you instead of explaining to them why they're wrong. It means being sensitive to their true wants and needs instead of assuming they need what you think they do. And practicing humility means admitting when you made a mistake and apologizing for it. You'll notice that Steven DeKnight is the only person from Mutant Enemy I've spoken highly of in this essay, and that's after I spent the previous four essays criticizing him. What made the difference? He apologized. He admitted he'd done something wrong. He practiced humility.



It's not too late for Mutant Enemy - but the ticking of the clock is getting progressively louder. Gimmicks, quirky promotions and name-calling aren't going to put the viewers back in front of their televisions. I must admit, though, that at this late hour a good dose of humility might not be enough, either - but it certainly has a better chance.







Robert A. Black is learning a few things about humility himself, as he continues to seek publishers for the books he's written over the past year.








Comments, anyone?

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

BBOvenGuy
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby emma peel » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:56 am

Brilliant, Bob. :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

I think I love you!

Janice

emma peel
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby karenk » Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:13 am

Another fantastic article, Bob. I thought you've chosen some good, strong quotes. Hopefully this won't get ignored by some of the other boards...

karenk
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby gspiggott » Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:52 am

Humility comes out of humiliation according to St. Theresa ,and it might be the only way ME learns. Another great essay and I think you should keep writing all season long to see how the ideas you've raised play out. Perhaps at the end of the season you can send them all to ME because they'll have lots of free time.No Thomas Merton?

gspiggott
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby Jimmi Magnus » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:34 am

You certainly know how to write.

Great article.



What I liked the most was the quote from S. DeKnight:

"If I had my way, would Tara have died?"



The phrasing of "my way" implies that they actually had discussions about this at ME, and that (at least) someone at ME tried to find an alternative to "Seeing Red".





Edited to add:

I just read the David Fury Q&A at his site. What do you guys think about this quote (about Amber in the credits of SR):



"The idea that it was an "f*** you" to Amber is insane. We loved her, and Tara."



Why would they stop loving Amber just because she isn't coming to work at the same studio they are, every day?

Edited by: Jimmi Magnus at: 10/21/02 7:53:56 am
Jimmi Magnus
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby sam7777 » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:15 am

Great essay! I like the way you tie the ratings to their posts on the boards and feuds with the fans. It has to be pointed out how counter productive this all is. When the essay is complete, you should post it in the Cliche FAQ on the Kitten board and send it to Amy at Zap2it.com & Slayer news. It's a shame that slayage.com won't print the link. However, slayage.com and slayer news are less relevant these days as the organ of a dying show.



Editted to add: Bob you write better at 1am than most folks in the cold light of day. Thanks for your strong voice!


I see dead lesbian cliches.

Edited by: sam7777  at: 10/21/02 10:58:02 am
sam7777
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:52 am

I'm not going to write off slayage just yet. This isn't an essay about the death of Tara. It's an essay about the behavior of Mutant Enemy personnel. Slayage might ignore it anyway, but it's worth a shot. Plus we can still post links and copies around the net ourselves.



I want to rework the ending, which (to me, anyway) looks too much like it was written at 1:00AM (which it was :shy ). After that it should be ready to go.



And one of these days I'll get to do my Joss Whedon/Thomas Merton piece. I decided it's just not time yet. :

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

BBOvenGuy
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby ninjitsugrrl » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:37 pm

Wonderful essay! You do a good job of replying to these quotes.

"I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building." - Lucy in "Peanuts" by Charles Schultz


My Homepage

ninjitsugrrl
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby helpful information perha » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:19 pm

well done Bob



my only suggestions would be:

1) since this covers a large number of issues perhaps tieing it together via "organization" - rearrange the order to start at the top of the food chain and work down...ie start with Joss then marti then the subordinates



2) RE: tara as a character vs a lesbian - the point needs to be made that ME established tara and her relationship as "lesbian" ! Its one of her characteristics and they pushed it as a plot point



NOTE I tried to make this point in my comments previously:



RE: Mr. Greenberg’s comments on the Bronzebeta, regarding Tara, Willow & Tara and Mutant Enemy’s use of the lesbian cliché.







Let’s review







Tara







Tara was presented by Mutant Enemy as "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN, who pursued a LESBIAN relationship with Willow - and - said relationship was handled as "different" from all other relationships on Buffy as was the PR for the characters and their relationship.







Scoobie Relationships





First kiss



Every fan can point to the “first kiss” every scoobie has had with a significant other - with one exception, Willow and Tara.



Unlike every other scoobies first kiss with a significant other, Mutant Enemy did NOT put Willows first kiss with Tara on screen - we still don't know when it was !







Why - because Willow's significant other of choice was "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-



sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN.







Mr. Whedon never had to get permission from the network to show a kiss between any scoobie and their significant other – with one exception, Willow and Tara. Mr. Whedon had to get permission from the network, to show Willow comforted by a kiss from her significant other, on screen in The Body.



Why - because Willow's significant other of choice was "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN.





First sex



Every fan saw on screen, the first sex every scoobie had with a significant other - with one exception, Willow and Tara.



Unlike every other scoobie's first sex with a significant other Mutant Enemy did NOT put Willows first sex with Tara on screen - we still don't know when it was.



Why - because Willows significant other of choice was "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN.



Character interactions – whose dating who





Initially, Buffy and Willow talked about their dating experiences. That is until season 4, when Willow hid her relationship with Tara from Buffy and the other Scoobies. No more living through each others "vicarious smoochies."



Why - because Willows significant other was "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN.



Long Term On-going Relationships





Every on going relationship a scoobie has had with a significant other has included in your face kissing and sex - on screen and often.



Every scoobie relationship that is, with one exception, Willows relationship with Tara.



Their relationship was cloaked in metaphor and took place off screen most of time.



Why - because Willow’s significant other was "a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet" LESBIAN.



The ONLY on screen first Mutant Enemy chose to show for Willow and Tara was their FIGHT!



Mutant Enemy gladly accepted the PR the show got from presenting the first long term lesbian relationship in prime time broadcast TV.





The actress's playing Willow and Tara were on the cover of gay magazines and Mr. Whedon and they were given numerous interviews in the gay and mainstream press - because the show was portraying two "young women who were vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet" in a LESBIAN relationship.





Mutant Enemy put a young woman who was vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet sexual minority on screen.



They made the characters minority status an element of the storyline choices and publicity.



The audience saw/identified Willow and Tara as "young women who were vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet," LESBIANS.







It is tremendously disingenuous to turn around now and say no no the lesbian relationship Mutant Enemy



drew out on screen for two and half years is to be ignored just as the relationship is culminated - via “two "young women who were vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet" Lesbians used to play out the tired "clichéd ending" to a lesbian relationship - one dead right after sex and the other insane evil no more than 60 seconds later!







Mr Greenberg’s specious argument to obfuscate what REALLY was presented on screen is offensive to the extreme. Mutant Enemy killed/turned evil the two women in a carefully crafted lesbian relationship, right after the first episode in a three year relationship that prominently displayed them as having on screen, naked sex. That is the lesbian cliché, and Mr. Greenberg’s attempt to vilify those who saw exactly what was presented for what it was - "young women who were vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet" lesbians - being made fodder for a producers clichéd vision - is a pathetic attempt to apply the "blame the victim" strategy to exonerate his/ME's culpability here. Mutant Enemy once again sent the message - that lesbians - even "young, vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet" lesbians have NO CHANCE AT HAPPYNESS BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT - THEY HAVE SEX AND THEN END UP DEAD/CRAZY EVIL IN THE END.



I for one wanted to believe that ME's use of the cliché was simply a thoughtless misstep as opposed to a calculated act - but - Mr. Greenberg’s comment: "We wanted you to love her so that when we took her away, the audience would feel her absence as something painful," can leave no doubt that this storyline was a conscious and willful attempt to hurt all those who would dare to care for the "young, vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on their own two feet" lesbians.



Mr. Greenberg has made it clear that Tara was, from the get go, mere fodder for a well laid plan to hurt any and all viewers who would come to care for her and her relationship with Willow. No twisted troll logic from anyone at Mutant Enemy can hide or change that.



Besides the “Celluloid Closet,” there are now at least two books cataloging gays/lesbians and use of the cliché on the little screen - The Prime Time Closet: A History of Lesbians and Gays on TV By Stephen Tropiano and Alternate Channels by Steven Capsuto. I dare say ME has no doubt added a chapter to each for their next edition



helpful information perha
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby VampNo12 » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:22 pm

Eloquent essay Bob! It was well thought out, perfect quote selection, and the way you tied everything to the ratings slippage was wonderful. Bravo :clap !

VampNo12
 


Great essay!

Postby kpmuse » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:23 pm

Great stuff Bob! Just the right amount of everything!



The only thing is that I got the impression toward the end that if Joss & the folks at ME say I'm sorry then all will be well again.



I will only speak for myself to say that this is only a start. I want to know that they are sincere, and really understand the consequences of their storyline. I want to see that understanding reflected in their future work, future public speaking endeavors, etc. Respect or nothing.



Can they fix the show? Dunno. The spoilers don't look good for Willow. If I heard Tara was coming back, alive, healthy, human and in Willow's arms, & that they are sending NotWillow packing for good, maybe I'd watch. Maybe not. It depends on the story, the apology and understanding.



The only thing that will relieve the pain and hurt from the mocking and the cliched, violent ending for me is time and for the ME folks to never repeat this sad saga again.



As far as their attempt at making Tara just an "individual," it feels to me like they are trying to make an open & proud lesbian invisible. They dishonor Tara by doing so. It's almost like Tara's back in the closet at ME. This added to the insulting insinuation that I am a homophobe because I agree with the cliche, just astounds me. Drew needs to explain this further and maybe think about taking his foot out of his mouth.



Thanks again Bob!







Tara or nothing.

Tara & Willow Love Forever

kpmuse
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby tyche » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:31 pm

Excellent essay, Bob: can I suggest that you post it on boards as a follow-up (perhaps you could call it a fan perspective or something like that) to the New York Times article on TV shows and the internet.

And maybe you should point out the fact that Fred Phelps came and demonstrated outside your church obviously means that you're a well-known homophobe. ;)


Willow worries that the gang won't like her anymore. Maybe she could try to rape one of them, leave a fiance at the altar, and tie up her friends so a demon could kill them. Then she'd fit right in.
- My fiance's review of Beneath You.

tyche
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby Ben Varkentine » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:39 pm

Once a show "jumps the shark," how often does it jump back?





Ben Varkentine

"I could go on but what's the use
You can't fight them with songs
But think of this as just
another tiny blow against the Empire

Another blow against the Evil Empire."-Joe Jackson

Ben Varkentine
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:49 pm

Quote:
The only thing is that I got the impression toward the end that if Joss & the folks at ME say I'm sorry then all will be well again.




Yeah, that was the part I wrote at 1:00am and now want to go back and fix. :blush



And tyche, that's a good point. I should mention Fred Phelps, too. :grin

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

BBOvenGuy
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby kyraroc » Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:50 pm

I like the rewrite. It's much tighter and more focused than the first draft.



My only (minor) quibble is that I don't think Mr. Greenberg's comments apply particularly well even to the *old* "lesbian cliche", but that's part of my own personal hobbyhorse.



--- KR

Lost in Ecstacy

kyraroc
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby Willowlicious » Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:55 pm

Heh. I was going to say that too, Kyraroc. I don't think Greenberg's definition of the lesbian cliche is an accurate reading for any time period. I think saying that only lesbian depictions of the last 10 years or so defy his extremely limited and self-serving definition gives his view more credence than it deserves.



Other than that, I really like it. :)



Amy

--------

"And nobody wants to hear this tale. The plot is cliched and the jokes are stale. And baby we've all heard it all before." Invisible Ink by Aimee Mann




Willowlicious
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby Verdant » Mon Oct 21, 2002 6:48 pm

That was excellent!! Congrats on making very succinct points without resorting to vitriol and name calling. ME will hang themselves and you have just layed out the rope for all of us to look at.



Thanks.

____________________

Maybe you wanna put some ice on it.

Verdant
 


Re: Great essay!

Postby justastraightdog » Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:31 pm

Thanks, Bob - again.



And I hope you don't mind that I add some random thoughts I had during the last week here in your thread.



About the cliché:



A cliché (as I understand the term) doesn't ask for intentions - it's just there or not. Especially the dead/evil/mad/unhappy lesbian cliché is first and foremost a matter of statistics. It's just the ratio between happy lesbian characters/relationsships and dead/evil/etc. ones in comparisson to the same ratio for heterosexual characters/relationsships. Nobody can deny that this cliché exists - and with that, nobody can deny that it was shown on Buffy ( all of it, with Tara dead and Willow evil/mad and now unhappy).



The second question is about the consequences of a cliché. The dead/evil lesbian cliché has undergone a change during the years. First it was there to "give the lesbians what they deserve for their unnatural, blasphemic lifestyle", gratifying the agressive part of the openly homophobic society. Now it's more and more used to generate pity for "the poor girl(s)". But the society still is homophobic. It's still considered unnatural and blasphemic. Only it's no longer en vogue to say so. They still get what they deserve, but we are no longer happy about it - we feel pity for them. We are still lightyears away from acceptance - and with every single dead lesbian on screen - especially if we loved her - we are only more and more confirmed that it's an unhealthy and unhappy "lifestyle".



That said it becomes very obvious that Joss' Tara storyline, the way Greenberg told us, wasn't against the clichè, it was the apotheosis of the clichè, making Tara and all those who identified with her nothing more than pitiable creatures, even if they are young woman who are vibrant, alive, self-sufficient, funny, sexy, compassionate, strong and learning to stand on her own two feet. No matter what the intentions have been - these are the consequences.





About lesbian or individual:



In an ideal world, Gay Pride would be unnecessary. Nobody should be proud or ashamed about the way s/he was born. But this isn't an ideal world. We, the heterosexual and still homophobic majority force homosexuals to define themselves as lesbians or gays and not just as individuals. It's nothing desirable, but we have to respect it unless there is a 100% acceptance and 100% equal rights. If it's time for a change, they will tell us. Anything else means to keep them in tutelage.





About the ratings:



A little scenery: Imagine the sixth season of Buffy would have had a different - up-lifting - ending. Imagine the writers and producers would have listened (and continue to listen) to their fans.



First consequence: Ratings for season seven would be up by at least .5 national rating points.



Second consequence: The fans would have been happy and thankful - no question that they had given Firefly a try.



Third consequence: There are some connections between the Buffy fandom (or a particular part of it) and the DA fandom. The DA fans are the people Firefly need - these are the ones who stay at home to watch scifi at Fri, 8pm. You have to do everything possible to win them - or the show is doomed from the very beginning. Having some of your own fans over there, who can tell you what's needed is a good start. Imagine some ME stuff showing up at a DA board to tell that they are as upset as the fans that the show has been cancelled. That they never wanted to be the replacement. That ME will do everything they can to bring the show back - maybe on Tuesday nights at UPN, right after Buffy (no matter how unlikely that would have been). And everything they say will be backed up by loyal and trustworthy fans. Imagine the ratings for Firefly... Maybe they even could have get enough time to make it a enjoyable show.



We all know what really happened. And that it happened is something I just don't understand. Don't they like their jobs? Don't they need the money? Do they have serious death wishes? Was it very difficult to be seen? No, according to jumptheshark it was very obvious - the viewers knew what was going to happen.



Speaking of Joss Whedon: Joss, the author should have talked to Joss, the producer. If the author wants to tell depressing stories like seeing his female heroine getting raped, the producer should have told him WAIT! at least until Firefly is standing on its own feet. Alienating your most loyal fans the very moment you need them more than ever is - as I said, I really don't know what it is. At least it should earn those who have been responsible one way tickets to leave Hollywood.



_________________________________
My play was a complete success. The audience was a failure  (Ashley Brilliant)
Ich habe heute ein paar Blumen für dich nicht gepflückt, um dir ihr - Leben mitzubringen.  (Christian Morgenstern)

justastraightdog
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby the kat whisperer » Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:07 pm

Just wanted to say, great essay, Bob! Loved it. :clap



A couple of minor points though, in the first paragraph of the Pointing the finger section, you've called Drew, David Greenberg. And I agree with others about the ending, it seems to be saying that a simple apology will be enough.



Lastly, a stupid question, what's "pretzel-logic"? I've never heard that term before. :blush



Anyhoo, thanks again for the essay,



kw

Xena: "Always looking out for me, huh?"
Gabrielle: "Always."

the kat whisperer
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby SJ » Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:46 am

Great essay Bob!

SJ
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby BBOvenGuy » Wed Oct 23, 2002 5:19 pm

"Pretzel-logic" - a seemingly logical argument that twists a point around so that it becomes the opposite of what it really means. A good example is trying to claim that people protesting the death of Tara are homophobic.



I'm working on the final version of the essay now. I was planning to post it on the main board, with the intent that it would eventually go into the cliché thread with the other four. If that's not what I should be doing, I hope a moderator will let me know. :shy

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

BBOvenGuy
 


Re: New Essay - #5 for those who are counting...

Postby helpful information perha » Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:21 am

since several writers will be at the succubus club perhaps we should post some of these issues bob raises to them as questions?

helpful information perha
 


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