Willow ...scene from 4.. - Spoilers

[Annecy]

Personally, I'm shocked that the camera pans to Tara's name and dates on the stone. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up on the cutting-room floor.



And I will be joining all the drinkers -- not only because I'm sure Aly will tear my heart out, but to keep me from putting a brick through the TV at Xander's "Yellow Crayon Part 2" speech. Give me a f***in' break. Are we going to have to put up with WiseandCaring!Xander this entire season, after ObliviousD***head!Xander from last season? It's not just the job and the nice car and the suit that came out of nowhere. (Note: I used to like Xander, but ME has made him so unlikable lately!)



BtVS had ONE character that could make those wise and perceptive comments believably and sympathetically, and they killed her. TARA should be the one helping Willow deal with regaining her magical equilibrium. If I were Willow, I'd be thinking, "Yeah, Xander, and what do YOU know about it? You've got SUCH a good track record with magic, what with the hyena thing, and the love spell, and the singing demon." There's a tiny undercurrent of that in Willow's comment about being less worried about nails and more worried about pounding in her friends' heads, but it isn't enough.



Annecy

Edited by: Annecy at: 9/23/02 8:52:56 pm

[xita]

not watching thank god

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Tara and Willow

Accept NO subsitutes

[babs]

I'll see your drink and raise you a few shooters, perhaps a fifth.

[VampNo12]

God a stiff drink sounds great right now, or I could just happily live in denial reading fic on the Pens board. Thanks drlloyd (and your source) for these scenes. And I concur with Annecy about the "Yellow Crayon Part 2 Speech" ! Why in god's name is Xander all of the sudden the wise one, helping Willow with his stupid "hammering" analogies, gag me now!



I am sure Aly will be wonderful acting this out, but just reading her part at the grave, as well as her thinking about Tara (looking out the window) makes me want to . I am also surprised ME/Joss would actually have Tara's name engraved on the tombstone, I figured with him wanting to "erase" Tara at every chance he gets, we just see an over-head shot of the grave from above (how kind of him, I am being sarcastic). I am just so drained, after reading this!



Edited to add I also want to gag over Xander's thrill at the notion that Willow wrote love poems long ago (ie Xander thinking she wrote the poems about him). Not only is Xander the "wise one", but now I can see him being portrayed as a love magnet" !

Edited by: VampNo12  at: 9/23/02 7:59:35 pm

[Warduke]

Thanks Brad, and I too will be joining you in the drinking.

_________________________


Mozilla : There's a new browser on the block.

Edited by: xita  at: 9/23/02 10:52:38 pm

[Wiccagrrl313]

Quote:

---

not watching thank god

---

Ditto. And I have to say, I have yet to hear one single spoiler that has been even close to luring me back to the show.



Actually, I take that back. The news that Faith might be coming back for the end of the season on Angel and Buffy made me curious. But then I remembered, hey, this is ME, and I'm sure they'll handle it every bit as badly as everything else they've done lately...

Tracy

******************


VILLOV

I troost yuu. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!

*******************

Tara. Accept No Substitutes.

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Annecy:

I'm shocked that the camera pans to Tara's name and dates on the stone. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up on the cutting-room floor.

---

Unless they're getting ready for the shape-shifting demon to show up in Tara's form to trick and/or torture Willow. Then they would have to set up Willow missing her.



I so hope Amber told Joss to shove it.

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 9/23/02 11:18:02 pm

[circular reference]

You know, I have to say that after watching S4E22 ("Restless") tonight, and seeing just HOW VITAL Tara was to everyone in that ep... it just doesn't seem fair, even more than ever that they should treat her like this. I mean, when did Oz or Riley ever come into an episode like that to guide the others (now, remember, I haven't seen them all yet) so seriously... and with such emphasis and force and power?? I was in awe. It was a great episode to idicate exactly how important Tara was to the Scoobies and to the show in general. This ending... by the gravesite being discussed here... man... I will bawl... and i'll bet it's right at the end of the ep, right? UGH. Thanks for the spoiler... at least I'll know to be ready.



After reading drlloyd's thorough exploration of W in S7E4 i have to add:



Wow. That is actually beautiful. I still miss Tara... but I am glad they actually show her name, etc.... and that they point out that W is not "over it all" by showing her at this window later... man, how very very tragic. I miss tara so much. Seeing her in the S4's and 5's (which are just starting for me in re-runs), having already finished S2, S3, and S6... it breaks my heart. I don't know if I can ever handle W with anyone else. And these rumors about Seth returning... UGH. Puh-leeze. Put me out of my misery if it's true,

--CR
"Hold the fire, I'm coming in."

Edited by: circular reference  at: 9/23/02 11:58:06 pm

[BytrSuite]

Yes, I see I will have good company in my drinking.



Shit.

————––
"There's a whole lot of singing that's never gonna be heard

Disappearing everyday without so much as a word somehow"

[UnrealisticExpectations]

I suddenly remember why it is I have a bottle of Bacardi stashed. Seriously though, I hate that reading that made me cry. I thought I was immune to this stuff. Turns out I'm not.

Hope you guys are fairing better.

[BytrSuite]

I really wish I was immune to this stuff. But I'm not.

Reading that hurt. A lot. I'm sure it hurt all of us who read it.



As much as I hate them, I still care how they torture Willow.

It all just sucks.

————––
"There's a whole lot of singing that's never gonna be heard

Disappearing everyday without so much as a word somehow"

[IsayAmberBensonsgorgeous]

thanks drlloyd

somebody just knock me out with a bottle if one of you can spare one. screw you for making me cry!

"Es ist fuer einen Menschen unertraeglich, ertragen zu werden." (Jean Cocteau)
"Ain't never gonna love you any better babe - And they'll never gonna love you right" (Kozmic Blues - Janis Joplin)

[Tulipp]

I wish I didn't feel that the reference to Doogie Howser fanfic was a way to minimize the kind of emotion and investment that fans have.



I suppose that this psychic girl and her memories are supposed to be some kind of symbol of Tara or something, but I remain shocked and shocked-er that no one is talking to Willow about Tara. Rip my heart out and stomp it to little tiny pieces.

***************

"I didn't think Willow was that kind of girl."
--Riley in "New Moon Rising"

[tommo]

I know, Juli. It's hard not to read into the Doogie Hoswer line right now. Like they're starting from the get go about making it clear how sad we all are, and how pathetically involved we are in this show.



Thankfully, or perhaps, fortunately, I'm saved from watching this. Perhaps that's some kind of divine intervention.

----------
"Squish. Squish. Squish."

[helpful information perha]

noxon's latest to sci fi wire today is that amber will be back but not tara

if they think that will get me back

screw them!



it was the soulmates aspect I cared about



amber back as another character doesn't cut it, its rather an insult

[Kendahl897]

I think at this point that anything that ME says about how Amber will be back should be taken with a grain of salt..Don't forget, these are the same people who made it seem in interviews that Tara would be revealed to be a demon in FAMILY and these are also the same people who told us for 2 years that Tara wouldn't die..If they think that people won't look at Amber and see Tara, then they must have started mixing their ectasy and viagra together

[Sheridan]

This is the problem, hate Joss, hate ME, hate what the show has become, but I still care about the characters, with the exception of 'Hammer boy' and the attempted rapist. I want to know what happens to them, I want to Know that Willow will get better, Buffy will be happy, and Dawn will grow up. To make matters worse I don't drink!

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[stereo33]

Oh god - that scene was too much, I can't watch that!!!



Thank god I'm in the UK and can't get Season 7 until 2003, (this is so different to how I was feeling this time last year when I was totally unspoilt and looking forward to Season 6).



I wanted to keep watching for Willow, but don't think I can manage that unless they perform a miracle and do something credible and worthwhile with W and Tara.



I am so glad I can check out what's happening here, I was planning on taping eps so I could watch if there was any "good" news. I wouldn't even want to waste my video tape recording what I've heard so far.

[sam7777]

Thanks Drloyd11!



The script says that Willow is thinking of Tara but I'm betting they just show her depressed by the window and don't indicate why. I just can't find it touching at all. They wait till the 4th episode and Tara doesn't even get her name mentioned? The scene at the graveyard is all about Willow/Xander with Tara throw in as an afterthought.



I won't be watching either. I've seen nothing in the spoilers to induce me to watch season severed.

I see dead lesbian cliches.

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/24/02 3:05:14 pm

[helpful information perha]

sheridan, whenever I feel the pangs of W/T withdrawal/caring for the characters I do the following - I slap myself upside the head with a little tough love/the reality of what the shows canon is now -



willow is a 2 time torturer and killer and you don't get better from that,



dawn is a ball of green energy under a magic spell,



and buffy who has been dead 3 times over is really a nut job in a padded cell dreaming all this anyway.



as for the rest of the characters, well who cares



I repeat the above 3X and then go read the wildfeed to remind myself Tara's been erased and they just don't give a flying fig about my fav character



works for me

[Sheridan]

Sadly HIP I'm still madly in l;ove with Willow and I jsut can't think badly of her.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[helpful information perha]

I adore her too Sheridan

but that doesn't change what she has done or the fact that she should take responsibility for her actions and like faith turn herself in



taking a life "changes everything"



that was the basis of the shows canon for how many seasons?



to have willow out and about without paying her debt to society, well it badly undermines the shows previous canon



not to mention sending a horrific message



you get pissed off, liquered up and go off and kill someone

you can't use the ETOH made me do it as an excuse and walk



willow needs to take responsibility

[Sheridan]

Well HIP I think Willow could put up a pretty good temporary insanity defence, and really I found what happened in S6 so far removed from any credible storyline that I can't really bring myself to hold Willow responsible for it, and from what I've read and seen of S7 I still can't believe it.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Urn of Osiris]

Not to justify the fillet and fry of Warren. But he did put an axe in her back.

Who does she turn herself in to? How does she explain the circumstances of his death?



She is going to punish herself in S7.



Back to the scene at the cemetary. Looking at that grave and touching the tombstone. I see paid in full.

Urn of Osiris
_________________**

"Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses."
— George Washington Carver
Voice your opinion about Tara http://www.petitiononline.com/Tara/petition.html

[sam7777]

Tara's death was the trigger to Willow's rampage not the punishment for it. I just don't see Tara's death as karma for Willow. I agree with HIP that Willow's feeling sorry isn't really enough to make up for what she did last season as DMW. This is one of the reasons that I think DMW was so out of character for Willow. She acts high for 2 minutes but most of the time seems quite rational and seems to know what she is doing. Willow was my favorite character but she died for me with Tara in "Seeing Red".

I see dead lesbian cliches.

[tkheaven]

Thanx, HIP...reading this at work..my eyes started to tear.....*sniffsniff* GOD this is AWFUL!...those BASTIDS!...GRRR

Tk's new and improved "GrrArgg"

-----------------------------
Tara was similarly riveted, her body on slow burn as Willow's lips parted and her mouth opened, the food slipping inside and being consumed. Never in her life had Tara ever wanted to be a chicken casserole so badly...Later that night..."It's good to be a chicken casserole," Tara murmured, before passing out. ~ Answering Darkness by Sassette

[DRUSILLA LOVER]

im so not impressed anymore....cant they at least have willow do a nice speech to tara.

[btvs sara82]

Thanks drlloyd11 and big thanks and huge to your source.



I'm in shock now. Willow cry. I cry too.

[Urn of Osiris]

Quote:

---

Tara's death was the trigger to Willow's rampage not the punishment for it. I just don't see Tara's death as karma for Willow.

---

The thing is it should'nt have been the trigger. Willow would never leave her like that. That's what breaks my heart. I could accept any measure of mourning if it had happened from the start. Her rage worked in TL because Tara was not alone. Willow would never leave her. She'd never walk away from her soulmate like that.



So there is nothing that will happen at that cemetary, no words, no visuals that will remove the tainted image of abandonment at the beginning of Villians. It's not believable.

Urn of Osiris
_________________**

"Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses."
— George Washington Carver
Voice your opinion about Tara http://www.petitiononline.com/Tara/petition.html

[DRUSILLA LOVER]

yup exactly....our willow would have never left tara alone like that.