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Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Post any poll, Willow and Tara, Alyson, Amber or OT polls.

Was it rape?

Yes
1
33%
No
1
33%
It's complicated
1
33%
I'm not touching that with a 10ft bargepole.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 3


Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Postby Dub » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:02 am

I've not seen it discussed here but I have seen many, many, oh so many discussions/absolutes masked as discussions about it. So I'm bringing the discussion to the place where people really do think about the characters/relationship in detail.

At the end of Under Your Spell in OMWF, Willow and Tara have sex. However Tara is unknowingly under a memory erasure spell, which brings into question her ability to consent. While Willow is not and is fully aware of Tara's altered memory however they are both under the magical influence of Sweet, which also brings into question their ability to consent.

This weeks question - Was the sex between Willow and Tara in OMWF, rape?

Yes - One/both didn't have the ability to consent
No - Both consenting
It's complicated - Could also be undecided
I'm not touching that with a 10ft bargepole - I acknowledge the discussion and why its needed but I'm not getting involved.

To be clear, this is about the characters of Willow and Tara in reference to their situation at the time of the song Under Your Spell in OMWF. This is not asking for your personal beliefs in a wider situation out of the context of the show in this specific moment. Your beliefs may influence your decision but the discussion is based and focused on Willow and Tara which does involve multiple magical influences.

Normally I'd ask for an explanation but with a loaded question like this, I think its fair if people want their opinion seen through the poll but not heard by extra explanation, which could draw them into depths they don't want.
There is also no time limit on this one as I don't think a time will come when this discussion wont be relevant.



It's complicated. I can see the argument for all sides.

Yes because Tara technically has something (memory erasure spell) in her system that was influencing her decisions. Sweet was bringing out secrets i don't think he would have the ability to influence peoples actions other than singing and dancing to combustion however we don't know if that involves the horizontal tango.

No because Tara was giving the eyes, Willow returned the eyes and went down south. they were both connected and while there wasn't verbal consent on Willows part, physically it seemed to be above board. but I'm not a body language expert, I don't know.

I'm not touching it with a 10ft bargepole - I wrote the question, I can't really do that.

I think all angles to this argument have validity. It was never stated in the show either way for confirmation and even the writers/actors could differ on interpretations of this. I lean towards more no, as I see the memory spell effecting only Tara's memories of Willows over use of magic, The whole bag burnt up in Tabula Rasa making me think that's why they lost all memories opposed to the ones Willow wanted Buffy and Tara to forget. Tara sniffed the lythes bramble at the start of OMWF that we are led to believe was the one used at the end of All The Way, it was barely singed. Sweet may make Tara sing but I think even without his influence and Willows spell, she would have all those feelings for Willow and say them.
So while her mind was pretty much fully intact, in this sense meaning she had free will, only some memories taken, I think she had very important information withheld from her in her ability to make a fully informed decision which is why I don't slam down the no card.
It's complicated. we don't know the extent of the spell or magical influence Sweet had and we don't get confirmation of how the characters felt afterwards as the next time we see them both is the following evening. For all we know it could have stopped. or Willow was purely sitting at the end of the bed pumping a scissor jack to 'levitate' Tara.

I don't have the qualifications or information needed to come down on a hard yes or no. So while I lean towards no, I'm still undecided and see that it's complicated.
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Re: Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Postby Rutkowski » Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:58 am

No, because neither of them could give consent as they were part of a song and as such under control of Sweet's powers.

They were no more in control of their actions than the townies that danced themselves to death. I mean, would Tara use magic as freely as she did in UYS (cosmetic sparkles, teleportation, levitation) at that time of their relationship (where 'superfluous' magic use was a big no-no for her) if she were in full control of her actions during the song?
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Re: Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Postby Dub » Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:39 pm

That's a solid point.

Never taken the sparkles, teleportation and levitation literally. Always seen it as musical add-age/visual metaphors.
Damn that means Tara was strong enough magically to teleport two people. Underused witch.
One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms
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Re: Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Postby Rutkowski » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:08 am

I think she had the potential to be that strong but at that moment her magic was enhanced by Sweet's powers for increased dramatic efficiency.
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Re: Trigger Warning - OMWF Dark Side

Postby Dub » Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:57 pm

Out of interest, What do you think the extent of Sweets powers are?

Personally for me I think he added the spark for things to come out in song and dance but he had no sway or control after that. He just likes to watch the chaos it causes. I don't think he has piped piper abilities to control movements otherwise he wouldn't need his henchmen to fetch people. They could conga to him like a train of linked up abandoned trolleys in a carpark rolling about on its own but somehow hitting the one car parked in there over night. How things play out through song and dance is tuned into who the person is, as music effects everyone differently. For me i don't see him have any power over cognitive abilities, he just somehow makes everyone express themselves through song and dance. He clearly has other demonic abilities but I don't see anything to suggest he can strongly influence/enhance/control someone's mind or body.

I still think you've got a valid point, I'm just intrigued in your perspective as discussions on this topic tend to focus on the memory spell rather than Sweets influence so its an interesting avenue to explore.
One Shots - Basement Grotto - Door 25 - "You're My Always" - "Do You Like Cats?"
You don't have to write to contribute to the board, feedback can be its own event - Dubs Festive Advent Challenge - Fic Club - Pens Write A Holiday Story
Existing at some point, maybe - The Justice for Tara series.
*Rides in on a tricycle* Wanna play a game? - Five Minutes of Artistic Integrity - Those Three Little Words - Sassy Synonyms - Aradia's Antonyms
Dub
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